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Hungry5 posted:

I'm with you BK on the timeline. Seems like it is never going to come.

Of course, my wife thinks I need to work until I'm 70. I'm guessing she has other ideas of how much we need in retirement than I do. How much money does it take to complain about everyone else from the comfort of my Lazy-Boy?

Congrats on retirement Quietone!  enjoy it.

Hungry I am pretty much in the same boat with my wife.  I personally think that she thinks it is easier for me to work until I am dead than to have to take matters in to her own hands after she is sick of me around the house yelling at people going anywhere near my lawn.

DH13 posted:
Packiderm posted:

I got 9 1/2 years to go. Most of my friends are retired or will be by the end of this year. When I do retire I don't care how bored I get! 

Boredom is not always a bad thing.  It's the only way time slows down.  Soak it in when it happens.

I feared I would get bored and would get a part time job, didn't happen.  The day passes quickly.  Up at 5 or so, news and sports for a couple of hours, gym, chores, walk the dog, a game of scrabble, read and it's supper time.  Watch a couple of shows or a game and it's time to turn in.   That's in the winter, summer means days of camping, fishing and hiking.

I know of 3 people I worked with that died real soon after retirement, one after 3 months, he was 60.   My advice, go as soon as you can. The futures uncertain and the end is always near.

 

no no no.  You can't do that in this age of "No Child Gets Ahead".  ALL students must be "A" students ---- because their parents say so.  And if not, well then, the parents complain to the administrators and School Board.....after all, the teachers must not be teaching their l'il darling if they aren't getting an "A".    

 

 

Congrats! 

I recently decided to shut it down as well. My previous employer was imploding throughout 2017. The president, an incompetent moron, only had one management tool -cut costs- and did it brutally throughout the year at the expense of marketing, staffing and R&D. So, in November when sales were dead (YOU MEAN A WOEFULLY LAGGING PRODUCT WITH NO MARKETING AND NOT ENOUGH SALES AND SUPPORT STAFF WON'T SPUR SALES GROWTH???) he asked me and 4 other Sr. VPs to transfer to 1 of the different companys under our parent company's portfolio. It would have been reporting to a guy in the UK in a boring commodity business, so I decided to take a package and leave. President then got forced out by the parent company 6 weeks later. But, hey way to go out scorched earth style and strip the company of some great talent, dumbass! Wish I could say I felt bad for the new President, but...

Looked around for a while but it always blows in December. Met with my financial planners just before xmas and it was clear that I no longer need to work.  Big shoutout to YHOO and RMBS! Especially RAMBUS! Can deal with kids college, house, maintain the lifestyle I'm accustomed to, and live well into my 80's. (that said I will have a grabber before I'm 80 without a doubt) And that's not even taking into account a pretty healthy inheritance we'll get from my Father in Law. 

So, I finally decided here in Feb that I'm done working in corporate America. I mean, maybe I'll reconsider if an absolute perfect opportunity presents itself. But, the demand for 47 year old white guys in the tech community isn't exactly soaring these days as companies get cheaper, younger, and more diverse. Plus, the way I see it, I go somewhere else, and I'll be the old white guy that if/when things hit the fan will be easily expendable. So, F it. 

I've been occasionally helping out a couple startups with their VC materials and brand strategy, which is nice as I can pick and choose what I want to do. I'm hoping I can convince a bartender I know to let me start barbacking when his place opens in May, with the goal of being a bartender at some point. I'm also exploring a job at the school district.  It pays squat, but insurance is covered completely by the district, and it has state pension. 

But congrats! Enjoy the time away from the rat race. And, if you do get bored, start cooking your ass off, that is a great way to spend time, save money from going out, and explore new things than the typical everyday fare.  

Last edited by Timpranillo
SanDiegoPackFan posted:

Congrats Quite One.  I have 4 or 5 years left of teaching.  Lucky for me my wife is younger and a nurse.   But I had kids late in life and will have my first one in college next year.  So, I might have to work longer.  Good news is I still enjoy what I do.

Wow--I'm a teacher with about five years left and my wife is younger and a nurse....

Congrats Quietone enjoy your new phase in life.

I retired 5 years ago and time flies when you're not working. Seems like you get up on Monday and 20 minutes later it's Friday. Probably because you can take your time on projects instead of rushing to get them done on a weekend so doing things take longer but are much more enjoyable because "there's always tomorrow." Enjoy!

YATittle posted:
SanDiegoPackFan posted:

Congrats Quite One.  I have 4 or 5 years left of teaching.  Lucky for me my wife is younger and a nurse.   But I had kids late in life and will have my first one in college next year.  So, I might have to work longer.  Good news is I still enjoy what I do.

Wow--I'm a teacher with about five years left and my wife is younger and a nurse....

You two aren't married to the same person, are you? 

I'll have my 30 in when I'm 56.  I used to think I'd do this till I was at least 60.  Now I don't know anymore...

Last edited by EC Pack

Thanks everyone! I have no firm plans yet other than try to catch up on 12 years of neglect here at home. Right now I'm going through old pictures I inherited from my parents, trying to make sense of it all. Amazing how 100+ years ago, it was sacrilege to write on the back to indicate who these people were!! One interesting find was a photo of a gentleman in a fancy coffin in the parlor of a house. He turned out to be my great-great-grandfather. Also going through pictures of family gone or grown up. That's the hard part.

I also have to start pitching years of "we may get a cabin someday" stuff out of the spare bedroom. I have declared that the someday cabin will never happen. The other day I heard, "We could use this when we go camping." The last time we went camping was over 10 years ago, maybe longer.

There are outdoor projects that I plan for this summer, at least one project involving demolition. Stuff gets old and caves in. So I'll do it if "someone" else won't. (I said to myself, "Fine." Always watch out when a woman is thinking, "Fine.")

If the local food pantry doesn't need help, they will at least take the squash that I seem to be adept at growing every year.

Boris you young whippersnapper, why are you even in this conversation?

Keep strong, BK! There's light at the end of the tunnel. (Or else it's that darn train!) It seemed like forever for me too, then just like that, it was here!

Last edited by QuietOne
YATittle posted:
Brainwashed Boris posted:

"grading" is what teachers assistants are for

Not allowed in my district.

Mostly, only university profs have TAs. Us high school teachers are on our own. Not only that, but as an English teacher, grading consists of reading struggling writers' "essays." Oy.   But sometimes you run across a kid or two who writes so well that you know you'll be reading their work someplace special in the future. It keeps me going... 

Fandame posted:
YATittle posted:
Brainwashed Boris posted:

"grading" is what teachers assistants are for

Not allowed in my district.

Mostly, only university profs have TAs. Us high school teachers are on our own. Not only that, but as an English teacher, grading consists of reading struggling writers' "essays." Oy.   But sometimes you run across a kid or two who writes so well that you know you'll be reading their work someplace special in the future. It keeps me going... 

Yup! Spent the weekend so far reading journals from my sophomores. Some are so talented!

YATittle posted:
SanDiegoPackFan posted:

Congrats Quite One.  I have 4 or 5 years left of teaching.  Lucky for me my wife is younger and a nurse.   But I had kids late in life and will have my first one in college next year.  So, I might have to work longer.  Good news is I still enjoy what I do.

Wow--I'm a teacher with about five years left and my wife is younger and a nurse....

OK.   I'm a Math teacher.  Every kid's favorite subject.  

Wife:   6 years younger.   Sharp Grossmont Hospital.  Bakersfield North alum.   Star Athlete.     Six Degrees of Separation.   Your turn.  

Last edited by SanDiegoPackFan
SanDiegoPackFan posted:
YATittle posted:
SanDiegoPackFan posted:

Congrats Quite One.  I have 4 or 5 years left of teaching.  Lucky for me my wife is younger and a nurse.   But I had kids late in life and will have my first one in college next year.  So, I might have to work longer.  Good news is I still enjoy what I do.

Wow--I'm a teacher with about five years left and my wife is younger and a nurse....

OK.   I'm a Math teacher.  Every kid's favorite subject.  

Wife:   6 years younger.   Sharp Grossmont Hospital.  Bakersfield North alum.   Star Athlete.     Six Degrees of Separation.   Your turn.  

Wife seven years younger. Mercy Southwest Hospital. Bakersfield High Alum. 23andme told her she had “elite athletic genes." Both our kids played college sports on scholarship.

 

Last edited by YATittle
SanDiegoPackFan posted:
YATittle posted:
SanDiegoPackFan posted:

Congrats Quite One.  I have 4 or 5 years left of teaching.  Lucky for me my wife is younger and a nurse.   But I had kids late in life and will have my first one in college next year.  So, I might have to work longer.  Good news is I still enjoy what I do.

Wow--I'm a teacher with about five years left and my wife is younger and a nurse....

OK.   I'm a Math teacher.  Every kid's favorite subject.  

Wife:   6 years younger.   Sharp Grossmont Hospital.  Bakersfield North alum.   Star Athlete.     Six Degrees of Separation.   Your turn.  

YA- I spent a career in the military where guys often have kids or a second family later in life!  You reply made me think about a friend of mine  81 y\o whose post  military baby just graduated from college.  Like you he enjoyed his second career and will probably die on the job!!

YATittle posted:
SanDiegoPackFan posted:
YATittle posted:
SanDiegoPackFan posted:

Congrats Quite One.  I have 4 or 5 years left of teaching.  Lucky for me my wife is younger and a nurse.   But I had kids late in life and will have my first one in college next year.  So, I might have to work longer.  Good news is I still enjoy what I do.

Wow--I'm a teacher with about five years left and my wife is younger and a nurse....

OK.   I'm a Math teacher.  Every kid's favorite subject.  

Wife:   6 years younger.   Sharp Grossmont Hospital.  Bakersfield North alum.   Star Athlete.     Six Degrees of Separation.   Your turn.  

Wife seven years younger. Mercy Southwest Hospital. Bakersfield High Alum. 23andme told her she had “elite athletic genes." Both our kids played college sports on scholarship.

 

whew.  almost thought we were married to the same gal...ha.    That is great news on the kids getting scholarships.   My oldest graduates this year and signed her letter of intent last month.

Sounds like we have a lot of teachers on here.  My wife is teacher and she has 7 more years to go until retirement.  She will retire before 58 years old and it will be interesting to see if she gets bored or not.  She always is busy with work and I think she likes the challenge and I can see her going back to long term teachers sub.  I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.

Me? pffft when the day comes I can actually retire no boredom problems for me.  As long as I can still play golf and take the grandkids fishing I will have plenty of things to do.

YATittle posted:

Wow--retiring at 58 from teaching? By us that pension doesn't pay max till 63, and I started late so it won't be that great. We don't get retiree health care either.

yep she was lucky and landed a job right out of college and will have the max you can go here at 35 years.  Well you can go further but it wont benefit her retirement if she goes longer.  One of the reasons I will have to work so long after her is the medical benefits they may not have them in retirement.   Like I said she probably is happy about that because I wont be around to irritate her 24X7 that way.

Out here in Cali - where we were just deemed the worst state in the Union - we don't max out until 63 (as YA mentioned). 

The highest multiplier you can get is 2.4.  So, it takes over 42 years until you can get at least 100% of your last year's salary in retirement benefits.  Fortunately, in our district, they will cover Health Care until 65 when Medi-caid takes over.

The bad news is the cost of living out here is ridiculous and taxes are very high, too.  Great weather, though!

Younger wife as well; she’s an engineer. She’s the breadwinner; I am the filler money. She does stuff with automotive while I teach the next generation at 3X less. I will retire and schlep the kids around for a couple years. Hopefully they get scholarships as son is a pretty good athlete amd daughter an artist and both have good grades. Wife is jealous that I’m retiring before her, but I plan not to hold it against her. :-)

SanDiegoPackFan posted:

Out here in Cali - where we were just deemed the worst state in the Union - we don't max out until 63 (as YA mentioned). 

The highest multiplier you can get is 2.4.  So, it takes over 42 years until you can get at least 100% of your last year's salary in retirement benefits.  Fortunately, in our district, they will cover Health Care until 65 when Medi-caid takes over.

The bad news is the cost of living out here is ridiculous and taxes are very high, too.  Great weather, though!

Yeah, in LA the teachers get health care in retirement and many consider that an irresponsible waste of money--not a dime going to current students. My district is run by republicans so I knew going in I'd be taking care of that. Cops and Firefighters, as they should, get lifetime medical.

Doing it over, I would've started teaching younger. Better deal for the retirement. But I did buy five years air time a long time ago which is a horrible deal for the taxpayers that Gov. Brown is wisely trying to get rid of that, but a union sued him over that.

SanDiegoPackFan posted:

Out here in Cali - where we were just deemed the worst state in the Union - we don't max out until 63 (as YA mentioned). 

The highest multiplier you can get is 2.4.  So, it takes over 42 years until you can get at least 100% of your last year's salary in retirement benefits.  Fortunately, in our district, they will cover Health Care until 65 when Medi-caid takes over.

The bad news is the cost of living out here is ridiculous and taxes are very high, too.  Great weather, though!

In NY State you can get maximum (60% of average of last 3 years salary) with 30 years / age 55. I lost 7 years in NC , so have to go until I'm 62. We can cash in unused sick days (up to 180 days) for health care payment in retirement. I think I'll have my first 7 years after retirement paid for. 

FLPACKER posted:
SanDiegoPackFan posted:

Out here in Cali - where we were just deemed the worst state in the Union - we don't max out until 63 (as YA mentioned). 

The highest multiplier you can get is 2.4.  So, it takes over 42 years until you can get at least 100% of your last year's salary in retirement benefits.  Fortunately, in our district, they will cover Health Care until 65 when Medi-caid takes over.

The bad news is the cost of living out here is ridiculous and taxes are very high, too.  Great weather, though!

In NY State you can get maximum (60% of average of last 3 years salary) with 30 years / age 55. I lost 7 years in NC , so have to go until I'm 62. We can cash in unused sick days (up to 180 days) for health care payment in retirement. I think I'll have my first 7 years after retirement paid for. 

In CA we get 10 sick days a year and you can only get time worked credit toward pension with them. At my site so many dedicated vets who never call in sick will get an extra years service credit. I only have 540 hours so considerably less for me.

Alright, I'll 'fess up.  I started my working career as a teacher.  But school politics ended that after a couple of years.  So I took what I knew and applied for a position at McDonnell Douglas in product support.  4 years later I was in engineering.  And at some point there after was given lead responsibilities over very short term projects.  That translated to being made a full time design lead.  I answer to a project manager, who in turn answers to a director of ...... something.  All I do is make sure the product works.  Along the way I have had to teach plenty of new engineers how to practically apply what they bring from school.  If a new engineer has been an intern with the company, the learning curve is a lot shorter.  So teaching has always been apart of what I do.  My wife is a consulting dietitian.  As such she has no benefits - like health care.  I do - and that is where I said us retiring together is just easier if we do it together when she is eligible - and she is only 6 months behind me.  I can deal with that. 

On the "what to retire to" front - which I have been considering and was a good comment in this thread.  In addition to helping our church more, I can help with the model airplane club I belong to - up keep of the flying site as well as continue to build and fly.  And a bunch of grandkids to visit is always there.  My wife likes to travel to see things - so I'll tag along with her.  But I have given some thought to working part time at Boeing - being the worker and letting the younger guys lead - two of them are ready now.  And applying for a position helping the Packers make sense of the NFL data dump they get has occurred to me.  I need to find out if my wife is up for a severe location change before I do that.   To me that would be fun - not work.  Being able to retire, being ready to retire, and retiring are slices of the same pie - so to speak.  They all need to be addressed.  I could retire now, but my spreadsheet says to stay put for 2 more years.  So I will obey the spreadsheet.   

The Heckler posted:

Sounds like we have a lot of teachers on here.  My wife is teacher and she has 7 more years to go until retirement.  She will retire before 58 years old and it will be interesting to see if she gets bored or not.  She always is busy with work and I think she likes the challenge and I can see her going back to long term teachers sub.  I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.

Me? pffft when the day comes I can actually retire no boredom problems for me.  As long as I can still play golf and take the grandkids fishing I will have plenty of things to do.

I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.  I sincerely want to know when it became fashionable to kick the teachers around??  When did that happen??  I've always held teachers in very high regard, still do, and it's like now they've become the scourge of any profession.  

Last edited by Goldie
Goldie posted:
The Heckler posted:

Sounds like we have a lot of teachers on here.  My wife is teacher and she has 7 more years to go until retirement.  She will retire before 58 years old and it will be interesting to see if she gets bored or not.  She always is busy with work and I think she likes the challenge and I can see her going back to long term teachers sub.  I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.

Me? pffft when the day comes I can actually retire no boredom problems for me.  As long as I can still play golf and take the grandkids fishing I will have plenty of things to do.

I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.  I sincerely want to know when it became fashionable to kick the teachers around??  When did that happen??  I've always held teachers in very high regard, still do, and it's like now they've become the scourge of any profession.  

Goldie...I just want to tell you that I have always felt respected as a teacher.  I know that the fact that we are public employees and paid through taxes is tough for some people to take.  But, I have never let that bother me.  I have been able to spend 34 years doing something that I love and working with some really great kids.  I wouldn't trade my experiences as a teacher or a coach for anything....including higher paying jobs with less scrutiny.  



But thank you so much for the  kind words about my profession.

Last edited by justanotherpackerfan

There are times I feel disrespected as a teacher, like when a parent once said, “School is a joke. Just get through it.” This from a city official! I think the idea that teachers are the dregs happened about the same time someone thought up “those who cannot do, teach.” That and everyone seems to know what their kid - and other kids - needs more than the teachers do. I’d like to see that same person take their kid to the doctor and say, “He doesn’t need an appendectomy, it’s just a pulled muscle” or tell an electrician how to do their job. Also, Parents don’t often realize how different their kid acts in school vs out, or exactly how their kid stacks up against others. To say nothing of politicians who think they know how to fix schools and teachers without ever setting foot in front of a class. But, there’s nothing like seeing a kid “get it” and watching them grow as people.

Off the box, back to football!

Cool topic... didn't realize there were so many teachers in here.  I feel for you guys...

I'm in law enforcement and "can" retire in two years at 50.  I will probably, and I stress probably, retire in 6 years at 54.  While drawing a pension, I'll then go into a second career as a Security Director/Manager until I'm in my early to mid 60's.  I don't really have to worry about health care because I'm service-connected through the VA.  Outside of the LE pension, we have been investing pretty heavily (For us) into a 401k and Roth IRA for awhile now.  The goal is to be able to retire comfortably and do some traveling so we don't get bored.  Arizona is the final destination and plenty of golf is in my future. 

Last edited by Pakrz
Goldie posted:
The Heckler posted:

Sounds like we have a lot of teachers on here.  My wife is teacher and she has 7 more years to go until retirement.  She will retire before 58 years old and it will be interesting to see if she gets bored or not.  She always is busy with work and I think she likes the challenge and I can see her going back to long term teachers sub.  I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.

Me? pffft when the day comes I can actually retire no boredom problems for me.  As long as I can still play golf and take the grandkids fishing I will have plenty of things to do.

I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.  I sincerely want to know when it became fashionable to kick the teachers around??  When did that happen??  I've always held teachers in very high regard, still do, and it's like now they've become the scourge of any profession.  

I've worked at three different districts, in 2 states, mainly at the 7-12 grade level. I think the general public is influenced through TV / Film portrayal of education. When my own kids were young & watched shows on Nickelodeon or TGIF on ABC, I started to notice how they always portrayed educators in a negative light. The Assistant Principal was always an idiot, PE teacher always a sadist, etc. My experience has always been that in general kids & parents respect educators....or course if they ARE idiots, they will not. 

Hungry5 posted:

I'm with you BK on the timeline. Seems like it is never going to come.

Of course, my wife thinks I need to work until I'm 70. I'm guessing she has other ideas of how much we need in retirement than I do. How much money does it take to complain about everyone else from the comfort of my Lazy-Boy?

H5, I feel the same way as you. My wife and yours must be related, though. I've been getting my Fed pension for 12 years now, had 2 jobs since, stopped working for 4 years to be a in-home caregiver for her Mom, and now have been working on the honey do list on our property for a couple of months (since I couldn't keep everything maintained while caregiving). But I'm supposed to drop everything and start looking for a new job in my 60's. 

And she -- not born in the U.S. -- is the one who taught me the saying "Every place in the world except America people work to live. In the USA people live to work". Then it wasn't meant as a compliment as I first heard it back when I was pulling 80-100 hour weeks when with the Feds and she was stuck with the kids at home.

Sweetheart, make up your mind!  

Congratulations, Quiet One! You've earned it, now do whatever the hell you want.

Last edited by ilcuqui

So.

As mentioned, retirement landing spot is St.George Utah. Went last month to do a little home-build planning and hiking....lots of hiking.

The lot we own is adjacent to Snow Canyon State Park, a gem of a place. Four hours into what we thought was a 3 hour hike, we come upon this vista....

Our lot is in the center with some red boulders in the corner of the lot. We were thrilled, yet terrified as it took another 2 hours to get off that damn mountain.

I am counting the days until my dead-ass is found in a mountain pass in Utah.

141 Lot Snow CanyonLot

 

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YATittle posted:

BK, here's info on crime rate at your future location.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2087378

 

Major crimes such as cow-tipping and stealing glances at comely lasses are on the increase.

Next you're going to tell me the US Government did Atomic testing near there  in the 50's and everybody is going to die from the fall-out (like John Wayne did after filming "The Conqueror" there....)

Oh....wait.

https://www.gasdetection.com/i...-radiation-paranoia/

Last edited by Blair Kiel
Goldie posted:
The Heckler posted:

Sounds like we have a lot of teachers on here.  My wife is teacher and she has 7 more years to go until retirement.  She will retire before 58 years old and it will be interesting to see if she gets bored or not.  She always is busy with work and I think she likes the challenge and I can see her going back to long term teachers sub.  I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.

Me? pffft when the day comes I can actually retire no boredom problems for me.  As long as I can still play golf and take the grandkids fishing I will have plenty of things to do.

I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.  I sincerely want to know when it became fashionable to kick the teachers around??  When did that happen??  I've always held teachers in very high regard, still do, and it's like now they've become the scourge of any profession.  

A lot of teacher bashing came when uninterested parents decided to have the teachers raise their children for them. Those same parents derided teachers "because they have summers off" or "because anyone can teach" or "teachers are overpaid."  In Wisconsin, the GOP controlled government here is eliminating teacher certificates because "anyone can teach." What none of these parents or government officials realize is how much time and money teachers spend getting recertified, obtaining the school supplies they need to teach with, plus all the other school mandated, after hours activities, let alone finding the time to make a daily lesson plan. Many teachers have to be coaches,  counselors or advisors for student clubs. How many parents of problem children are at those after school meetings?  

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Last edited by mrtundra

Exactly. I have had parents say, "He's yours now." We're supposed to be a team helping their teen. Not what they think they pay taxes for. Sad. Remember a professor in my teacher prep program who had recently been a working teacher tell me the problem these days is parents don't want to be parents, how much work he went to to convince parents to take away their child's video game console when they weren't doing the work. And anyone can teach, but can anyone teach EFFECTIVELY? That takes training, practice, experience.

Loving this thread. My late Dad was a career HS teacher up North who made a very big difference in the lives of his students. Whenever I get back home I invariably run into many from the multiple generations of students he taught, coached and mentored and I hear nothing but love and respect for my old man.

That's why he stayed in the classroom. Teachers can have such a positive impact on the family and the community. Such an underpaid and underappreciated profession.

mrtundra posted:
Goldie posted:
The Heckler posted:

Sounds like we have a lot of teachers on here.  My wife is teacher and she has 7 more years to go until retirement.  She will retire before 58 years old and it will be interesting to see if she gets bored or not.  She always is busy with work and I think she likes the challenge and I can see her going back to long term teachers sub.  I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.

Me? pffft when the day comes I can actually retire no boredom problems for me.  As long as I can still play golf and take the grandkids fishing I will have plenty of things to do.

I give all of you such props for doing that job and being able to handle it until you retire.  Truly a thankless profession.  I sincerely want to know when it became fashionable to kick the teachers around??  When did that happen??  I've always held teachers in very high regard, still do, and it's like now they've become the scourge of any profession.  

A lot of teacher bashing came when uninterested parents decided to have the teachers raise their children for them. Those same parents derided teachers "because they have summers off" or "because anyone can teach" or "teachers are overpaid."  In Wisconsin, the GOP controlled government here is eliminating teacher certificates because "anyone can teach." What none of these parents or government officials realize is how much time and money teachers spend getting recertified, obtaining the school supplies they need to teach with, plus all the other school mandated, after hours activities, let alone finding the time to make a daily lesson plan. Many teachers have to be coaches,  counselors or advisors for student clubs. How many parents of problem children are at those after school meetings?  

^^^^ that right there is spot on.  I think a lot of the bashing comes from seeing the few bad ones that gripe a lot and are ready to take it to the union an strike if they have to. But in reality there are very few teachers like that as I get to know them more.

My wife who is a teacher is my second wife and before her I knew her I knew nothing about the teaching profession.  I was one that would say things like "ugh another taxy levy for the schools?  so they can only work 9 months a year and want more money?"

As you said people need to understand what that profession really is all about.  She routinely works 12 hours a day with meetings for kids who need special help, mandatory events, grading papers until 11pm and oh mix in lesson plans as well.  Then on top of it they have to spend big bucks to get recertified/licensed, have to be part of curriculum meetings on and on.  

But even with all that she will in a second do anything to help any kid for anything that they need.  If can be something as simple as buying a kid's lunch because their family is too poor to always get lunch.  

 

This ^^^ My wife also thought teaching was an easy gig until she saw me grading into the wee hours, trying to squeeze in lesson plans, missing our own kids' events to be at mandated school events, going to work evenings for events, etc., etc., and now wondering if I'm safe in the classroom -- and doing it at one-third what she gets paid. And yes, constantly being there for kids before school, after school, and answering emails on weekends. If it wasn't such a chance to make a difference, I doubt anyone would go into teaching. Almost all of my high school students tell me there's no way they would become a teacher today. Sad that those who prepare the next generation are so belittled by so many.

I am in Minnesota where we are just starting to feel a shortage of teachers. Most of my students tell me they would not put up with the crap teachers have to in the classroom, and the hours we put in. There's a lot of states in teacher deficits right now, and until some changes are really made to make the profession more attractive, I think it will continue. Someone was telling me teachers in Germany(?) taught only three hours a day and spend the rest of the day planning, grading, and collaborating with fellow teachers. Sounds like a dream, if you ask me! :-)

Timmy! posted:

There are too many parallels between choosing to become a teacher and choosing to enter military service. Long hours. Low pay. Huge sacrifices to self and family. And, sadly, these days, the risk of being exposed to gunfire.

It's a calling.

It definitely is. I'm grading every weekend till June. Sometimes over the holiday breaks, too, that are supposed to be such a great benefit. I tell students considering becoming English teachers be ready, it won't ever change IF you're committed to helping your students be better communicators.

Last edited by YATittle

I never got my masters (I coached three seasons a year for 32 years and didn’t want to spend even more time away from family working on the degree) so I never got close to making out the pay scale...so after 30+ years I still don’t bring home a huge salary.  Not that I care...the time coaching and teaching have been worth it...plus Wisconsin Retirement System is pretty good.

Funny, I would never have compared teaching to the military...but I can kind of see it now.  

I always compare teaching and law enforcement, only because every asshole out there has seen it second hand and thinks they can do it just as well, bad eggs get overgeneralized to all the hardworking folks busting ass out there, and neither of them get appreciated enough for how much they make their communities better.  

Last edited by El-Ka-Bong

My folks are retired teachers Dad at the college level and mom at the high school level. They worked 12 hour days routinely, during the school year. During the break dad authored books, performed research studies and represented the university in other countries, and mom tutored kids, and taught special classes. I’d like to see most folks put in these kind of hours. Teachers do it all the time.

Way to go, QO!  I’ll pitch my own experience in here.  I couldn’t wait to retire!  And I thought I had PLENTY to do in retirement and would never be bored.  But I found it more challenging than I ever would have guessed.

I highly recommend you read a book called _What Will I Do All Day_ that I found on Amazon.  I bought a number of self-help books for retirement, and most were a waste, but this little book was amazingly helpful.

A year before I retired I was hospitalized with a pulmonary embolism that could have killed me.  Since retiring (year and a half now), I’ve had a 2nd PE and a heart attack (September).  There is so much I wanted to do in retirement!   But I have to take it easy as I’m still recovering from my heart attack.

If you’re healthy when you retire, do the traveling, active “bucket list” things asap so you don’t have health severely limit what you can do!  In my case, I have a wife who has had chronic health problems for over 20 years, so we’ve had challenges for a long time.  The thing I never anticipated is that I’d have health problems so early, as well.

But we have also been blessed with 4 grandkids in the last few years, with a 5th on the way.  And that is exciting and gives me a lot of motivation to be around for many more years to get to watch them grow.

Oh, and in the last year and a half I’ve taken some of the greatest fly fishing trips of my life!  And that was a big goal of mine.  All too often when buddies did great trips in the past I couldn’t because of limited time off or limited funds.  I’m making those things happen now, and they are keeping my charged up and excited.

 

Good luck, QO!

Fandame posted:

And that’s another reason the younger generation doesn’t want to become teachers: too much work for too little pay. Of course, they don’t see the intangibles, but the tangibles are out in the open. 

I actually heard this said during a dinner conversation "yeah teachers dont make much but they only work 9 months a year, have great pensions, and never have to pay for healthcare or a dollar for a prescription". Amazing the stuff that comes out of the human pie hole. 

Packdog posted:
Fandame posted:

And that’s another reason the younger generation doesn’t want to become teachers: too much work for too little pay. Of course, they don’t see the intangibles, but the tangibles are out in the open. 

I actually heard this said during a dinner conversation "yeah teachers dont make much but they only work 9 months a year, have great pensions, and never have to pay for healthcare or a dollar for a prescription". Amazing the stuff that comes out of the human pie hole. 

My Rx copay is $50-$60. And they take 10.25% out of every check to in part fund that pension. I don’t agree with a lot of what Scott Walker believes but I do agree with him that public employees should contribute half the cost of their pension.

Last edited by YATittle
YATittle posted:
Packdog posted:
Fandame posted:

And that’s another reason the younger generation doesn’t want to become teachers: too much work for too little pay. Of course, they don’t see the intangibles, but the tangibles are out in the open. 

I actually heard this said during a dinner conversation "yeah teachers dont make much but they only work 9 months a year, have great pensions, and never have to pay for healthcare or a dollar for a prescription". Amazing the stuff that comes out of the human pie hole. 

My Rx copay is $50-$60. And they take 10.25% out of every check to in part fund that pension. I don’t agree with a lot of what Scott Walker believes but I do agree with him that public employees should contribute half the cost of their pension.

Unfortunately (down here in San Diego anyway) - the government is going broke trying to pay for the pensions of the public employees.  Hence, this lovely city is starting to turn into the ugly mess of San Francisco and L.A.  because there is no money to keep to fix the aging infrastructure and keep it as "America's Finest city".

EDIT:  just to clarify:  the city's Public Employee Union does not include teachers. They are PERS.   We contribute to STRS instead.  And YA is correct, teachers have increased their contributions quite a bit over the past few years.

Last edited by SanDiegoPackFan

The bigger problem is "defined benefit" pensions (roughly the 2%/30 years model) as opposed to the "defined contribution" model (think 401k plans and the like).  The private sector switched to the latter much earlier because of the liabilities.  Government didn't in part because the government-sector unions had a vested interest in fighting in, and in part because the legislators aren't the ones who have to pay for it.  Either they can tax people (to a point) or, in the case of the feds, inflate the people into penury.

My take has always been that people pretty much know what they are getting into before they choose a profession. We had a math teacher once that during contract negotiations time was running his mouth about how much engineers made. I told him "did they tell you when you decided to be an education major that you'd make as much as an engineer"? Furthermore (what I didn't tell him), I don't think he would have cut it as an engineering major. On the other hand when I hear people complain about all the time off educators have I tell them "you can always go back to school and get your education degree if you think it is so great" . Point is, there are plus & minuses in every profession, everyone has a choice in what direction their life goes, be happy with what you have chosen & do the best job you can within that chosen profession. My father was a factory worker, my mom a housewife, I was the only one in my family to go to college, I feel very grateful for what I have. 

Thanks for posting that FLPacker.  My dad was a factory worker for 43 years and my mom a housewife (well, cook, maid, babysitter, etc.).   We had six kids.  2 of us went to college.   But I agree.  Be thankful for what you have and do.  It always could be worse.  If you enjoy going to work each day and enjoy the company of who you work with...it's really not "work".

El-Ka-Bong posted:

I always compare teaching and law enforcement, only because every asshole out there has seen it second hand and thinks they can do it just as well, bad eggs get overgeneralized to all the hardworking folks busting ass out there, and neither of them get appreciated enough for how much they make their communities better.  

I would add Nurses to this mix, as well. Too many idiots who think they can do those jobs have no clue, whatsoever, of what it takes to do those jobs. They put down the people who are educated, trained and able to do those jobs just to hear themselves complain while they do nothing to improve their own situations at home or in their lives. Instilling some respect for others, some sort of discipline and a code of conduct, or manners, their children will have to adhere to in the classrooms, on the streets and at home would go a long way to easing the negative crap teachers, law enforcement and nurses face on a daily basis. 

You mean the complete systematic attack & disassembly of the education system over the past 40 years?  Michigan's public education system is flourishing.  

On another note that isn't completely obvious, I read an article about flipping the concept of homework.  Essentially having students view the lectures out of class, then answering questions about the lecture and doing the work in class.  I could see this being a solid alternative approach, especially for those who learn in different manners. (fleeting thought)

What's intriguing about the above statements on education, nursing and law enforcement is this.  "Hi, I'm relatively healthy and educated.  I see other options than those that would involve a run in with law enforcement.  Options that would be of value to the society rather then being fodder for the private prison system".

Generalized?  Sure, but tell me I'm wrong. 

Last edited by Henry

1.) I am a math teacher who could have been an engineer or actuary...I am very happy with my choice and do not complain about my pay.  This is the profession that selected me and I am very happy with all aspects of it.

B.) The flipped classroom is a very interesting concept.  I had a colleague who attempted it a couple of years ago.  He found that way too many of his students didn't do the required viewing at home and thus he was teaching them the material the next day while other students had no one to help them with their classwork.  I think it can work, but the students have a heavy responsibility that they have to  carry out.

Personally, I love teaching in a block schedule (90 minute classes for covering a semester in a year).  The extra time allows for me to give the students guided practice in class every day.

III.)  Don't get me started on teaching to the test.  Wisconsin requires every student to take the ACT.  Great concept, but it really puts students who are not interested in an advanced college degree (and their teachers) under a microscope.  Teaching to the test when the students have no interest or desire to take the test can be a recipe for failure on many levels.

justanotherpackerfan posted:

1.) I am a math teacher 

B.) The flipped classroom is a very interesting concept.  I had a colleague who attempted it a couple of years ago.  He found that way too many of his students didn't do the required viewing at home and thus he was teaching them the material the next day while other students had no one to help them with their classwork.  I think it can work, but the students have a heavy responsibility that they have to  carry out.

III.)  Don't get me started on teaching to the test.  Wisconsin requires every student to take the ACT.  Great concept, but it really puts students who are not interested in an advanced college degree (and their teachers) under a microscope.  

1. I am an English teacher. FWIW, IMHO, LOL.

2. Flipped classroom. I cannot for the life of me see where this is a good idea for 75 percent of students. It sounds awesome, but "My parents made me go to dinner for our grandmother's birthday," "I had a soccer game an hour away one way," "Our internet/computer/printer at home isn't working," "I can't afford a computer," etc., etc. It's just not practical. 

3. Just was presented with our state testing schedule. Goodbye to a minimum of four days of instruction plus one at least of pre-test prep for April alone. And all our students take the ACT as well, plus other mandated tests. 

I knew what I was getting into when I signed up to teach, but I think people would be amazed at how little time actually goes into making teachers the best they can be (that's called "summer required hours"), and how much more goes into record keeping, quasi-parenting, meetings with parents and others, dealing with kids' mental health issues, etc., etc.

And don't get me started on DoDo DeVos!

Good posting.  So true.  Out here at my school....we are a "performing arts school"....besides the other extra-curriculular activities...

Students miss a lot of class time because they have a function to go to DURING THE SCHOOL DAY.  or they miss class because of a different function....or we have different bell schedule with periods missed due to an assembly.  We have had so many assemblies and alternate schedules that I had started to keep track...over the last 2 years at least one-third of our 180 day school year we were on a different schedule and kids missed instruction.  We are told that these kids will make up any missed work...but...they don't.

Our State TEsting schedule covers 3 weeks of school.  We don't test on Mondays or Fridays.  It's a block schedule of 100 minutes for each of the testing sessions.  We try to squeeze in the other periods, but they are shorter class times.  Also, one year, I only saw my Period 4 class ONCE in those 3 weeks.  I know, it's the administrator who puts out the schedule, but it's also that we test our kids way too much.

So, yes...IF teachers are allowed to teach and students told that they must be in class....then everything is fine...

whew...I feel better now.  Thanks Fandame!

 

Do you guys/gals think students should have some responsibilities as a student?
I realize there will always be situations that mean students miss class time, but the ones who are just being lazy and playing video games instead of putting in the required study should have to 'pay' some kind of penalty that doesn't affect the rest of the classroom.

Teaching to the test has made a lot of educators and students into robots. And yes, students are responsible for their own learning. The biggest challenge is getting them to stick with something that requires sustained effort. The internet has made so much so easy that “if I can’t find it in three clicks, I give up” is the new mantra. The internet is a double-edged sword.

Fandame posted:

Teaching to the test has made a lot of educators and students into robots. And yes, students are responsible for their own learning. The biggest challenge is getting them to stick with something that requires sustained effort. The internet has made so much so easy that “if I can’t find it in three clicks, I give up” is the new mantra. The internet is a double-edged sword.

I had my fun times, I was in on the BB boards early before I even went to college in 1987 (modems and phone bills, much to mine and my friends parent's phone bills chagrin, were the punishment). 

There were no wars to be motivated to join the Military, it really was about either trying to get into College or get out of your parent's house and make a life of your own.   

I suffered internally when I had to ask for help for a car repair.  I had enough pride and enough shame to admit when I screwed up and needed help.  (Be it rent, car repairs, whatnot, I worked hard to never have to ask)

I used to believe advanced education teaches you how to learn in the real world.  Sure you learn things, but what gets taught often is a few years behind current reality.  But now I am not as sure.

It's still up to the student to learn how to learn.  I believed that then and I believe that now.   Every year raising my taxes so each student gets an iPad that they use for games or social media drives me nuts.  But it seems so many choose not how to learn if they can't google it or even WANT to move out from home and get out on their own.

WWII vets/families are often called the greatest generation.   There is NO WAY NO HOW that I could ever seen modern day America rally around a cause and do what needs to be done to handle the adversity that came upon that generation. 

It's because of exactly what you note @Fandame, if they can't find it in a couple of clicks they give up.  

I was part of the early interwebs, by the time it grew I didn't have the money to invest but I used it in manners that helped me on a daily basis.  It was never a crutch and I can't imagine where the world is heading because of the lack of conceptuality that has grown with the latest generation.  

Meh.  Get off my lawn.  

Whatever.

I try to instill a sense of pride in my students, too.  I tell them that college isn't for everyone.  There are so many good options for kids:  Tech School; Jr. College; ROP Classes; military; or just try to get a job somewhere to build confidence and then decide what you want to do.

As was mentioned earlier, I tell my students that this will always get them to success:   show up on time;  have good hygiene;  respect your boss (elders); respect others; treat others like you want to be treated....and...SMILE more...and then No matter who you are, there are people that will take a chance on you and help you succeed.

SanDiegoPackFan posted:

I try to instill a sense of pride in my students, too.  I tell them that college isn't for everyone.  There are so many good options for kids:  Tech School; Jr. College; ROP Classes; military; or just try to get a job somewhere to build confidence and then decide what you want to do.

As was mentioned earlier, I tell my students that this will always get them to success:   show up on time;  have good hygiene;  respect your boss (elders); respect others; treat others like you want to be treated....and...SMILE more...and then No matter who you are, there are people that will take a chance on you and help you succeed.

A 4 year college and worthless degree isn't the right choice for many.

Trade schools and actual skills can set someone up well for life.  My company BEGS for skilled welders for stainless steel at a food grade level.  So much that they set up competitions between local high schools with the reward being a full welding setup station for the shop class of the school and a scholarship for the kid that wins.

Being a you tuber or blogger or an IT admin isn't necessarily the only way to have a career.  I hope the kids get guided and find their place.  Going 200k into debt for a degree by the destroyed secondary academy is not always the way to go.

First of all...I want to note that Cavetoad’s avatar is perfect for this conversation.

Second..I couldn’t agree more with the idea that the internet has made everyone lazy.  I had a theory even before the whole google everything came into society that video games were teaching our kids that failure was acceptable...”that’s ok, I will just restart”.  And it’s not just the kids with the “just tell me the answer” attitude..there are some parents out the with the same thought.

i watch kids use or try to use apps like Slader or wolfram alpha to get all the answers for assignments and the wonder why they fail the tests.



Finally, as I always do after I find myself complaining, I need to point out there are a ton of intelligent, mature, motivated kids out there who will do just fine and be great leaders.  I never want to forget about them...they deserve the best I have to offer (actually all the kids do).

Last edited by justanotherpackerfan

"I had my fun times, I was in on the BB boards early before I even went to college in 1987 (modems and phone bills, much to mine and my friends parent's phone bills chagrin, were the punishment)."

I graduated from High School in 1972. the only Bulletin Boards were the ones made of cork in the classrooms that one would tack notices on. There were no personal computers. A friend of mine had a computerlike device made of plastic that was nothing more than an Americanized version of an abacus. When I got to college I took a statistics class where we had to use punch cards to run our program through a main frame computer. The key punching stations filled a room as did the main frame computer. There were Vocational Tech/trade schools but all they taught were carpentry, HVAC, welding and maybe a course or two on being a dental hygienist. There was no internet. We had things like encyclopedias that stored information in groupings like Aardvark- Astronomy or Girl to Grab. Everyone would scramble to the library to get the latest edition of Time magazine for a current events assignment. Today, Vocational Technical schools offer a real option for those not wanting a college degree, for whatever reason. We need people who know how to fix things, to install things properly, to build things that will last. We need careers that offer people a future, taught by inspired teachers who aren't restrained or constrained by political rules and insane policies. Open those minds and let the light of discovery in.

SanDiegoPackFan posted:

I try to instill a sense of pride in my students, too.  I tell them that college isn't for everyone.  There are so many good options for kids:  Tech School; Jr. College; ROP Classes; military; or just try to get a job somewhere to build confidence and then decide what you want to do.

As was mentioned earlier, I tell my students that this will always get them to success:   show up on time;  have good hygiene;  respect your boss (elders); respect others; treat others like you want to be treated....and...SMILE more...and then No matter who you are, there are people that will take a chance on you and help you succeed.

Exactly. And plumber, welders, etc., by us earn more than the teachers--learn a trade, a skill somone will pay for.

Cavetoad posted:
SanDiegoPackFan posted:

I try to instill a sense of pride in my students, too.  I tell them that college isn't for everyone.  There are so many good options for kids:  Tech School; Jr. College; ROP Classes; military; or just try to get a job somewhere to build confidence and then decide what you want to do.

As was mentioned earlier, I tell my students that this will always get them to success:   show up on time;  have good hygiene;  respect your boss (elders); respect others; treat others like you want to be treated....and...SMILE more...and then No matter who you are, there are people that will take a chance on you and help you succeed.

A 4 year college and worthless degree isn't the right choice for many.

Trade schools and actual skills can set someone up well for life.  My company BEGS for skilled welders for stainless steel at a food grade level.  So much that they set up competitions between local high schools with the reward being a full welding setup station for the shop class of the school and a scholarship for the kid that wins.

Being a you tuber or blogger or an IT admin isn't necessarily the only way to have a career.  I hope the kids get guided and find their place.  Going 200k into debt for a degree by the destroyed secondary academy is not always the way to go.

I strongly support this and not only for the jobs themselves.  It's another false mentality seeping into the culture that blue collar is somehow less than, which is ****ing stupid. 

This is a really interesting article about Japan and their shift from quantity to quality, borrowing and improving American standards from decades past.  

How Japan Copied American Culture and Made It Better.

After decades of recessions and a lagging economy the Japanese have figured it out.  

We lose the idea of quality by looking down on craftsmen, merchants and builders.  We consume a steady diet of social media and disposable **** from China.  It would be nice to see a revival of craftsmanship and with it an eye for quality in our economy.  We need every form of education to be on the same pedestal.   

I have always wanted to learn old school blacksmithing.  Turns out my great grandfather was the blacksmith for River Falls. 

Last edited by Henry

River Falls Journal July 16, 1887

A special meeting was held at the River Falls Courthouse last week to discuss the rash of injuries caused by horses throwing their shoes.  Pops Cernohous, owner of the River Falls General Store reported two instances where horse threw shoes in front of his store causing a window to be broken on one occasion and a jar of peppermint sticks to shatter on the second.  Also, the school marm, Sadie Cudd reported that one of her students was nearly injured when a thrown shoe wrapped around the students ankle.  She did go on to report that the students have begun to play a game where they throw shoes and try to wrap them around each other’s ankles and score points accordingly. 

The meeting did not find a solution to the problem.  Local blacksmith, Hank O’Henry could not be reached to comment on the situation as he was  currently across the river in Minnesota trying to educate some no account slackers.

mrtundra posted:

"I had my fun times, I was in on the BB boards early before I even went to college in 1987 (modems and phone bills, much to mine and my friends parent's phone bills chagrin, were the punishment)."

I graduated from High School in 1972. the only Bulletin Boards were the ones made of cork in the classrooms that one would tack notices on. There were no personal computers. A friend of mine had a computerlike device made of plastic that was nothing more than an Americanized version of an abacus. When I got to college I took a statistics class where we had to use punch cards to run our program through a main frame computer. The key punching stations filled a room as did the main frame computer. There were Vocational Tech/trade schools but all they taught were carpentry, HVAC, welding and maybe a course or two on being a dental hygienist. There was no internet. We had things like encyclopedias that stored information in groupings like Aardvark- Astronomy or Girl to Grab. Everyone would scramble to the library to get the latest edition of Time magazine for a current events assignment. Today, Vocational Technical schools offer a real option for those not wanting a college degree, for whatever reason. We need people who know how to fix things, to install things properly, to build things that will last. We need careers that offer people a future, taught by inspired teachers who aren't restrained or constrained by political rules and insane policies. Open those minds and let the light of discovery in.

I also think that we need to get more kids in to fields such as welders, plumbers, HVAC guys, electricians, carpenters etc.  I think that too often these days parents for some reason think their kid isn't a success and they don't go to college but instead go to a trade school.  As Henry said we have this habit of looking down at people in these fields and I think we are wrong to do so I say we encourage kids to go down that path.  A good example is my son in law.  He isn't ever going to be a Rhode's scholar and he just isn't the college type.  He isn't dumb at all he is more of the get his hands on things and make it work type of guy and he loves it. And I tell you what he is the best mechanic I have ever been around and is doing quite well for himself in his early 20's.

justanotherpackerfan posted:

River Falls Journal July 16, 1887

A special meeting was held at the River Falls Courthouse last week to discuss the rash of injuries caused by horses throwing their shoes.  Pops Cernohous, owner of the River Falls General Store reported two instances where horse threw shoes in front of his store causing a window to be broken on one occasion and a jar of peppermint sticks to shatter on the second.  Also, the school marm, Sadie Cudd reported that one of her students was nearly injured when a thrown shoe wrapped around the students ankle.  She did go on to report that the students have begun to play a game where they throw shoes and try to wrap them around each other’s ankles and score points accordingly. 

The meeting did not find a solution to the problem.  Local blacksmith, Hank O’Henry could not be reached to comment on the situation as he was  currently across the river in Minnesota trying to educate some no account slackers.

I never said he was any good. 

What I've heard from contractors (building construction) is that it's getting more and more difficult to find entry level (i.e. young) laborers to learn trades like roofing and exterior work, carpentry and even rough-in work because they simply don't want to "work like that".  They'll show up, work for a day or two and never come back when they realize how hard it is.  

2018 posted:

Kids are lazy



2008 posted:


Kids are lazy


1988 posted:


Kids nowadays are lazy


1958 posted:


Kids sure are lazy


1908 posted:


What the hell is this voodoo box of sin I am typing on?  Some lazy kid must have invented this devils handbook to post naked pictures.  


1408 posted:


I hope I live to be 30

We don't pound the need to go to a four-year college into the kids where I teach. We have a full shop, including teaching them welding, carpentry, and other practical skills. Many of the kids I work with go out and work in the trades and do quite well. There's many a place for a kid who likes hands-on work and and will be successful if they are willing to do what was mentioned earlier: show up on time, work hard, be polite, be willing to learn. Unfortunately, today part of a teacher's job is to teach good, old-fashioned "grit" and "stick-to-it-iveness" because kids just don't get that it's not always a click away.

Don't get me wrong: some kids are tremendous individuals with more smarts and insights than many adults I know. But a large number -- too large -- have to be pushed and prodded to get any sort of even average results. For many, maturity eventually kicks in and they learn it the hard way. Those who don't learn end up being 25 playing video games on their parents' couch. 

I don't think it's an issue with teachers at all.  If anything it's the Wall Street culture horse**** that started in the 80's.  The tech field exploded so of course 4 year degrees were sought after and essential. 

The problem is somewhere blue collar lost all respectability.  It's not a "those darn kids" or "lets blame everyone" scenario in my book.  It's a loss of a part of American culture because people were driven from it (small farmers) or the jobs being shipped overseas or breaking unions or ****heads on Wall Street calling themselves job creators while paging through Atlas Shrugged. 

Social media is still ****. 

   

 

Last edited by Henry

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