Pos/Neg from Panthers Game

@Satori - 

Sitzpinkler schadenfreude is fun.  

Well, there was a turn.

There is nothing that bothers me about the win yesterday, nothing.  Offense and Defense were great (pretty sure I said so).  

In fact, nothing about the current run of victories bothers me.  It seems your criteria for being a fan is on the polyanna side.  I, on the other hand, can enjoy the games and subsequent discussion even admitting that there may be flaws on this team.  You refer to that as "bothering" me, maybe not the worst choice of words, but it is not like I am losing sleep.  I guess a similar question would be, why is it so painful to discuss what might be missing, rather than insisting nothing is wrong?  

As for your first fact, it is in fact a fact.  Perspective would have you consider that they have faced %80 more ****ty QB's than good ones (FACT).  You might win more boxing matches fighting chicks, but it doesn't make you a better boxer.  I will concede that this team, unlike last year, has a nose for turnovers (I love it- FACT).  That is what has me most excited about the potential of 2014.  

Your second fact is indisputable.  It is also a fact that tator tot casserole is the king of casseroles.  

Not sure how to respond to your first farce.  I guess I could go through and see if the middle and last teams have faced better cumulative QB rankings.  You first posed that QB's only play bad against the Pack, which would have been a super strong argument, but it wasn't true.  I don't think the Pack is #1 by accident, they are doing good things.  Just asking for perspective.  I've also never said anything tied to your second farce.  Simply put, every team has faced QB's this year (FACT) and the ones the Pack faced have in general been poor, in general, not just against the Pack.  

3rd Fact- yes.  Also, tator tot casserole without tater tots is not tater tot casserole.  

4th fact- Also true.  in fact, JJ Watt has more tackles than Davante Adams.  

Is it a possibility this defense is for real?  Most certainly.  I don't think they got where they are by accident or chance.  Like I said before, most encouraged by the turnovers.  Am I cautious?  Yuppers.  Defense has not been good for three years, that will make anyone skeptical.  The one really good offense they faced raped them.  That'll temper some people just a little bit.  As the sample increases, if they hold serve, of course my concerns will become less (til the playoffs, still pretty burned by those playoff hemorrhages).  

Still enjoying the games, still enjoy talking about the games.  

Why does it bother you I enjoy it in a different way?  

 Scratch that, I don't really care.  The "what makes a fan" argument bores me.  

I knew House banged up a finger.... what happened to Burnett?

What does Woody Harrelson think of the defense?

House's finger is OK. Said he fully expects to practice on Wed. They are just going to tape it.

Tramon said other then normal soreness, he felt pretty good and ankle held up well.

No one asked MM today about any injury to Burnett. I think he's OK or was yanked in the 4th to give Richardson some reps.

A wise man once told me stats are for losers.  I'm so confused. 

quote:

Perspective would have you consider that they have faced %80 more ****ty QB's than good ones (FACT).

QB rating was the topic, try to keep up

Exactly!  The difference is in the finished product.  I'm being facetious about the "no talent" part but it's this "Dom get's no players" bit.  How many UDFAs or low rounders have washed out at LB?  We may get a flash here and there but then you have the perpetual "development" guys as well.  Whitt takes two "scrubs" at one of the toughest positions in football and they shine.  Is this a case of TT can't spot LB talent worth two beans vs. his eye for skill positions?  Maybe.  But the "Dom on a deserted island" crap is just that, crap. 

I don't think it is that Thompson can't spot ILB talent, but more that he hasn't put a lot of value on doing so. The game is about passing and getting to the passer. Neither of those facets make ILB a high priority. Or, could be Thompson got shell-shocked by the suck that is 5th overall pick Hawk so he's hesitant to pull that trigger again.

As for Whitt getting scrubs to shine, what about Bush? Have to have something there to work with. Whitt has done a very good job with Shields and Williams.

Winston Moss must be either one hell of an administrator with the non-game duties of coaching, or he has pictures. And the latter makes no sense 'cause this place is littered with pictures of StupidFace.

Tramon Williams just basically blamed the past secondary's struggles on coaching.

"He said sometimes in the past, they'd prepare for something, but not enough so that when they got to the game they were completely comfortable handling what was thrown at them."

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/279818402.html

As I said, I think MM stepping in to take a stronger hand is what is lighting a fire under Capers and the other D coaches. 'bout time.

Players having input on the schemes/DEF game planning.

"At the end of the day we’re the ones out there, so we have to be comfortable," Williams said. "I think the communication line has been really well between coaches and players and the understanding has been really good between us of understanding what we see on the field, trusting what they see on the film and in their game-plan and adding that all in together and coming up with a game plan.

It's much easier to dismiss my posts if you put them in the category of polyanna isn't it ?

I figure the EOR side is so well-covered here, that I just like being the contrarian.

My criteria for being an intelligent fan is that you are honest in your opinions and try not to let your prejudices get in the way. Not any easy task for anybody, myself included

FYI -  THIS defense hasn't existed for more than a couple of months. Its new, its a hybrid, its filled with new starters on the DL, at LB and at Safety. They play a 3-4 and a 4-3 and a 5 LB defense and many more that will roll out during the season. They have different alignments and different assignments.  I wrote in-depth posts on many occasions this summer, detailing all the changes that I was able to uncover from years past. MM rolled up his sleeves too.

So...."Its been going on for 3 years ! " holds no water imo

BTW - Why did you pick 3 years instead of 4 ? 

The Packers defense went as far as they possibly could under the Fat-Man plan ( Super Bowl Champions)- and when the Fat-Man plan didn't work anymore, they switched to a new strategy. Kinda, sorta what you'd hope a DC would do under the circumstances.

( with some help from MM)

So: new players, new strategy and re-inventing yourself is under way.

Its a different year, a different defense and you are all free to enjoy it any way you like

Finally, I will answer your question:  

"I guess a similar question would be, why is it so painful to discuss what might be missing, rather than insisting nothing is wrong?  "

I have never ever suggested that nothing is wrong, far from it.

What I have said and will continue to say is that you / I don't know squat.

All we know is that the people with the training, skillset and experience made a different choice than you have advocated with regards to Capers and the defense.

Take that for what it's worth and enjoy the season

Go Packers

I've always thought that a GM would 'build' at team to compete within their division first.
Considering we were facing AP in Minnesota, Forte in Chicago, and, more recently, Bush in Detroit, I'd think it would make ILB a higher priority.

TT hasn't necessarily drafted that way, and I'd guess the majority of his picks or UFDAs have played to potentials of their draft positions.

FWIW, I hope we can find some replacements in next year's draft. There are LBs available every year that can run and hit even if they are not first-round talent, and it's just a matter of finding one or more that meets TT's "value" for that position.

..I was just thinking Sunday how less often we seem to have blown coverages this year. I assumed that Capers had simplified the system, but this seems to point to better practice preparation. Seems like Dom tended to overestimate the players ability to internalize gameplans with few reps.....big part of coaching. 

This thread would have really been something if Brad Jones started Sunday and GB lost 38-17. 

Burnett limped off the field in the 4th quarter.

In MM's post game interview he said Burnett got "kicked in the calf".

So Brad Jones kicked him in the calf?

I think this is somewhat accurate, actually. Getting two UDFAs to play to this level is definitely showing an eye for talent at the position. He's also found solid, contributing talent at Wide Receiver later. However, look at the truly good all-around players, especially at other positions. They're all higher draft picks outside of interior offensive linemen, and they're most often mid-round guys on most teams anyway.

Don't get me wrong, more high-round picks stick than low-round guys, period, and TT hasn't invested much in the ILB position. I also think some GMs are more in-tune with what their defense is doing in regards to their head coaches. McCarthy's an offensive guy and TT generally favors the offense and gets more guys that are good "fits". Pete Carroll's a defensive guy and Schneider's been better at grabbing defenders, even late. Guys like Capers and Bevell aren't ignored, per se, but the GMs do seem more... invested(?) in what their HC's area of expertise requires.

Regarding the #1 rank in opponent's passer rating and facing lots o bad QB's:  the ranking is interesting considering how they fared vs. SEA and DET.  I don't expect this D to stay there the rest of the season but then again I don't expect them to get embarrassed again like in WK1.  

NO

NE

DET  

These are the games that will tell us a lot more.  

I think one big reason the pass defense has been better is the health of Casey Hayward. Not only the plays he makes but the fact that he is another quality DB that keeps Bush and Richardson out of pass coverage situations that they were forced into last year.

Hayward and Ha Ha added to the defense is making a significant difference IMO. Factor in Peppers up front and I think we are in a much better position than we were a year ago.

It's football, not particle physics.  

Agreed, and the guys who coach/gm in this league aren't MIT rocket surgeons , some of them aren't even college grads and some of them majored in basket weaving

But I will also say that they've spent the 10,000 hours needed to become proficient at their craft and the more I learn about football, the more I realize how tiny our knowledge of the game really is.

10,000hrs?  What are they, the Beatles?

Add a healthy Perry and Neal to that list.  Without them being effective, Peppers would be wearing down, not to mention they're own individual effectiveness.

Well, TT did put out the "Help !" sign and Sgt Peppers answered the call

Here's an interesting stat: GB's defense has been on the field for 485 plays this year which ranks 31st in the league behind only Jacksonville. They are 25th in TOP at 31:56 per game while the offense is 27th in TOP at 28:04 and is 20th in plays with 410. However the offense is 4th best in points per game with 28.4 and the D is tied for 9th best with 21 points per game. 

To me that flies completely in the face of football logic...bad offenses get off the field quickly which puts the defense on the field more often leading to more points allowed. Surprisingly though, GB's defense has been on the field more than 30 other teams in the league yet they're allowing the same or fewer points than the 24 other teams. They're also tied for 2nd in the league in takeaways with 14 (10 INT 4 Fum. Rec.) so teams are getting plenty of opportunities against GB's D, but statistically they're not getting in the endzone very often and we are taking the ball away at least twice per game. Our offense is scoring really fast and our defense is not allowing other teams to do the same. 

To me all other stats are fluff. A good pass defense ranking can be indicative of a poor run defense and vice versa...which is actually what the stats indicate. However, and I've said this 1,000 times, it doesn't matter how many yards teams run or throw for if they can't get in the endzone. And right now teams aren't doing a great job getting in the endzone against GB despite plenty of opportunities. 

As noted, I think the yards and time of possession stats are skewed due to turnovers.

didn't want to start another thread so I'll drop it in here.

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/c...=16851&is_corp=1

According to Williams, in the past, some defensive players saw Capers as unapproachable – either because they didn’t think he’d take their suggestions under advisement, or for fear of coming across as disrespectful to one of the NFL’s most admired defensive coordinators.

Capers, meanwhile, went about his work not knowing that there was sometimes grumbling about his calls and schemes, since really only one player – Woodson – had ever taken it upon himself to speak up.

This year has been different. The defensive leaders – Capers cited Williams, Peppers, Hawk, Clay Matthews and Mike Daniels – realized that if they talked to their somewhat grandfatherly leader, he’d actually listen. And Capers became more proactive, seeking input from those players on their likes, dislikes and new ideas.

“I try at times to seek out the veteran guys and say, ‘How we doing? Do you feel OK about this?’ To try and generate conversation,” Capers explained. “I’m trying to do more of it because I think it’s important for the chemistry of your team that you don’t always profess to know all the answers. I think it’s important that they know you’re going to listen.

“If there’s something they don’t feel comfortable with, we won’t run it.”

Inexcusable attitude from Capers. Especially when you have someone as football savvy as Woodson on your D.

Although I do agree that it is inexcusable to not be more in tune with your players and their opinions, two things came to mind immediately:

1) NFL multimillionaires are afraid to speak their mind to an old man, who doesn't make personnel decisions and isn't the HC (so no fear of being cut), because they don't want to be disrespectful to a "revered NFL coordinator"? Gimme a break. That's either being a major league pu$$y or it's just excuse making by the players for not manning up and taking leadership.

2) Where are the position coaches, the HC, and Aaron Rodgers in this issue? Are the players too shy to talk to their position coaches or are the position coaches too chickensh*t to speak their mind to the "revered coordinator"? Or do they just not have a pulse for what their own players are thinking and feeling. And how can McCarthy not know that this is an issue or if he did then why didn't he nip it in the bud immediately? And how come no one brought it to Rodgers, who by all accounts has the respect of everyone in the lockerroom and is THE team leader. Certainly that's the point of having a team leader, bring it to Rodgers who brings it to McCarthy who addresses it. 

I refuse to believe that a good coach like McStupidface would allow this kind of culture to exist week in and week out since 2009 (since Capers has been here). Capers needs to get his head out of the sand and take the initiative to incorporate his players ideas and opinions BUT the players need to grow up and stop making excuses for the past and stop being intimidated by an old man when they are world class athletes. Two way street. 

WTF is Rob Davis (and Eliot Wolf) doing? If there are any issue like this it's their explicit job to see it, understand it and address it. IIRC Woodson was one of the main instigators behind the veterans taking the leadership role in the lockerroom and McCarthy and the Coordinators being more CEO types, but still, there are guys on staff who have specific jobs to work in situations like this between players and coaches/front office.

Something doesn't pass the smell test.      

Woodson has been gone awhile.

Hilarious on about 30 levels.

Can I get a breakdown? Was my criticism of Norv Capers not harsh enough? Did I not call him an idiot enough times?

Some of the stats for this team are beyond silly this year. Last week they were 27th in yards and 8th in scoring. HOW? Turnovers by our defense. The one we bash so heartily.