@GB-Brandon posted:

At 9 million with “Cutting Lowry” which makes it a net of about 5 million plus a 5th and shores up the D-Line I’d take Brockers cause we could still get Corey Davis with more roster maneuvering. Plus get out of it next year for 1 mill if needed.

With Jones they shot there whole load and are stuck for at least two years.

13 million for a RB rarely works out man!

The last time I saw Jones against the great Michael Brockers, Jones and his buddies ran rampant against Brockers.

No one ever won a Super Bowl by signing all the average players at WR and DL. They win the Super Bowl by having the best players. PERIOD! Aaron Jones is a much better player than Michael Brockers.

The last time I saw Jones against the great Michael Brockers, Jones and his buddies ran rampant against Brockers.

@Goalline posted:

The last time I saw Jones against the great Michael Brockers, Jones and his buddies ran rampant against Brockers.

No one ever won a Super Bowl by signing all the average players at WR and DL. They win the Super Bowl by having the best players. PERIOD! Aaron Jones is a much better player than Michael Brockers.

The last time I saw Jones against the great Michael Brockers, Jones and his buddies ran rampant against Brockers.

So Brockers is trash now and Lowry and Lancaster are better?  Is that what your telling me?

Please don’t tell me thats what your telling me?

@Henry posted:

Which means you shouldn't try at all.

The reality is this.  HE DIDN'T TRY AT ALL.  Lowry and Lancaster ARE the scrappy rotation guys, not the starters.  Ty Summers is not a legit backup ILB, he's a ST at best.

How do you know he didn’t try? Everyone including Gute knows we have to improve our DL, but you need the opportunity. Look how desperate he was to sign a washed up Snacks Harrison. No, the opportunity was not there at the end of the first round.

@Grave Digger posted:

Jones doesn’t fumble on that play 99 times out of 100, we know because his ratio of fumbles to touches is like 1:125. They hit a miracle Hail Mary even though GB gives up few deep shots all year. Things just fell right for TB in this one on a couple key plays. Teams were pretty even save for two oddball plays that shouldn’t have happened. That’s how it goes in the playoffs though. Who guesses a street free agent DT would press Big Ben into a pop fly INT pick 6 in a SB. Shit happens.

So what are those numbers up against top tier defenses in the playoffs?  Well, his numbers in the regular season against blah, blah, blah. 

What are the numbers for Packers loses in the NFCC?  I bet they look a whole lot different then the regular season numbers for who or what time or when. 

1-4.  There's a stat.

The funny thing about Howard Green, at least TT tried.  When did they sign Green?  October?  Yeah, October, not a week before the NFCC.

@Goalline posted:

How do you know he didn’t try? Everyone including Gute knows we have to improve our DL, but you need the opportunity. Look how desperate he was to sign a washed up Snacks Harrison. No, the opportunity was not there at the end of the first round.

Because I watched the fucking draft.  "Aw shit, there's no one in FA. MAYBE I SHOULD LOOK AT USING A DRAFT PICK."

@GB-Brandon posted:

So Brockers is trash now and Lowry and Lancaster are better?  Is that what your telling me?

Please don’t tell me thats what your telling me?

No one is calling Brockers trash. He just ain’t all that special. Aaron Jones is special. Special players win you shit, like the playoff game against the Rams. Aaron Jones is a big playmaker. Michael Brockers is not.

@Henry posted:

Because I watched the fucking draft.  "Aw shit, there's no one in FA. MAYBE I SHOULD LOOK AT USING A DRAFT PICK."

Who the fuck is this draft savior that you keep bringing up?

Gute: “ I have the chance to choose this generational talent at QB” but let me choose this average ass DL so I can show I’m doing something “

NFC Championship 2020: 49ers' Raheem Mostert makes NFL history in dismantling of Packers

So what? Quit with the fantasy! Tell me. WHO was available to stop that? The fucking putrid DT talent in last year’s draft. What, draft another Dean Lowry? Why?

@Goalline posted:

Who the fuck is this draft savior that you keep bringing up?

Gute: “ I have the chance to choose this generational talent at QB” but let me choose this average ass DL so I can show I’m doing something “

Generational talent.

Okay.

"I have a first round HOFer MVP and a middling defense.  Fuck it, lets draft a guy that throws a shit ton of interceptions but looks good doing it".

@Henry posted:

Generational talent.

Okay.

Well, he better feel that way if he was going to blow his wad like that, no?

Yep, he should, which is why I really think Gunt isn't a very good GM.

@Henry posted:

Yep, he should, which is why I really think Gunt isn't a very good GM.

He’s a whole lot better than you, my friend. A whole lot better.

@Boris posted:

Saints are restructuring QB Taysom Hill’s contract to create cap room. Details are great: it’s a 4-year, $140 million contract extension - but all years are voidable and it’s a mechanism to free up cap space this year, per source. It saves Saints over $7.5M against cap this year.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) March 14, 2021

https://www.nbcsports.com/edge...s/headlines/10012071

Every time I read this report, I keep thinking there's a typo in it.  $35M per year....for Taysom Hill???  You've got to be kidding me.

I think it has a lot of funny money in it. To come close to earning that money he’s going to have to shock the world and perform to that level.

@Goalline posted:

He’s a whole lot better than you, my friend. A whole lot better.

Weak.

@Henry posted:

What's funny to me is it's the same fucking scenario every time.  Maybe the Packers having their own playoff level defense instead of having fucking Lancaster and Lowry as key pieces might be a something to look into?  Maybe having playoff caliber WR or DT or ILB (lulz) might be something to check out?

Hey, we got a developmental, raw QB with questionable decision making skills for a 1st and a 4th while taking the first defensive player in the 5th round.

Lowry and fucking Lancaster.

That defense also gave up 10 points in the second half (really 3 points if you take away the biggest contribution of the game by Aaron Jones, ironically). They also picked off Tom Brady 3 times and gave them a chance to win. They should have.

The offense made huge 2 mistakes, the defense 1. All 3 were the reason they lost. In 2021, they can use some talent- sure, get more talent. But improving from within will help them more than any draft pick. Stop making the critical mistake. Play fundamental football. Catch tge fucking ball. Don’t fumble. Don’t blow coverage at the end of the half, FFS.

Aaron Jones, as glad as I am he’s staying, stands front and center. Your mistake helped give away a chance to play for it all. Adams, you’re front and center too. King? GTFOH...

@Goalline posted:

So what? Quit with the fantasy! Tell me. WHO was available to stop that? The fucking putrid DT talent in last year’s draft. What, draft another Dean Lowry? Why?

Or the guy that could be Mike Daniels if you had a 4th rounder to use?  Stop with the mythical scenario of I would know a sure fire way to fix the defense.  The point is this, the guy that's paid to make these decisions did absolutely nothing besides picking up one DT as a UDFA and draft an injury prone ILB in the 5th.

The middle of that defense isn't merely average or slightly below average, it's a travesty.  Gunt did nothing.

Hey, that Opie pick is looking good.  He thought enough to use a 7th rounder on a fucking long snapper but not even try for a DT.

He is a horrible GM.  He blew it with the  Gary Pick and should of drafted Jeffery Simmons. He has starved the WR position and passed on several guys over the past three years. He is a Fucken idiot!!!  Now he is in the business of paying RB’s BIG $ which nobody can show me a path to success!!! He is basically living off Thompson’s guys for the most part!!

what I think happened today is AR12 told him to go to hell on a “1 year conversion” and said “1+4=5 & I want a WR too or go to Hell”  so Gute

Signed Aaron Jones to help his stupid Fucken Draft Pick because he is gonna need All The HELP IN THE WORLD NEXT YEAR!!

@Henry posted:

Weak.

Truth.

2 years ago I realized how delusional the sports fan was. You read 2 hours of draft materials and think you know more than guys working 15 hour days absorbing draft information. Watching guys on tape and in person , reading reports, digging up opinions on other teams etc.

They have to deal in reality. You can’t even tell me who Gute should have picked in the first round to shore up our DL.

I started ignoring the draft until the players were picked and reading/watching  everything about the drafted players after that. I no longer think I am some kind of super scout who knows better than the pros, like most fans seem to think. More to the point, I find it hilarious when fans act like they actually know. You don’t!

@Music City posted:

That defense also gave up 10 points in the second half (really 3 points if you take away the biggest contribution of the game by Aaron Jones, ironically). They also picked off Tom Brady 3 times and gave them a chance to win. They should have.

The offense made huge 2 mistakes, the defense 1. All 3 were the reason they lost. In 2021, they can use some talent- sure, get more talent. But improving from within will help them more than any draft pick. Stop making the critical mistake. Play fundamental football. Catch tge fucking ball. Don’t fumble. Don’t blow coverage at the end of the half, FFS.

Aaron Jones, as glad as I am he’s staying, stands front and center. Your mistake helped give away a chance to play for it all. Adams, you’re front and center too. King? GTFOH...

I don’t know why it’s so hard for some fans to see this, Music. They are always looking for that shiny new toy to come and save us. Just play better, no go’s.

@Henry posted:

Or the guy that could be Mike Daniels if you had a 4th rounder to use?  Stop with the mythical scenario of I would know a sure fire way to fix the defense.  The point is this, the guy that's paid to make these decisions did absolutely nothing besides picking up one DT as a UDFA and draft an injury prone ILB in the 5th.

The middle of that defense isn't merely average or slightly below average, it's a travesty.  Gunt did nothing.

Hey, that Opie pick is looking good.  He thought enough to use a 7th rounder on a fucking long snapper but not even try for a DT.

So you are criticizing him for not picking some mythical life saving player? Got it! Last year’s draft was seriously bereft of Mike Daniels types. Someone may shock me, but I don’t think so.

@Goalline posted:

We are not super deep at WR and don’t need to be. This is not MM’s offense.

BTW, Patrick Queen was not going to carry us past Tampa last year, based on his play in a more talented Ravens defense. He’ll be good, but at the moment he is no difference maker.

He might have. We were one or two plays away from winning that game and the right player at OT, DT, WR, Corner, ILB etc. could have been all the difference as opposed to spending 2 draft pics on a project QB.

@13X posted:

He might have. We were one or two plays away from winning that game and the right player at OT, DT, WR, Corner, ILB etc. could have been all the difference as opposed to spending 2 draft pics on a project QB.

I agree, but no one can tell me who this player is. I think it is because they don’t actually know. They better wait and join the rest of us in 3 years when we finally figure out who from this draft is actually good.

@GB-Brandon posted:

He is a horrible GM.  He blew it with the  Gary Pick and should of drafted Jeffery Simmons. He has starved the WR position and passed on several guys over the past three years. He is a Fucken idiot!!!  Now he is in the business of paying RB’s BIG $ which nobody can show me a path to success!!! He is basically living off Thompson’s guys for the most part!!

what I think happened today is AR12 told him to go to hell on a “1 year conversion” and said “1+4=5 & I want a WR too or go to Hell”  so Gute

Signed Aaron Jones to help his stupid Fucken Draft Pick because he is gonna need All The HELP IN THE WORLD NEXT YEAR!!

😂😂😂😂 you amuse me. So clueless. So desperate.

@Music City posted:

That defense also gave up 10 points in the second half (really 3 points if you take away the biggest contribution of the game by Aaron Jones, ironically). They also picked off Tom Brady 3 times and gave them a chance to win. They should have.

The offense made huge 2 mistakes, the defense 1. All 3 were the reason they lost. In 2021, they can use some talent- sure, get more talent. But improving from within will help them more than any draft pick. Stop making the critical mistake. Play fundamental football. Catch tge fucking ball. Don’t fumble. Don’t blow coverage at the end of the half, FFS.

Aaron Jones, as glad as I am he’s staying, stands front and center. Your mistake helped give away a chance to play for it all. Adams, you’re front and center too. King? GTFOH...

Who do they have to improve from within on defense? (edit: at DT/DE and ILB)

The point isn't that these mistakes weren't huge turning points, the point is maybe going for more talent in the here and now could've either prevented the mistakes or helped them overcome it.  There's always a "should've" conversation in these NFCC loses.

Outside of 2010, when you knew that defense was going to blow somebody up, we white knuckled it through these things since everyone knew these defenses were average.  If there is one solid, immutable fact in the NFL it is the axiom that defense wins championships.   

We can blame that on TT screwing the pooch towards the end, not even a discussion at this point.  My problem is Gunt was there for it all.  He made a nice splash with Z, P and Amos and then switched off.  He left the job half finished.  Start making some Billy B moves to even fractionally upgrade the incredibly weak positions.  Try something at least.     

@Goalline posted:

I agree, but no one can tell me who this player is. I think it is because they don’t actually know. They better wait and join the rest of us in 3 years when we finally figure out who from this draft is actually good.

Because it’s speculation on how that player would of fit into our system or if that player stayed healthy etc etc. We simply don’t know. what we do know other then a couple carries by Dillion is we didn’t get NOTHING in that game from picks 1-4.  On top of that you have two rookie contracts tied up in it moving forward into this season. Plus a whole contract situation now with Rodgers.

So yeah there is frustration and don’t think for a second that guys like Rodgers don’t think of these things either. Its all fun and games when your winning but when you lose and it doesn’t work then the second guessing begins.

@Goalline posted:

Truth.

2 years ago I realized how delusional the sports fan was. You read 2 hours of draft materials and think you know more than guys working 15 hour days absorbing draft information. Watching guys on tape and in person , reading reports, digging up opinions on other teams etc.

They have to deal in reality. You can’t even tell me who Gute should have picked in the first round to shore up our DL.

I started ignoring the draft until the players were picked and reading/watching  everything about the drafted players after that. I no longer think I am some kind of super scout who knows better than the pros, like most fans seem to think. More to the point, I find it hilarious when fans act like they actually know. You don’t!

I know one thing.  1-4. 

The "who would you choose super GM" is a red herring and always has been. 

Finally, you said something I agree with. Yes, “it is all fun and games”. My job is hard enough. I don’t feel like doing Gute’s for him. Fuck him, let him do his own job.

@Goalline posted:

So you are criticizing him for not picking some mythical life saving player? Got it! Last year’s draft was seriously bereft of Mike Daniels types. Someone may shock me, but I don’t think so.

Which is why he shouldn't use any and every avenue to try and fix not just sub par positions on defense but hilariously bad positions on defense.

I'm all for making due as every team has to at certain positions.  But that defense doesn't even have make due players.  It is a fucking barren wasteland.

@Henry posted:

I know one thing.  1-4.

The "who would you choose super GM" is a red herring and always has been.

😂 YES!

I would also like to add to this "find the DT" conversation, Gunt is the same guy who used a frickin' shotgun approach for WR, drafting such all stars as J'Mon Moore in an attempt to find anything.

@Henry posted:

Which is why he shouldn't use any and every avenue to try and fix not just sub par positions on defense but hilariously bad positions on defense.

I'm all for making due as every team has to at certain positions.  But that defense doesn't even have make due players.  It is a fucking barren wasteland.

That’s not true. We have lots of talent on defense, most of it provided by Brian Gutekunst. We just have more weaknesses than the best defenses. Hopefully, this draft brings some talent. Perhaps, we trade a 5th for Brockers to make Brandon orgasmically happy?

@Henry posted:

I would also like to add to this "find the DT" conversation, Gunt is the same guy who used a frickin' shotgun approach for WR, drafting such all stars as J'Mon Moore in an attempt to find something.

Yeah, I think he learned from that. The lesson? Boy I really suck at drafting WRs.😂

Orgasmically win-win.

I should've rephrased that.  Yes, they have talent on that defense, very good talent.  It's so good that it left a cavernous hole at ILB and DT/DE opposite Kenny Clark.  That's the dichotomy that's so god damn puzzling to me.  You don't have go that far to finish the job. It's like building a house and not putting in windows.  Sure looks great from the outside, to bad it completely floods when there's a storm.

@Goalline posted:

That’s not true. We have lots of talent on defense, most of it provided by Brian Gutekunst. We just have more weaknesses than the best defenses. Hopefully, this draft brings some talent. Perhaps, we trade a 5th for Brockers to make Brandon orgasmically happy?

You laugh but The “Bar” is so low that Brockers would be massive upgrade for this defense. He is a grinder and relentless and comes from the no.1 defense in football from last year. You put him next to KC and we would have something.

Huge Upgrade!!

@Henry posted:

Orgasmically win-win.

I should've rephrased that.  Yes, they have talent on that defense, very good talent.  It's so good that it left a cavernous hole at ILB and DT opposite Kenny Clark.  That's the dichotomy that's so god damn puzzling to me.  You don't have go that far to finish the job. It's like building a house and not putting in windows.  Sure looks great from the outside, too bad it completely floods when there's a storm.

It drives me crazy!  You’ll hear all these people talking  “Corner, Corner, Corner” and it’s just so ass backwards.

Get physical and disruptive upfront!  It’s not rocket science!

Same thing with Aaron Jones. I’d much rather have the OL in tact then some star RB. Give me an ALL-Star OL and Dillion and James white on the cheap. The chains will get moved!

@GB-Brandon posted:

You laugh but The “Bar” is so low that Brockers would be massive upgrade for this defense. He is a grinder and relentless and comes from the no.1 defense in football from last year. You put him next to KC and we would have something.

Huge Upgrade!!

I like Brockers a lot. Not enough to give up Aaron Jones, but he would be so good for this team.

@Henry posted:

Who do they have to improve from within on defense? (edit: at DT/DE and ILB)

The point isn't that these mistakes weren't huge turning points, the point is maybe going for more talent in the here and now could've either prevented the mistakes or helped them overcome it.  There's always a "should've" conversation in these NFCC loses.

I disagree- every one of these mistakes were mental errors that changed the entire complexion of the game. Plays that if executed properly contribute to winning the game. Because they weren’t, they contributed directly to the loss.

This is what Bellichik, and Walsh, Lombardi, Parcells... the great coaches knew. The details. The little things. They’re what win Championships when the difference in a game of more than 100 plays is 3...