Don't believe I'd seen that information about Watt reported previously. Wilde was critical of the Peppers and Hyde moves at the time they were made.

Ted was so vague and unhelpful to the press I'm sure it was frustrating working with him. Now that he's gone and they don't have to protect what little access they were getting they probably feel more free to express themselves. Also it's true, these drafts were not Ted's finest hour. Much like Bill Polian, he peaked and then couldn't deliver over the long haul. It doesn't taint his legacy IMO, he's still a SB winning GM with a lot of wins, lots of pro bowl player finds, and lots of smart decisions. I wish he could finished his career stronger. 

Ted had some great help here in J. Schneider, J. Dorsey, and R. McKenzie and I think the years without them the organization began to slip at least a little bit and gradually led to the massive decline that began last year.   It didn't help that TT was having health problems a few years ago, and I would imagine he probably couldn't grind out long hours of scouting and such like he could when he was younger.

If nothing else, TT can sleep well knowing that he was able to accomplish an awful lot of success during his tenure.  It's too bad that he couldn't keep that successful run going forever, but I think last year proved his time was up and it was time to move in a different direction.

When you are such an extreme draft and development organization, where you flat out refuse to even entertain the idea of using free agents, and then flat out FAIL in your draft selections, this is the shit show you get. 

Beyond his swing and misses in the draft, Ted also failed to force MM's hand at defensive coordinator as well and change the culture of the coaching staff here. 

No one. Not even a position coach really felt anyone's boot up their ass to get their players to be accountable much less be accountable for the coaching job they were doing. 

As much of a pain in the ass Damarious Randall was, he is now excelling as a safety in Cleveland. It was a far better suited position for him, and he's playing the free safety position apparently quite well. Something the Packers are sorely lacking. We all know the Casey Hayward and Hyde stories as well. So when Ted did hit on a position player, the Packers failed to retain them OR recognize where they belonged on the field. 

And finally there is also this:

It was complete bullshit that MM was forced to sit there at press conferences and do the job of Ted in trying to feebly answer questions about free agency, contracts, and the draft. Nothing stood out more then when the Packers lost in OT at Arizona in the playoffs in 2016 and Ted literally snuck out of the stadium to hop a plane and not face the press at the end of season. WTF. That was completely unacceptable and no one held Ted responsible. Including Mark Murphy. 

Meanwhile, another season likely lost with GB having a HOF QB. 

Absolutely shameful. 

Really didn't see the hesitancy of the media to criticize TT when they felt it was necessary. Personnel issues extend well beyond just those three drafts.

Wonder if it all came to a head last season when Ted refused to sign a veteran QB after it was obvious that Hundley was not the answer.

The implication from a couple of passages in this article is the biggest thing I took from this. It sure seems they are hinting at the fact that TT was having major problems mentally and this is what contributed to the decline in draft performance. It's easy for all of us to say that they should have eased him out sooner; it's like phasing out the founder of a company or the patriarch/matriarch in a family business after they start declining mentally. Many times the decline is gradual and those that are around day-to-day don't notice it as much (or don't want to notice it if they care about the person personally) as someone that goes a few years between interactions.

It was never going to be easy, but that's what Murphy is paid to do. They did this when they reconsidered having John Jones take over as team president in 2007. Back then, it was probably Bob Harlan that had to make that tough decision. They couldn't or wouldn't do the same thing with TT and that probably cost the franchise having the best chance of taking advantage of 3-4 years of Aaron Rodgers' prime. Some writers/bloggers were explicitly saying this earlier.

“Ted was one of the best in football at running a draft,” one longtime NFL personnel executive said. “But he wasn’t in the same mindset those last few years.”

Team president Mark Murphy bears as much responsibility for that as Thompson. Only Murphy knows why he didn’t force Thompson out sooner after it was obvious to those around the GM that he not only had lost his edge but also was in declining health.

https://www.totalpackers.com/2...pson-mental-decline/

Has TT talked in public since this press box photo last November?

LEAVE TED ALONE!!!

Dogma

He's only 65.  Is it CTE?  Parkinsons?

YATittle posted:

Wonder if it all came to a head last season when Ted refused to sign a veteran QB after it was obvious that Hundley was not the answer.

I would bet really good money that was exactly the case and it is inexcusable for TT to not bring someone in.

In my humble opinion last year being a bad year and this year maybe being average I think that isn't on Murphy or MM it is completely and totally on TT. 

His refusal to use meaningful free agency and his terrible recent drafts has really made it hard on the coaching staff and the new GM who is left picking up the pieces and has to restock the roster.   I just think you can only have the draft and develop philosophy for so long because if you miss in the draft and refuse to fill the holes by other means a rebuild is what you are stuck with.

I may be proven wrong but I really think the new GM is on track with things and I really enjoy the new aggressive philosophy he brings.

Pboi and PFoe hit on some good points.  They were a staunch D+D team when TT started the rebuild and that worked very well because of 2 things.  3 if you count AR separately.

1.  A really strong scouting department flush with future GM's.

2.  Drafting higher in the order for a couple years and raking in talent (see above).

Once they no longer had either of those assets, they had to find new scouting talent OR continue picking higher in the draft.  AR prevented the later, I don't know what prevented the former.

GuteAndPlenty's first draft is looking real strong but it can't be missed that he picked 15 spots higher than his predecessor usually did.  That may have only added Alexander, all things equal, but still.  Subtract him and it changes the complexion of this year's haul.

In response to the thread title:  If you are into that sort of thing.

DH13 posted:

GuteAndPlenty's first draft is looking real strong but it can't be missed that he picked 15 spots higher than his predecessor usually did.  That may have only added Alexander, all things equal, but still.  Subtract him and it changes the complexion of this year's haul.

By the end of November, the Packers could be staring at 4-6-1 or 5-5-1. Would love to be Rong and see the team with a better record, but I am also a realist. It's as brutal a schedule as it gets. 

If the above happens and they finish around .500 or even a little below, Gute could be picking again around the top 15. The good news is it's apparently a pass rush and OT deep draft, 2 big needs.

That's kind of where I'm at.  If the division is as faultering as some suggest and it only takes 10 wins to take it, where do we get 7 more wins?  I'm struggling to find 5 more wins to get us to 8-7-1.  Drafting at 15 would be a good consolation.

I'll bite. Let's throw out the Rams and Pats since the Packers are supposed to lose those games. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they won one of these games but lets just call it 0-2.

Dolphins - home game. Brock Lobster still at QB? Or maybe Tannehill. This is a game the Packers can win. They may or may not be favored depending on how the two game go out of the bye. I'm calling this a win.

At Seattle - Always a tough place to play but they are not a very good team. Still might be a pick-em on the road. I'm calling this a win.

At Vikings - Tough to figure this team out. They probably have Cook and Griffin back by this game along with Rhodes. Vikings likely will be favored by 3ish this game but I like Rodgers in the dome. Calling this a win.

Cards - This is a win

Falcons - Another tough team to figure out. I think the Packers will be favored if things play out as above. Home game in December, I'm taking GB.

At Bears - This is one of those games where anything can happen. I feel like it's a game the Packers *should* win but the Bears pull one of their special defense/ST turns the tide in their favor games. Packers lose.

At Jets - See Cards game

Lions - Crosby doesn't miss 800 FG's, Packers win this time.

That's 7 and that's throwing the next two games in the toilet which I'm not ready to do right now.  

I recognize that this team has warts. All of them do. And some team(s) with warts is/are going to be in the NFC and/or AFC title game this year. I also realize with all these warts if Crosby simply hits some FG's that he normally makes this team is 5-1 right now. 

DH13 posted:

Pboi and PFoe hit on some good points.  They were a staunch D+D team when TT started the rebuild and that worked very well because of 2 things.  3 if you count AR separately.

1.  A really strong scouting department flush with future GM's.

2.  Drafting higher in the order for a couple years and raking in talent (see above).

Once they no longer had either of those assets, they had to find new scouting talent OR continue picking higher in the draft.  AR prevented the later, I don't know what prevented the former.

GuteAndPlenty's first draft is looking real strong but it can't be missed that he picked 15 spots higher than his predecessor usually did.  That may have only added Alexander, all things equal, but still.  Subtract him and it changes the complexion of this year's haul.

One thing about the 2010 that sometimes gets overlooked was their ability to field one of the best Packers secondaries (4 of the top 5 were Pro Bowl level guys) of all time without having to use a single first round pick (and only one draft pick at all). Usually, CB is such a premium position that the star players are gone in the first half of the first round. TT hit on a free agent signing in Woodson as the top CB, Collins was a great second round pick in TT's first draft in 2005, and Peprah was a street free agent (and basically just a guy). Tramon Williams and Sam Shields were also a street free agent and an UDFA as well. CM3, Raji, Pickett, and Cullen Jenkins were all major contributors, but the strength of that defense was the secondary and four of the 5 guys were acquired for nothing - not even a draft pick. Getting Shields as an UDFA was unbelievable. If they'd have redrafted the 2010 draft picks a year later, he's easily in the first round and probably top 15.

The future GM's in the scouting department no doubt had a hand in that haul.

Everyone on the planet thought he should take Watt.

So he doesn’t, just to prove he’s smarter than everyone else.  It wasn’t about the franchise, it was about him.  

This after whiffing on the 2 previous drafts.

Thanks Ted.  Bye.

My very first post here was about TT and the mediocre job he was doing. The usual suspects, bowing to TT, jumped all over that post. I was right, they were wrong. 

excalibur posted:

My very first post here was about TT and the mediocre job he was doing. The usual suspects, bowing to TT, jumped all over that post. I was right, they were wrong. 

Ok - I’ll play Dr. Phil.

Do you feel better now?

Pistol GB posted:

Everyone on the planet thought he should take Watt.

So he doesn’t, just to prove he’s smarter than everyone else.  It wasn’t about the franchise, it was about him.  

This after whiffing on the 2 previous drafts.

Thanks Ted.  Bye.

excalibur posted:

My very first post here was about TT and the mediocre job he was doing. The usual suspects, bowing to TT, jumped all over that post. I was right, they were wrong. 

It had more to do with who you are as a person.  You're still wrong because your arguments are wrong as usual and you were running your yap about it when TT was doing a solid job.  You're the ****ing epitome of the shit that stuck to the wall, just like our thread starter.

Ted had a good run, it's over.  His past 3 drafts are fair game but the reaction from some of you is hilarious.

IT'S ALL TT'S FAULT!  HE DESTROYED THIS TEAM!  IT WAS ALL ABOUT HIM!  I KNEW IT FROM THE BEGINNING!

Oh yeah, TT put together the team that won a SuperBowl.  What a chump.  Bunch of ****ing ingrates.

BTW, what was that BB you were on before where you were basically talking to one other person and yourself most of the time?

Weren't you bagging on Rodgers all the time too?  Yeah, you were/are.

Henry posted:

Pistol GB posted:

Everyone on the planet thought he should take Watt.

So he doesn’t, just to prove he’s smarter than everyone else.  It wasn’t about the franchise, it was about him.  

This after whiffing on the 2 previous drafts.

Thanks Ted.  Bye.

 

Except I was talking about 2017, not 2005.  You really don't think it was time to move on?

The article was right: TT makes the Packer HOF.  He also screwed the pooch at the end of his career.  Round one of 2017 ended it for me. 

Thompson did some great things for the franchise, but yeah, I think after all his success, he started making it about himself.   Trading back in 2017 was classic TT bucking the system and showcasing his unpredictability.  Just take the best player available already.

After the Randall and Rollins fiasco? Seriously.  It wasn't cute any more.

Who the **** said I didn't think it was time to move on?  I'm saying the same thing about McVince.  Past his expiration date.  Doesn't take away from what he did.

TT ran the team his way, it ceased to be effective, he's gone.  McVince coached his way, it ceased to be effective, he's still here. 

Just in case you needed a refresher in hysterics.

So he doesn’t, just to prove he’s smarter than everyone else.  It wasn’t about the franchise, it was about him.  

Jesus ****.  Yeah, I'm sure TT was out to spite the Packers organization because he took King after flopping on other CBs.  

packerboi posted:

When you are such an extreme draft and development organization, where you flat out refuse to even entertain the idea of using free agents, and then flat out FAIL in your draft selections, this is the shit show you get. 

 

Ted's drafting fell off considerably right about the time Dorsey, McKenzie, and Schneider began leaving, but I don't think it was just the poor drafting that led to the roster's decline.

I mean Belichek has made many bad picks himself.

However, Belichek was willing to admit his drafting mistakes and replaced them with lower priced free agents and by making trades.

By contrast Ted insisted on giving every possible opportunity to his picks while avoiding free agency and never making any player trades.

Probably going to take a couple of years for Gutey to properly clean up Ted's mess. 

Henry posted:

Who the **** said I didn't think it was time to move on?  I'm saying the same thing about McVince.  Past his expiration date.  Doesn't take away from what he did.

TT ran the team his way, it ceased to be effective, he's gone.  McVince coached his way, it ceased to be effective, he's still here. 

Just in case you needed a refresher in hysterics.

So he doesn’t, just to prove he’s smarter than everyone else.  It wasn’t about the franchise, it was about him.  

Jesus ****.  Yeah, I'm sure TT was out to spite the Packers organization because he took King after flopping on other CBs.  

Who said anything about spite?

Talk about hysterics.  

And just to make it clear, analyzing TT's failures is just dandy but this whole thread makes my skin crawl simply because the self-important jackal that started it and the twat that came to this board because nobody wanted to hear his constant Bert butthurt.   

P'boi and others always laid out solid arguments.  That's just good football talk with some solid spitfire back and forth.  It's the personal dynamic that is more nauseating, especially if TT really is in declining health.  

Take your ****ing thread title and the lap dog that comes with it and get the **** out of here. 

Pistol GB posted:

Henry posted:

Who the **** said I didn't think it was time to move on?  I'm saying the same thing about McVince.  Past his expiration date.  Doesn't take away from what he did.

TT ran the team his way, it ceased to be effective, he's gone.  McVince coached his way, it ceased to be effective, he's still here. 

Just in case you needed a refresher in hysterics.

So he doesn’t, just to prove he’s smarter than everyone else.  It wasn’t about the franchise, it was about him.  

Jesus ****.  Yeah, I'm sure TT was out to spite the Packers organization because he took King after flopping on other CBs.  

Who said anything about spite?

Talk about hysterics.  

So he doesn’t, just to prove he’s smarter than everyone else.  It wasn’t about the franchise, it was about him.  

You do realize you posted that right?

If GB wins the SB this year this thread will be an epic revisit. 

When

I'd be glad to take a cream pie to the face on McVince.  

Why?  Because it's ****ing funny.

Tomāto/Tomâto

Obviously, this entire board hates umlauts.  

Everybody forgets that time I said stuff, people said I was crazy, but in the end I was right all along.  

The true mettle of a smart person isn't being smart, it's telling people you were smart.  

I had to google umlauts

Henry posted:

McVince.  

Still don't get this McVince thing...

I would love to see my first post on this forum. Easy way to look that up? Probably in response to 'ArtistFKA'...

More likely, "I'm a closet Viking fan!"

GBFanForLife posted:

In response to the thread title:  If you are into that sort of thing.

Not that's funny!! 

And in case you're wondering, "NO!"