MM

Dom Capers certainly has done great things in his career and if he retired today, he'd retire as one of the better defensive coordinators the league has ever seen. 

That said, I don't think it's any great leap to say that the players in GB have tuned him out a bit and maybe Dom isn't the guy that can get the best out of this current crop of guys.  I think it's time for a fresh look there.

As for McCarthy, I think he's okay, but when you watch the Pack without Rodgers, you realize that Rodgers is much more responsible for McCarthy's success than the other way around.  Aaron Rodgers would make a lot of coaches look much better than they do right at this moment, and McCarthy just happens to be the lucky guy that hit the lottery. 

My opinion is Capers dug MM's grave.
Hundley is shoveling the dirt on top.

There's a lot to like about his coaching abilities; there's just as many to dislike.
I think he would make a much better OC than a HC, where he wouldn't have the administrative responsibilities to deal with. He also tends to be a micro-manager, and it's detrimental to both him and the assistant coaches in the long run. In any case, we saw the results when he tried to delegate some responsibilities before, and he's not likely to change his ways, so if it requires a new broom to sweep away this constant mess, bring it on.

What "great things" has Dom done as a defensive coordinator?

heyward posted:

What "great things" has Dom done as a defensive coordinator?

 

Nothing without Woodson

Timmy! posted:

, if it requires a new broom to sweep away this constant mess, bring it on.

"Constant mess"? MM currently has the 3rd best win % of any active NFL coach.... the majority of NFL franchises would love to have our "constant mess" 

FLPACKER posted:

Timmy! posted:

, if it requires a new broom to sweep away this constant mess, bring it on.

"Constant mess"? MM currently has the 3rd best win % of any active NFL coach.... the majority of NFL franchises would love to have our "constant mess" 

On Rodger's back...

I think he's a good nuts and bolts coach, but lacks the ability to play winning chess against other coaches and manage clock & challenges.

Mc's best days were when Philbin was calling plays.

bvan posted:

FLPACKER posted:

Timmy! posted:

, if it requires a new broom to sweep away this constant mess, bring it on.

"Constant mess"? MM currently has the 3rd best win % of any active NFL coach.... the majority of NFL franchises would love to have our "constant mess" 

On Rodger's back...

I think he's a good nuts and bolts coach, but lacks the ability to play winning chess against other coaches and manage clock & challenges.

Mc's best days were when Philbin was calling plays.

Also, not coincidentally when the defense had Woodson and the following guys playing well: BJ Raji, CM3, Desmond Bishop, Ryan Pickett, Tramon Williams, Nick Collins, and Cullen Jenkins. Sam Shields was the THIRD CB. 

Having a great defense changes how you do everything. 

Also don't forget that the 2010 Super Bowl team had the defense stop the opposing team on the final drive in 4 of their last 5 games. 

1. The season finale that they had to win ended on an interception near the red zone when Chicago was driving to tie. 

2. The Eagles playoff game ended when Tramon picked off a pass in the end zone with the Eagles down 5. 

3. The Bears NFC championship game ended with Sam Shields picking off a pass on the final drive with the Bears driving to tie. Not to mention the Raji pick 6. 

4. The Super Bowl ended with Tramon breaking up a pass on 4th down when Pittsburgh had the ball with a chance to win. Not to mention the Collins pick 6. 

Even the Falcons blowout was blown open when Tramon had a pick 6 to end the first half. 

FLPACKER posted: 

"Constant mess"? MM currently has the 3rd best win % of any active NFL coach.... the majority of NFL franchises would love to have our "constant mess" 

Those are fair and valid points, FL.
What I had in mind by constant mess is losing at least one critical game each year that keeps us from having HFA. Regular, if not frequent, slaughtering by opposing teams with potent offenses. Impotent teams looking like the 2000 Rams against us. Playoff losses.
Mind-numbing play calls and clock management. The stubbornness of "we do what we do".  WR struggles. RB struggles. No apparent accountability.

MM is a very good, if not great, coach, and is deserving of accolades and respect.
Perhaps I'm being unfair, but I expect having more to show for his time here. At the least, I think we should be the dominant team in the NFC much like the Pats in the AFC, instead of fighting week in/week out to make the playoffs only to suffer a heart-breaking loss a week or 2 later.

Give me MM and add Marvin Lewis, because I don’t see him surviving, to run the defense after Compers is gone. 

Timmy! posted:

FLPACKER posted: 

"Constant mess"? MM currently has the 3rd best win % of any active NFL coach.... the majority of NFL franchises would love to have our "constant mess" 

I think we should be the dominant team in the NFC much like the Pats in the AFC, instead of fighting week in/week out to make the playoffs only to suffer a heart-breaking loss a week or 2 later.

Give me the name of the team who has been more dominate in the NFC over the last 10 years other than the Packers. 

If Championships are your gauge, it would be the Giants. Seattle has two Super Bowl appearances in that time period. If you are using regular season success as your gauge(with post season disappointment being overlooked) you are a Viking fan

Seattle.
I'll concede that the Packers were as dominant as anyone from '07 to '11. 
But from '12 through '16, the edge goes to Seattle. 

Saying NYG have been the dominant team over last decade is like saying Eli has been the dominant QB.

MM is a great leader.  We've seen his teams go through a lot of adversity, dating way back to the Brent saga, and they have always banded together.  

I view him as a below average offensive mind.  There is not much innovative thought going on.  

His play calling, while we all like to bitch about it, is probably about average if not slightly above average.   I'm sure every fan of every team, save for the MassHoles, think they can play call better than the current coach.  

His in game management has been atrocious in my opinion.  

So what are we really losing if we move to a Defensive minded head coach?   If MM was willing to replace Dom, I'd say we should stick with him, but he's not.

bvan posted:

FLPACKER posted:

Timmy! posted:

, if it requires a new broom to sweep away this constant mess, bring it on.

"Constant mess"? MM currently has the 3rd best win % of any active NFL coach.... the majority of NFL franchises would love to have our "constant mess" 

Mc's best days were when Philbin was calling plays.

This is not true.  Philbin never called plays.

Brak posted:

bvan posted:

FLPACKER posted:

Timmy! posted:

, if it requires a new broom to sweep away this constant mess, bring it on.

"Constant mess"? MM currently has the 3rd best win % of any active NFL coach.... the majority of NFL franchises would love to have our "constant mess" 

Mc's best days were when Philbin was calling plays.

This is not true.  Philbin never called plays.

I sit corrected!
Only found this info...
In 2003, Philbin joined the Green Bay Packers coaching staff. He spent nine years in Green Bay. During his tenure as offensive coordinator (2007–2011), the Packers offense ranked in the top 10 in the NFL for points scored and total yards every year, including their Super Bowl season.

Philbin's responsibility was 3rd down installs each week, and he assisted with the OL.

He has been missed.

YATittle posted:

He has been missed.

Bless where his hear is.

A little early to start drinkin?  

Nevermind.  Definitely not too early.

YATittle posted:

He has been missed.

I strongly dispute that claim.  Philbin, Macadoo should be giving Rodgers a cut of their paychecks.

Save on the cap, just pay him a 3rd of every coach's salary.

bvan posted:

Brak posted:

bvan posted:

FLPACKER posted:

Timmy! posted:

, if it requires a new broom to sweep away this constant mess, bring it on.

"Constant mess"? MM currently has the 3rd best win % of any active NFL coach.... the majority of NFL franchises would love to have our "constant mess" 

Mc's best days were when Philbin was calling plays.

This is not true.  Philbin never called plays.

I sit corrected!
Only found this info...
In 2003, Philbin joined the Green Bay Packers coaching staff. He spent nine years in Green Bay. During his tenure as offensive coordinator (2007–2011), the Packers offense ranked in the top 10 in the NFL for points scored and total yards every year, including their Super Bowl season.

Also, Joe Philbin's forte was the O-line and running game design. Both under Sherman and McCarthy. MM has always controlled the passing aspects of the offense except during the Clements' play calling debacle.

IMO Philbin hasn't been missed too much especially since former x4 whipping boy James Campen has turned into a rather exemplary O-Line coach.

Good point about Campen. After being whipping boy he has improved & should be recognized. 

Testament to Campen: Lane Taylor, Lindsley, McCray, etc. OL loses two top guys in Sitton and Lang and it hardly misses a beat. 

Cogbot.

This Campen talk reminds me of my favorite x4 meme.   ProBowler

packerboi posted

 

Today, Rodgers was essentially coaching MM to coach #7 what to do and how to shift the OL on the game tying drive. You can just see his knowledge of the game and how to recognize defenses is at a point where he's essentially an offensive coordinator who happens to play QB.

 

I noticed that too.  

MichiganPacker2 posted:

bvan posted:

FLPACKER posted:

Timmy! posted:

, if it requires a new broom to sweep away this constant mess, bring it on.

"Constant mess"? MM currently has the 3rd best win % of any active NFL coach.... the majority of NFL franchises would love to have our "constant mess" 

On Rodger's back...

I think he's a good nuts and bolts coach, but lacks the ability to play winning chess against other coaches and manage clock & challenges.

Mc's best days were when Philbin was calling plays.

Also, not coincidentally when the defense had Woodson and the following guys playing well: BJ Raji, CM3, Desmond Bishop, Ryan Pickett, Tramon Williams, Nick Collins, and Cullen Jenkins. Sam Shields was the THIRD CB. 

Having a great defense changes how you do everything. 

I think the Packers are an excellent example that ultimately it is the defense that wins championships.  I have seen the Packers win the Super Bowl twice and what was the one thing they had both times?  VERY good defenses.  Sure the offense was very good but the defense excellent.  

I still say that if they can fix this defense we will definitely have different thoughts about MM.  There is talent on that side of the ball but it is so badly misused.  Sure MM has benefitted from #12 but the D still needs to stop someone.

As for MM, I think that if he would happen to get fired I think if he wanted to coach again he would be unemployed for about 24 hours.

Only 3 Super Bowl winners have not had defenses in the top 20 over the past two decades.  2009 Saints, 2006 Colts and yes, 2011 Giants (god damn it).

I think the 2011 Giants is a bit deceiving.  Their D really came on late in the year and then definitely in the playoffs.  They were a rare D that could get pressure with 4 and flood the passing lanes and press/man with everyone else.  Wasn't our D also historically bad that year but our offense made up for it.  Hard to hate NYG for that.  

So more to your point, 2 teams with dominant O's.

The O had the look of that kind of potential earlier this year when everyone thought our 2 TE's were going to set the world on fire as well as 88 being a very effective wild card.  Best laid plans...

Yeah, I was going to say that Giants D was pretty outstanding.  I also remember the Colts secondary becoming a pick machine towards the end of the season.  Saints, power offense.

High powered offenses can often make anemic defenses play better - giving them opportunities. 

Dom's D was young to start the season, and has gotten younger now. Time to simplify. They only need to stop 1 drive a game, the last one. 

Hungry5 posted:

High powered offenses can often make anemic defenses play better - giving them opportunities. 

Dom's D was young to start the season, and has gotten younger now. Time to simplify. They only need to stop 1 drive a game, the last one. 

That's asking too much of Dom's boys. Now that Rodgers is back, I say we ask for the 1-1-1 defense. 1 sack, 1 turnover, 1 touchdown of less than 50 yards per game. 

That should do it. 3-0 baby!