DurangoDoug posted:The thing about rookie TE's is they tend to take 2-3 years to develop into something good (from what I've heard). If the Pack were to draft one (or two) this year keeping Graham around another year to help mentor the new guy is smart.
We've never gotten one from Iowa though. They're a different breed.
Breed. Different. Iowa.
I see what you did there. 
Racist?
Animalistic.
Baaaaaaa. Thaaaaaat's my daaaaad….
I kid because I love. Iowa is a good place to be from.
Only if you would be from Minnesoda instead.
I've believed Graham is coming back, but man, I'd love to see his cash spent with greater return.
One of Gutey's clear blunders. He compounded his mistake by not letting him walk after last year.
He's a great locker room guy.
It's not fantasy football
michiganjoe posted:One of Gutey's clear blunders. He compounded his mistake by not letting him walk after last year.
Just curious if this was your opinion when Graham was originally signed...?
Pakrz posted:Most fans were disappointed by Graham's production in 2018. Hell, even he said that his numbers sucked. With that said, Graham was still the 9th best TE numbers wise in the league with 55 catches for 636 yards for an average of over 11 yards per catch. My guess is that MLF will get a lot more production out of Graham in 2019.
Well 2019 hasn't worked out for shit. I'll be pretty damn disappointed if Gute brings this guy back, especially at his current salary. He's terrible at this point in his career.
Yes, he's a great locker room guy but even AR has stopped saying in his pressers "we've got to get 88 the ball", as he was early in the season. Would not shock me if he gets far fewer snaps in playoffs.
I hope you meant 80 because 88 is on the practice squad. Evan Baylis.
I loved the Graham signing.
Probably why I would be a shitty GM
Bear fan friend was terrified of the Graham signing.
I've been saying it since they lost Jermichael Finley.
Need a dynamic TE
Didn't they have one in Jared Cook? Thanks Ted.
FinnLander posted:Just curious if this was your opinion when Graham was originally signed...?
Nope, fine with the initial signing just obvious after the first year it was a mistake.
ammo posted:I hope you meant 80 because 88 is on the practice squad. Evan Baylis.
Sorry, have seen him making plays so rarely that I forgot his number
What he's most consistent at is falling down.
This smells like a I'm retiring tweet..
This becomes harder every time you see others raise that trophy! I’m blessed and proud of these guys for battling to prove a lot of people wrong. Thank you for sticking by me for 10 years. I have given everything I have in pursuit of a ring. I am in your debt for believing in me. pic.twitter.com/0RxEt1czQL
— Jimmy Graham (@TheJimmyGraham) January 21, 2020
DH13 posted:Graham didn't take advantage of various opportunities we all saw this season. However he did draw a lot of coverage early in the year until defenses figured out they didn't have to focus on him as much as they were. The concurrent problem was the WR drop off after 17, predominantly in the slot. OR GB needed to stress both boundaries on plays they wanted to get Graham the ball between the hashes. Instead, defenses could focus on 17...and then everyone else without worrying about Graham because he wasn't really hurting anyone anymore. He needs a legit #2 WR as much as the offense does.
It's not groundhog day yet but I posted this almost a year ago.
These assertions of needing skill position talent are unfounded.
That said, I'm not sure what Graham has to offer at this point. I would like to see if EQ can come back and continue to grow. He seemed to be getting a lot of slot snaps and being a tall SOB himself he and Graham could possibly do some damage. Lazard and EQ are wildcards IMO. Get a legit #2 and those two guys could come up big. At minimum they would make a solid 3 and 4 for now. How Graham plays into it or if he plays into it at all remains to be seen and it would appear Lazard was getting TE looks already (DH13 is a meanie). Considering how unclear the roles are outside of Adams anything is possible.
Gmo, MVS and WWJ need to find employment elsewhere along with Graham's cap number.
My guess is it's pretty much a complete overhaul at wideout beyond Adams. Sternberger blocked much better than I had anticipated and am excited to see what he can do in his second year.
michiganjoe posted:My guess is it's pretty much a complete overhaul at wideout beyond Adams. Sternberger blocked much better than I had anticipated and am excited to see what he can do in his second year.
Yep. Sternberger will stick for obvious reasons. I think Lazard, MVS and EQ come in as camp bodies. If they shock MLF and the offense and look worlds better, then wonderful. But I do not believe Gutey is going to assume any of that. He will make whole sale changes regardless, starting in FA.
Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper among a couple of names to replace Graham. Ebron, Hollister, Tyler Eifert, etc are cheaper options as well.
Tonyan had an injury to deal with but the expectations for him didn't quite work out. Really thought the three drafted receivers would work out a lot better than they did and his whole 2018 draft was pretty disappointing other than the first-round pick.
In retrospect, it's pretty obvious the roster TT handed off to him wasn't as good as many thought.
Sternberger has a great opportunity in front of him. Sure hope he hits the weight room, though... kid looks scrawny for that position.
michiganjoe posted:My guess is it's pretty much a complete overhaul at wideout beyond Adams. Sternberger blocked much better than I had anticipated and am excited to see what he can do in his second year.
Tonyan is restricted so he will be a dirt cheap #3 or #4. No reason to walk away from him.
michiganjoe posted:In retrospect, it's pretty obvious the roster TT handed off to him wasn't as good as many thought.
Gutey has already gutted most of the defensive talent TT left for him.
He will definitely let Fackrell go without much fight in free agency and my guess from his reaction after the loss on Sunday is that Martinez knows he's not getting paid by GB either.
Thus, after just over 2 years of Gutey on the job, the only defensive holdovers from TT's final roster who will likely remain on the roster as of March of 2020 are Kenny Clark, Kevin King, and Dean Lowry.
And you got to think that Gutey is kicking himself for giving Lowry a new contract last off-season.
Henry posted:
Gmo, MVS and WWJ need to find employment elsewhere along with Graham's cap number.
Gmo is FA, I am guessing he gone.
MVS under contract through 2021 season...granted cutting him wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but given his speed, I am guessing they hang on to him one more year at least to see if they can coach his hands up.
Graham's cap number is a problem. So is Linsley's. Linsley would be the 6th highest paid C in the NFL at $8.5M, ahead of guys like Alex Mack, Markeice Pouncey and Travis Frederick.
There is fat to be trimmed.
Here's the best site I've found for this.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/cap/
Graham is set to earn 12 million next year between his salary and roster bonus, but only counts 3.7 million against the cap if they release him. I could see Gute offering him 4 or 5 million to keep him around. He's not worth 12 million, but he might be worth keeping around for an extra 1 million relative to what he'll cost to cut.
Bakh is probably a candidate for an extension at this point.
Bakh, Clark and Jizzones all need to be locked up long term.
Graham should be gone. I know Rodgers likes him, but he's just not physically capable anymore. I'd rather keep Lewis for a small contract. Tonyan I see as a field stretcher, while Sternberger is probably more well-rounded and a better blocker. In a two-TE set, any combination of the three could be dynamic.
I think we keep Lazard and MVS. They both come cheap and I still think Lazard has some skills our WRs sorely lack, namely toughness and willingness to fight for contested balls. Lazard would benefit by working out with Adams all offseason to learn more about quickness, route-running, and setting up defenders.
Bulaga is a no-brainer to keep, but I wouldn't pay him top, top dollar unless he can stay on the field. If Veldheer is willing to come back, I'd go with him. Hopefully, Madison can push or take over for Turner. Lindsley... I think we're stuck with him. It would be tough to jettison Bulaga and Lindsley and not have Veldheer return. Madison has barely played in two years, and we really don't know if he can play at this level. Taylor is gone -- how fast did he go downhill?!
On D, we're in a 50-50 situation with Tramon. Had a better year than anyone thought he would, but he's closer to 40 than Rodgers is. How much longer can he keep it up and do we want to bet on that? Greene/Campbell are pretty interchangeable.
While I like Martinez for his field general capabilities, I don't want to have to pay him top-10 coin because he's flat up against his athletic ceiling. If Martinez came cheap, I'd keep him for depth and break in someone new; if he wants $8 million, let someone else pay it. Basically, unless Summers shows something new this spring, we have to start from scratch at the ILB position and we probably need to get some OLBs behind the Smiths.
Big decisions to make...
Graham's production could be replaced by a UFDA at 5% of his salary.
JMHO, others may vary.
I feel like Graham was improved from last year. I don't think he is deserving of his current contract, but I give him credit for buying into the new coaches system, MLF is only 7 years older, and being a good teammate.
His blocking improved drastically this year. He made some off the ball plays that contributed to points / wins.
Thanks for your time here Jimmy, but you're not an elite pass catcher anymore so GBP can't afford to pay you like you are.
Plus he shy's away from contact whenever possible and goes down at first touch, ala clydesdale.
MichiganPacker2 posted:Here's the best site I've found for this.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/cap/
Graham is set to earn 12 million next year between his salary and roster bonus, but only counts 3.7 million against the cap if they release him. I could see Gute offering him 4 or 5 million to keep him around. He's not worth 12 million, but he might be worth keeping around for an extra 1 million relative to what he'll cost to cut.
To be fair he's making $8M, the cap hit is $12M. Either way he's not a value at either price. I imagine he will call it a career rather than hang on at a lower price or start over with a new team.
GM Brian Gutekunst said it's his understanding that TE Jimmy Graham wants to play next year. Graham is under contract with the Packers for 2020 for $8 million, the final year of his three-year deal.
— Rob Demovsky (@RobDemovsky) January 24, 2020
I'd like to play for $8M next year, too, but it's not happening.
