"Questions please?"--Hundley is our starter. I believe in Brett Hundley

He needs to be gone. He can't play the Chicago Bears every week, unfortunately.

Wow, he is completely throwing Mays under the bus. MM only has one back he believes in...

Question are easy....answers are tough

One full-, half-, quarter- back?

Hundley is a mess right now and that's on McCarthy.

Pikes Peak posted:

Question are easy....answers are tough

Especially the answers he is giving. This is embarrassing.

Really believe the best backup QB the Packers had in camp is on the Saints roster.

I thought Hundley had performed adequately enough for a backup quarterback in his starts so far, but today he completely undid all the positives up until now.  Complete meltdown.  Normally I would think a football player could not play any worse, but I have to think twice about that after watching Spriggs late in the ballgame.

You should be seeing Nathan Peterman "play" for the Bills - brilliant move by the Bills coaching staff to bench Tyrod.

What else can McStupidface say?  He put all his chips in on Hundley and it blew up in his face.  Much like his support for Dom Capers, this will be his undoing.  Nice knowing you Mike,  but it's time to update the resume.  

Hundley is breathtaking

bigdoggyjude posted:

Hundley is breathtaking

Like a punch to the solar plexus!

http://www.jsonline.com/story/...s-packers/873467001/

And the No. 3 guy the Packers have can’t even get a sniff of action because McCarthy refused to put him in the game against the Ravens. It’s likely Joe Callahan couldn’t have saved this loss, but are they going to wait like they did with Hundley, only to find out he can’t play in this offense?

Why then is he on the team?

For **** sakes, it's not like you're grooming your starter for the next 5 years!  He's a backup trying to patch together a couple of wins to possible keep the team afloat.  This commitment to a BACKUP that completely **** the bed is beyond me.  

I personally am fine with MM as a coach overall but I don't see anyway to fix the coaching/player positions without him being gone.  

Hundley < The Bones Sanford and Son

If Rodgers turns out to be healthy enough at the end of December to play, they will have thrown away an entire season because of negligence about the backup QB position. If they thought Hundley was going to be a capable backup QB who could allow them to compete if Rodgers missed a few games, someone should loser their job for not being able to even remotely evaluate QB play.

If they knew Hundley had these problems and didn't immediately go out and trade (or sign) a veteran QB when Rodgers got hurt (with a bye week coming up that they could have used to prep the guy), then someone should lose their job for effectively giving away an entire season with a HOF QB waiting to come back. I'm sure TT didn't want to "waste" a draft pick, but if you think Rodgers could come back, trade a 4th rounder for AJ McCarron or Colt McCoy, approach Tony Romo to try to entice him to play for his home state team, sign Kaepernick or Tebow, - do something.

If Rodgers is really done for the year, then this makes sense. That's the only way this makes sense.

That was jut so damn painful to watch yesterday. If I were a GM, I would never have a back-up QB without winning NFL experience. I'd want a guy who for one reason or the other is no longer starting material, but has won a number of games in the NFL and can win for you in a pinch. I'd have a third QB who if a high enough pick would make a third roster spot for or if not have him on my Practice Squad. Case Keenum perfect example of what I'm talking about in the positive, and Brett Hundley in the negative. Remember when Shaun Hill played well as a veteran backup for the Lions a few years ago? Guys like that are out there every year. We can't even win a couple of games to stay playoff competitive until Rodgers possibly comes back because Hundley can't play in the NFL. He is just f'in horrible. Horrible. I don't believe with more experience he'll be a whole lot better. He just doesn't have "it." And McCarthy and Thompson should have known that. And so much for McCarthy's reputation as a QB guru. What the hell have they been doing to get this guy ready the last 2+ years? My God, we didn't need him to be Aaron Rodgers, just show that he knows what the hell he's doing out there. A Super Bowl potential season down the drain because the Packers may actually have the worst backup QB out of 32 teams. Think about that. So extremely disappointed in Ted and Mike.

Henry posted:

For **** sakes, it's not like you're grooming your starter for the next 5 years!  He's a backup trying to patch together a couple of wins to possible keep the team afloat.  This commitment to a BACKUP that completely **** the bed is beyond me.  

I personally am fine with MM as a coach overall but I don't see anyway to fix the coaching/player positions without him being gone.  

I agree. The defense has talent. They've basically invested every premium pick they've has since they drafted Rodgers on defense or on the OL. The definition of insane is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. It may not be Dom's fault (I think it is), but something has to change. Dom's pushing 70 - it's time to try something new. It might be worse, it will probably be better, but for god's sake try something other than status quo.

On offense, there is enough talent to win with Rodgers. However, they have to put some fresh skill level position talent out there. Someone pointed out that they have not drafted a WR, TE, or RB with a pick higher than #50 overall since Jordy Nelson. They just have not invested in enough skill position talent out there in the last 6 drafts. Here's the guys they've drafted in the first 3 rounds on offense since 2012.

2017: No one

2016: Spriggs (Round 2 - 48th overall). Worst draft pick in TT's history.

2015: Monty (Round 3 - 94th overall). Good backup RB/WR.

2014: D. Adams (Round 2 - 53rd overall). RichRod (Round 3 - 98th overall)

2013: Lacy (Round 2 - 61st overall)

2012: No one

They've gotten some good OL in later rounds, but when you go 6 years without positively using a premium pick into your offense, it's eventually going to struggle. They've added D. Adams. That's really it.

What you said

PackerJoe posted:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/...s-packers/873467001/ 

Really good piece from Tom and a must read.

There is a possibility that learning from this won’t be enough. It’s possible that all the things that scouts said about Hundley when he came out of a spread offense at UCLA were true.

That's the conclusion I've reached.

MichiganPacker posted:

2016: Spriggs (Round 2 - 48th overall). Worst draft pick in TT's history.

Really? Justin Harrell?

michiganjoe posted:

There is a possibility that learning from this won’t be enough. It’s possible that all the things that scouts said about Hundley when he came out of a spread offense at UCLA were true.

And, un-fixable. All college players come out with some weaknesses, it's whether you can work around those and correct them.

Weaknesses sometimes can't be overcome, so when that is the case you leverage your strengths to compensate. McCarthy has not been putting Hundley in position to succeed. Leverage what Hundley can do.

Spriggs is the worst pick?   I beg to differ, sir. 

Bustin Harrell is probably #1 followed by that lazy POS Jerel Worthy and Datone Jones rounds out the Top 3.   I'd put Spriggs behind those guys IMO. 

It has been hit and miss with the defensive picks.  Casey Hayward, Collins, Daniels, CMIII,  Burnett, Raji, Perry and Dix have been decent.   I think King and Martinez and Kenny Clark will be decent.  Then there's Carl Bradford, Rollins, Randall, Thornton, Fackrell, not to mention the guys listed above.  

michiganjoe posted:

PackerJoe posted:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/...s-packers/873467001/ 

Really good piece from Tom and a must read.

There is a possibility that learning from this won’t be enough. It’s possible that all the things that scouts said about Hundley when he came out of a spread offense at UCLA were true.

That's the conclusion I've reached.

I'm not sure how he could see it as a "possibility".  You could get better play picking up a rehash vet off the street with a week's notice.  I honestly wouldn't have said this last week but Hundley is MM's ****ing albatross.  That is horrific play for a guy with "potential" after 3 years in camp.  The other thing is about his downsides coming out of the draft, you would assume in 3 years those would be the specific things they would be working on with Hundley.  It's beyond horrible. 

It’s pretty apparent Mike and staff have no real plan on offense without Rodgers. Hundley looks equal parts lost and unprepared. Starting to believe the scouting reports pegged him pretty well though. 

But. When MM decides to keep the offense on the field with 10 minutes left in the 3rd on 4th and 6 in a 13-0 game it’s totally fair game to question why he’d put his team in a tougher spot than they needed to be in. And then compound that decision with Hundley rolling out and either seeing nothing or having nothing and inexplicably eating the ball and take a 9 yard sack at midfield. I mean, throw it up for grabs if you have to. Maybe it’s a completion. Maybe it’s a pick that works out like a punt. Maybe it’s PI. Maybe it’s incomplete and you don’t give away another 9 yards of field position. 

Or.....

You do what you should do.  Punt and force a crappy Raven offense to go 90 yards. 

So much to be pissed off / concerned about based on everything we saw yesterday. 

Hungry5 posted:

MichiganPacker posted:

2016: Spriggs (Round 2 - 48th overall). Worst draft pick in TT's history.

Really? Justin Harrell?

I put Spriggs "ahead" of Harrell because Harrell had a bunch of bad injuries (back, ACL) even after he got to Green Bay that probably prevented him from at least be a serviceable rotation guy in the DL.

Spriggs, even when healthy, has looked like absolute ****. It's amazing a guy with those types of physical measurables will have what seems like multiple plays where he doesn't even make contact with a guy he's trying to block who is right in front of him.

Hungry5 posted:

michiganjoe posted:

There is a possibility that learning from this won’t be enough. It’s possible that all the things that scouts said about Hundley when he came out of a spread offense at UCLA were true.

And, un-fixable. All college players come out with some weaknesses, it's whether you can work around those and correct them.

Weaknesses sometimes can't be overcome, so when that is the case you leverage your strengths to compensate. McCarthy has not been putting Hundley in position to succeed. Leverage what Hundley can do.

I think he has. He's let him play in spread formation with shot gun snaps. That seems to be his only way to succeed. He can't make what appear to be simple progressions if his first read is covered. The offense right now when he drops back to pass is

1. Hey-Davante's open, I can throw it.

2. Uh oh - Davante's covered. OK. Think. What do I do now? I'll run backwards or sideways for no reason so I can think about this some more. OK. Now I'll throw a wounded duck or take a 15 yard sack (even if it's 4th down).

Actually the scouting report on Spriggs has been pretty accurate.  Very good athlete but questionable lower body strength and prone to get beaten on the bull rush.   I also don't think his technique is sound as he plays upright and doesn't always move his feet very well.  

Dude has the tools but needs to add some bulk and more importantly see a sports psychologist.  Or just line up and play Mike Daniels in practice until he can win that matchup.  He seems like a guy playing with zero confidence.  

As bad as Spriggs looked yesterday (he looks mentally broken) I’m giving Ted a bit of a pass because you can’t knock every OL pick out of the park. Teds been really good over the years but unfortunately he’s gonna miss sometimes. 

IMO. Jerel Worthy and Khyri Thornton are the worst picks Ted has made in GB. 

His technique sucks.  I get adjusting to the NFL game but it's not like he's just being overpowered, he's just flat getting beat.  

Tschmack posted:

It has been hit and miss with the defensive picks.  Casey Hayward, Collins, Daniels, CMIII,  Burnett, Raji, Perry and Dix have been decent.   I think King and Martinez and Kenny Clark will be decent.  Then there's Carl Bradford, Rollins, Randall, Thornton, Fackrell, not to mention the guys listed above.  

Clark is already more than decent.  He's already a beast at what 22?   He does the grunt work in the pits and often dominates.

Henry posted:

His technique sucks.  I get adjusting to the NFL game but it's not like he's just being overpowered, he's just flat getting beat.  

I remember Mike Wahle looking like that early in his career and he came out of it fine. I just don't remember Wahle looking like this this far into his career.

Lots of guys look great at the college level and their play never translates to the Pro game. Lots of guys look really good in practice and have the book smarts yet they never take that to the game.

This is what I'm seeing with Hundley, at least with what they are trying to do with him. Hundley's success has been on the quick reads and with a planned moving pocket. He still is not seeing the entire field clearly, yet McCarthy continues to call / scheme these multiple looks. The stuff Rodgers excels with.

Lastly, I posted this in the It's Ravens Week thread. He did not throw 3 straight times to start the game, but they threw way more than they needed to or should have with the way the game flowed.

Hungry5 posted:

BAL DEF rank: 6th in total yards, 3rd in passing yards, 8th in pts, 28th in rushing yards.

So, I expect McCarthy to throw 3 straight plays on their first possession.

The highly successful football coach... should be coaching for his job the rest of the season.

Hundley probabaly does great in practice because he knows he isnt going to get hit. He can probably get set make his reads and throw the ball where he wants. The problem is when the bell rings for real he goes into wide eye willie mode and has no game awareness or pocket awareness. I dont believe you can teach that. you either have it or you dont at this age and he doesnt have it. F you Anthony Barr.

Spriggs needs to work on his strength if he is to improve. His size worked for him in college against most DE's, not so in the NFL. He's athletic and long and has decent foot work, just gets over-powered.

6'7" at 300 lbs is about 20 lbs light in my opinion for him.

Henry posted:

His technique sucks.  I get adjusting to the NFL game but it's not like he's just being overpowered, he's just flat getting beat.  

he's terrible with his feet.  no quick first step.  nothing but a turnstile as it stands.

MichiganPacker posted:

Hungry5 posted:

MichiganPacker posted:

2016: Spriggs (Round 2 - 48th overall). Worst draft pick in TT's history.

Really? Justin Harrell?

I put Spriggs "ahead" of Harrell because Harrell had a bunch of bad injuries (back, ACL) even after he got to Green Bay that probably prevented him from at least be a serviceable rotation guy in the DL.

Spriggs, even when healthy, has looked like absolute ****. It's amazing a guy with those types of physical measurables will have what seems like multiple plays where he doesn't even make contact with a guy he's trying to block who is right in front of him.

When we drafted him I remember multiple scouts frustrated with him in college to the point they saw him as a UFDA. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. The anti-Bakhtiari

Hungry5 posted:

Spriggs needs to work on his strength if he is to improve. His size worked for him in college against most DE's, not so in the NFL. He's athletic and long and has decent foot work, just gets over-powered.

Disagree. He's often not even in the ballpark to use his strength. His footwork is so poor that he often gets whipped off the snap before engaging.  He's not getting overpowered as much as he's just whiffing. Frustrating as his athleticism was supposed to be one of his strengths. Posted earlier in the year that it looked like a technique issue-looked like poor foot placement and poor balance, but you'd think that would have been addressed by now. 

Tdog posted:

Henry posted:

His technique sucks.  I get adjusting to the NFL game but it's not like he's just being overpowered, he's just flat getting beat.  

he's terrible with his feet.  no quick first step.  nothing but a turnstile as it stands.

A turnstile at least makes contact with the person going through it.

MichiganPacker posted:

Henry posted:

His technique sucks.  I get adjusting to the NFL game but it's not like he's just being overpowered, he's just flat getting beat.  

I remember Mike Wahle looking like that early in his career and he came out of it fine. I just don't remember Wahle looking like this this far into his career.

Mike Wahle sucked in his first 3 seasons, mostly played tackle during that span. Favre took beatings in some of the games Wahle started at LT. He didn't become a full-time starter until year 4 in 2001, when he was moved to guard permanently.