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Brainwashed Boris posted:

Yeah. Same way I'm gun-shy of DL from FLA. St.

If you remember correctly....HaHa was a pro-bowler at one point before he decided to start "protecting this investment" by simply going through the motions on the gridiron.

The guess here is either some moronic team pays him big in FA (& regrets it) or HaHa retires. 

I'd also like a shot at Earl Thomas

 

You are right, of course. BPA. Always.
I was being facetious , but couldn't resist taking yet another dig at HHCD. I can understand experiencing a life-changing moment, but, ffs, retire if you've made a decision not to try anymore. Guys that will take full pay for half-assed efforts are selfish and disrespectful to their teammates and the team. He wouldn't have made the PB without them.
Actually, I'd like to know what 'transformed' him and if there are any similarities between he and Lacy. Their 'downfalls' were both dramatic and fairly sudden, but had different motivations (I'm guessing).

Concur on ET. I think he could flourish in GB.

Funny, but I could see GB taking a QB. Greater needs are elsewhere, but this year has shown that even Rodgers is being chased by Father Time. Unless he changes to get rid of the ball sooner and play sandlot less, he’s going to have more injuries. It’s always better to be one year too early than one year too late, and another QB may light a fire under Rodgers as well.

ChilliJon posted:

It’s not Graham’s fault GB has no idea how to use tight ends. 

Graham has been a lazy pile this year. But GB is a TE wasteland. 

Can you imagine Rob Gronkowski or Travis Kelce on this team? They'd be screaming to be traded because they weren't being used like they should--and all that with Aaron Rodgers as their QB.

Fandame posted:

Funny, but I could see GB taking a QB. Greater needs are elsewhere, but this year has shown that even Rodgers is being chased by Father Time. Unless he changes to get rid of the ball sooner and play sandlot less, he’s going to have more injuries. It’s always better to be one year too early than one year too late, and another QB may light a fire under Rodgers as well.

2fer.

I'd have zero issues with drafting a QB if he was that impressive.  I think drafting a QB just to draft a QB for an eventual replacement is still a bit premature simply due to all the other needs.  If the guy is the shit and would only benefit from getting a couple years experience under Rodgers, sign me up.  Wouldn't the rest of the league shit if they could pull off a 3rd HOF QB in a row?  It's a nice thought.

Last edited by Henry
ChilliJon posted:

It's not coincidence that some of the greatest offensive lines in NFL history played for the guy who's trophy is handed out every year. 

There's going to be a team that assembles a world class OL and breaks bread on defenses predicated to stopping a passing league. And that team will set records on time of possession while neutering edge rushing demons hell bent on getting upfield. 

What I'm trying to say is this. If Lombardi was coaching today he'd look at the NFL landscape and he'd build another seven blocks of granite and road grade the entire league underground while letting his QB collect a few of his namesake trophies. 

I would say that one team that sort of did what you were talking about was the 49ers in 2011-2013.  That team had a lot talent, but especially in the Offensive Line.  No, they didn't win the Super Bowl, but made it to the NFC Title game 3 years in a row and were one 4th and Goal conversion from winning it all.  They got to the NFC Title game with 2 different non-franchise QBs (Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick).

To summarize, I agree with you ChiliJon, the 49ers in the first 3 years under Harbaugh proved you can win big with that style even if you don't have a franchise QB.

Henry posted:
Fandame posted:

Funny, but I could see GB taking a QB. Greater needs are elsewhere, but this year has shown that even Rodgers is being chased by Father Time. Unless he changes to get rid of the ball sooner and play sandlot less, he’s going to have more injuries. It’s always better to be one year too early than one year too late, and another QB may light a fire under Rodgers as well.

2fer.

I'd have zero issues with drafting a QB if he was that impressive.  I think drafting a QB just to draft a QB for an eventual replacement is still a bit premature simply due to all the other needs.  If the guy is the shit and would only benefit from getting a couple years experience under Rodgers, sign me up.  Wouldn't the rest of the league shit if they could pull off a 3rd HOF QB in a row?  It's a nice thought.

Yup, that's my point. If the MO guy is that good, then pull the trigger and draft him, Rodgers or no Rodgers. I think today showed again why we may need a QB sooner than later. Missing throws and hurt again. I mean Rodgers is a HOFer, but he has to play smarter than he is now or he may not make it past next year much less to 40.

Henry posted:

Can't disagree.  If Rodgers continues on this path next year, which I believe he won't or at least hope, it's time for the Hadl discussion.

Oline, Oline and more Oline.

The Hadl discussion. You mean the guy that the Packers traded two 1s, two 2s, and a 3? The guy that threw 9 TDs and 29 INTs. 

Rodgers had a poor year for him. If you switched him for Trubisky tomorrow the Bears probably become Super Bowl favorites. 

I do agree with you - OL, OL, OL. No more thinking Jason Spriggs is even a stopgap NFL player. 

Rodgers opened the season by getting hurt on a freak play - but one where McCray got smoked. He spent much of the season running for his life. He used to  still be able to hit guys off-balance doing that, but he missed some of those this year. Maybe a lot of it is that he no longer trusts his protection. Get him and Aaron Jones an OL that is more than Bakh, two average guys (Linsley and Taylor) and any two stiffs. 

The real disappointment is that we somehow didn't win another Super Bowl when the OL had 4 Pro Bowl level guys on it in the early 2010s (Sitton, Lang, Bulaga, and Bakh). 

Beyond the 2 obvious glaring weaknesses (OL and S) the biggest change the next coach will have to address is the level of 4th quarter play from GB this year. 

GB was in position to win a lot of close Q4 games this year but they played some of their worst football when it mattered most. Rodgers. The OL. The playcalling. This team collectively imploded at the end of games. That has to change in 2019. 

El-Ka-Bong posted:

I'd love to start day 1 with a pass rusher, but after that a fat boy or two on offense won't hurt.  

I joked about using a second rounder on a wide out, but they might have to.  Our squad sucks balls outside of Adams.  

It would be nice to see a healthy unit of wrs to start camp, and remain healthy and intact into the season. A tight end to stretch the field might go further than drafting a wr. If we exclude Cobb, though, is Adams, Geronimo, EQ and MVS not a decent looking group provided they show they can grow into their roles? The size of those four guys really should at some point be a major advantage in a proper scheme. It seems to me AR needs stability and confidence with this group, not a revolving door of new guys they must get up to speed. My early vote is o-line in a major way, and then a proven pass rusher. Building up front on both sides should be of major importance if they really want to max out AR's remainder.

I think Geronimo is a #3 on his best day.  Problem is MVS and ESB are #3 on their best day.  I haven't seen a TE used correctly in GB in years, so I don't even imagine that is an option.   I love that we have some big WR, but what I really want is a fast one who runs good routes.  That is not MVS, not ESB and not Geronimo.  

MichiganPacker2 posted:
Henry posted:

Can't disagree.  If Rodgers continues on this path next year, which I believe he won't or at least hope, it's time for the Hadl discussion.

Oline, Oline and more Oline.

The Hadl discussion. You mean the guy that the Packers traded two 1s, two 2s, and a 3? The guy that threw 9 TDs and 29 INTs. 

Rodgers had a poor year for him. If you switched him for Trubisky tomorrow the Bears probably become Super Bowl favorites. 

I do agree with you - OL, OL, OL. No more thinking Jason Spriggs is even a stopgap NFL player. 

Rodgers opened the season by getting hurt on a freak play - but one where McCray got smoked. He spent much of the season running for his life. He used to  still be able to hit guys off-balance doing that, but he missed some of those this year. Maybe a lot of it is that he no longer trusts his protection. Get him and Aaron Jones an OL that is more than Bakh, two average guys (Linsley and Taylor) and any two stiffs. 

The real disappointment is that we somehow didn't win another Super Bowl when the OL had 4 Pro Bowl level guys on it in the early 2010s (Sitton, Lang, Bulaga, and Bakh). 

I blame Julius Peppers, AJ Hawk, Morgan Burnett and Brian Bostic. Not necessarily in that order.

YATittle posted:
MichiganPacker2 posted:
Henry posted:

Can't disagree.  If Rodgers continues on this path next year, which I believe he won't or at least hope, it's time for the Hadl discussion.

Oline, Oline and more Oline.

The Hadl discussion. You mean the guy that the Packers traded two 1s, two 2s, and a 3? The guy that threw 9 TDs and 29 INTs. 

Rodgers had a poor year for him. If you switched him for Trubisky tomorrow the Bears probably become Super Bowl favorites. 

I do agree with you - OL, OL, OL. No more thinking Jason Spriggs is even a stopgap NFL player. 

Rodgers opened the season by getting hurt on a freak play - but one where McCray got smoked. He spent much of the season running for his life. He used to  still be able to hit guys off-balance doing that, but he missed some of those this year. Maybe a lot of it is that he no longer trusts his protection. Get him and Aaron Jones an OL that is more than Bakh, two average guys (Linsley and Taylor) and any two stiffs. 

The real disappointment is that we somehow didn't win another Super Bowl when the OL had 4 Pro Bowl level guys on it in the early 2010s (Sitton, Lang, Bulaga, and Bakh). 

I blame Julius Peppers, AJ Hawk, Morgan Burnett and Brian Bostic. Not necessarily in that order.

Don't forget Ha Ha mistiming his jump on a hail mary 2 point conversion. 

LarseeBear posted:

2 out of the 1st 3 picks edge rushers. OL and TE the rest of the next 7. The rest whatever because I think we're solid in other areas. Then sign a FA punter because Zook ruined Scott.

Scott is fine. It's just you can find about 25 guys just like him every year as free agents. Drafting another OL guy in the 5th round to see if he might turn into a guy who could fill in for Bulaga instead of Spriggs would have been more worthwhile. 

Scott is 15th in the league in gross average, 11th in net. 

The next two weeks will be interesting from a draft position standpoint.  As of today I think GB would pick 11th but there are a lot of teams clustered at 5-9 so they could easily move into the top 6-10 picks with another loss or two. 

I understand some people are against tanking but they need to lose out to maximize the placement of their draft picks.  Winning one or even two of their final meaningless games could mean a huge shift in where they pick.  I don’t want another 15th overall pick.  Mark it 8 (or better) dude! 

Last edited by Tschmack
MichiganPacker2 posted:
Henry posted:

Can't disagree.  If Rodgers continues on this path next year, which I believe he won't or at least hope, it's time for the Hadl discussion.

Oline, Oline and more Oline.

The Hadl discussion. You mean the guy that the Packers traded two 1s, two 2s, and a 3? The guy that threw 9 TDs and 29 INTs. 

Rodgers had a poor year for him. If you switched him for Trubisky tomorrow the Bears probably become Super Bowl favorites. 

I do agree with you - OL, OL, OL. No more thinking Jason Spriggs is even a stopgap NFL player. 

Rodgers opened the season by getting hurt on a freak play - but one where McCray got smoked. He spent much of the season running for his life. He used to  still be able to hit guys off-balance doing that, but he missed some of those this year. Maybe a lot of it is that he no longer trusts his protection. Get him and Aaron Jones an OL that is more than Bakh, two average guys (Linsley and Taylor) and any two stiffs. 

The real disappointment is that we somehow didn't win another Super Bowl when the OL had 4 Pro Bowl level guys on it in the early 2010s (Sitton, Lang, Bulaga, and Bakh). 

If Rodgers continues on this path next year

If he continues to play poorly into next season with a new HC, more talent and everybody healed up, yes, I'd pull a reverse Hadl trade for him.

I don't anticipate this will occur by any measure because of everything you stated, which I also believe.  But the reality is if he's truly lost it, time to start thinking about a full rebuild and that's a lot of capital to play with.

Again, highly unlikely but a consideration if a complete worst case scenario emerges.

Last edited by Henry

I don’t think Rodgers is even tradeable. His contract pretty much ends that discussion. 

One impact player on the OL changes everything. It aligns the depth, it makes the team more capable of sustaining productivity in the event of injury... it’s all they need. And I am less concerned with the OT position as I am inside. Upgrade the Gs and you give the Ts a chance to survive. So draft and FA- get new OGs. 

Then pass rush. 

But I am not down on the WRs at all. Give these guys another offseason. This group could be great. 

And I’m with Boris- make a run at a veteran S. Earl Thomas if he can still run. Draft one to develop. 

OL, S, pass rush in the draft. 

I don't think I would even think about trading Aaron not yet and I don't think the Packers would ever do that  at this point.   Sure   I think he hasn't been typical AR but I think when he gets healthy,  they fix the OL and have better receivers he would be back to himself quickly.  

Put me in with Earl Thomas as well if he can still play.  To me he is the type of player with an attitude the defense needs. 

As for what I think are the top needs in the draft I would go OL (especially at RG and RT), safety, DE (need a pash rusher badly) LB, and WR/TE.    

I'm over the BPA approach.  If a guy is in range of where they have him on the board and it's been a need for a while, pick the guy.  I don't want to see 2 safeties and another CB in the first 2 rounds just because they may be slightly better than an Oline or LB prospect.  I have no problem with mid-round Oline simply because there has been a lot of success in general but BPA for this team is horseshit.  

Henry posted:

I'm over the BPA approach.  If a guy is in range of where they have him on the board and it's been a need for a while, pick the guy.  I don't want to see 2 safeties and another CB in the first 2 rounds just because they may be slightly better than an Oline or LB prospect.  I have no problem with mid-round Oline simply because there has been a lot of success in general but BPA for this team is horseshit.  

that's a fair comment.

Henry posted:

I'm over the BPA approach.  If a guy is in range of where they have him on the board and it's been a need for a while, pick the guy.  I don't want to see 2 safeties and another CB in the first 2 rounds just because they may be slightly better than an Oline or LB prospect.  I have no problem with mid-round Oline simply because there has been a lot of success in general but BPA for this team is horseshit.  

I agree to an extent, I think that's what Gute did this year drafting Alexander and Jackson. I think those are the guys he wanted, especially Jaire, but I do think there is something to be said for not overdrafting a player. That's not to say be so pedantic that you pass on a player at 11 because you don't think he deserves to go higher than 20, but if there's if no OT who looks like a Day 1 starter available in r1 then don't draft an OT just because you need one. It's not like GB is so stacked at any position (maybe DT) that we should be passing on the best player available in the draft, but I agree that we have to address multiple positions early regardless of who the top "value" might be. If his first draft is any indication, Gute seems to have a good feel for the board like TT did in terms who will take which players...he gambled Jaire would still be available after he traded our pick to NO just like TT gambled Lacy would still be available a few spots later.  

Grave Digger posted:
Henry posted:

I'm over the BPA approach.  If a guy is in range of where they have him on the board and it's been a need for a while, pick the guy.  I don't want to see 2 safeties and another CB in the first 2 rounds just because they may be slightly better than an Oline or LB prospect.  I have no problem with mid-round Oline simply because there has been a lot of success in general but BPA for this team is horseshit.  

I agree to an extent, I think that's what Gute did this year drafting Alexander and Jackson. I think those are the guys he wanted, especially Jaire, but I do think there is something to be said for not overdrafting a player. That's not to say be so pedantic that you pass on a player at 11 because you don't think he deserves to go higher than 20, but if there's if no OT who looks like a Day 1 starter available in r1 then don't draft an OT just because you need one. It's not like GB is so stacked at any position (maybe DT) that we should be passing on the best player available in the draft, but I agree that we have to address multiple positions early regardless of who the top "value" might be. If his first draft is any indication, Gute seems to have a good feel for the board like TT did in terms who will take which players...he gambled Jaire would still be available after he traded our pick to NO just like TT gambled Lacy would still be available a few spots later.  

Whoever said to overreach?  They went after CBs last year and got them.  They needed them.  I don't want to see any more ****ing shotgun draft approaches just because it MAY be BPA.  While Opie isn't horrible I bet a LB or olineman would've been a nice addition.  Of course it doesn't help to be ditched by the guy you draft.  

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