Lambs +/-

And Monty not talking to the media tells you something too.  You can explain your rationale and kind of beg forgiveness by explaining that "heat of the moment" screw ups happen but that everything you're doing was to help the team win.  As much as Bostick screwed up, I never thought he was a bad/selfish teammate.  

Monty seemed to consciously decided "f**k the team, I'm gonna do me" and you really can't explain and/or beg for forgiveness on that.  You can't get up on the podium and say "I was taken out of the game earlier and was pissed, so decided next time I go in the game that I was going to ignore my coach and the team and do what's best for myself" without looking awful.  

I would deactivate him this week and see how he reacts.  If he gets it, takes ownership and earns back respect of the team, he stays.  If not and he pouts, etc., you think about moving on either by cutting him or keeping him as a healthy scratch.  

BrainDed posted:

 

- Gurely running unguarded for a long TD,   I believe it was Martinez with the missed assignment. 

I could be wrong but I think it was Whitehead on that one.  And gotta give credit where it's due, that was a great playcall.  McVay had the entire offense running left with only Gurley running right.  The kind of play that you wish we could see our team run.........

Just an aside, can you imagine Rodgers with McVay as playcaller?  60 TDs.  

I think you're right. I believe Whitehead was in the game for Brice at that point? 

McVay and Rodgers would be fun, Rodgers with Gurley and maybe even Cooks would be dynamite. 

At a minimum, deactivate Montgomery for at least one game and fine him the max you can for insubordination. Then it's a matter of how he deals with it: apologizes to the team today and is sincere, maybe another chance; says that everyone fumbles and I thought I saw a hole, blah, blah, blah, oops, then goodbye. How MM handles it could determine if he totally loses the locker room or not. I think he was on the verge before the bye, was okay but slipping in the first half by not stomping down on LA, and now... ?? It's on his shoulders to do something.

Grave Digger posted:

I think you're right. I believe Whitehead was in the game for Brice at that point? 

McVay and Rodgers would be fun, Rodgers with Gurley and maybe even Cooks would be dynamite. 

I think Whitehead & Brice were both in game with 6 DBs, odd man out was Josh Jones, did he get any defensive snaps? 

My take on the Monty situation..

I think you have to trade him.    Showing forgiveness to a player who directly disobeys orders to put himself over the team could cause a lot of players to lose respect.    This wasn't a mental error or a physical error, it was an intentional **** you to the coaches and thus to the team as well.   He has to go.

Personally, I feel bad for him.   He has been a team guy up until this point by changing positions and doing everything they have asked of him.   He just cracked at the wrong time and it led to a huge mistake that most likely cost his team the game.    I wish him success elsewhere as he seems like a good man. 

Kenny Clark continued his breakthrough Sunday against the Rams. Over his last 12 games dating back to December, the #Packers' 23-year-old defensive tackle now has 55 tackles, 8.5 sacks and two forced fumbles.

— Wes Hodkiewicz (@WesHod) October 29, 2018

Fukkin beast! I wasn't sold when Ted drafted him because 1) Datone Jones was a similar kind of "potential" prospect from the same school and 2) I was hoping to get a more proven entity (Reggie Ragland, Jarran Reed) rather than the KC who was an "upside" pick because of his h/w/s and age. Never been more happy to be dead wrong. 

PackerBackerDPM posted:

Feel bad for Scott bad game it happens see Mason. Let’s see how he responds. 

Now I’ve inched closer to the need a fresh face in the head coach/offensive side of the ball. Just don’t know who’s out there but it does seem to have worked for the defense. I think that side of the ball is very close to putting a full game effort together. 

If McVince gets fired, more than likely, Pettine goes as well.  Looking at a rebuild of the entire coaching staff, not sure that is the way to go.  I'd say McVince has one more year with Pettine, and make the decision after next year.  

That "holding" call on him was such BS.  In 35 years I don't think I've ever seen defensive holding called on a DL before.

BrainDed posted:

Personally, I feel bad for him.   He has been a team guy up until this point by changing positions and doing everything they have asked of him.   He just cracked at the wrong time and it led to a huge mistake that most likely cost his team the game.    I wish him success elsewhere as he seems like a good man. 

Part of me feels the same IRT his position change, but part of me also thinks MM did him a huge favor by finding a role for him. He likely wasn't going to stick at WR and possibly wouldn't have made the roster had he not made that change. 

Uh, maybe I missed this but this wasn't the first time during the game Monty defied McVince. 

According to Silver’s report, McCarthy docked Montgomery snaps after already once refusing to heed coaching instructions to stay in the end zone, after which Montgomery was reportedly furious. His eventual decision to take it out of the end zone with just over two minutes could have been viewed as an “I’ll show you moment,” or perhaps more generously as a “I can make a play, this is why I’ve been taking it out.”

That makes it even worse.  Twice.  I was unaware that's why he wasn't involved on the last drive.

DH13 posted:

That "holding" call on him was such BS.  In 35 years I don't think I've ever seen defensive holding called on a DL before.

For some reason I feel like I remember Grady Jackson getting called for that back in his heyday. The Bobs defense asked the 1 gappers to tie up OL rather than attack if I remember correctly. 

I've seen it called a bunch of times in recent years. D-lineman holds blocker so he can't get to the LBer. 

PackerRuss posted:

PackerBackerDPM posted:

Feel bad for Scott bad game it happens see Mason. Let’s see how he responds. 

Now I’ve inched closer to the need a fresh face in the head coach/offensive side of the ball. Just don’t know who’s out there but it does seem to have worked for the defense. I think that side of the ball is very close to putting a full game effort together. 

If McVince gets fired, more than likely, Pettine goes as well.  Looking at a rebuild of the entire coaching staff, not sure that is the way to go.  I'd say McVince has one more year with Pettine, and make the decision after next year.  

Unless his replacement is Pettine.

FLPACKER posted:

Grave Digger posted:

I think you're right. I believe Whitehead was in the game for Brice at that point? 

McVay and Rodgers would be fun, Rodgers with Gurley and maybe even Cooks would be dynamite. 

I think Whitehead & Brice were both in game with 6 DBs, odd man out was Josh Jones, did he get any defensive snaps? 

Just saw the snap counts, Jackson got in for 3 plays. Whitehall was in for every play with the exception of 3, Brice only sat for 12 snaps. 

Ubetcha posted:

PackerRuss posted:

PackerBackerDPM posted:

Feel bad for Scott bad game it happens see Mason. Let’s see how he responds. 

Now I’ve inched closer to the need a fresh face in the head coach/offensive side of the ball. Just don’t know who’s out there but it does seem to have worked for the defense. I think that side of the ball is very close to putting a full game effort together. 

If McVince gets fired, more than likely, Pettine goes as well.  Looking at a rebuild of the entire coaching staff, not sure that is the way to go.  I'd say McVince has one more year with Pettine, and make the decision after next year.  

Unless his replacement is Pettine.

That was my next thought, move Pettine to HC and handle the Def.  Then Gute/Pettine and AR discuss who will be the next OC.  

Personally, I don't have the hate for MM, that many on here do, I think he should have the chance to coach next year, with the change of coaching staff this past year.  

Henry posted:

Uh, maybe I missed this but this wasn't the first time during the game Monty defied McVince. 

According to Silver’s report, McCarthy docked Montgomery snaps after already once refusing to heed coaching instructions to stay in the end zone, after which Montgomery was reportedly furious. His eventual decision to take it out of the end zone with just over two minutes could have been viewed as an “I’ll show you moment,” or perhaps more generously as a “I can make a play, this is why I’ve been taking it out.”

That makes it even worse.  Twice.  I was unaware that's why he wasn't involved on the last drive.

I guess we’ll find out if Beev really gives a shit about accountability or if he will decide to show his ass, and more than likely lose the whole team, to placate a decidedly at best average tweener. 

Grave Digger posted:

I think you're right. I believe Whitehead was in the game for Brice at that point? 

McVay and Rodgers would be fun, Rodgers with Gurley and maybe even Cooks would be dynamite. 

I'd settle for Rodgers and Jones and a playcaller that doesn't give Jones 1 carry in the 2nd quarter after a 7 carry 45 yard 1st quarter. 

Mike doing Mike today at his presser. Essentially said Ty’s hurt feelings are his punishment. And then when Ty is ready to talk about it Mikes sure he’s going to admit he made a mistake. 

Could also be that Gute is doing everything to trade him so Mike can’t go trashing him in a presser. 

But right now this really sounds like business as usual for MM. 

Unless they are actually trying to work a trade deal for him, that response from McCarthy sounds more like something a preschool teacher would say about a little kid, than a football coach about a grown-ass man.

I see #88 having very little trade value. But the Raiders sound someone dumb enough to give up a 1st for Amari Cooper, so I guess anything is possible.

Best Ty story today is that he’s upset fellow players anonymously questioned his character following the game. He feels they should have come to him directly. 

Sounds like full circus at 1265 right now. 

I concur on little trade value, but I'd be thrilled with a fourth rounder.

Seattle might trade Brett Hundley for him.

Fedya posted:

Seattle might trade Brett Hundley for him.

No, they like where their QB room is right now...

PackerHawk posted:

Grave Digger posted:

I think you're right. I believe Whitehead was in the game for Brice at that point? 

McVay and Rodgers would be fun, Rodgers with Gurley and maybe even Cooks would be dynamite. 

I'd settle for Rodgers and Jones and a playcaller that doesn't give Jones 1 carry in the 2nd quarter after a 7 carry 45 yard 1st quarter. 

Because why would you want Aaron Rodgers to have the ball when you have Aaron Jones. Balance is for teams that don’t have Aaron Rodgers.

Grave Digger posted:

Agree Bong, would you feel the same if Aaron Rodgers pulled a similar stunt though? Or Mike Daniels? 

You mean if AR purposely threw an interception to show how pissed he was at McStupidface's chickennugget breath on a "take a knee" play to end the half?  

Or Daniels started to purposely jump offsides for 4 consecutive plays to prove Iowa "is" a top academic institution?  

I'll never forgive Gary Sheffield, so yeah, if guys purposely act selfishly against direct instructions from the coaches, I might have a hard time trusting those guys in the trenches next week.  

Well said.

But you’re saying that knowing their intentions. If Daniels just jumped offsides 5 times in a row you wouldn’t assume he’s trying to prove a point, just that he’s gotten carried away. He’s earned that benefit of the doubt. We don’t know Monty’s intention beyond rumor and anyonous sources. His intentions may have been to make a play and he just ended up making a bonehead play. That happens unfortunately. He may have been an insubordinate little twat that couldn’t handle adversity. All I’m saying is that if they do cut Monty, it’s not JUST because of this play and it shouldn’t be. If they cut him or trade him it’s because his body of work is unimpressive and this just reinforced for MM or Gute or both that he’s not in their plans. Players shouldn’t be cut because of one bad play.

"here is the specific thing I want you to do."

"Screw you, I'll do whatever I feel like."

Grave Digger posted:

is intentions may have been to make a play and he just ended up making a bonehead play. 

He did the opposite of what he coaches told him. It wasn't mental mistake or an error in the moment. He was given a job and he willfully and purposefully did his own thing.

Ty was on the local news tonight basically in full denial mode.  Claimed the reports of his insubordination weren’t totally accurate and couldn’t believe his teammates didn’t have his back.  Then went on to say he was mad but he worked his way through it.  

Here you have every opportunity to step up and say “I was wrong, I let my teammates down, and I cost my team the game.  I hope I can earn back their trust and do what it takes to help this team” 

Instead he digs a deeper hole and tries to rationalize his behavior.  

This team is a hot mess right now🤔

https://sports.yahoo.com/ty-mo...nally-235311673.html

Here's the print version of this liar's garbage.

Funny stuff on here tonight .... Belicheck says he is going to sit Josh Gordan for being late, but then puts him in on third play of the game ..... just think what the reaction would be if MM did that? 

I listened to the video of Ty giving his version and watched the replay of him fielding the kick. It looks like he starts out at about the goal line, just slightly over. When the ball comes he retreats  roughly 1 1/2 - 2 yards deep  to make the catch and then takes off immediately, no hesitation. He sounds like he's saying he was afraid the ball wasn't going to make it beyond the goal line when it was kicked. So is he saying he didn't know where he was when he set up to take the kick or maybe lost track of his position? I guess it's possible but it's not like he hasn't done this before and knowing the implications of taking out, wouldn't you take notice of where you are before bolting out? So he's covering his ass or MM and co. didn't really hammer home the message all that well prior to the kickoff. My guess is it's a little of both but they're both looking like a couple of turds right now. It'll take a while for this one to go away. Bad timing.

Ty's Kickoff Return

I'm no Ron Zook, but why wouldn't you have Monty line up deep in end zone? Letting it bounce doesn't have a bad benefit that I can see.

Unless it bounces back into the field of play?

Montgomery was told to take a knee if the kick was in the EZ.

He either decided not to, or didn't know where he was. Either way, I would not put him back there again.

Rams gave GB a gift by kicking that ball into the EZ. How they didn’t understand kicking it to the 10 took away the two minute warning is beyond stupidity. That’s a gift GB refused to accept  

If GB is looking to move Ty I get Mikes comments today. If Ty isn’t moved then everything is broken and Mike is totally cool losing games because sometimes players make mistakes they are coached not to make. 

But if he thinks his roster isn’t fully aware Ty went rouge and wasted 58 minutes of sweat and effort because he was pissed Mike turned him into a RB and then gave snaps to RB’s he isn’t even ****ing using then good luck with the rest of this season working out. 

Mike had a chance to get way out in front of all this today and once again he told us Don Capers is an outstanding defensive coach. 

I cant wait for Mike to be gone. 

Tramon says he knows for a fact that he wasn’t being selfish. Link

“I’ll tell you what: The people who said that, it’s unfortunate that they said that,” Williams said, via Tom Silverstein of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. “That’s the reason they are anonymous and not said their name. If they want to say it, put their name by it. That’s them. Whoever that is, it is what it is. But we’re going to have Ty’s back. I know for a fact he didn’t do it selfishly. It may look that way, but he didn’t do it selfishly. I’ve been playing for a long time, and I’ve been in worse situations than he has.”

Maybe Monty is being honest when he says he he made the decision to take it out because he felt he was too close to the goal line. I guess it comes down to who you think Monty is, a punk who is a shitty teammate or a guy who just made a bad choice. I remember the report about his early life being in foster care and how humble it made him, hard to see that guy as a diva that screws over his team. Maybe that’s all BS and he really is a turd. I’m more concerned that we seemingly have a locker room issue with some guy(s) calling out others anonymously. Tramon is a leader, I put more stock in his words than an anonymous source.

https://www.jsonline.com/story...2018/10/29/analysis-packers-have-many-reasons-move-ty-montgomery/1812775002/

At this point, it doesn't look like GB is going to make or even do much in the post-season anyway, so you might as well get rid of MM and put Pettine in the driver's seat if you want to go full nuclear. I know it's not the Packer way, but this season has devolved into a finger-pointing, back-stabbing, total wreck.

From all outward appearances, MM has now lost this team. He would have been better to say today that discipline for Montgomery would be handled internally. Then Monty could be cut, traded, benched, etc., and MM would have saved face. To say Monty's feelings would be his punishment is too soft, too New-Agey, and too much like MM has given up. He's probably already looking for a house in Cleveland...