Lumps of Coal vs Red-Ryder BB Guns

You just can’t win with 4 turnovers.  Ugh.  Just to much to overcome.  

Even with Rodgers, we should've run more. Seemed like we had success on the ground and might've taken pressure off the passing game.

Coal:

See Olsen running wide open play after play after play. 

Lack of use of Jones and Williams.

AR12 trying to throw deep when his arm is not strong enough yet. 

Red Ryder:

Now i can ice fish more instead of watching Packer playoff football. 

YATittle posted:

Even with Rodgers, we should've run more. Seemed like we had success on the ground and might've taken pressure off the passing game.

 

Coal:

Not feeding Aaron Jones the ball

Jordy is about done

Dix was really, really bad at times

Josh Jones is lost

4 TO's

RR:

Arod taking a chance for the team by coming back

Cobb played well

Pack-Man posted:

YATittle posted:

Even with Rodgers, we should've run more. Seemed like we had success on the ground and might've taken pressure off the passing game.

 

Mikey loves to throw the ball. We shouldn't be surprised that he called 14 rush attempts (13 by the RBs, one designed run by Rodgers) and had Rodgers drop back 50 times in his first game back.

AR has the freedom to change plays at the LOS based upon what he sees the defense doing.  

Spriggs sucks even worse than we thought.....and that's saying something. 

Dave Grohl doing the peanuts song was awsum

RR BB gun-

on the road, against a better team, turn it over numerous times, Rodgers has a terrible game and you're in it till 1:48 that was amazing

Coal

Buck and Aikman- I hate them----one of the benefits of sucking is that we should never get them

HaHa C Dix--what happened to this guy this year? the LBs are better and so they play deeper safeties, but he avoids contact like he has an upper body injury--but once in awhile he comes up and makes a big hit...so it's not that ..and his pass coverage is terrible...I agreed with Aikman on the TD, but that is just the beginning of his woes..Jones continues to play like a rookie or I think he'd take snaps away from him.

Ted traded up for Spriggs and traded down to miss Watts---it is time for him and the coaching staff to say their goodbyes....McCarthy is a highly successful football coach provided he has Rodgers and Rodgers plays like Rodgers

Coal

DC and injuries.

Davies and nfl for not having sensible targeting rule

Coal: play calling balance. 45 passes by a guy coming back after 8 weeks due to a broken collarbone, and 13 runs by our running backs. Rodgers had nearly half as many runs as Jones and Williams. 

Red-Ryder: this has to be the end of Dam Compers as Defensive Coordinator. It just has to be! 

Play calling imbalance odd. Isn’t Carolina stronger against pass than the run?  MM might have thought we needed to be in track meet given DC performance. 

I’ve really had it.  Sorry to be grumpy, but how long do we have to endure Dom’s incompetence?  He has to go.

And I know I’m very early with this, but I’m ready for a house cleaning.  T.T. Has got to go, too.  Is Wolf’s son still with the Packers?  Let him be G.M.

And for crying out loud, let’s make it a priority to get some decent cornerbacks and inside linebackers!  Those have been weak spots for years now.

And while I had hopes that Martellus B. Would work out at T.E., we’re right back to having Rich Rod starting.  Kendrick is (IMHO), okay but he’s not going to set the world on fire.  So, let’s get an honest-to-God stud for that spot.

We’ve wasted (imho) way too many years of a great, great quarterback’s career with a lousy D.C. and some pretty mediocre players.  Let’s clean house!

yep, I know it wont happen but ready to clean house. the ceiling for this group was to start 8-6 and catch fire as a 6th seed in 2010. that was eons ago.

we have a great qb (though not today), some good wrs (probbaly will lose 1) and some promising Rbs. thats it . the rest are a pile of feces...and they are poorly coached.

If AR is gonna sniff a ring before he hangs it up, we need a major shakeup. this **** aint working. and **** the injury excuse every year.

They need a change in the defensive coaching staff. Whether you think Dom is an idiot or a guy that's suffered because TT has failed to provide him enough talent, what they are doing now is not working. Guys constantly running wide open over the middle of the field has happened in games for years now. Dom's pushing 70. Time to try another system. One that there isn't a decade of tape on that Newton, Brees, Stafford, Wilson, Big Ben, etc. haven't played against multiple times. When's the last time a top level QB made a mistake against this defense because he was fooled by the exotic coverages? The Jameis Winston's and Kizer's of the world will make mistakes, but not experienced guys. 

They need more speed at WR. They have once guy that can physically dominate the CB matched up against him in Davante Adams. Cobb is a good gadget guy- he's their version of McCaffrey. Jordy should probably think about retiring to the farm at this point. He has very little value unless he's playing with a healthy Rodgers (Due to their chemistry). He's played healthy (as far as we know) for the last 8 games. He has 25 catches for 171 yards. Granted he was playing with Hundley for a lot of that, but less than 7 yards a catch for a WR isn't going to get it done. I can't remember the last tackle he broke. 10 million next year for him is wasted money. 

I don’t think you blow the whole thing up. IMO, 12 would have at least one more ring if he’d had an even remotely competent defense, which he hasn’t had since 2010. Admittedly, MM is to blame for not canning Dom years ago, but if he’s finally willing to pull the plug and replace the entire defensive staff after this season, I think there’s still hope. 

And I think the defensive problems have been mostly scheme related. The Wizard simply isn’t fooling anybody anymore, except for his own players. 

Adams looks/looked good

defense does not

MichiganPacker2 posted:

Jordy should probably think about retiring to the farm at this point. He has very little value unless he's playing with a healthy Rodgers (Due to their chemistry). He's played healthy (as far as we know) for the last 8 games. He has 25 catches for 171 yards. Granted he was playing with Hundley for a lot of that, but less than 7 yards a catch for a WR isn't going to get it done. I can't remember the last tackle he broke. 10 million next year for him is wasted money. 

I hate to admit it, but as a business, they have to think about cutting him or asking him to take a HUUUUGE paycut. even if he were to separate from a DB dude falls down or heads out of bounds even if he catches it. He doesnt attempt to break tackles and stays safely on the perimeter. He should take the paycut because he wont do anything in many other offenses. 10 million for 400 yds a season isnt a wise investment. 2018 is his 11th NFL season

I'd argue the talent level is really poor on the team. Honestly, who are their good players?

Great: Rodgers

Very Good: Bakhtiari, Daniels, Adams, Burnett

Legitimate NFL starters: Clark, Lane Taylor, Cobb, Bulaga/Matthews/Perry/Nelson (downgraded due to durability issues), Ripkowski

Inconsistent with flashes but potential to get better: Clinton-Dix, Randall, Aaron Jones, Josh Jones, King, Linsley

Solid rotational guys: Kendricks, Lowery, Martinez

The rest are either unknown young guys, stop-gaps or scuds.

Bakh is an elite left tackle. 

Need a fresh approach and new voices in player acquisition, offense and defense. Blow the whole thing up.

With their fate all but sealed, I’m ok with it. It appeared long ago that in order for them to take two steps forward, they were going to need to take a step back. The greatness of 12 prevented that for a long time. 

But now we have it. If the organization doesn’t act quickly, the window will close on the greatest QB in NFL history with one improbable title. One that required an unprecedented run of success in road games leading to the Super Bowl. One that actually, upon a historical review, was kinda lucky. Lots of things fell right to make it happen. 

The Packers have failed to seal the deal in every season they should have won it all- ‘11, ‘14, even last year. In each failure, one issue is the common denominator- a defense that wasn’t able to stop the opponent. 

So the path forward is clear. A new leader, a new scheme, a new voice. There are many to choose from- Vic Fangio will likely be available when the Bears’ staff is sent packing. Dave Aranda may be ready to make the leap to the pros. Maybe some others. It must be done. If they don’t they’re going to commit the ultimate crime- failing the greatest QB to ever throw a football...

Random Thoughts

It was exciting to have 12 back but after the third INT I yelled "Put in the backup!" at the TV. I was joking, Rodgers battled to the end.

My wife said the only time that I swear a lot is during Packer games.

I bet Scam Newton's smile won't last long come the post-season.

Too bad our RBs both went out with injury, oh wait, that was stud WR on cheap shot. "Run the fricken ball!"

D made a few key stops today, but then they didn't.

Randall clamped down on Funchess and EZ hit forced a drop/killed a TD.

Janis! sighting at WR

Butt down touchdown, WTF?

Onside kick recovery seemed to signal destiny.  But 4th TO KO'd our 3rd OT win...

IF ATL wins Mon to knock GB out of playoffs then let Hundley play. While injury to 12 is a concern, I don't want a Rodgers band-aid make everything seem ok. I echo the chorus: time for Dom to go bye-bye, TT too.

PS Seattle got waxed by the Rams 

I'd try and bring Nick Saban in. He is ready to win big in the NFL as he has the QB in AR.

++++++

Cobb had a nice game 

Randall actually looking like a legit corner 

Martinez was solid 

Aaron Jones can play 

------

Rodgers was rusty but that's not why we lost 

Hit on Adams totally unnecessary - NFLFU for not ejecting Davis

Butt catch upheld call laughable 

Dix and Jones were awful 

it's going to be an interesting offseason that's for sure.  I see no reason how or why Dom survives this debacle of a season and quite honestly I hope TT moves on as well.  The last 2-3 drafts have been a disaster with guys like Rollins and Spriggs and Fackrell flaming out not to mention the Bennett signing and passing on TJ Watt at 29 this year.   I've not been critical of Teddy but it's time for a new GM.   As for McCarthy, I'd leave the decision up to the new GM on whether or not he's retained because he might be deserving of another chance but maybe not as it sure looks like a lot of the success is on the shoulders of Rodgers. 

Then you have player decisions like what to do with Jordy and Cobb at WR and CMIII at LB.  All 3 of those guys are making All Pro money but aren't playing like it so will be curious to see what happens as they have to resign Adams. 

Where does the Packers scoring stats sit through 14 games of the season? Assuming Atlanta scores more than 21 points tonight the Packers PF=309 and PA=333 ranks #10 for both categories in the NFC and #17 PF and #20 PA in the league. 

TSCHMACK, Butt catch wasn’t upheld, it was overturned which makes it even worse

This one surprised me

I can tell you a DC change is in order. Doesn’t mean it will happen. We’ll see. https://t.co/TLkxpjgVq0

— Tom Crabtree (@itsCrab) December 18, 2017

Only becuase I kinda thought GraveDigger and Crabtree were the same person

Coal:

The defense AGAIN as a previous poster said there is one common denominator with this team since it won the Super Bowl and that is the play of the defense.  I may be reading in to it too much but it seemed like MM hung his head a few times when the defense didn't get it done.  I am hoping he was thinking that a change desperately needs to be made on that side of the ball.  I still say there is talent on D and if they do make a change I guarantee they will improve drastically.

hey Dom how about you scheme something to cover Olsen? or how about you come up with something to stop the other team's receivers from running wild

Getting away from the running game a little too much. I thought the run blocking was outstanding yesterday

How in the world was #58 allowed to keep playing? If the NFL is truly concerned about player safety this is the shining example of what "targeting" (if they bring that rule in) should be.   I think that play was suspension worthy and I hope he has to write a huge check this week. And yes I would think the same if a Packer did that.

BB-gun:

I do think going forward the running game is in good hands

I honestly and truly believe Dom retires/fired after the year.  He has to right? please? Santa are you listening?

I know the season is pretty much done without any playoff chances but man would it be nice if the Pack can beat the Spermheads and knock them out of home field.

Will be really interesting to see if AR plays in that game.  I'm sure he'd like to distribute some reckoning.

17 may be approaching "too many concussions" territory.  He may not have a large career total but those 2 shots within a couple months can have a sum greater than its parts.  Really unfortunate for a young player.

I don't know about the first one but Davante walked off the field pretty easily yesterday.  If you're really concussed up it ain't that easy and you've got a towel over your head.

That doesn't really mean anything.  Reactions vary greatly case by case.  ANY ding to his ringer after the Trevathan hit this soon his compounded.

Finally some attention to it: Targeting

Coal: HHCD's lacksadaisical play. He stands there and watches plays go by him with little or no effort, on his part, to stop the play. He could have played a part in the catch/not a catch/ catch TD Carolina scored, but he didn't do anything. He might as well be sitting in the stands. Looks like Safety is another position we need to draft. More coal: 4 turnovers killed us. You just cannot do that and expect to win, yet after the third turnover, with less that 2:00 left, we were driving for the game tying score.(I'll bet Carolina was loading their pants when we recovered that onside kick). Then, Allison gets the ball stripped from him. End of story. We could not cover McCaffrey early and Olsen late in the game. Our Defense needs a lot of work! Even more Coal: The cheap shot on Davante Adams. It was obviously a targeting type call, if we were a college team. There has to be a stiffer penalty than just a flag, loss of yardage, and maybe a fine. The offender has to be out of football as long as the injured player is. Whatever they do, it was ANOTHER fricking cheap shot on a Packer player and the second, or maybe the third helmet to helmet on Davante, this year.

RRBBG: This was Richard Rodgers' best game. He even looked fast, especially on that TD catch. IMO, Best hands on the team. I like Kendricks, too, but today, the TE job belonged to RR. That being said, we still need to draft a TE. Our running game will help Arod a lot, IF WE USE IT! Thanks to whomever gave me the link to sportsarefree.xyz ! The Packer game was blacked out in my area due to vikings playing on CBS at the same time, so I used that link to watch the Packers play. When I found that Aikman and Buck were announcing the game, I turned the sound down on my computer and listened to the Packer game on the radio. Had to get used to the radio being two plays ahead of the stream, but at least I didn't have to listen to Aikman or Buck, at all. This was a bad loss for the Packers. Arod was not at full strength as all three INTS were under thrown. Had ARod been healthy, those INTs MAY have been TD catches. Lets put this game behind us and prepare to STOMP purple next week. Prepare for the whine! GO PACK, GO!

DH13 posted:

That doesn't really mean anything.  Reactions vary greatly case by case.  ANY ding to his ringer after the Trevathan hit this soon his compounded.

Finally some attention to it: Targeting

Agreed. For his own health, the Packers should shut him down the last two weeks. I don't think he is that predisposed to concussions, he just got hit twice this year with lethal cheap shots. The problem is that now he's probably another concussion away from being another Sam Shields. Give him 7 months off to recover. If he leaves as a free agent that's fine, but his long-term health as a human being is more important at this point.

Travathon got suspended ONE game and Thomas Davis will probably pay a big fine but won't miss any significant time. The concussion history could cost Adams big money this offseason. Too bad he can't sue Davis and Travathon for lost wages - the concussion history will cause some teams to shy away from him and may cost him 10-15 million dollars.

Adams, 3 concussions in 14 months.

HaHa is somewhat of a head scratcher, but upon further review his play in '17 is much like the D as a group. Moments to love, but more negatives than the "team" can overcome. 

MichiganPacker posted:

 The concussion history could cost Adams big money this offseason. Too bad he can't sue Davis and Travathon for lost wages - the concussion history will cause some teams to shy away from him and may cost him 10-15 million dollars.

Definitely a concern for him.  However there are teams out there that are far more reckless with their $ than TT and will pay 17 top dollar, concussions or not.  Bigger selfish worry for me is that we can't re-sign him as we are already lacking in the WR department even with 17.

DH13 posted:

MichiganPacker posted:

 The concussion history could cost Adams big money this offseason. Too bad he can't sue Davis and Travathon for lost wages - the concussion history will cause some teams to shy away from him and may cost him 10-15 million dollars.

Definitely a concern for him.  However there are teams out there that are far more reckless with their $ than TT and will pay 17 top dollar, concussions or not.  Bigger selfish worry for me is that we can't re-sign him as we are already lacking in the WR department even with 17.

They need a big-time infusion of speed on offense. Specifically at WR and TE.

It's possible that there WR core could be substantially remade next year, especially if someone offers Adams big money that the Packers don't want to match.

Adams is a Sterling Sharpe type player - he makes tough catches in traffic and is strong enough to beat press coverage off the line. He's got a lot of productive years ahead of him depending on the concussion situation. He doesn't threaten anyone deep, but he's in the #10-20 NFL ranking for an NFL WR. Is that worth $15 million a year? Someone may pay him that.

Jordy Nelson is no longer a starting caliber NFL WR. He's James Jones circa 2015. He'll catch some back shoulders and make some plays when Rodgers goes into scramble mode, but he generates no separation and hasn't broken a tackle in about two months. He's had 25 catches in the last 8 games -but a lot of them are for 3-4 yards with no YAC. 10 million next year is way too much. The fact he can longer play on special teams (other than onside kick coverage) makes it difficult to keep him around as well. I'm not sure he's worth keeping around even with a significant pay cut next year.

Randall Cobb is still a decent slot receiver. He's good for about 60 catches, 700 yards, and 5 TDs a season. 10 million next year is probably too much for that. Ty Montgomery does the same things. Monty isn't quite as good, but he'll be much cheaper. I could see them parting with Cobb if he doesn't accept a pay cut. Cobb has some juice left in him and I could see him going to another team for a 4-5 million dollar a year contract and making some contributions. Hopefully he'll take that from Green Bay.

Geronimo Allison is just another guy. He's not fast enough to be a starting NFL WR.

For a team that desperately needs to develop some young playmakers, the fact that you have two WRs on the roster that never play from scrimmage is a big problem. It would be one thing if Janis or Davis handled both kickoff and punt returns. The fact that they use up two roster spots to do this prevents them from having some more depth at another spot. You don't even need a KR at this point.

TE may see 3 new players next year. RichRod is unrestricted and Kendricks is a good 3rd TE.

So, one scenario next year is that Adams leaves for big money elsewhere, Cobb refuses to take a pay cut and signs somewhere else, and Nelson rides off into the sunset (and you get 3 completely new guys at TE)> That would be difficult for Rodgers to adjust to, but I'm not sure that's worse than signing Adams to a 15 million dollar a year contract and bringing back Cobb and Jordy at 10 million each.

Most likely scenario is that Adams signs for 15 million, they keep Cobb another year at 10 million, and Jordy leaves. Whether that happens or not, they have to get someone with some speed they can actually play from scrimmage.

I am holding out hope 87 still has some life in him if he wants to play.  I think he got lost in the Hundley offense and had only a week to get back into gear with 12.  He was leading the league in TD's before AR went down.  There was an "interesting" story somewhere around here early in the year, a knitting circle piece of gossip that claimed Jordy had already decided this was his last year and planned on retiring after the season.  If that comes to fruition it will certainly cast a different light on his play on the back 9 these last couple months.  Either way I agree he'll have to trim his paycheck.

MichiganPacker posted:

DH13 posted:

MichiganPacker posted:

 The concussion history could cost Adams big money this offseason. Too bad he can't sue Davis and Travathon for lost wages - the concussion history will cause some teams to shy away from him and may cost him 10-15 million dollars.

Definitely a concern for him.  However there are teams out there that are far more reckless with their $ than TT and will pay 17 top dollar, concussions or not.  Bigger selfish worry for me is that we can't re-sign him as we are already lacking in the WR department even with 17.

They need a big-time infusion of speed on offense. Specifically at WR and TE.

It's possible that there WR core could be substantially remade next year, especially if someone offers Adams big money that the Packers don't want to match.

Adams is a Sterling Sharpe type player - he makes tough catches in traffic and is strong enough to beat press coverage off the line. He's got a lot of productive years ahead of him depending on the concussion situation. He doesn't threaten anyone deep, but he's in the #10-20 NFL ranking for an NFL WR. Is that worth $15 million a year? Someone may pay him that.

Jordy Nelson is no longer a starting caliber NFL WR. He's James Jones circa 2015. He'll catch some back shoulders and make some plays when Rodgers goes into scramble mode, but he generates no separation and hasn't broken a tackle in about two months. He's had 25 catches in the last 8 games -but a lot of them are for 3-4 yards with no YAC. 10 million next year is way too much. The fact he can longer play on special teams (other than onside kick coverage) makes it difficult to keep him around as well. I'm not sure he's worth keeping around even with a significant pay cut next year.

Randall Cobb is still a decent slot receiver. He's good for about 60 catches, 700 yards, and 5 TDs a season. 10 million next year is probably too much for that. Ty Montgomery does the same things. Monty isn't quite as good, but he'll be much cheaper. I could see them parting with Cobb if he doesn't accept a pay cut. Cobb has some juice left in him and I could see him going to another team for a 4-5 million dollar a year contract and making some contributions. Hopefully he'll take that from Green Bay.

Geronimo Allison is just another guy. He's not fast enough to be a starting NFL WR.

For a team that desperately needs to develop some young playmakers, the fact that you have two WRs on the roster that never play from scrimmage is a big problem. It would be one thing if Janis or Davis handled both kickoff and punt returns. The fact that they use up two roster spots to do this prevents them from having some more depth at another spot. You don't even need a KR at this point.

TE may see 3 new players next year. RichRod is unrestricted and Kendricks is a good 3rd TE.

So, one scenario next year is that Adams leaves for big money elsewhere, Cobb refuses to take a pay cut and signs somewhere else, and Nelson rides off into the sunset (and you get 3 completely new guys at TE)> That would be difficult for Rodgers to adjust to, but I'm not sure that's worse than signing Adams to a 15 million dollar a year contract and bringing back Cobb and Jordy at 10 million each.

Most likely scenario is that Adams signs for 15 million, they keep Cobb another year at 10 million, and Jordy leaves. Whether that happens or not, they have to get someone with some speed they can actually play from scrimmage.

 

Good discussion here but strongly disagree on Jordy.  He's gotten lost in the offense this year because Hundley never looked past his first read in a progression.  He had 14 td catches last year and was having a solid season again until Rodgers went down.  And, you can never overvalue the chemistry between 12 and 87.