Remember where u were 8 years ago ???? Before Charles Woodson broke his collarbone just before the half, Green Bay was pummeling the Pittsburgh Steelers 21-3. Aaron Rodgers was your MVP. and your Green Packers won their, not one, not two, not three. yep, their FOURTH SUPER BOWL TITLE. 31-25
Yes. 8 years ago we had just won a Super Bowl with a 27 year old superstar future HOF QB along with some outstanding defensive players. It looked like we'd be in the Super Bowl multiple time.
Just like on January 26, 1997 when we had a 27 year old superstar future HOF QB along with some outstanding defensive players and had just won the Super Bowl.
If Holmgren stayed I'm convinced they would've won another title with Bert. After the failure that is McVince and watching the Pats win another Super Bowl that becomes all too apparent what a good coach can do.
And I think they could have won another if Wolf had stayed instead of giving Sherman full control. The guy was just overwhelmed trying to handle all aspects of the football operations.
I still to this day am scratching my head the Wolf gave Sherman full control. I still think Sherman was a pretty good coach but I think he was just too far over his head with the GM duties.
Henry, I am with you on Holmgren. I think if he had stayed they would have won the Super Bowl against the Broncos and maybe one more. I don't know if it was true or not but there was a lot of speculation that Holmgren had his eyes on the other job and he didn't do his best his last year.
He was the coach of the Packers in the Super Bowl against Denver, and the following season as well.
Henry posted:If Holmgren stayed I'm convinced they would've won another title with Bert. After the failure that is McVince and watching the Pats win another Super Bowl that becomes all too apparent what a good coach can do.
Agree, with Holmgren/Favre there could have been more. Belichick is an anomaly that will likely not be duplicated, but as you said shows that it is possible. I'm assuming you mean that MM failed in not achieving multiple Lombardis? If the measuring stick is SB wins, he's no more a failure than Holmgren. But yes, the opportunity was/is there for more.
MNPackman posted:He was the coach of the Packers in the Super Bowl against Denver, and the following season as well.
He may have meant "if Holmgren didn't already have one foot out the door looking at GM/HC opportunities leading up to SB32".
Not taking anything away from the Pats, but the AFC and especially the east aren’t exactly “ murderers row”
You got the Steelers and Broncos. Now KC and sprinkle a couple of good years from Balt. NE wins their division by showing up. Packers thru Holmy and Shermie had SF, Eagles, Bores, Queens,Carolina,Atlanta,NO,
Cowpukes, Giants and Seattle to contend with
You can only play who shows up.
That said, you don't have to look much further than their own division to find a lack of threat. If that division is competitive over the years, maybe NE drops an extra game or 2 during the regular season and doesn't get HFA and a bye en route to how many SB's.
As long as we're veering again toward Brady bashing. I caught this from Vic's comments section:
Brady is great but someone posted a stat in the comments the other day that was pretty glaring. Brady is over .500 in playoff games where he has a passer rating under 78.5 and is over .500 in playoff games where he throws more ints than tds. the rest of the league has under a .100 winning percentage doing the same things. you don't want to take too much from Brady because he wins and is an all time great, but it's pretty amazing how often he can get away with bad games in a single elimination tournament. it's already been pointed out that the packers in the rodgers era would need to score 2 full tds a game more than the pats of this era to win in the playoffs. could you imagine if rodgers only had to score more than 3 points to win a super bowl? brady is a great player, but his coaching and system is even greater.
are you trying to tell me "defense wins championships" is still true?
unpossible 
Another shocker: games are won in the trenches.
DH13 posted:MNPackman posted:He was the coach of the Packers in the Super Bowl against Denver, and the following season as well.
He may have meant "if Holmgren didn't already have one foot out the door looking at GM/HC opportunities leading up to SB32".
Yes that is probably what I should have said and you said it perfectly.
Packiderm posted:
Not taking anything away from the Pats, but the AFC and especially the east aren’t exactly “ murderers row”
You got the Steelers and Broncos. Now KC and sprinkle a couple of good years from Balt. NE wins their division by showing up. Packers thru Holmy and Shermie had SF, Eagles, Bores, Queens,Carolina,Atlanta,NO,
Cowpukes, Giants and Seattle to contend with
I was talking to a co worker about that exact same thing this morning. Let's face it in the AFC East over the last 17 years who have the Pats really had to contend with? The Bills, Jets, and Dolphins are the NFL poster children for mediocre/crappy teams.
As for the AFC itself really only the Steelers have been really consistent and the Colts and Broncos have been good enough at times to challenge the Pats but they have been down recently.
I guess they are well rested come Super Bowl time.
Imagine their record if they had to face the Lions twice a year, The Jay Cutler led Bears or the the juggernaut let by Christian Ponder, Teddy B, Gus Ferrote, etc. Teams coached by the likes of Marc Trestman, Lovie Smith, Mike Tice, Brad Childress and Rod Marinelli
A bit of hyperbole for sure but the NFC Central hasn't been the 27 Yankees either.
Teams play who they play.
That's a bit of a strawman. There haven't been many years over the last 30 where GB sewed up the division without competition from one of those teams. MM had a very good record vs. the NFCN but you'll have to do the winning % calculation to see the strength of division. I'd bet heavily the NFCN(-GB) > AFCE(-NE).
AFC East has been very weak this century besides the Patriots.
But NE also has 9 Super Bowl appearances.
The NFC North has made 2 Super Bowl appearances combined in the 2000s.
Pretty sure that when it comes to getting to the big game over the past couple of decades no division has a worse track record than the Old Black and Blue.
That is only because we have those perennial loser Vikings and Lions in the division.
DH13 posted:Another shocker: games are won in the trenches.
Are you saying GB should use their 2 first rounders to draft trench diggers? The draft is usually very deep at that position.
I see what you did there.
New England is the anomaly. The rest of the league is the norm. Including our beloved franchise. Face it. It’s the truth. We can physcoanalyze, but history won’t.
Four days after team president Bob Harlan hired Ron Wolf as general manager, the Packers were playing in Atlanta, it was in the press box at Fulton County stadium on Dec 1, 1991 when Wolf first informed Harlan of his plans for QB Brett Favre.
Bob Harlan to Ron Wolf about the trade of a number one pick for for a third string QB. " When I hired you, I told you it was your team to run, and I PROMISED you no interference from the Board, or the Executive committee".
On this date Feb, 11 1992 Wolf struck a deal with the Falcons to get his QB.
Oh man I remember that day well when the Packers traded for Favre. I was not a happy fan that day (I still had vivid memories of the Hadl trade) and thought "well there you go with the Packers trading a first rounder for a guy who is a 3rd stringer they are morons"
1992 thru 2019....it's been a good run. Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Need to get it rolling again.
The Heckler posted:Oh man I remember that day well when the Packers traded for Favre. I was not a happy fan that day (I still had vivid memories of the Hadl trade) and thought "well there you go with the Packers trading a first rounder for a guy who is a 3rd stringer they are morons"
...and what you didn't know at the time was Wolf initially offered a 2nd rounder. but his good buddy Ken Herock, hemmed & hawed about it. (Which was the correct offer & value at the time) So Wolf "upped it" to the 1st rounder.
I remember having a wait & see attitude. That first game vs. Cinci when he came in & won the game for an injured Majik. TD pass to Kittrick Taylor. The arm strength on that throw & the safety couldn't get over there. I stood up & had goosebumps on my arms (getting goosebumps right now just thinking about it!) No Packer QB I had ever seen before had an arm like that. I knew he had the talent after that throw.
I'm taking a wait & see attitude with the new coaching staff. Let's see what happens.
Boris posted:The Heckler posted:Oh man I remember that day well when the Packers traded for Favre. I was not a happy fan that day (I still had vivid memories of the Hadl trade) and thought "well there you go with the Packers trading a first rounder for a guy who is a 3rd stringer they are morons"
...and what you didn't know at the time was Wolf initially offered a 2nd rounder. but his good buddy Ken Herock, hemmed & hawed about it. (Which was the correct offer & value at the time) So Wolf "upped it" to the 1st rounder.
I remember having a wait & see attitude. That first game vs. Cinci when he came in & won the game for an injured Majik. TD pass to Kittrick Taylor. The arm strength on that throw & the safety couldn't get over there. I stood up & had goosebumps on my arms (getting goosebumps right now just thinking about it!) No Packer QB I had ever seen before had an arm like that. I knew he had the talent after that throw.
I'm taking a wait & see attitude with the new coaching staff. Let's see what happens.
Im getting gooooooooosebumps just reading your excellent post.
THANK YOU!!!
Honestly, after the kind of QB play we had gotten used to seeing in GB, I thought he was just lucky. It took a couple years of seeing passes like that before I started believing he was that good. I still remember gasping every time he threw into a tight window thinking it would be a pick only to see our guy come up with it. In the pre-NFL-everywhere-all the time, we just were not used to seeing elite QB play much less the rabbits he'd pull out of his arse on a regular basis.
DH13 posted:You can only play who shows up.
That said, you don't have to look much further than their own division to find a lack of threat. If that division is competitive over the years, maybe NE drops an extra game or 2 during the regular season and doesn't get HFA and a bye en route to how many SB's.
Exactly. If the Pats were just a product of a shit division then they would get mopped in the playoffs every year. Instead they beat everyone from both conferences. All those Superbowl wins, are we going to discount some weak NFC participant?
Ubetcha posted:Henry posted:If Holmgren stayed I'm convinced they would've won another title with Bert. After the failure that is McVince and watching the Pats win another Super Bowl that becomes all too apparent what a good coach can do.
Agree, with Holmgren/Favre there could have been more. Belichick is an anomaly that will likely not be duplicated, but as you said shows that it is possible. I'm assuming you mean that MM failed in not achieving multiple Lombardis? If the measuring stick is SB wins, he's no more a failure than Holmgren. But yes, the opportunity was/is there for more.
No, I'm just particularly salty that McVince completely wasted, and I mean completely wasted, 3 years of a HOF QB career by being a pussy. I'm just as cranky about those that let it persist. McVince's Super Bowl win is a testament to TT and Rodgers. He's a stiff.
BTW, **** Winston Moss.
Here's something nice that happened to a true Packer fan:
Sweet. Props to her and the voters.
On this day in 2005.....
Thirty years ago and subsequently picked second overall by the Packers. Picks 1, 3, 4 and 5 of that year are in Canton.
skully posted:Boris posted:The Heckler posted:Oh man I remember that day well when the Packers traded for Favre. I was not a happy fan that day (I still had vivid memories of the Hadl trade) and thought "well there you go with the Packers trading a first rounder for a guy who is a 3rd stringer they are morons"
...and what you didn't know at the time was Wolf initially offered a 2nd rounder. but his good buddy Ken Herock, hemmed & hawed about it. (Which was the correct offer & value at the time) So Wolf "upped it" to the 1st rounder.
I remember having a wait & see attitude. That first game vs. Cinci when he came in & won the game for an injured Majik. TD pass to Kittrick Taylor. The arm strength on that throw & the safety couldn't get over there. I stood up & had goosebumps on my arms (getting goosebumps right now just thinking about it!) No Packer QB I had ever seen before had an arm like that. I knew he had the talent after that throw.
I'm taking a wait & see attitude with the new coaching staff. Let's see what happens.
THANK YOU!!!
That game was awesome because I was living out of state and it was a rare thing for me to see a Packers game on TV. At the time I was still pissed that Wolf had spent a 1st rounder on Atlanta's 3rd string QB.
Then he threw that pass and I said wow what an arm! But I immediately went back in to being doubtful it would last. I guess I became conditioned to doubt that they might be turning a real corner ss how you feel when you grew up in Wisconsin watching the 70's and 80's Packers.
All that being said it sure has been a fun ride for QB play for the last 27 years and not many teams can say that.
michiganjoe posted:On this day in 2005.....
He looks like he's going to cry. Not in a good way.
Another thing none of us knew was the car accident Brett Favre had. And if we had known only that and not the rest of the story there might have been a mutiny in GB when Wolf traded for him – What!!!??? A hurt QB? But the rest of the story is special. The accident required Brett to have an operation that could potentially derail his senior year at Southern Miss. But he came back in record time and in the 2nd or 3rd game of the Southern Miss season he came back to lead his team to a victory over Alabama (if I recall correctly). When Brett came into the game that day the crowd went wild. In the stands that day was one Ron Wolf. He saw Favre’s toughness, resilience, and knack for playing up to the moment up close and personal. Of course, I knew none of this when GB shipped a first round pick for him. I was like the rest of you – Brett who?
michiganjoe posted:Thirty years ago and subsequently picked second overall by the Packers. Picks 1, 3, 4 and 5 of that year are in Canton.
The entire Mandarich debacle is one for the ages, but that last sentence is
It just doesn't get any uglier that that.
Ghost of Lambeau posted:Another thing none of us knew was the car accident Brett Favre had. And if we had known only that and not the rest of the story there might have been a mutiny in GB when Wolf traded for him – What!!!??? A hurt QB? But the rest of the story is special. The accident required Brett to have an operation that could potentially derail his senior year at Southern Miss. But he came back in record time and in the 2nd or 3rd game of the Southern Miss season he came back to lead his team to a victory over Alabama (if I recall correctly). When Brett came into the game that day the crowd went wild. In the stands that day was one Ron Wolf. He saw Favre’s toughness, resilience, and knack for playing up to the moment up close and personal. Of course, I knew none of this when GB shipped a first round pick for him. I was like the rest of you – Brett who?
Yea, sending a 1st round pick to a team that spend a 2nd round pick on the same player the year before had me wondering what was up in Green Bay. And then bypassing the #1 corner back on the board in Troy Vincent for Terrel Buckley had me really wondering what was up. While Buckley was the Cowboys #1 whipping boy for a few years, Brett was worth much more than the pick Wolf sent to Atlanta. Getting Reggie White the next year sealed Wolfs legacy.
Yet he did so much more to round out that roster. Brett and Reggie weren't going to win on their own. Even with depth behind Brett... I'm not sure there is another GM with the record of drafting so many QB's that went on to start for other teams. They probably could have won that SB with Brunell.
