Not looking for the typical MM has to go BS... I think most of us have reached that conclusion in one form or another. Admittedly, I don't follow football as closely as I used to. With that said... "FIRE MM," but who are legitimate candidates to replace him?
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Capers.
I thought, when Thompson took over in '05, that he did little to help Sherman and that team with some of his moves. I also wondered if he did so as part of his analysis of Sherman the coach. How a leader functions in adversity is important in the review process. Could it be that Thompson was ready to pull the trigger on Hoyer and McCarthy convinced him that they were good with Hundley? Sticking with Hundley at that point and where they've gone since might cement McCarthy's future.
And yes, Thompson drafted Hundley, but it was 5th rounder - where's the development? Where's McCarthy's understanding of what they have with Hundley?
The lack of read-option today is mind-boggling.
If it actually happens I hope it isn't a retread parade.
Players get tired of the same ol’ same ol’.......
They'd certainly get something different if Goldie were the head coach, but I'd be frightened for them.
Well clearly this thread has lost it's gusto. 
Hungry5 posted:Capers.
Hue Jackson may be available
The lack of read-option today is mind-boggling.
This!
Wow, a thread started by a guy that was calling for MM to be ****canned around 2009 or 2010. Had Bill Cowher as his ****ing picture while posting.
The same Bill Cowher that hired Dom Capers.
A true x4 dum****.
I'm thinking something has to change but I'll say this: MM put all his eggs in with Hundley and instead of bringing in another guy he changed the offense just enough to squeak out some wins. If the defense was worth a crap the Pack would be the top wildcard team at the moment.
MM and staff aren't going anywhere after today. Rodgers is back to earn their checks for them.
Brak posted:Wow, a thread started by a guy that was calling for MM to be ****canned around 2009 or 2010. Had Bill Cowher as his ****ing picture while posting.
The same Bill Cowher that hired Dom Capers.
A true x4 dum****.
Good to hear from you Brak. Send my best to the family over the holiday season.
Merry Christmas, Pakrz!
How about me, antiworst, brak and pakrz hug this all out?
MM is tough to figure out. On the 1st drive we not only fake punt but also go for it on 4th down. Then in the 4th quarter with 5 minutes and 2 TO left we punt. I thought there was no way we'd ever get the ball back. On 3rd and 1 we throw a 15 yard pass that Hundley has no chance of completing. And what was the play call on 4th down down near the ten yard line? Did Williams go the rong way or did Hundley go the rong way? Way too many offensive mistakes but a win is still a win.
Hundley's mistake, at least that is what he said in his post game presser. Williams likely would've walked into the EZ with Jordy in front blocking.
I think they'll go defense-as much as I dislike the Patriots- I think Matt Patricia and Mike Vrabel would get consideration.
WTF are you guys talking about .....MM is going no where unless he opts to.
The only place MM would probably leave for is to Pitt, and they aren't getting rid of Tomlin any time soon. TT nor Murphy are going to jettison MM.
This is the 2nd time the Packers have lost Rodgers for an extended period.
Both times it's become crystal clear the amount of poor coaching that occurs on the Packer sideline.
I have a couple minor issues with MM.
I have 1 major issue with MM
Are other teams beating down the door to poach MM's staff? No?? Hmmmmm.....Wonder why that is.....
MM is fine. Getting rid of him solves nothing & probably hurts more than it helps...
His staff on the other hand.....
Many times I have spoken up that MM's tenure in GB is overdue for an end. I still think this is true, but he has been able to somehow pull the teams and staff together and get his teams into the playoffs. But after those achievements, the Packers have had some mighty big flops...the Seattle loss was an epic collapse and MM has to take as much responsibility for that debacle as any player did.
Today was a prime example of why I think the Packers need some new blood on the sideline or if anywhere, up in the coaches box. I thought the Packers seemed flat, out-determined and poorly prepared. Despite the good opening drive, the D just frittered away any momentum and then the offense mailed it in too until the 4th quarter. Surprisingly then the offense bounced back and the D came to life. But, we are talking about the hapless Browns. The Packers should have won this game easily by 10 or more. So IMO, MM did not have this team ready. And certainly, the D was not ready at all.
I think Capers has to retire. Then I would like to see Kevin Greene as DC. I think we have some talent on this team, but it is underutilized.
As for HC, it would have to be someone that could work and coach with Rodgers. Not sure who could fit that order?
The offense certainly seemed to be more productive and creative when Philbin was the OC. We also lost Ben McAdoo and Jagodjinski. The coaches on offense were raided and assistants were promoted, possibly to their levels of incompetence. The Peter principal could explain our offense's problems, I might not be correct but it's always something that I have pondered.
I'm not aware of anyone from the Defensive side of the ball that was stolen or even courted. We did promote Moss to keep him although I've never understood why.
The Front office has been brutally raped of talent but it keeps ticking along and there always seems to be someone worth promoting. Is our talent getting worse?
My main point was Philbin seemed to be a better play caller than MM, it seemed like no team could zero in on what we were doing, now days it seems like they all seem to know what we're doing, especially when 12 isn't in the game.
I like MM as HC, but not as the play caller. In house play calling options have been much worse.
Just some observations from a slow witted, stocky, bald man.
GBP1 posted:As for HC, it would have to be someone that could work and coach with Rodgers. Not sure who could fit that order?
IF, and I don't see it happening, TT would move on from MM, I actually think an offensive "guru"/minded HC is not necessary at this point of Rodger's career.
I'd much rather see a defensive guy as HC and transform the team. I can only imagine what Rodgers would do with a defense like the Jag's, Vikes, Steelers or Ravens (before injuries started piling up) typically have.
Today, Rodgers was essentially coaching MM to coach #7 what to do and how to shift the OL on the game tying drive. You can just see his knowledge of the game and how to recognize defenses is at a point where he's essentially an offensive coordinator who happens to play QB.
Reminds me much of how Peyton Manning was at about the same age. Not saying Rodgers doesn't need an OC or QB coach who knows what he's doing but I just think at this stage of his career, he'd much rather have a HC who knows how to develop a real defense.
His job will always be safe as long as TT is in charge.
FLPACKER posted:WTF are you guys talking about .....MM is going no where unless he opts to.
Exactly. I know I am in the minority here but I don't think that MM suddenly has forgotten how to coach. What I think hamstrings him is the defense and team health. With the total lack of defense this leads to him having to make more "aggressive" calls that sometimes don't work. I will always maintain that until they make a real effort to fix this defense they will be short of where they really should be.
How about 12 as OC/Player/Assistant Head Coach? Oh wait, that is already in place as we saw yesterday.
What does C-Boy want? Complete defensive staff housecleaning and Wolf appointed GM with TT is the proverbial 'executive consultant' role.
packerboi posted:GBP1 posted:As for HC, it would have to be someone that could work and coach with Rodgers. Not sure who could fit that order?
IF, and I don't see it happening, TT would move on from MM, I actually think an offensive "guru"/minded HC is not necessary at this point of Rodger's career.
I'd much rather see a defensive guy as HC and transform the team. I can only imagine what Rodgers would do with a defense like the Jag's, Vikes, Steelers or Ravens (before injuries started piling up) typically have.
Today, Rodgers was essentially coaching MM to coach #7 what to do and how to shift the OL on the game tying drive. You can just see his knowledge of the game and how to recognize defenses is at a point where he's essentially an offensive coordinator who happens to play QB.
Reminds me much of how Peyton Manning was at about the same age. Not saying Rodgers doesn't need an OC or QB coach who knows what he's doing but I just think at this stage of his career, he'd much rather have a HC who knows how to develop a real defense.
Agreed x 100. I saw as much coaching out of Rodgers as MM.
MM is a good coach, lots have teams are looking for a good coach, some for years.
The grass is not always greener.
The Heckler posted:FLPACKER posted:WTF are you guys talking about .....MM is going no where unless he opts to.
Exactly. I know I am in the minority here but I don't think that MM suddenly has forgotten how to coach. What I think hamstrings him is the defense and team health. With the total lack of defense this leads to him having to make more "aggressive" calls that sometimes don't work. I will always maintain that until they make a real effort to fix this defense they will be short of where they really should be.
Which would be reliant on a good DC and MM won't do it.
MM IS the problem. He has Shermanitis.
Dom's defense seems to work when they have corners that can play press coverage. On the CM3-induced Kizer moonball play, Randall smothered Josh Gordon off the line and didn't let him separate. Compare that to the Antonio Brown 10 yard catch on Pittsburgh's winning drive where the CB played 10 yards off. The key is the jam off the line.
So MM sees this and stays with Dom and they figure they just have to get the right CB.
I don't want my head coach coaching his QB during the game. My head coach at that point is a game manager who has to take the bigger view (and watch his D fritter away the game). His QB coaching on the finer points should be done by his QB coach and him during the week. Rodgers did exactly as I would want my injured starter to do: tell his backup how best to get the job done if he isn't healthy enough to do it himself.
I think MM is a good coach who has Shermanitis, as someone put it, when it comes to his assistants. I don't think he has forgotten how to coach at all. But he does let his assistants run too much and stay too long when it's obvious they should be replaced (Dom).
MM isn't going anywhere because per Demovsky, TT isn't going anywhere. And TT loves him some Sons of the Monongahela and all the P'burgh 'Cho that comes with it.
The tackling vs the Browns was as bad as it's ever been. Maybe Compers has them in the wrong positions...or maybe they've just drafted a bunch of non-tackling turds.
Clearly, we'll get that corrected going forward.
One thing you cannot argue with is MM's scripting of plays. His scripted plays are executed and really successful. In the games Hundley has started, first-drive endings look like this: NO (TD), Detroit (38-yard FG blocked), Chicago (FG), Baltimore (punt), Pitt (TD), TB (FG), Cleve (TD). Yes, you could argue the Pitt and Clevel TDs came from blown coverage but they were recognized and taken advantage of.
If you go back to the first drives of AR12, they look like this: Seattle (interception), ATL (TD), CIN (TD), Chicago (TD), Dallas (TD), MN (punt).
Overall, GB has scored on nine opening drives in 13 games, and it could have easily been 10 opening drives if the 38-yarder doesn't get blocked in Detroit.
MM must have something going for him with that kind of production, even with a backup.
Yup, he's super doooooper for the first 4 minutes of a game.
Yes, MM is putting his team in a good position on first drives. Our D, not so much. Seattle (punt), ATL (TD), CIN (TD), Dallas (TD), Chi (fumble rec), MN (punt), NO (int), Det (TD, drive immediately after GB scored), Chi (punt), Balt (punt), Pitt (TD), TB (TD), Cleve (TD immed after GB TD).
Totals by the D: four punts on first drives; five TDs on first drive of the game; two TDs on first drives immediately after GB scores; and two turnovers.
So, in five games MM is facing being down by 7 before even touching the ball. On two occasions he has seen his team get ahead only to watch the other team score immediately after. Only in six games (less than half) has the D held on opponents' first drives.
That's ugly.
Yet, somehow, Dom is an "outstanding football coach."
Coaches coach. Players play. Great leaders leverage the strengths of their people and then puts them in position(s) to succeed.
