Rodgers not Elite?

Boris posted:

FLPACKER posted:

I would think that opposing defenses are paying a little bit more attention to Sanders than they are to Lazard? 

My intention is showing the same or near same production with Lazard as Sanders.....and the Packers don't have George Kittle....and the Packers didn't have to mortgage the future with 2020 draft picks. 

Plus Sanders doesn't block as well as Lazard in the run game. 

That's all I'm saying. Not that Packers WR's are better. 

So you could say that Lazard, with a UDFA rookie curve, is as productive as Sanders because he and Rodgers plays within his skillset?

Average.

I think Lazard and EQ could be really good interchangeable options at 3 and 4 position.

Henry posted:

michiganjoe posted:

Two of AR's better performances of the season occurred with Adams out injured. Receiver position definitely needs upgrading but not sure how significantly it plays into the offensive struggles. AR needs to play within the system and take what the defense is giving him rather than looking for the kill shot. 

Because they used Jones and Wiliams in unique ways.  Those two had more receiving yards than the "WR" corp.  Why Mayo went away from that I'm not entirely sure but my guess is it wouldn't take teams long to shut it down.  Jones lining up at WR should be a pretty good indicator as to how poor this WR corp is.

They stopped covering those guys with LBs and went to DBs and we didn't make them pay.

How do you make them pay exactly?  Could it be the WR corp isn't good enough to make them pay as soon as they take Williams and Jones out of the pass game and squat on the run game?

I wonder which team is #32 in cleat turf accumulation?

Henry posted:

I think Lazard and EQ could be really good interchangeable options at 3 and 4 position.

Agree. I'd like to see the Packers get that stud #2 WR or a big time TE (like Kelce or Ertz)

Henry posted:

I wonder which team is #32 in cleat turf accumulation?

I think it's the Bengals. 😁

Henry posted:

michiganjoe posted:

Two of AR's better performances of the season occurred with Adams out injured. Receiver position definitely needs upgrading but not sure how significantly it plays into the offensive struggles. AR needs to play within the system and take what the defense is giving him rather than looking for the kill shot. 

Because they used Jones and Wiliams in unique ways.  Those two had more receiving yards than the "WR" corp.  Why Mayo went away from that I'm not entirely sure but my guess is it wouldn't take teams long to shut it down.  Jones lining up at WR should be a pretty good indicator as to how poor this WR corp is.

I'm not sure if it's truly an endorsement on how bad the WR corp is or an attempt from LaFluffer to be creative by putting Jones in position to get more touches.  

I think it's both.  Jones proved he was pretty decent as a downfield receiver. 

Pistol GB posted:

michiganjoe posted:

Two of AR's better performances of the season occurred with Adams out injured. Receiver position definitely needs upgrading but not sure how significantly it plays into the offensive struggles. AR needs to play within the system and take what the defense is giving him rather than looking for the kill shot. 

Exactly.

Two of Rodgers best games came against the Raiders and Eagles, one was with Adams and one was against the Raiders. 

Pakrz posted:

Henry posted:

michiganjoe posted:

Two of AR's better performances of the season occurred with Adams out injured. Receiver position definitely needs upgrading but not sure how significantly it plays into the offensive struggles. AR needs to play within the system and take what the defense is giving him rather than looking for the kill shot. 

Because they used Jones and Wiliams in unique ways.  Those two had more receiving yards than the "WR" corp.  Why Mayo went away from that I'm not entirely sure but my guess is it wouldn't take teams long to shut it down.  Jones lining up at WR should be a pretty good indicator as to how poor this WR corp is.

I'm not sure if it's truly an endorsement on how bad the WR corp is or an attempt from LaFluffer to be creative by putting Jones in position to get more touches.  

It is all about match ups and getting Jones isolated with a LBer. Defenses are ready for it now, so that is why we've seen it less. Listening to Romo during a NE game, he was showing what a chess match it is. When NE moved Edelman out wide if the defense still doubled him it would leave the middle of the field vulnerable, etc. interesting stuff. 

The games I was referring to were the Raiders and Chiefs. Another stat that points to it not being primarily a receiver problem: Packers have the best first-quarter offense in the league. MLF's scripting works really well and the offense struggles after that.

While it definitely would be an indication the playbook is a little light with the first year transition wouldn't that also point to the inability of the WR corp to play outside of a scripted offense?  That's pretty important.  Jones and Williams are still running the ball but that's more incumbent on a vet oline doing their job.

Not letting Rodgers off the hook either.  He's a part of this evolving offense and I'm sure there is still some level of adjustment with a first year/time HC.  I don't buy the trust issue bit but we do know he's cautious.  Allison was supposed to be that guy who had the great repertoire going with Rodgers and was expected to break out.  Well, that repertoire hasn't done shit as his lack of talent becomes more and more evident.  Rodgers caution is warranted in this case.  He and Lazard are starting to build continuity but again it's mostly because they both are going sandlot until Lazard is more experienced.  MVS?  Oren Burks of the offense.  

A person simply cannot entirely pin offensive issues on Rodgers or Mayo or WR because it's a combination.  With that said, common sense says that UDFA/mid to late round scrubs aren't all going to be diamonds in the rough and those guys make up the majority of the WR corp.  Maybe it was a mistake to let Cobb go simply for consistency sake.

Here's the piece on the Packers' fast starts and then inconsistency.  AR leads the league in first-quarter passing and the team is third in scoring. 

Boris posted:

FLPACKER posted:

I would think that opposing defenses are paying a little bit more attention to Sanders than they are to Lazard? 

My intention is showing the same or near same production with Lazard as Sanders.....and the Packers don't have George Kittle....and the Packers didn't have to mortgage the future with 2020 draft picks. 

Plus Sanders doesn't block as well as Lazard in the run game. 

That's all I'm saying. Not that Packers WR's are better. 

With hindsight on my side if you gave me the choice right now of having Adams, Sanders and Lazard this year vs a couple of mid round picks next year I think I'd take Sanders. Wasn't in favor of the trade at the time but since it happened MVS and others not named Lazard have been really bad. 

Can't disagree. Sometimes you need to play the cards you're dealt. I know Gutey is being smert about this. 

bvan posted:

Pistol GB posted:

The difference between a "dick" and a "pin dick" is, the pin dick does it to make up for some personal shortcoming. 

The term was 'needle dick' in my hood.

In my day it was "needle dick  the bug f**ker"

That's even better.  Henry Bug Fucker

michiganjoe posted:

Here's the piece on the Packers' fast starts and then inconsistency.  AR leads the league in first-quarter passing and the team is third in scoring. 

So when we play the Suckqueens after the 25 scripted plays are run, use the same 25 scripted plays again.  The Suckqueens are so stupid they wouldn't even realize it. 

Why can't we script like 60 plays? 

Because then you'd have to give the writers coffee breaks.

Rodgers was far from elite today other than the first td pass to Adams 

The pass to WhitewTer Jesus was elite too

#12 needs to recognize his body and what used to work had changed. It’s time to surrender to MLF and take the easy throws to stay on schedule. Much better to start the drive 2nd and 7 than 2nd and 10 or worse. Yes he can make some elite plays, but it’s the easy throws that concern me. Way too much stuff looks way too hard.

Work within the system. That’s a reasonable request if any QB.

YATittle posted:

The pass to WhitewTer Jesus was elite too

Easy throw to a wide open receiver.

Did you see the view from the pocket? Anything but easy, he had a small window to get the ball to. 

Did You?

There was a replay that showed a view from the pocket....or at least close to it. From that angle Kumerow didn’t look open at all. Maybe AR threw him open....I don’t know. Looked like great pass though. 

GBFanForLife posted:

Did You?

Yes, they showed the view on the broadcast

I’m not disputing 12 can’t make ridiculously hard throws. He can...at times. The problem I see is that he passes on less sexy open guys and looks downfield for the big play..and as a result puts the offense in 2nd and long and 3rd and long too often.

What Chongo said.

49ers stunned at home. Losing to ATL. 

Wow

packerboi posted:

49ers stunned at home. Losing to ATL. 

Wow

Atlanta with a bizarre scoring record.  Didn't they dump Carolina by 20 a week after Carolina gave us all we could handle?  They also handled the Saints pretty good, I am pretty sure.  Really strange team this year.

I hope the Falcons are eliminated from the playoffs. They beat the Niners who killed us so there's no way we could beat them. Ugh, can we just decline our playoff invitation like teams do sometimes for bowl invites? 

The 49'ers were without half of their starting defense.

Breaking my heart 💔💔💔 over here. 

Quite the logjam at the top of the NFC

YATittle posted:

The pass to WhitewTer Jesus was elite too

It was a good pass that any NFL quarterback should make.  Why are we so desperate to call 12 elite?  He's not... and it shows each week.  In fact, the next "elite" performance he has will be an anomaly on the season. 

I am not sure where to post this question. Rodgers answer to his first question at the post game press conference was something to the effect that his questioner was disrespectful. I missed what was asked and who asked it. Does anybody here know what it was? I really doubt that the official site will mention it.

I kinda caught the end of that question myself. I think he was being asked if he was happy or surprised or something for the team to be 11-3. 

His shot back was definitely chippy. 

Thanks PackerHawk. Yah, it was strange.

We all know Rodgers can be elite but he sure wasn’t yesterday.  Thankfully the defense bailed them out.   

CHI is close to top 5 DEF. AR got little help yesterday with the drops. His play continues to be inconsistent which to me is indicative of the WR/TE play.

phaedrus posted:

packerboi posted:

49ers stunned at home. Losing to ATL. 

Wow

Atlanta with a bizarre scoring record.  Didn't they dump Carolina by 20 a week after Carolina gave us all we could handle?  They also handled the Saints pretty good, I am pretty sure.  Really strange team this year.

this is why you cannot look past any team, or look past any win or game.  its not easy to win in the NFL (period).  every win is worth a win.