I absolutely think the statement is a calculated shot at the front office. 

Rodgers knows the twilight of his career is soon upon him. The Packer front office has an obligation to a more aggressive approach. 

I think he's frustrated and is hinting at TT to go out and sign some free agent to fill gaps.   But I'm not sure how you do that and still stay under the cap or don't put the team in cap hell for years to come.   I'm guessing he sees how the Patriots are in the championship games almost every year and is using that as is measuring stick.

I think he finally took a public shot at Mike's coaching staff. Loyalty leads to complacency. Especially given Aaron's ability. 

A little of both. A shot at TT for more help/depth, especially at RB, and some players on D. A huge shot at the D coaches for not having players prepared and for not calling good games. 

Of course it's a public shot.   Good for him, the fact that he has to score 40 nearly every playoff game in order to advance is criminal.  

SanDiegoPackFan posted:

I think he's frustrated and is hinting at TT to go out and sign some free agent to fill gaps.   But I'm not sure how you do that and still stay under the cap or don't put the team in cap hell for years to come.   I'm guessing he sees how the Patriots are in the championship games almost every year and is using that as is measuring stick.

I agree but It sure helps to play in a crappy division and really only have had to worry about 2 other teams ( Denver and Pittsburgh) for the most part. Put the Pats in the NFC and I'd almost bet their number of titles would be cut in half.

It's more than player talent, coaching in the NFL is arguably more important than most professional sports. It's not the skill aspect but rather the strategy. Living in NE I'm forced to watch the Patriots. One thing is clear, they look like a different team every week. BB really takes matchup game planning to a new level. I think it is very hard to do this and most won't put forth the effort. MM once had this look to his teams but now they seem to play a game of stop me if you can. Did the Packers start every offensive possession this season with a run up the middle for little to no yards? Did the packers often call the "go deep and don't get open" routes on 3rd and short? It sure seemed that way. 

So besides players on D, we need to see a little more creativity with our game planning. Really, everyone in the world knew Gunter was assigned to covering Julio Jones before that game, why is this?

I know there is a measure of team traits, even on the Patriots. But you still need a fresh approach to each game that reflects you've done some HW and are placing the players in the best matchups to succeed. Do we have that in GB? 

An article on ESPN says Patriots winning with less talent. I suppose that comes down to the definition of talent. Raw athleticism alone doesn't get it done. Patriots are known for signing smart players, able to adapt to changes in game plans quickly. They don't win with highlight reel plays, it's a very blue collar slow and steady wins the race mentality. As much as I hate them, I do marvel at Bellicheck's approach to the game. And yes, put Brady on another team and his numbers also come way down.

Packiderm posted:

SanDiegoPackFan posted:

I think he's frustrated and is hinting at TT to go out and sign some free agent to fill gaps.   But I'm not sure how you do that and still stay under the cap or don't put the team in cap hell for years to come.   I'm guessing he sees how the Patriots are in the championship games almost every year and is using that as is measuring stick.

I agree but It sure helps to play in a crappy division and really only have had to worry about 2 other teams ( Denver and Pittsburgh) for the most part. Put the Pats in the NFC and I'd almost bet their number of titles would be cut in half.

No doubt - the AFC east (except NE) has some of the worst coaching in the league when it comes to creative strategies. 

I'm glad AR made those comments and it was a direct shot at the front office. How can he watch and listen to all the media and fans marvel at his QB performance then be satisfied with a D that forces one punt and one FG in the NFCC? The one FG by the way being celebrated by fans as if it were a 3 and out.

I'm sure Rodgers watched the Atlanta offense and daydreamed of heading that unit. Tamme is their least productive ball handler, and he's better than cook. Sanu would be our 1B. Taylor Gabriel is a signing that could make a difference in Green Bay. 

The failures of this team over the years has more often been on the defensive side, for whatever reason - coaching, players, scheme, health. All of these to some degree at one time or another. 

Clearly, this was Aaron saying It. Is. Time.

The Packers play in a division with Chicago, Detroit and Min...... Probably not as crummy as the AFC East but no murderers row.  Show up and they should be 5 and 1.

BrainDed posted:

Of course it's a public shot.   Good for him, the fact that he has to score 40 nearly every playoff game in order to advance is criminal.  

I completely agree.  I don't care how good your QB is (or who he is) and at what level he and the offense is playing at you CANNOT expect them to have to score 40+ a playoff game because your D is going to give up 35+ its just insane.

When you see a trend that has lasted for how long on the defensive side of the ball isn't it time to say "hmmm maybe something is wrong here?"

As for Aaron's legacy what we Packers fans will have to listen to are things like "well he only one Super Bowl" (assuming he only wins one) and "AR always choked in the playoffs"  but we will know that it was the defense who is killing his legacy not AR and his inability to win games.

AR's legacy is really tied to MM's. Unfortunately, part of his legacy is likely to be extreme deference to a defensive coordinator that didn't serve either one or the franchise well. TT is who he is and I'm not terribly optimistic that he's going to alter his philosophy to any meaningful degree.

the only thing I'll say about legacy is that it should be determined after a player has quit playing.  it's fingernails on a chalkboard to me every time I hear talk about defining an active player's legacy - the story is not complete so it's nothing but hyperventilating BS.  that said, I love a strong defense and we ain't had one for a long time.  I'm out.

Seems to me that the " I'm glad we're are in the playoffs every year"  crowd is starting to realize that the clock is ticking and wants a bit more than a playoff appearance.  Sure, being good enough to play Meaningful games every January is admirable.  

The truly meaningful game is played in February and a one trick pony team usually does not make that game.

What do you do when your team is forever decimated by injuries?  For once we had a year with a relatively unscathed O-line (all things considered) but there was not one position that didn't suffer injury - Aaron included.  Do opponents just bring it to the Packers?  Or is it still a strength and conditioning issue?

I wasn't too surprised they didn't have anything left in the tank after the Cowboys game.  I expected the worse while hoping for the best.  At least it was not like the recent 49ers blowout or the Seahawks come-from-behind type of loss.

I suspect most give this year's club a pass due to the injuries but it is the collective sum of the playoff debacles in the M3/TT era that have fans sensing more and more that the ticking of the clock is getting louder and louder...

This has obviously been debated a lot here over the years. I doubt TT changes now. He is what he is - a guy who is good at getting value in the middle rounds of the draft and had a run of finding UDFAs who could be major contributors. He's never been good at getting impact players in the first round. He drafted Rodgers and CM3 which were grand slams, and got Bulaga and Dix as well. But he struck out a lot - especially recently and the lack of contributions from #1 picks is hurting them right now.

The other problem is that I think he fell a little too much in love with the UDFA route after hitting what were essentially home runs with Tramon Williams and Sam Shields. Instead of shopping for more mid-tier veteran free agents that can get you by for a year or two (the Letroy Guion/Jared Cook type signings that the Patriots seem to thrive with), he's made the decision he'd rather bring in a bunch of UDFAs and keep his 6th and 7th round picks to see if he can get 4 years of a good player at basically minimum NFL salary. If you get Shields and Tramon that's tremendous, but you also end up with guys like Gunther (had to play #1 CB due to injuries so maybe an unfair example), Don Barclay, Joe Thomas, Brice, Marwin Evans, Hawkins, etc. playing major roles at times. There was a reason these guys weren't drafted - in many cases because they lacked measurable. Shields was an exception to this because he was incredibly fast - it's amazing in retrospect nobody drafted him just due to the fact you can't coach a guy to have that kind of speed.  

The biggest beefs I have with TT are twofold. First, the reluctance to explore (at least that we are aware of) more low to mid-tier free agents to fill in some gaps. Second, the tendency to hold onto his own draft picks and UDFAs after it's been shown that they aren't very good or can't play at a respectable level anymore (Don Barclay, MD Jennings, Brad Jones, AJ Hawk, Carl Bradford, etc.). If you are going to do draft and develop, you have to move on when it's not going to work out. We don't for the most part.

Pikes Peak posted:

Seems to me that the " I'm glad we're are in the playoffs every year"  crowd is starting to realize that the clock is ticking and wants a bit more than a playoff appearance.  Sure, being good enough to play Meaningful games every January is admirable.  

The truly meaningful game is played in February and a one trick pony team usually does not make that game.

 

Seems to me you're missing the point. The only thing everyone is finally realizing is that Dom and his defense **** this team every January. 

Im incredibly glad GB is in the playoffs every year. I don't give a **** about any ticking clocks. I want a defense that at the very least puts up SOME resistance in January. 

It's a team game you win Super Bowls from good teams not just good quarterback play. 

Super Bowls are a team achievement.

Aaron is questioning everyone else around him because he knows he's doing everything he can. That includes the front office. 10 years it's time for a change need to shake things up. Change is a good thing especially as far as our defense is concerned

I'm sure he's frustrated.  People that defend TT frequently argue, "Well, at least he's responsible when it comes to spending - he doesn't get us in cap hell."  That's bull****.  You can use the cap space in a responsible, effective manner in an effort to make your team more competitive.  Look at Denver.  They had Manning for four years, and their approach to free agency got them to the Super Bowl in two out of those four years.  And in that three-year span, they fielded not only one of the best offenses of all time, but also one of the best defenses of all time just two years later.  Look at New England.  They consistently assemble Super Bowl caliber teams, even though they've lost a number of great players over the years.  

Make no mistake about it: TT's unwillingness to help this team in free agency has hurt the legacies of Rodgers, McCarthy, and Capers.  To the extent they've underachieved during the course of their careers, TT bears some responsibility for those shortcomings.     

As Boris has said I think a change right now would be a good thing.  Change isn't always the answer but I think this time it is.  It is just time for some fresh ideas. 

Anyhow, I agree with others that Dom's D screws this team every January but I also would contend that it screws this team for stretches at a time during the season which puts them in a bad spot in January with a lack of home games.

For instance during the 4 game stretch this year when Dom's D gave up more points in one month than any Packers team in over 60 years? (maybe more I can't remember) .  It is a freaking miracle that Rodgers got them to the playoffs having to overcome defense that horrid.  Those are the things that need to be mentioned in his legacy.

I think the frustrating thing is as Packer fans that we "wasted" several years of having a HOF QB in Favre by only getting to 2 Super Bowls and winning 1. Of course, the main problem that "wasted" those years was Favre played like crap. Favre was 12-10 in playoff games for the Packers with 39 TDs and 28 interceptions. Even worse, after Favre started out with a record of 8-4 with 23 TDs and 10 interceptions, he went 4-6 with 16 TDs and 18 interceptions after playing in 2 Super Bowls. In retrospect, many of us overlooked how awful he was in the playoffs Post-Super Bowl.

In contrast, we've "wasted" Rodgers years not because of Rodgers, but because of other problems with the team. Rodgers has a 9-7 record but has thrown for 4458 yards with 36 TDs and 10 interceptions and has a QB ranking of 99.4. That QB ranking is #4 all time in the playoffs. The only guys ahead of him with significant games played are Bart Starr (104), Warner (102.8), and Brees (100.7). He's ahead of Montana, Brady, Aikman, Young, etc. I can't ever think of a game that I would say Rodgers made a mistake that lost the game for GB (other than the non-call face mask in 2009). Favre was a master at throwing game ending interceptions. Rodgers is one of the best playoff QBs of all time.

Dom's approach to the defense appears stale; he's definitely not getting it done when we really need it. I'll give you that.  I've was ready to move on from Dom years ago, and I hope we make a change this offseason.  But if we are being fair, let's take an honest look at what TT has provided him from a talent standpoint.  In all of years of drafting, TT has missed on a lot of picks for the defense.  We've spent numerous high draft picks on that side of the ball, and the success has been limited (e.g., CMIII, Raji, Collins, HHCD, etc.).  Other than CMIII, TT's best contribution to the defense was the free agent signing of Woodson.  At least TT has consistently hit on his draft picks for MM's offense.  The same can't be said for the defense.   

Do we know for certain Dom didn't advise Mike who advised Ted he was good at corner with Randall, Rollins, and Gunter and he'd be fine letting Hayward walk? Do we know for certain Dom knew what he had in Hayward? Did Dom and Co. do such a terrible job with Hayward the cost to keep him seemed laughable to all involved? 

A couple early mock drafts in another thread are heavy on the defense again. Again! With the possibility of adding a mid tier CB and possibly a LB in free agency. 

My question is. Why the **** go that route again? It's handing a fresh batch of players to a coaching staff that hasn't exactly proven its capable of coaching. **** that. I've watched that enough times. 

I say. Draft every skilled talent position on offense all 7 rounds. Add a couple WR free agents. Make it a goal to score 45 points every game in 2017. 

That or fire Dom. 

Well said. Especially the last two words.

His time has passed.

Who fires him?  MM is pretty loyal and bullheaded.  Do TT and Murphy suggest that a change is needed?  Do they insist a change is needed?  What if MM balks, are they willing to go to the mat?  Should they?

In 3 NFC championship games with Rodgers the Packers are averaging 21 points a game.  They've only scored 3 meaningful offensive touchdowns in those 3 games (the 3 TDs Sunday were as meaningless as you can get) .  Sure, the defense blows but it's not like the offense has been lighting up the scoreboard in these championship games.  Rodgers has thrown 4 TDs and 5 picks in NFCC games.  

If you had said the Packers would only score 21 points vs Atlanta 100% of the people said they'd have lost.

That being said something needs to be fixed on the defense.  It's either the guy picking the players or the guy picking the plays.  Erik Walden was not very good in GB.  I think this year he had double digit sacks.   Casey Hayward was not very good in GB after his great rookie year.  This year he led the NFL in interceptions and was 2nd team all-pro and he also made the pro bowl.  

Capers will likely be retained and a year from now we'll be here wondering what can be done to fix the defense.  

ChilliJon posted:

Do we know for certain Dom didn't advise Mike who advised Ted he was good at corner with Randall, Rollins, and Gunter and he'd be fine letting Hayward walk? Do we know for certain Dom knew what he had in Hayward? Did Dom and Co. do such a terrible job with Hayward the cost to keep him seemed laughable to all involved? 

A couple early mock drafts in another thread are heavy on the defense again. Again! With the possibility of adding a mid tier CB and possibly a LB in free agency. 

My question is. Why the **** go that route again? It's handing a fresh batch of players to a coaching staff that hasn't exactly proven its capable of coaching. **** that. I've watched that enough times. 

I say. Draft every skilled talent position on offense all 7 rounds. Add a couple WR free agents. Make it a goal to score 45 points every game in 2017. 

That or fire Dom. 

Boy you really touched on something I've been thinking of but have not articulated as well as you did.

Why not just add an explosive RB (the Falcons tandem sure looked good), another WR, and or a TE in the Cook mold and go all in on the offense.

How much worse could the D really look if we didn't spend our past 5 first round picks on that side of the ball?

Pikes Peak posted:

The Packers play in a division with Chicago, Detroit and Min...... Probably not as crummy as the AFC East but no murderers row.  Show up and they should be 5 and 1.

Since the Super Bowl "era 2010" the Pack has had as contenders with legit SB chances: 

Vikes 

Bears 

Lions 

Saints

Falcons

Giants

Dal-ass

49 ers

Seahawks

NE has had Pit, Denver  KC and Baltimore 

Pikes Peak posted:

The Packers play in a division with Chicago, Detroit and Min...... Probably not as crummy as the AFC East but no murderers row.  Show up and they should be 5 and 1.

More importantly, Chicago is QB'd by Matt Barkley and Minnesota by Sam Bradford. Stafford is clearly the best of the 3. Despite going 5-1, the Packers pass defense against these teams doesn't inspire confidence.

The Packers best defensive performance of the year was the first Bears game. Hoyer and Barkley were 10-26 for 130 yards, 0 TDs, and 2 ints for a 22.9 rating.

In the other 5 games, the Packers pass defense gave up 140 completions in 206 attempts for 1762 yards, 12 TDs and 5 ints. A 103.6 rating. The Vikings and the Bears may have had the worst OLs in the league and their QBs are at best serviceable, yet for the most part they lit us up.

From ESPN April 2016

Who calls the shots in all 32 NFL draft rooms?

Green Bay Packers: General manager Ted Thompson makes the call. Former Packers president Bob Harlan gave then-GM Ron Wolf full authority over all football decisions when he hired him in 1991 and promised no interference, and current president Mark Murphy has continued that with Thompson. However, as coach Mike McCarthy tells it, Thompson "told me in the beginning he would never force a player on me." So there's input from McCarthy and the scouts, but it's ultimately Thompson's decision. -- Rob Demovsky

MichiganPacker posted:

Shields was an exception to this because he was incredibly fast - it's amazing in retrospect nobody drafted him just due to the fact you can't coach a guy to have that kind of speed.  

Shields did have speed.  But at Miami, he was a washout as a receiver.  He had one season as a CB at Miami.  And although he did ok, it was a new position for him.  That is why he went undrafted. 

Someone named John just brought up this threads question almost verbatim on the Bill Michael's show. Someone here?

If it was easy and any kind of sure thing (the formula to winning a SB), they would do what it takes. It is not a simple task. That might be simplifying it somewhat but....

Is this for real?

"There was no reason for Rodgers to look or play tired. People have the flu bug all the time and nobody even talks about it" - Bob McGinn

Such a cold hearted thing to say about anyone not the least one of the greatest QB's in Green Bay history. #smh

packerboi posted:

Is this for real?

@coreybehnke

"There was no reason for Rodgers to look or play tired. People have the flu bug all the time and nobody even talks about it" - Bob McGinn

@coreybehnke

Such a cold hearted thing to say about anyone not the least one of the greatest QB's in Green Bay history. #smh

McGinn also gave him a 1.5 rating out of 5. I don't know what game he was watching. While he wasn't all-world, it wasn't like Rodgers stunk the place up.

Apparently Bob wants to be Wisconsin's Skip Clueless. What a great aspiration!!

I guess it's also Rodgers fault Crosby shanked and Rip fumbled at the worst time also.

#Jesus**** #dipschit

QB gets most of the credit and most of the scrutiny. Rodgers play has set the bar so high that it's inevitable he gets blame in a loss such as this. Maybe not enough attention was brought to the fact that eight weeks straight other guys made big plays on the receiving end of his throws. That component wasn't as dynamic on Sunday, as ppl dropped quite a few. It was also noted re Ryan how many guys caught passes from him. The same narrative could go for Rodgers too, imo even more so. It's just that Rodgers closest equal to Julio Jones played with broken ribs, and for the majority of the yr he was usually missing one or more wrs and having to adjust to personnel weekly. Ryan had a great yr with most of his weapons healthy for most games. Any scrutiny of Rodgers and what this team accomplished should be taken with a grain of salt.