Plusses (+) and Minuses (-) Packer at Chiefs

Boris posted:

ammo posted:

Why does everyone keep saying Lazard will be a #3 when Adams returns?  I like MVS too, but Lazard should be #2 and starting. 

MVS can take the top off a defense -- I guarantee he's #2 & as great a story as Lazard is, he is not MARQUEZ VALDEZ SCANTLING!! Besides, the Good morning football crew on NFL Network loves saying his name Below are his stats this year. Look at that per catch average. He's explosive..something Lazard will never be.

22

420

19.1

74T

2

While there is nothing rong with explosive, I like the guy who i know will catch the ball and hang onto it.  Shorter plays that lead to long time consuming drives gives our D some rest, rest they really need since our depth on that side of the ball is not so great.  3rd and 25 sure MVS is needed, but 3rd and 3, I want Lazard on the field.

+  Alex Light didn't embarrass himself.   In fact, I forgot he played which is a sign he did a really good job. 

+ We probably lose that game if Jason Spriggs is our swing Tackle. Alex Light stepped up big time when both Bahk and Bulaga went out.

+ We have our #2 receiver- his name is Aaron Jones !! 

+ Loving the way Lazard is making the most of his opportunity - all gas !! 

+ We probably lose that game if Mike McCarthy is our coach. The MLF offense, as advertised, has route concepts that scheme the RB and TE open. Gives me wood.

+ For all of the many and frequent Jamal Williams haters - told you , he can play

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- Seems each game our Special Teams are the worst on the field. As I mentioned  last week - thankfully we have a good kicker and good punter, cause the rest of the ST is really bad. Shepard is in over his head. BTW Rizzi has NO ST playing pretty well !! 

- Other than the strip by Lancaster our Defensive Line has kinda been underwhelming. 6 tackles by Kenny Clark, Tyler Lancaster, Dean Lowry, and Montravious Adams last night. Easy for an opposing offense to scheme against Clark when the rest of the group is so pedestrian...really expected more from Montravious. If Gute can't work a deal for a WR, would like to see him get a Fat Boy to ease the reps Kenny Clark is getting.

- Multiple games where our LB gets lost in coverage. Scheme is partly to blame, but so is personnel. Blake is solid at times, but he can't cover. Interesting that Oren Burks was completely out of the game plan(0 snaps on D?) when his speed is his best attribute. He played a bunch on ST( 20 snaps). As said, we miss Raven Greene. 

- Would like to see MVS get more involved. Looks like he's getting open. 

Great win and great to be 7-1 !!! 

DH13 posted:

@SF

@DET

@MIN

toughest 3 games left.

Ah, ALL games are tough.  Hope the Packers don’t “overlook” any team.....ya know, kinda like Bucky overlooked Illinois.  

Lazard is the perfect possession guy. MVS takes the top off the defense. You need both. Maybe Lazard will work his way toward #2. I don't see it but hey he's doing good. Right now....MVS is #2 & it isn't even close

You're right.  All games vs all teams, home or away are all equally harrd.  No difference.

Found on the internet: 

When you have a fast player like Tyreek Hill you have a CB jam him up at the line with a safety ready to relay and take the 2nd part of the job. This will also tire Tyreek down having to be more physical at the line of scrimmage .

Packers learned to do this when they faced Randy Moss in his prime after he racked up 200+ yards in his 1st game as a rookie!!

Lazard could be the filthiest 3rd WR in the NFL if he keeps getting himself open the way he has the last two weeks. 

You have to account for Adams and MVS you have no safeties left. Lazard 1 on 1 with a scrub corner?  Good luck and God Bless. 

Biggest positive.......I have Rodgers and Jones on my fantasy team.  That 67 yard TD took me from 13 points down to 7 points ahead, sealing my victory.  

Jones playing this well is a huge indictment of MM.  Jones was this good last year when he got the chance but.......he rarely got the number of snaps he's getting now.  And I'm sure Jones has his issues in certain situations but LaFleur seems to be putting the guys he has in the best possible position to succeed, which was one my biggest criticisms of MM.  I will credit MM with making him learn how to pick up the blitz because Jones certainly has learned how to do that.  

Linsley ran 15 yards to block a guy downfield that was supposed to be there based on film that sprung Jones. 

MLF is clearly deep diving film the way Smiley and I break down The assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford. Always something to unpack. 

+ We're 7-1, including road wins against our two toughest division rivals.

+ Both Aarons played well.

+ We're not Cleveland Browns fans.

+ We're winning without Davante Adams.

+ The team seems relatively healthy (hope I didn't jinx it) and we still have the bye-week coming up.

- I don't like our QB taking that many sacks.

- I don't like our franchise QB running that much.

- I get worried when Bakhtiari is sitting out.

CUPackFan posted:

Jones playing this well is a huge indictment of MM.  Jones was this good last year when he got the chance but.......he rarely got the number of snaps he's getting now.  And I'm sure Jones has his issues in certain situations but LaFleur seems to be putting the guys he has in the best possible position to succeed, which was one my biggest criticisms of MM.  I will credit MM with making him learn how to pick up the blitz because Jones certainly has learned how to do that.  

Jones is showing surprising adeptness at catching balls >10yds.  But to be fair, AJ was not the receiver last year that he is today.  He worked on that a lot over the offseason.  Hope he stays healthy.

ammo posted:

Boris posted:

ammo posted:

Why does everyone keep saying Lazard will be a #3 when Adams returns?  I like MVS too, but Lazard should be #2 and starting. 

MVS can take the top off a defense -- I guarantee he's #2 & as great a story as Lazard is, he is not MARQUEZ VALDEZ SCANTLING!! Besides, the Good morning football crew on NFL Network loves saying his name Below are his stats this year. Look at that per catch average. He's explosive..something Lazard will never be.

22

420

19.1

74T

2

While there is nothing rong with explosive, I like the guy who i know will catch the ball and hang onto it.  Shorter plays that lead to long time consuming drives gives our D some rest, rest they really need since our depth on that side of the ball is not so great.  3rd and 25 sure MVS is needed, but 3rd and 3, I want Lazard on the field.

2 vs 3 isn't a big deal. They will both play a majority of snaps. 3 vs 4 is a big deal. 4 only sees about half the snaps. Right now I'd say with Adams you have MVS, Lazard then Geronimo. Anyone else will spend a lot of time on the bench or ST's. 

A new negative came up today. Due to this game and overall success the Packers are now a hot commodity again for eyeballs. The Nov 10th Panthers game has been moved back to 3:30pm. I was planning on being home in time to get a decent nights sleep. Might have to go into work late on the 11th. 

Is that really such a bad thing?

++++++ The drive to ice the game,  backed up on the 2 yard line, everyone and their brother new we need to run the ball,  and we rammed it down their throats.  Might be the most impressive drive of the season.

edit:  ++++++ 7-1

Great read on how they put the game away.

https://packerswire.usatoday.c...-throw-it-to-jonesy/

The Pepper Assassin posted:

+ We're 7-1, including road wins against our two toughest division rivals.

+ Both Aarons played well.

+ We're not Cleveland Browns fans.

+ We're winning without Davante Adams.

+ The team seems relatively healthy (hope I didn't jinx it) and we still have the bye-week coming up.

 

 

- I don't like our QB taking that many sacks.

- I don't like our franchise QB running that much.

- I get worried when Bakhtiari is sitting out.

 

 

 

After seeing Light fill in for Bakh, I'm less worried if Bakh has to sit out for a short time. Drafting or acquiring Oline help in FA should be on Gute's menu come next Spring.

My heart skipped a beat when I heard Light was in the game.  With Bulaga going into free agency and zero depth, OT has to be a huge focus in the offseason.  I feel better knowing that Gute drafted Jenkins, who looks like a stud just 8 games into his career.  

     0 sacks given up by Elgton Jenkins   

Twitter experts are very high. On the blockit man.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4Ja_DmnpJm/

Astute audible

On third and 2 at the Green Bay 10-yard line with 3 minutes, 40 seconds left Sunday night, the Packers lined up in a passing formation.

When receiver Allen Lazard motioned from right to left, Rodgers saw something and decided to change the play. With the crowd roaring and the Chiefs desperate for one more crack at the end zone, he called on Aaron Jones one more time.

Rodgers went to the line, relayed the change to the offensive linemen and handed the ball off to Jones, who proceeded to run 4 yards for a first down.

“It was a great audible,” Jones said. “I guess he saw the ‘B’ gap was going to be open. And it opened up. I took it and protected the ball and got the first down. It let us keep the clock rolling.”

https://www.jsonline.com/story...-m-start/2460060001/

One thing I noticed watching highlights. The AJ TD where he shoved his blocker forward to get to the goal line was a great play. That one fits with the Jamaal Williams stiff arm (vs OAK?) as little things that are so great to see out of this team. Someone also mentioned the Linsley hustle to spring Jones on the quick screen. Their heads are in the game and they've reached a point where they're paying attention to detail. Beautiful to witness.

skully posted:

     0 sacks given up by Elgton Jenkins   

Joe Kipp‏ @JuhKipp 

 

Sacks given up by #Packers offensive linemen in 2019:

Billy Turner: 3                                                                                                                 Corey Linsley: 2                                                                                                             Lane Taylor: 1                                                                                                                David Bakhtiari: 1                                                                                                        Elgton Jenkins: 0                                                                                                            Bryan Bulaga: 0                                                                                                              Total: 7

Where is this math coming from?  Am I missing something here?  Only 7 sacks given up by the oline in 2019?  Okay.

Maybe some of the sacks are credited to Rodgers?    Like last game, they showed he held the ball for literally 8 seconds before getting sacked.    You can't assign that sack to an O linemen.  Maybe it should go to the WR group..   

I think I read he was sacked 5x vs KC.

I don't want to get the Kumerow stuff started again, but that boy made some great catches Sunday night.
He made one about 5 minutes into the game, sliding on his knees to catch a sinking throw from a scrambling Rodgers (on a 3rd-and-9!) that was outstanding, setting up Jones' first TD.

http://www.nfl.com/voting/play...nd-ground/2019/REG/8

Guess who for Air again

Timmy:

Oh pshaw, nothing to start.  Henry and I put each other on blast once every 2 years or so is all.

Both good plays, no real targets after that.  Couple throw aways in his direction.   Looks like he's at #4 on the depth chart so snaps overtaken by Lizard.  It's all good.

Bet you didn't know this though, he has a huge following in Hungary of all places!

A whole lot of positives here including Rodgers, A Jones, J WIlliams, Lazard, MLF, 7-1!!! . On the negative side, the special teams aren't very special and while this defense does make plays I certainly do not trust them at least yet. They still give up way too many explosive plays.

Timmy! posted:

I don't want to get the Kumerow stuff started again, but that boy made some great catches Sunday night.

Some great catches? He had two, two receptions. Don't make him greater than he is.  Or isn't . 

Great effort on the 2nd reception.

For being on the receiving end of such a high passer rating per target, odd he doesn't see the ball more.

Maybe TIMMY! was including pregame warmups and passes from that Joe guy.

Henry posted:

skully posted:

     0 sacks given up by Elgton Jenkins   

Joe Kipp‏ @JuhKipp 

 

Sacks given up by #Packers offensive linemen in 2019:

Billy Turner: 3                                                                                                                 Corey Linsley: 2                                                                                                             Lane Taylor: 1                                                                                                                David Bakhtiari: 1                                                                                                        Elgton Jenkins: 0                                                                                                            Bryan Bulaga: 0                                                                                                              Total: 7

Where is this math coming from?  Am I missing something here?  Only 7 sacks given up by the oline in 2019?  Okay.

I’m guessing Rodgers, RBs, other OL or TEs are charged for the rest. That seems consistent. There have only been 17 sacks, feels like Rodgers takes at least 1 per game by holding the ball and weve definitely seems Graham give up a couple. Light and Patrick have also played some snaps, so this seems right.

That Joe Kipp tweet was prior to the KC game.

Grave Digger posted:

Henry posted:

skully posted:

     0 sacks given up by Elgton Jenkins   

Joe Kipp‏ @JuhKipp 

 

Sacks given up by #Packers offensive linemen in 2019:

Billy Turner: 3                                                                                                                 Corey Linsley: 2                                                                                                             Lane Taylor: 1                                                                                                                David Bakhtiari: 1                                                                                                        Elgton Jenkins: 0                                                                                                            Bryan Bulaga: 0                                                                                                              Total: 7

Where is this math coming from?  Am I missing something here?  Only 7 sacks given up by the oline in 2019?  Okay.

I’m guessing Rodgers, RBs, other OL or TEs are charged for the rest. That seems consistent. There have only been 17 sacks, feels like Rodgers takes at least 1 per game by holding the ball and weve definitely seems Graham give up a couple. Light and Patrick have also played some snaps, so this seems right.

ooops, that's my fault,  you all are correct, in my haste to get a scoop,   and trying to put the text to the left hand margin, I also deleted the date of the tweeter, which was  Sat. Oct, 26.       but we are still  7-1

michiganjoe posted:

That Joe Kipp tweet was prior to the KC game.

Makes more sense now. Bulaga clearly allowed one sack in that game. 

YATittle posted:

MichiganPacker2 posted:

MM prioritized putting RBs on the field that could pass protect. That's why we saw guys like John Kuhn and Brandon Jackson on passing downs. It makes it easier to scheme against if you are the defensive coordinator, but it's a decent strategy when you have depth and talent at WR. Guys like the younger versions of Jordy, Jones, Cobb, Jennings, and Driver were very likely to get separation if you gave Rodgers extra time. Guys like Allison, MVS, Kumerow, Lazard, etc. are not as likely to get separation with the extra time that at Kuhn-type back gives you. Jones is a great receiving RB, a very good runner, and average in pass protection. MM took him off the field on passing downs because of the latter. 

He's no longer average on pass protect. Look it up.

I think the knock isn't so much getting run over anymore, it recognizing the blitz and who to actually block. I don't think Jones is that adept at it. Hell I know he doesn't know the pass route verbiage as he alluded to after the KC game. 

On his TD catch they told him go over there and do this. He didn't know what the okay call actually was for him.

Yeah he's been a rock in pass pro this year. That's been my biggest complaint with him in his young career and it's why I didn't think he should be on the field 3 downs, he's been crappy in pass pro. Give him credit, he's improved dramatically.