I'll say it again: Rodgers has to work the mid-range throws. Much of the time, he doesn't have the time to throw deep -- who really does in today's game where rushers are coming from all over? If you work the short game all the time, the D collapses and stuffs the box and everything halts. If Rodgers throws the intermediate passes from the numbers in, he has the time to go 15-20 yards downfield, he loosens up the linebackers who have to drop deeper, and he shortens up the DBs who now have to come back to help make stops, etc. All of that helps set up the short passing and long passing game. 

DH13 posted:
Boris posted:
El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:
phaedrus posted:
El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:

but what about the other receivers?  

I am happy with Aaron Jones.  (I guess I think running backs can be receivers.)

We suck at making tackles eligible - including Bak and Bulaga

Maybe that's why they signed Veldeheer

DH13 posted:

They need to draft a RD1 or RD2 WR in April no matter what Lazard or anyone else does from here on out.  It's been too long.

McLauren was drafted in round 3. Antonio Brown was drafted in round 4 so was Kittle (TE)

Doesn't have to be RD 1 or 2.

Seriously?  Gute "took the odds" two years ago and looks like he came up snake eyes.  You can find talent anywhere but you hedge your bets toward the early rounds.  Do we need to list the best WR's in GB since AR has been here and what RD they were taken?

I opened a topic on this awhile back.  Basically on what I thought were possibilities given Gute drafted WR at 4,5, and 6.

I am inclined to conclude that drafting that position 3 times in the same draft at those rounds is simply a whopper of a mistake.  Those rounds return more at other positions.

He blew it bigtime.

Chongo posted:
El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:

Do we need better lineman- at guard, center and tackle?  

C for sure...Linsley has looked awful at times this year. Vs SF he looked like Jason Spriggs. Need a version of Elgton Jenkins at C. Maybe Lucas Patrick is that guy.

Based on what I have seen from Linsley this year, he must be replaced.  He's been horrible at times.  

GBFanForLife posted:

In your opinion.

It's based on the likelihood that the returns on WR's picked at those later rounds is known to be quite low.

I confess that I now tend to think the above is true.  In which place Gute drafted out of position.

I have seen so many posts of folks saying we need to draft a receiver at 1 or 2.  That could be seen as an indictment.  Not only that sufficient quality was not attained ( which is why we need to target WR), but we think we need to go after it at such high rounds.

Hey, I think Gutey is really good.  Just not with that portion of that draft.

MVS isn't as good in the run game as Lazard is. I also believe he isn't right physically. (Think Davante in year 2).

MVS needs to block better. His route running needs to improve as well. He can run a fly pattern but that's about it. 

Per Next Gen Stats and PFF:

The Green Bay #Packers have the number 1 separation rate among WR's in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers ranks 31st in efficiency to throwing into tight windows.

Mike Greenberg on ESPN all over that stat among others stating AR has been looking way too average this season, pointing out that no, it is not that WR's aren't getting open. 

Focusing too much on Adams? Not seeing guys wide open. Taking too many sacks. FWIW, Ben Fennell has been pointing out the same thing.    





 

packerboi posted:

Per Next Gen Stats and PFF:

The Green Bay #Packers have the number 1 separation rate among WR's in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers ranks 31st in efficiency to throwing into tight windows.

Mike Greenberg on ESPN all over that stat among others stating AR has been looking way too average this season, pointing out that no, it is not that WR's aren't getting open. 

Focusing too much on Adams? Not seeing guys wide open. Taking too many sacks. FWIW, Ben Fennell has been pointing out the same thing.    





 

YIKES.....

Piece from Rob Reischel about the struggles of the offense.

Of the teams that currently hold playoff spots, only Buffalo (20.5) and Pittsburgh (19.9) average fewer points per game than Green Bay. And only the Steelers rank below the Packers in total offense (290.1).

Green Bay has been the model for mediocrity in all offensive phases, ranking 16th in passing offense (233.1) and 17th in rushing offense (107.0). And in the next two weeks, the Packers host Chicago — which ranks No. 4 in scoring defense (17.8) — and travels to seventh-ranked Minnesota (19.2).

13X posted:
packerboi posted:

Per Next Gen Stats and PFF:

The Green Bay #Packers have the number 1 separation rate among WR's in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers ranks 31st in efficiency to throwing into tight windows.

Mike Greenberg on ESPN all over that stat among others stating AR has been looking way too average this season, pointing out that no, it is not that WR's aren't getting open. 

Focusing too much on Adams? Not seeing guys wide open. Taking too many sacks. FWIW, Ben Fennell has been pointing out the same thing.    

YIKES.....

Well, I guess they better bench him for Boyle just like the Giants did to Eli.

michiganjoe posted:

Piece from Rob Reischel about the struggles of the offense.

Of the teams that currently hold playoff spots, only Buffalo (20.5) and Pittsburgh (19.9) average fewer points per game than Green Bay. And only the Steelers rank below the Packers in total offense (290.1).

Green Bay has been the model for mediocrity in all offensive phases, ranking 16th in passing offense (233.1) and 17th in rushing offense (107.0). And in the next two weeks, the Packers host Chicago — which ranks No. 4 in scoring defense (17.8) — and travels to seventh-ranked Minnesota (19.2).

Pretty underwhelming for a 10-3 team. This is why some have doubts they can make a deep playoff run.

packerboi posted:

Per Next Gen Stats and PFF:

The Green Bay #Packers have the number 1 separation rate among WR's in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers ranks 31st in efficiency to throwing into tight windows.

Mike Greenberg on ESPN all over that stat among others stating AR has been looking way too average this season, pointing out that no, it is not that WR's aren't getting open. 

Focusing too much on Adams? Not seeing guys wide open. Taking too many sacks. FWIW, Ben Fennell has been pointing out the same thing.    





 

I note you didn't note the responses of the 3 guys on his panel, 3 guys who played the game and one who was a personel guy too.  One who said he stayed up all night watching film and he saw very little separation.                  

Stats are stats.  Watch the game.  10 and 3 is all that matters.

That said.....he needs to be eliter.

 

 

 

Boris posted:

If they win 1 playoff game, is that considered a "deep run"? Or does it have to be Super Bowl or bust to be considered "deep run"?

If they get a bye and win one game they are in the NFC Championship game. But that's only one win so maybe that's not enough. 

Boris posted:

I think everyone needs to chill out & let the WR's they drafted, get healthy.

Yeah ESB & MVS suck!

I never said they suck and I sure hope you are right.  During Adam's second year, I did not give him any criticism as I thought his high ankle sprain had to be an issue with his performance.  But, I thought he showed enough his rookie year.

Well, three WR's drafted.  One is gone and of the remaining two, after two full seasons, whether or not either is at least a good #3 will not be known.

Tdog posted:

for me, the passing game was at it's best this season when Adams was out with injury.  make of that what you will.  I know what I gleaned from it.

Yup, I'm in this camp as well. AR was finally forced to play the offense the way MLF intended and it worked beautifully in the OAK game. When Adams came back AR has tried to go back to his "good old days" of going for the big hitter. This just set him back. I'm not buying Greenie's attempt to string together the last 3 years of stats to say that Rodgers is the problem. Too many other factors including some significant injuries.

Pikes Peak posted:
packerboi posted:

Per Next Gen Stats and PFF:

The Green Bay #Packers have the number 1 separation rate among WR's in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers ranks 31st in efficiency to throwing into tight windows.

Mike Greenberg on ESPN all over that stat among others stating AR has been looking way too average this season, pointing out that no, it is not that WR's aren't getting open. 

Focusing too much on Adams? Not seeing guys wide open. Taking too many sacks. FWIW, Ben Fennell has been pointing out the same thing.    


 

I note you didn't note the responses of the 3 guys on his panel, 3 guys who played the game and one who was a personel guy too.  One who said he stayed up all night watching film and he saw very little separation.                  

Stats are stats.  Watch the game.  10 and 3 is all that matters.

That said.....he needs to be eliter.

  

The eye opening stat for me was that GB WR's are number 1 in the NFL in getting separation (they were 14th in the NFL last year) and that AR is next to dead last in throwing efficiency into tight windows. I really don't care what Greenberg's (who is a big AR supporter) back and forth was between colleagues.  

The montra/beating drum, if you will, regarding WR's here is that they are slow and they can't get open or create separation. Apparently, that isn't the case. 

I fully believe in Rodger's ability to see this and start throwing to these players. Look no further then the 4 games Adams was out where he did precisely that. 

But someone...La Fluer, Hackett, his QB coach, has to point out and hammer the point home that these guys are getting open and he needs to make these throws. But Rodgers relying on Adams and force feeding the ball to an aging, highly overpiad and declining Jimmy Graham is doing this offense no favors.  

packerboi posted:
Pikes Peak posted:
packerboi posted:

Per Next Gen Stats and PFF:

The Green Bay #Packers have the number 1 separation rate among WR's in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers ranks 31st in efficiency to throwing into tight windows.

Mike Greenberg on ESPN all over that stat among others stating AR has been looking way too average this season, pointing out that no, it is not that WR's aren't getting open. 

Focusing too much on Adams? Not seeing guys wide open. Taking too many sacks. FWIW, Ben Fennell has been pointing out the same thing.    


 

I note you didn't note the responses of the 3 guys on his panel, 3 guys who played the game and one who was a personel guy too.  One who said he stayed up all night watching film and he saw very little separation.                  

Stats are stats.  Watch the game.  10 and 3 is all that matters.

That said.....he needs to be eliter.

  

The eye opening stat for me was that GB WR's are number 1 in the NFL in getting separation (they were 14th in the NFL last year) and that AR is next to dead last in throwing efficiency into tight windows. I really don't care what Greenberg's (who is a big AR supporter) back and forth was between colleagues.  

The montra/beating drum, if you will, regarding WR's here is that they are slow and they can't get open or create separation. Apparently, that isn't the case. 

I fully believe in Rodger's ability to see this and start throwing to these players. Look no further then the 4 games Adams was out where he did precisely that. 

But someone...La Fluer, Hackett, his QB coach, has to point out and hammer the point home that these guys are getting open and he needs to make these throws. But Rodgers relying on Adams and force feeding the ball to an aging, highly overpiad and declining Jimmy Graham is doing this offense no favors.  

He needs to move the chains instead of throwing the low percentage bomb into tight coverage on third and manageable. Drives me nuts to see guys open for the 1st down and yet he will consistently take the low percentage kill shot.

Tdog posted:

for me, the passing game was at it's best this season when Adams was out with injury.  make of that what you will.  I know what I gleaned from it.

No question... and for the slow kids, the problem has nothing to do with #17.  

13X posted:
Boris posted:

If they win 1 playoff game, is that considered a "deep run"? Or does it have to be Super Bowl or bust to be considered "deep run"?

Well I would certainly say that a trip to the NFC Championship game would be a deep run.

Me too.  As painful as those NFC Championship game losses have been over the years, the run to get to them is a bit more fun than if the team peters out in the Wild Card or Divisional round.  Those years under Mike Sherman where they kept dying out in the divisional round really made me appreciate it a lot more when under McCarthy they did start to go back to Championship games even though they lost more of those than they won. 

packerboi:

The eye opening stat for me was that GB WR's are number 1 in the NFL in getting separation (they were 14th in the NFL last year) and that AR is next to dead last in throwing efficiency into tight windows. I really don't care what Greenberg's (who is a big AR supporter) back and forth was between colleagues.  

The montra/beating drum, if you will, regarding WR's here is that they are slow and they can't get open or create separation. Apparently, that isn't the case. 

If this is true, Rodgers has basically sucked this year.

YATittle posted:

I for one am glad all the Rodgers for MVP talk which was flying around when Adams was injured has gone away. He's nowhere near Lamar or Wilson.

If the Pack WR's are #1 at separation, Rodgers ought to be having a field day all day everyday.

"The Green Bay #Packers have the number 1 separation rate among WR's in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers ranks 31st in efficiency to throwing into tight windows."

Ar is showing some of the effects of age and injury. But he spent 14 years in one system, the first 3 simply studying it. If you expect the same sort of mastery after less than one season in another system you're more emotional than rational.

grignon posted:

"The Green Bay #Packers have the number 1 separation rate among WR's in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers ranks 31st in efficiency to throwing into tight windows."

Ar is showing some of the effects of age and injury. But he spent 14 years in one system, the first 3 simply studying it. If you expect the same sort of mastery after less than one season in another system you're more emotional than rational.

Of course I wrote IF.

I find it impossible to believe.  Even if a new system, Rodgers is far too intelligent to not be able to enjoy the best separating WR unit in the NFL and (if need be) to resort to a quick passing attack.  Someone must be open and just release the ball in 2.8s or whatever the ideal time is (don't remember).

I think if the WR's were really that good, Rodgers would be tearing up the league.

Can't catch a ball if it isn't thrown your way. Rodgers has been doing this for years. He actually played better when Adams was out. He needs to take what the defense is giving him. They should probably go to a faster tempo and move down the field 5 or 6 yards at a time, the defense will eventually open up to a big play.

If anything, Rodgers' deep ball accuracy has been off, and yes, a bit too much looking for D. Adams.  But the separation statistics are completely meaningless.  Although I like Fennell and his stuff a lot, he has a big hang-up on Rodgers holding the ball and has for a while. There is one twitter account I like to check in on (the_green_gold) that I wish would post more. The person behind the account has a coaching or playing background and knows what they are talking about.  Anyway, they indicated Rodgers messed up on 5 passing plays.  That doesn't seem earth shattering to me.  What bothers me is the coaches being "surprised" that the Redskins played more coverage than they anticipated.  We may think Aaron Rodgers seems to be less of a weapon, but the rest of the NFL sure doesn't.

I don't know who "decided" or what "stats" have said Packers are #1 at separation. 

I do know if that was accurate, Rodgers would be right on Lamar Jackson's heels for MVP. 

Going to be interesting seeing them play vs. the Bears with Akiem Hicks back. 

Does he take with a defense gives him or not?

50k Club posted:

If anything, Rodgers' deep ball accuracy has been off, and yes, a bit too much looking for D. Adams.  But the separation statistics are completely meaningless.  Although I like Fennell and his stuff a lot, he has a big hang-up on Rodgers holding the ball and has for a while. There is one twitter account I like to check in on (the_green_gold) that I wish would post more. The person behind the account has a coaching or playing background and knows what they are talking about.  Anyway, they indicated Rodgers messed up on 5 passing plays.  That doesn't seem earth shattering to me.  What bothers me is the coaches being "surprised" that the Redskins played more coverage than they anticipated.  We may think Aaron Rodgers seems to be less of a weapon, but the rest of the NFL sure doesn't.

And Jones made them pay for that. Huge day for the other Aaron. Don't think Bears will make that mistake.

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