Packers & Free Agency

AR excluded  ......I think HaHa has a higher ceiling than Nick Collins that is why I said he could be TT's best ever. Other than the obvious lap fall of AR12.  I meant Bulaga and AR in my previous post. I had Collins on the brain because I was thinking that HaHa could turn out to be a great 1st round pick.

 

CMIII technically was not TT's first pick that year, but in TT's defense if he took Clay at 9 he never would have gotten a shot at Raji later. TT played it right.

 

Here is every Packer first round pick (Wikipedia) in the modern era (when they went to a 16 game season). I've subjectively graded each one as one of 6 levels (draft position is somewhat considered).

Flame away at me.

Hall of Fame level: Lofton, Rodgers, Matthews, and Sharpe

All-Pro Level: Anderson, Ivery, Clark, Lewis, Bennett, Holliday, Franks, Walker, Barnett

Solid Contributor: Newsome, Taylor, Teague, Hallstrom, Ruettgers, Hawk, Bulaga, Dix, Raji

Competent Player: Verba, Buckley, Fullwood, Carreker, Perry, Jones,

Below Average: Edwards, Michel, Clark, Thompson, Cumby,

Total Bust: Mandarich, Campbell, Sherrod (injury), Harrell, Carroll, Reynolds,

 

 

 

1978	6	Lofton, James	Wide receiver	Stanford	Hall of Fame Level
1978	26	Anderson, John	Linebacker	Michigan	All Pro Level
1979	15	Ivery, Eddie Lee	Running back	Georgia   Tech	All Pro Level
1980	4	Clark, Bruce	Defensive   tackle	Penn State	All Pro Level
1980	26	Cumby, George	Linebacker	Oklahoma	Competent Player
1981	6	Campbell, Rich	Quarterback	California	Bust
1982	22	Hallstrom, Ron	Guard	Iowa	Solid Contributor
1983	11	Lewis, Tim	Cornerback	Pittsburgh	All Pro Level
1984	12	Carreker, Alphonso	Defensive end	Florida State	Competent Player
1985	7	Ruettgers, Ken	Offensive tackle	Southern California	Solid Contributor
1986	—	— No pick	—	—	[w]
1987	4	Fullwood, Brent #	Running back	Auburn	Competent Player (just dumb)
1988	7	Sharpe, Sterling	Wide receiver	South Carolina	Hall of Fame Level
1989	2	Mandarich, Tony	Offensive tackle	Michigan State	Bust
1990	18	Bennett, Tony	Linebacker	Mississippi	All Pro Level
1990	19	Thompson, Darrell	Running   Back	Minnesota	Below Average
1991	19	Clark, Vinnie	Cornerback	Ohio State	Below Average
1992	5	Buckley, Terrell	Cornerback	Florida State	Competent Player
1993	15	Simmons, Wayne	Linebacker	Clemson	Solid Contributor
1993	29	Teague, George	Safety	Alabama	Competent Player
1994	16	Taylor, Aaron	Guard	Notre Dame	Solid Contributor
1995	32	Newsome, Craig	Cornerback	Arizona   State	Solid Contributor
1996	27	Michels, John	Offensive tackle	Southern California	Below Average
1997	30	Verba, Ross	Guard	Iowa	Competent Player
1998	19	Holliday, Vonnie	Defensive end	North   Carolina	All Pro Level (career wise)
1999	25	Edwards, Antuan	Safety	Clemson	Below Average
2000	14	Franks, Bubba	Tight end	Miami	Solid Contributor
2001	10	Reynolds, Jamal	Defensive end	Florida State	Bust
2002	20	Walker, Javon	Wide receiver	Florida State	All Pro Level
2003	29	Barnett, Nick	Linebacker	Oregon State	All Pro Level
2004	25	Carroll, Ahmad	Cornerback	Arkansas	Bust
2005	24	Rodgers, Aaron	Quarterback	California	Hall of Fame Level
2006	5	Hawk, A. J.	Linebacker	Ohio State	Solid Contributor
2007	16	Harrell, Justin	Defensive   tackle	Tennessee	Bust
2008	—	— No pick	—	—	[gg]
2009	9	Raji, B. J.	Defensive   tackle	Boston College	Solid Contributor
2009	26	Matthews III, Clay	Linebacker	Southern California	Hall of Fame Level
2010	23	Bulaga, Bryan	Offensive tackle	Iowa	Solid Contributor
2011	32	Sherrod, Derek	Offensive tackle	Mississippi   State	Bust (Injury)
2012	28	Perry, Nick	Defensive end	Southern California	Competent Player
2013	26	Jones, Datone	Defensive end	UCLA	Competent Player
2014	21	Clinton-Dix, Ha Ha			Solid Contributor

 

Bull****.  

 

Great 1st round picks:  2005-Rodgers (24), 2009-Matthews (26)  Would be happy to throw Collins in here but he was not a 1st round pick.

 

Good and may be better 1st round picks: 2010-Bulaga (23), 2014-Dix (21)

 

Players who belong in the NFL but draw the ire of fools because, after all, they were drafted with a sure fire, never miss, all pro guaranteed, 1st round pick:  2006 Hawk (5), 2009 Raji (9), 2012 Perry (28), 2013 Jones (26).

 

Busts/players who provided nothing:  2007 Harrell (16), 2011 Sherrod (32)

 

As a whole, Thompsons 1st round picks have contributed to winning football on this team. With the exception of Harrell and Sherrod, they've all been multible game/ multible year starters.  Take the time to compare his 10 year window to any other Gm's, you will be suprised at how well he has done especially considering how late in the round his picks have come:

 

Top 10=2

11-20=1

21-32=7 

 

 

T Buck was a Solid Contributor at least. Better than that even. Too bad the Packers didn't know how to get his full potential out of him.

If we're critiquing TT's first round track record, I consider Nelson a first rounder.  It was TT's first pick that year and he traded back to the second to get him.  Even if TT stayed in the first and took Nelson, it would have been a home run.  Doesn't make sense to penalize him for trading out of the first and still getting a pro bowl talent.  

So do you consider Matthews a second-rounder then?

 

First Rounders:

Ha Ha Clinton-Dix (too early)

Datone Jones (too early)

Nick Perry (meh)

Derek Sherrod (bleh)

Brian Bulaga (solid)

BJ Raji (flashed one year, meh since)

Clay Matthews* (difference maker, when healthy)

No pick

Justin Harrell (bleh)

AJ Hawk (bleh)

Aaron Rodgers (He might be okay )

 

Second Rounders:  

DaVante Adams (too early)

Eddie Lacy (too early)

Jerel Worthy (bleh)

Casey Hayward* (incomplete)

Randall Cobb (sweet)

Mike Neal (decent)

No pick

Jordy Nelson (sweet)

Brian Brohm* (bleh)

Patrick Lee* (incomplete)

Brandon Jackson (bleh)

Daryn Colledge (decent)

Greg Jennings* (sweet)

Nick Collins (sweet)

Terrance Murphy* (incomplete)

 

*Additional pick in round

Thompson's FIRST PICK in his drafts is a separate discussion than first ROUND picks. Jordy should be included in that discussion, Matthews wouldn't.

I'm not sure what the disagreement is about? Is someone saying he's bad at drafting players because his first rounds have been a mixed bag? There's more to the draft than 1st rounders. Rounds 2-5 he has killed it. 6 and 7 are a crapshoot for every GM, but he's found some talent. UDFA has been a really solid area for him as well. He's a good drafting GM who has had mixed results drafting at the end of round 1...which the fact that he's picked in the top 10 one and picked lower than 20 two times overall should tell you how successful of a GM he is. The Packers have made a home drafting between 23 and 32. That's great when you compare it to other teams.

Disagree.

T-bucks' biggest contribution was teaching Wolf and Thompson that you can't win with little guys in GB as the winter rolls in.

 

Here's Ron Wolf talking about T-buck:

1992, CB Terrell Buckley (fifth overall selection): Buckley had three disappointing seasons in Green Bay, was nicknamed 'Toast', and was eventually released. Wolf had offensive lineman Bob Whitfield rated higher, but eventually settled on Buckley.

 

"The offense wanted a particular player, the defense wanted a particular player and I wanted a particular player," Wolf recalled. "And the end result, when it all broken down, the player I wanted is the player we should have taken. And the guy I wanted was Whitfield, and he's still playing (with Atlanta). That's one time I was probably right.

"We were never going to take (Eagles cornerback Troy) Vincent. If (Desmond) Howard and Buckley were gone, we were going to take Whitfield.

But what happened with the pick of Buckley is suddenly, we all realized, you can't play with little defensive backs in Green Bay. You can't play with little people up there in November and December. It's too hard. We had to get big people and a certain kind of person. So maybe that failed, but in the end result, we won because of it."

 

T-bucks' issue was that he sucked, not that the Packers didn't know how to use that suck. His shortness and general smallness were the issue and unless they gave him stilts there was nothing the Packers could have done to use him to his full potential. It was a seminal moment in the ongoing refinement of the Packers draft strategy.

Thorpey was all mouth and no production.

Still pisses me off that Wolf picked him instead of Troy Vincent.

Buckley's problem wasn't because he was a small guy in the cold. That's a bunk explanation from Wolf. He was just as bad in September and October and in domes, he just sucked, period. His worst play as a Packer? The 45 yard completion he allowed to Eric Guliford (his first, and only catch that year) that set up a game-winning FG for the Vikings. That play was in the Metrodome.

How in the blue hell was he supposed to do that?

 

I'm assuming you mean trade #85 & #121 to get higher than #77. And you have a willing trade partner too, yes?

 

Taking a look at that link from last years draft, Which team are you targeting to trade with? It isn't the Lions. I don't think the Rams wanted to give up Tre Mason in that slot. Perhaps the Giants? Ok, let's go with them. Since the Bills at #73 took an ILB, they probably aren't going to trade.

 

It's probably going to cost more than #85 & #121 to get up to #74 to draft Borland. Did you happen to see what the Giants wanted from the Niners to move up & draft Odell Beckham Jr? Here's a recap

 

Last year, the 49ers opted not to trade up for Pro Bowl WR Odell Beckham Jr. because the asking price was too steep, as the 49ers would’ve lost multiple draft picks which ended up being DB Jimmie Ward, ILB Chris Borland and RB Carlos Hyde.

 

Baalke told 95.7 The Game back in Dec., “You would have been giving up (defensive back) Jimmie Ward, you would have been giving up (center) Marcus Martin or (linebacker) Chris Borland, and you would have been giving up (running back) Carlos Hyde, plus somebody else. So maybe you’d have given up three, young, quality players to go get one.”

 

So now you need to either give up a current player....or #161 (Which is Corey Linsley)

 

A team isn't going to give up a higher selection in the draft without something in return. It's highly competitive & not so easy when you look at it objectively. 

 

We didn't get Borland. Yeah I'd have LOVED to have him last year. (or any competent LB'er, quite frankly) It didn't happen, let's move on.

No - I'm saying that in 2008, TT turned the Packers' first round draft pick into Jordy Nelson and the 121st pick in the 4th round (which was used in other trades).  If we're analyzing TT's first round performance, why not consider this Jordy trade?  He took a first round pick and turned it into another pick and a pro-bowl WR.  Seems like that's worth mentioning.  

And Boris, I'm not saying it SHOULD have happened.  I'm saying in 100% hindsight, it's what COULD have happened.  I'm not crying it didn't happen because you can't bat 1.000 in the draft.  It's like expecting your cleanup hitter to bat .900.  

 

My point was "yes, this could/should have happened and we can post scenarios but it didn't and let's move on".  

Enough of this backwards looking BS, what's done is done. Ted has won in the draft more than he's lost, the last two years have been outstanding hauls, He drafted the best QB in football.  

 

As we get into week 2 of free agency, or what I like to call "the early days of Ted's wheelhouse", I wouldn't mind it if Ted took a long hard look at Rob Housler. 6'5" 250lb 26 year old TE with 4.6 speed. He can't block a damn thing. He doesn't run great routes. He can open a seam faster than IC can open a Blue Moon. He's put up ok numbers playing with garbage at QB. He has a huge "There is an awful lot to work with here..." factor to him. He needs a change of scenery out of AZ and a decent QB. Would I be ok giving up a 7th round pick for a former TE taken 69th in 2011??? You bet I would. 

Then went on to play 10 MORE NFL seasons, recording at least one interception in each of his 13 seasons before retiring with 50 career interceptions (tied for 35th most in NFL history) and a SB ring.

 

He fits in the Solid Contributor category IMO. Just couldn't do it in GB. Flat out saying he sucked is an ignorant stance.

Players who belong in the NFL but draw the ire of fools because, after all, they were drafted with a sure fire, never miss, all pro guaranteed, 1st round pick:  2006 Hawk (5), 2009 Raji (9), 2012 Perry (28), 2013 Jones (26).

The problem wasn't the draft position or selection, it was the horrible contract extensions. He hasn't made the same mistake with Raji, will see what he does with Perry and Jones. 

 

The only 1rst rounder that I hated was Justin Harrell.  Guy couldn't stay on the field since High School. 

Complicating agreement is that Tony Mandarich played six seasons and was the regular starter on his team for four.

He would have been a good fit as a purely slot corner. He was miscast as an outside corner, but he'd be the type of guy you'd want covering guys like Cobb, Edelman, Welker, Sproles, etc.

There weren't really slot receivers as we think of them now in the early 1990s when Buckley came in. The model was the Lofton/Rice type, taller rangy guys. Even the smaller guys didn't work the middle of the field.

 

But your point is well taken, maybe T-Buck could've done that. Biggest thing in his career was that he was forced to grow up to an extent after GB let him go. Before that he was fixated on being a mini-me version of Deion Sanders with the showboating and the yapping.

Yup.  Back in the 90's and earlier, you couldn't be a small receiver and work the middle of the field.  Safeties and linebackers would be drooling to light them up.  When they changed the rules to limit contact, small receivers finally had a place in the game.  The guys who used to work the middle of the field were big, solid guys and they were called "possession receivers".  Guys like Keyshawn Johnson, who weren't fast enough to go down field, made their living getting hit in the middle of the field and bouncing right back.  Guys like Cobb, Welker, Edelman, Sproles, Collie, etc. would never have survived in the middle of the field back then.  

Ted's teams have won just as many Super Bowls as the legendary Ron Wolf's teams have.  That's good enough for me.

So once a modern Packers team wins the Super Bowl they should fire the GM and cut their QB if they want to win another?

I know you are just funnin'...I am just saying regardless of his picks, his methods have worked as well as Wolf's to this point if you measure by number of championships, which is what I care about!

Very good point & one that's often overlooked. It's not just the first pick or the first round. The entire draft is important. It's not where you're selected but what you do in the NFL that matters. TT drafts football players & I'm praying he can re-stock the cupboards again here in 2015 as we all cheer him on!

 

That one is definitely a head-scratcher. I really wanted DB that year & was convinced that was the way TT was going. Weird, weird pick for sure (& obviously his worst) when looking at TT's overall body of work.

Ummm just heard Tramon signed a deal with the Browns.  Hoping it's not true....

 

EDIT: Should have looked in the other thread....damn that sucks.  

Oh it's true alright. 

 

What are the chances GB get's two 3rd round comp picks for Tramon and House next year? Think 3rd rounders is being a little too optimistic? Shouldn't be less than two 4th rounders. 

@jasonjwilde: Darren Sharper. Al Harris. Charles Woodson. Tramon Williams. #Packers' clearly believe in getting rid of aging DBs too early vs. too late.

 

@AaronNagler: Belichick let Revis & Browner walk, Packers fans. Ted let go of Tramon and House. These men know what they're doing. Chill.

Wooooooo ! Feel better now ? Good. I do too.

I finally got you off your ass to do some research to back up your football takes.

And I even got some ALL CAPS...   That really says something

 

Thanks for making me feel special today.

Ted doesn't ALWAYS know what he's doing. He thought M.D. Jennings, A.J. Hawk and Brad Jones were capable of starting.

 

 

Don't sell yourself short. You are special every day.

Comp picks should be no worse than 4th rounders looking at those deals.

I hope they both kill it in Cleveand & Jacksonville. 2 - 3rd round comp picks would be sublime.

@ByRyanWood: Tramon Williams allowed 10 TDs last season, per @PFF. Double his second-highest season (2008). He allowed 10 TDs total in 2011, 2012, 2013.

 

@ByRyanWood: In 2010, Williams' opposing passer rating was 43.8, per @PFF. It balooned to 106.5 last year. He had 9 games with at least 104 OPR in 2014.

See those numbers? That's why he was offered 2 years $8 million by green bay

Thanks cuqui.

Can't wait to see Tramons guaranteed money. Really happy for him.

As much as I would have liked his veteran presence/leadership in 2015, always better to let a player walk a year early vs signing and watching him deteriorate right before your eyes.

 

At this position, even the best CB's can lose it overnight.

 

 

TT subconsciously whiffs in the first round to save $$ and cap space. FACT!

 

Good news: Tramon and I have same b-day: 3.16

Bad news: He signed with the Browns on his b-day

If you looked at cuquis link to acmepacking, you'll see we picked up a young talent off a practice squad. Check it out when you can.

It's develop time, especially for Heyward & hopefully Goodson

Tramon earned over $35 million in his career including $9 million last year

The Packers offered another $4 or so this year...

Yet Tramon made a money-before-football decision. That surprises me

 

Even a poor money manager should be on Easy Street by now

 

 

Tramon had a nice GB career, made some good plays over the years, too bad I will remember his last play as a Packer.

 

Good Luck Tramon.

In TT we trust for not overpaying.   And, in Whitt we trust to coach up the replacements. 

Only one team with an "A" grade in free agency.  I'll bet you can guess the team.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/w...teams-but-only-one-a