Official 2013 NFL Draft Thread

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Originally posted by Jaymo:

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Originally posted by Pakrz:

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Originally posted by Jaymo:

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Originally posted by 18c3v:
Draft pick value calculator says the Vikings really got soaked on their trade.

Historical value of the picks they gave up is worth 159% of the value of pick #29.

That is as outdated as the man who came up with it. Nobody with an ounce of football sense refers to that when moving up or down in the draft anymore.

I'm pretty sure somebody is going to use google to shove that comment up your ass.

Well, there ya go! As long as it's on the internet!

The trade value calculator is based on the average historical value of players drafted at a given part of the draft. It is well constructed. If you are thinking of the Jimmy Johnson trade value calculator, then I understand why you would call it outdated. By the way, the Vikings did much better on the outdated Jimmy Johnson version, only giving up 101% of the value of the 29th pick.

Once again, I agree with Tschmack....The Vikings lack some depth and have a mediocre QB at best. Although I hope Ponder "gets it" I have my doubts....but as stated earlier, if you build through the draft, thats the formula that works but its going to take a little time. This team is finally starting to shed the disaster that was built by the Chilli-dipper. Its rough going now, but if they stay the course, maybe they finally get it right....only time will tell.

I think the Vikes over achieved last season and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if they play a better brand of football with more balance but actually take a step back. Last years picks along with this years picks are really only laying the foundation. They are not some kind of Super Bowl bound team next season, but the steps they are taking are at least in the right direction.

quote:

Originally posted by OkinawaMarine:
FWIW, I believe the Vikes did it the right way. Spielman really had a good draft last year and has followed it up with what looks to be another decent draft (so far) this year. Getting value in the 1st round usually isn't too hard. There are busts of course (Troy Williamson and Tony Mandarich for example) but, for the most part, 1st round picks do hang around for awhile.

I think the trade was asinine given your QB situation. All those picks for a WR with nobody to throw him the ball.

I also think it's terrible given the value you get on WR in later rounds. Cobb, Jennings, and Nelson were all 2nd round picks. James Jones was a 3rd rounder.

There is just no reason to give up that many picks (and potential good players) for one WR when you have Ponder throwing him the ball.

Not to mention Driver who was a 7th round pick.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaymo:

So you don't build through the draft? You draft to make an immediate push for a championship?

LOL....you will spin it any way you have to.


The Vikings still have 7 total picks in the draft and got three guys in the first round.
...
Drafted three guys in the first round and "traded away the future". LOL

The Vikings gave up WAY too much. Every other trade was dirt cheap. This when only two receivers were off the board. There's a reason why the Patriots are successful consistently and teh Vikings are not.

The Vikings have no depth, which those extra picks would help provide. Great, three shiny first-rounders but any meaningful injuries and they're toast. Floyd and Rhodes were fine picks, they got robbed on Patterson. They only have three roster-worthy receivers, one starting linebacker, they can finally field a dime defensive backfield so long as everyone stays healthy (and out of jail Chris Cook) and no starting-caliber NT. Add to that Jared Allen is likely gone after this year also.

RE: Vikes - Why did Floyd fall? Some have said it's his short arms... that said, he should work out in the long run. Rhodes was a no-brainer. Now to Patterson, he is a 2nd rounder that MIN paid A LOT for. Not a good value selection based on their need for quality depth. Getting picked in the 1st round does not make him a 1st round talent.

The whole article is good but this is a juicy bit.

Trade value analysis

Minnesota acquires the 29th overall pick from New England for the 52nd, 83rd, 102nd, and 229th picks.
Quantitative winner: New England (59.5 percent more in return)
Real-life winner: New England

Note the dramatic gulf between what Stuart's model thought of the difference in value across the first four trades and what it thought of this one. The Patriots, simply put, took the Vikings to the cleaners. It's incredible that Bill Belichick seems to pull this off every year, but it's even more impressive in this draft. Chase's model estimates, historically, that the 29th overall pick has delivered about 40 percent more value than the 52nd overall pick during their first five seasons in the league. That's really not that much, and in a flat draft like this year's, it's undoubtedly a smaller figure, probably closer to 10 percent or so. For that tiny chance of getting a better player, the Vikings gave up third- and fourth-round picks that could end up producing valuable contributors. In 2007, the 83rd pick delivered Charles Johnson, who became a double-digit pass rusher and one of the highest-paid players in football. The 102nd pick that year was Brian Robison, who himself has 30 sacks over six years in the league. The Patriots aren't getting worthless picks here.

The Vikings made this move to get Cordarrelle Patterson, which seems shortsighted considering the bevy of second-tier wideouts still left on the market. They could have waited through the end of the first round and the top of the second round, where few teams need wideouts, before pouncing in the middle of the second round. That might only have cost them a fifth-round pick or so. In any case, it took what had been an excellent Vikings draft and ruined their night. And while it might not have been the most exciting return for Patriots fans, it was very clearly the right move to make.

Agree on Floyd and Rhodes. They could both be special players. They got good value with both those picks. But you can't give up 4 picks for a WR in Rd 1 that's played 1 year of D1 football. More than a few scouts aren't sure he's the best WR on his own team.

Another question. Spielman was in a presser talking about Floyd and Rhodes when he was yanked out and had to return to the draft room for the potential trade with NE.

WTF was he doing in a presser while they were dangling 4 picks in an attempt to jump back into round 1? Did he make the offer? Was it someone else? Have to assume that 4 pick offer went to more than just NE. Maybe Houston and Baltimore as well. I just found it odd he would be conducting a press conference.

Patterson has talent, but giving up four picks for someone that raw, who only started 1-year in a BCS conference, and has been criticized for not running crisp routes and possible intelligence concerns...? I think he'd have been there at 52.

And even if he wasn't there at 52, the dropoff didn't warrant the cost. The Vikings gomers are in total spin mode saying they 'really didn't give up more than a 3rd because they had the "extra" picks"'. Hey idots, the reason they had those extra picks was to fill the myriad holes on the team.

@NFL_ATL
Geno Smith will stay in NYC. Let's not bloviate on this story, cool?


@JayGlazer:
Some teams had Geno as the 5th best QB on their board.



Does he pose with whoever announces the pick with a #3 jersey when picked in the 3rd round?

Oh wow. So it was Wilf doing the "negotiating". Who else would have or could have had that authority with Spielman & Leslie Frazier both in press conferences?

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:
They could have waited through the end of the first round and the top of the second round, where few teams need wideouts, before pouncing in the middle of the second round.

I know it's the Vikings, but when I see a move like this I just assume that they wanted the player, and they had knowledge that he was going to get picked by some team if they didn't trade up in front of said team.

No question the queens got absolutely hosed on the trade and gave up WAY too much. Belichek with a Speilman fleecing there to the likes of which I can't recall seeing for years. Floyd is interesting as one of the commentators said teams were backing off because he had 4.5 sacks in his entire career if I heard him right.

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Originally posted by OkinawaMarine:


Sure, you can dog the Vikes about giving up too much, and maybe thats true, but you cannot deny they picked up 3 quality guys, who, if they pan out, will be impact players. I like what Spielman has done...I hope it works out. We still have 5 picks left. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to move up into the 2nd or 3rd round and grab another guy.

The picks were good picks. Great value on Floyd and Rhodes appears to be a solid pick at the position. The problem is dropping that many picks on a WR also puts a damper on the develop part of draft and develop. You're developing your team, not just one player and because of it you've shorted your resources as well as committing more dollars to three players. The new CBA makes it less of a hit overall but the thing that gets me is the dropping that amount of resources on a WR. I don't care how good he could be, you don't have a QB, it's a waste.

WR are talent vacuums.

It's silly to say Spielman wants to follow a draft and develop format. He simply isn't. He's probably one of the better GMs the Vagines have had in awhile but it's going to bite him in the ass when it comes to talent drain. If all three of these picks become effective starters for the Vagines it will be a really good draft but like I said, every team/fan thinks a 1st rounder is a starter. Rhodes is a proven commodity but both Floyd and Pattersen have the "what could be" mantra stuck on them.

Basically, the picks were solid but this isn't draft and develop.

5th best QB sounds about right to me. I have not been impressed with Geno Smith at all. That opinion was reinforced hearing him talk on Jon Gruden's QB show.

The Vikes will regret giving up so much for CP. Very talented player who doesn't have a lot going on between the ears. Greg Jennings will be a good mentor for him, but I don't think CP will ever be a guy who can carry the load for his team. He shines when someone else is the featured player (like Justin Hunter) and he can take advantage of the fact that he's not getting the other teams best cover guy. He's dangerous with the ball in his hands though, very good kick returner.

NFL Network has become Viking central this morning

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
What The Champ doesn't mention is they traded away their best receiver (Harvin)

Chalk that trade as a plus for the vikings. It was a good move.

I think the team that lands Matt Barkley will get a steal.

The vikings suck, ergo, they aren't used to drafting this late in the rounds. This is uncharted territory for that bunch

Of the guys they picked, which one is Troy Williamson and which one is Erasmus James ?

The vikes have no choice but to "go for it" again. Petersons' days of being special are numbered and they have to try and make a run right now before he hits his inevitable decline. He's 28, had a major knee injury and plays with reckless abandon - that gives them 2-3 seasons of AD-like performance at best

Jennings has a couple years left and all 4 of their DL are free agents after this season. Its a purple time bomb going tic tic tic

Draft and Develop works over the long run, but ya gotta have a QB

Fortunately, those purple chokers are not familiar with the most important position in making a Super Bowl run...they were dumb enough to think Bert was the answer and they are are still foolish enough to think Ponder/Cassel is a possibility.
It doesn't matter who they draft or pick up, they aren't going anywhere until they fix that spot. And were they just a bit more patient and savvy, they could have used some of the (3) first rounders this year to net more picks in 2014 when the QB class looks much better.
But now they can't trade up next year because no team can afford to give away 2 entire drafts in a row. So not only did they make their bed for 2013, they also impacted 2014 as well

4 picks for a WR makes no sense at all regardless of which chart you use. Its just not a premium position; the WR touches the ball 10 times per game at most and its a waste of precious resources for not nearly enough benefit

the vikings will continue to suck, it's what they do better than any franchise in NFL history. And for that we're grateful

Well, to be fair, another year of "offseason training" by AP will probably have him reporting to camp at about 325 pounds and running a 3.7 40, so I guess tossing a million picks at a project WR still makes sen... Wait, what?

Remember, the Vikings still have to develop these guys. DT's and CB's rarely come into the league ready to be pro bowlers. Who was the last guy the Vikings drafted that they really developed into a pro bowl player? AP came into the league as a pro bowler, so I'm not counting him. Guys like Winfield and Allen came to the Vikings as pro bowlers via free agency and trade. I mean who have they really drafted, and saw him slowly improve into a pro bowl caliber player? You just don't see that from this franchise and until i do, I'm not going to be too worried about these 3 first round picks.

At AP's rate of healing he may clone himself.

Would love to see Menelik Watson still be around when the Packers pick in the 2nd round but doubt he will be.

I doubt Watson makes it past Detroit.

Regardless, the Vikes have done pretty well as they picked up guys for three positions of need. Two, Rhodes and CP, should be better than who they have now. But, yup, they still don't have a QB. Ask any coach what a good QB does for you.

Like I'm telling all my Queen friends today, I don't get excited about our picks until a minimum of Day 2 and later because that's when TT finds a ton of value.

Maybe this guy would be worth a look just to bring back those old memories...wait...never mind...


Get Up Matt Suhey!

Chargers claimed ILB D.J. Smith off waivers from the Packers.
Nice pickup for rookie GM Tom Telesco. Smith, 24, has performed solidly and even flashed some playmaking ability (five PBUs, one INT, two sacks) across nine career starts while playing as an every-down inside 'backer in Green Bay's 3-4. The Packers cut him due to a failed physical after suffering a major injury last October. Even if Smith doesn't contribute in 2013, the Chargers could stash him on PUP or I.R. and have a good player for cheap in 2014. Apr 25 - 4:28 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6690/dj-smith

Some things stay consistent, the Vikings crapping the bed and, well, you know.
http://timesfour.com/eve/forum...21/m/8464059038/p/50

Tharold Simon was projected as a 4th or 5th round CB out of LSU. His hometown even planned a "Tharold Simon" day.

Tharold was arrested yesterday for public intimidation. In his hometown. He even played the "I own this town" card to the police.

Simon and Mathieu, making quite a pair, just like vinegar and water, with flower scent to spare.

Guys don't get to worked up by Jaymo he is really pretty funny when you look at his ridiculous posts. He doesn't seem to understand that its quite a gamble when they need help in so many areas and no depth.

He doesn't seem to understand they gave away 4 more picks they could have had so if this one busts its quite a loss.

He normally posts on a Vikings web site (http://rubechat.kfan.com/. I have never posted here but have read his posts for years.



18 posts • Page 1 of 1
"Vikings just traded away their future!!!"
by Jaymo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:54 am

Direct quote from several packler rubes after the Vikings traded back into the first to draft Corduroy Patterson.

You can't make it up.

If things stand pat for the rest of the draft, the packlers will come out with 8 picks and the Vikings will come out with 7.

But....yep.....


"The Vikings just traded away their future!!!!"



Not totally surprised by this. Total deuscher from the deuschery.

Jaymo

Posts: 19669
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:44 am
Points: 38860

Welcome mnpacker!

quote:

Originally posted by mnpacker:
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18 posts • Page 1 of 1
"Vikings just traded away their future!!!"
by Jaymo » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:54 am

Direct quote from several packler rubes after the Vikings traded back into the first to draft Corduroy Patterson.
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Posts: 19669
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:44 am
Points: 38860

Geeze, the trade gets even worse. They gave up four picks for some seasonal pants.

Now my feelings are hurt.

Best Pearl Jam song?

quote:

Originally posted by mnpacker:
Guys don't get to worked up by Jaymo he is really pretty funny when you look at his ridiculous posts.

Yeah, he's a ******* riot!

How about this guy in the second round tonight.

His Bio excpet for his injury in 2011 looks impressive.

RB-Giovani Bernard, 5-10/205

Whoever Ted takes is fine by me but this guy Brenard, NT Jenkins from Georgia, or WR Keenan Allen would be good. Take the center in round three.