I still don't think talant is the problem.
ISO routes have been discussed for over a year now
phaedrus posted:Pistol GB:
There are no safe staple plays to build momentum and wear down defenses.
What I mean is, you cannot be one dimensional in this league and you need to keep defenses honest. With no running game we can't do that. Even when we do run, defenses know it is a token gesture and we won't stay with it. All defenses have to do against us is play the pass every time.
You can probably survive with a HOF QB and no running game if you have a reliable TE and can use the short passing game. We can't do either one right now.
You can survive with a HOF QB with no running game if you have recievers but not be one dimensional because you need to keep the defense honest? WTF are you saying here man?
I see two key differences between the packers 5 years ago and today. One is YAC. We used to be the king of YAC. Short pass plays into the flat and let your WRs create something. Now we're only throwing long and taking forever for receivers to get open. And even when they catch the ball they're immediately down because they're running comeback routes on a scramble play not catching it in stride.
Weirdly it seems to me the main reason for this is Rodgers ability to scramble. Early in his career he took a ton of sacks. That meant when he did throw he had to get it out quickly. Now he's so good at avoiding sacks if he doesn't see perfect coverage he scrambles and we're back to sandlot football which isn't working. You can't do that every play.
The other difference I see is an attitude of "next man up". Our 2010 SB team had tons of injuries. 16 guys were on IR and two starters were injured in the SB. The attitude that season was "next man up". No excuses, plug the next guy in and lets go.
Now there is none of that. We keep talking about being banged up this season but that didn't stop us in 2010. Hell we had an undrafted rookie starting at CB that year too. I don't buy the injury excuse. The players aren't that bad, there's still a lot of talent on this team.
In the end I think this is a leadership problem. From the coaches to the players. MM has gotten stale and this staleness has filters down to the players. There's no attitude anymore, no drive. MM has always been about creating a "rhythm". That works if the team has a rhythm and the players feed off of it. But when it's not there the solution isn't just to keep trying to force the rhythm. You need a different beat.
In the end I think MM is too scared to change. I think he's convinced change would just be for changes sake and may make the situation worse. What he doesn't realize is change is going to happen whether he likes it or not.
I think what was meant is you can survive with a HOF QB and no running game if Dom Capers doesn't suck.
ChilliJon posted:You can survive with a HOF QB with no running game if you have recievers but not be one dimensional because you need to keep the defense honest? WTF are you saying here man?
What I originally said. No running game and no TE is insurmountable. You might be able to get by without one or the other, but not both. It's a 1-2 kick in the nuts.
I read a lot of good things on this thread. And as I write this I am watching the Bills playing the Seahawks. The Bills are an inferior team (in my opinion) and yet they are pulling out the stops and going deep into their playbook with some positive results. They may still lose but they are at least trying.
Our playcalling is tame by comparison.
Just saying...
This is the final paragraph from Mike Florio's most recent article:
"Regardless of the target(s) of Rodgers’ public ire, the Packers are once again struggling. Which means that, if they don’t qualify for the postseason, the Packers may finally decide to find a coach to match with Rodgers for at least the remaining years of his playing career."
Can you find the most tell-tale phrase or sentence? If you "struggle" too much, then re-read the paragraph.
Here's the link to the rest.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/m...sses%2C-lack-of.html
Stop posting a Viking fans thoughts on Green Bay. Let's hear you're thoughts. Not those of a Viking fan.
BrainDed posted:In the last 9 home games the Packers are 4-5. What the hell happened to home field advantage that Holgrem built?
I tried to look earlier, but couldn't find what I wanted, so I'm going to rely on memory...wish me luck.
As recently as 2 years ago, I think we were 5-1 in the division, and hadn't finished worse than 4-2 in a few years.
Now we're seeing what you posted. 
I mostly agree with ChilliJon's ideas on using WR's, but Monty has been effective in a hybrid RB/Screen receiver and in fact had great success yesterday, and then we stopped using him! Unleash the beast! He's better as a RB than a WR--keep him there and keep defenses honest!
Also, since our wideouts can't get open, it's crucial that we have SOMEONE who can scare the db's, and that means Trev Davis and J.Janis need to get playing time to run some deep routes to keep the db's honest!!!!
And at least one of you poo-poo'ed my statement that today the club would release someone to send "a shot across the bow" and show players that they need to earn that paycheck. But they did just that today. Unfortunately, it was someone I wasn't even familiar with. Whitehead? He lost contain on the opening Kickoff return. However, maybe they need to let an assistant coach go. It seems to me that the coaching is a BIG part of our problem, and right now I have no confidence in this regime. It's nightmarishly similar to the ghost of Ray Rhodes every week saying, "we'll fix that." And he never did!
My best guess is MM reached burnout somewhere around a couple of years or so back; perhaps the death of his Brother was the catalyst or hastened it.
He reached his peak around 2009-2011, and since then has declined every year. We've gone from 5 WR sets and other fairly exotic schemes, to "we do what we do". I'm not saying we need to return to those, but I am saying that's a significant regression in creativity and adaptability.
Another sore thumb that has stuck out for the past several years has been how other coaches and coordinators have known our tendencies, and have used that to plan the perfect attacks, but our own coaches don't see those same tendencies. IMHO, the is where the middle-of-the-field-is-always-open to the opponent's offense originates.
Nor do they recognize tendencies of other teams. As an example, we've played teams before who have some no-name rookie starting on the OL , had all week to plan for it, but have no particular attack planned to take advantage. No stunts, no blitzes at him, nothing. Of course, he looks like Joe Thomas, pass rush can't get there, they convert another 3rd down....
And I'll never forget the "we didn't scout for the R/O" debacle vs San Fran/Kaperdick. That one still bowls me over to this day! How a DC could think that is mind-boggling, and the fact that MM agreed/approved is mind-blowing!
Yeah, changes need to be made. I posted last week that if MM doesn't want to make any changes, then he need to be the change. I can't see another year of the ugliness of the last year or so for yet another year, nevermind another 3-4 years.
Players come and go, but the coaches need to be a constant and accountable for results. I know that we can't have All-Pro at every position, but playing guys like Barclay or even RichRod isn't the answer. Some guys respond well to coaching and development, and some don't. When they don't, it's time to cut bait and move on.
ChilliJon posted:... I'd pretty much put Dick Rodgers on the shelf until he shows anyone he's willing to put in the effort to learn how to block. Give snaps to Perillo until Cook is back....
I posted a week or 2 back that at his point, I'd line up either Spriggs or Murphy at one TE, and use Perillo in 2-TE formations. Of course, you give up whatever 'threat' RichRod may be receiving, but there should be an improvement in pass pro and run blocking.
Then again, sending an OL lined up at TE out on a pattern would be an "unscouted look"...
This is exactly how you win in the NFL. It's not scheming that makes a difference, everyone knows what everyone else is going to do, it's not a league of surprises any longer...it's all about execution.
How do you beat the Broncos vaunted defense? You line up and win 1 on 1's. GB's skill position players are not doing it on a consistent basis. The DB's are not doing it on a consistent basis. The pass rush is not doing it on a consistent basis. These players need a boot up their a$$ to get their sh!t together and play to their talent level. Don't know what McCarthy needs to do specifically, if his position coaches aren't challenging these players in practice or in meetings then they need to be put on notice or sent packing. If the players just aren't responding like they should, then they need to ride the pine until they can get their attitude straight. We have guys busting a$$ and winning 1 on 1's, guys like Mike Daniels, Blake Martinez, Jake Ryan, Mike Pennell, all of the OLine, etc. Some young guys have excuses, they're getting taken advantage of by veteran opponents (namely our CBs), but guys like Rodgers, Peppers, Perry, Dix, Burnett, Nelson, Cobb, Adams, D. Rodgers, etc. have no excuse for not winning 1 on 1's or being careless. Those are veteran players who have played a lot of snaps and get paid handsomely to man up and make plays. Scheme is only as good as the players who execute it, it's time for either some players to step up and get it done or position coaches to reevaluate how they're running their position group. McCarthy needs to bring in a veteran coach to evaluate wtf is going wrong with this team, someone who is unbiased and can evaluate this team honestly. McCarthy has loyalty, which is admirable, but when you're team is .500 halfway through the season then some hard evaluation needs to take place and realize who is not reciprocating the same loyalty.
If McCarthy needs to bring in a veteran coach to determine what's wrong with his team it's time for McCarthy to go.
Grave Digger posted:it's not a league of surprises any longer...it's all about execution.
Nope. No surprises.
"Two players said the Packers practiced next to no read-option during the week leading up to the loss to the San Francisco 49ers in the playoffs. Defensive coordinator Dom Capers says Green Bay did touch on it but admitted the 49ers ran more of it than they expected."
I read that over the last 20 games we have a losing record! The arrow is pointing down. I have mixed emotions about the next 3 road games. They are winnable but if we do I expect that no changes will happen. And that means a slightly better record will be seen by the team as reason to stay the course. And we all know that everybody will keep their jobs and nothing will change. Mike Sherman had winning records and it took a losing record for things to change.
It would be nice to not have to wait that long.
Oh, and one more thing. Aaron said that he is not a Rah Rah kind of guy. I say
"When in charge, BE in charge". We need leaders and that's not above your pay grade Aaron. Do it!
That's a coaching failure, not a surprise. Maybe it was a surprise to the first team SF ran it against, but even then teams knew there was going to be some of that mixed in when they drafted Kaepernick. There were quotes at the time of coaches saying they went back and watched film of Kaepernick at Nevada to get a feel for what he can do. What you pointed out was a Dom Capers fuk up, I'm not defending that at all. Film was there, it wasn't surprising. The NFL does what the NFL does, it's a passing league and while there are a variety of schemes, there is plenty of film on all of them. Coaches aren't ever surprised and if they are then it means they fukked up.
What does a fresh approach on offense have to do with the 49ers running the read option ****ing years ago?????????????????????
If you read back my point was/is about the fact that scheme in the NFL truly means nothing without proper execution on the field. I don't think there are "surprises" any longer coming from schemes, the NFL does what it does. CAP was pointing out the SF Read Option as a "surprise" we have seen recently, which I disagree that it was a surprise. That was a preparation failure by Capers and his staff, not a surprise. The tape was there, they just didn't prepare for it.
McCarthy doesn't need to "fix" the scheme or do something "fresh" because that doesn't exist in the NFL. Find the players who can execute and win 1 on 1 match ups and go with them. If there is truly a blueprint for beating GB, it's not scheme related...it's convincing your defenders that if they line up 1 on 1 against these receivers/tight ends/whoever and punch them in the face that they will fold. I think the leadership coming from guys like Donald Driver, Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Nick Collins, Des Bishop, Kevin Greene, etc. is more important than finding a fresher scheme. TT is averse to paying for high priced FA's, which is a strategy I agree with, but I think what TT discounts is the veteran leadership some of these FA's can provide. Mike Daniels can't motivate the whole team by himself and I don't hear much about there being other veteran leadership holding guys accountable.
Perhaps not "surprise" but I do think that schemes can cause "confusion" and "hesitation" in defenders that can give your WR an advantage (such as Cobb's "Fake block" and cut in end zone for TD). You see this at times with bunch formations, crossing routes, etc. . They can cause DBs to blow assignments.
If GD's points were true, McStupidface could just plan 6 plays each week and get even dum Janis! to run them correctly. 3 runs, 3 pass (one being a screen). As long as guys could execute those 6 plays to perfection, win after win after win. But EKB, the other team could just scheme to stop those plays. RONG. McStupidface would put all the run plays in one hat, all the pass plays in another hat and pick 3 from each hat. No defensive coordinator could prepare for that. In the superbowl, since there are two weeks to prepare, he could have 6 different plays for the second half.
Excellence of execution. 
Grave Digger posted:CAP was pointing out the SF Read Option as a "surprise" we have seen recently, which I disagree that it was a surprise. That was a preparation failure by Capers and his staff, not a surprise. The tape was there, they just didn't prepare for it.
The first definition of surprise "an unexpected or astonishing event, fact, or thing."
Again, Dom Capers statement "admitted the 49ers ran more of it than they expected."
Most people would agree that "more than they expected" is pretty much the same as saying "unexpected", but your point stands.
Trying something different is a fool's errand. Just keep doing the same thing that hasn't worked all that well for 20 games. Eventually they'll get it. Maybe another 12-16 games? McCarthy just needs some old timey boots in the ass!
BleacherReport (Jason Cole) rumor that the Packers front office is taking QB Aaron Rodgers‘ criticism of the team’s lack of energy this past weekend against the Colts “very seriously” as they consider how to fix their current issues.
For this to be true, Favre would have to be in charge.
ChilliJon posted:Hungry5 posted:CJ, don't think it's about primary, still think it's communication between QB and WR. He throws a go while Jordy stops for a back shoulder. 2 vets with a lot of time together, not on the same page, hell that's different books.
Question is how many different books is everyone reading?
Rodgers read Cosmos in the first half and The Grand Design in the 2nd half.
Nelson is reading Twain.
Janis is reading See Dick Run.
McCarthy is reading The Cat In The Hat With His Head Up His Ass.
Capers is reading Knute Rockne All American.
Being at the game, there were guys open on almost every play. I have endzone seats 40 rows up. You can see the plays develop. Rodgers always seems to be waiting for something that isn't there. He throws to the left to Rodgers and Adams is open over the middle. All the bombs away plays don't make sense. Whatever happened to taking what the defense gives you? Rodgers running for 5 yards on 3 and 10 in the 3rd quarter should have put him on the bench. They did not need a FG at that point.
CAPackFan95 posted:Trying something different is a fool's errand. Just keep doing the same thing that hasn't worked all that well for 20 games. Eventually they'll get it. Maybe another 12-16 games? McCarthy just needs some old timey boots in the ass!
I think what this team needs is another fullback
Oh good, they signed Joe K. off the practice squad.
Grave Digger posted:
Hang in there!
Just keep doing the same thing over and over. Eventually, they'll agree with you.
CAPackFan95 posted:some old timey boots in the ass!
Grave Digger posted:Jesus dude, we just disagree....
There ain't no good guy; there ain't no bad guy
Grave Digger posted:Jesus dude, we just disagree....
Ok!
Also - LANGUAGE!!!
Fedya posted:Grave Digger posted:Jesus dude, we just disagree....
There ain't no good guy; there ain't no bad guy
Damn it, my first thought was the same as Fedya's! :-)
