BrainDed posted:

If there ain't a guy there that you think can provide that to your squad, you move out. 

How do you know that they didn't try to trade out & weren't satisfied with any offers?

I forget, do you snap your fingers or click your heels to magically make a trade appear?

As much as I love the Smiths the reason they were in that position to begin with was their failure to add decent OLB pass rushers the past several years.  

As good as they were you saw them slow down a bit later in the year.  Ideally, you wouldn’t have had them playing that many snaps to keep them fresh. 

I know some don’t follow the NBA but the Bucks are a good example of how to manage workload and minutes for key players.  Just because they have Giannis doesn’t mean he should play him all the minutes a game they can because inevitably he will get hurt or fatigued.   Playing the Smiths 80% of snaps is like running Giannis out there for 36 or more minutes a game.

Tschmack posted:

As much as I love the Smiths the reason they were in that position to begin with was their failure to add decent OLB pass rushers the past several years.  

As good as they were you saw them slow down a bit later in the year.  Ideally, you wouldn’t have had them playing that many snaps to keep them fresh. 

I know some don’t follow the NBA but the Bucks are a good example of how to manage workload and minutes for key players.  Just because they have Giannis doesn’t mean he should play him all the minutes a game they can because inevitably he will get hurt or fatigued.   Playing the Smiths 80% of snaps is like running Giannis out there for 36 or more minutes a game.

Very true

Pakrz posted:

Since when do we shit all over a player after his first season?  How long did Duhvante suck before he didn't?

I am not shitting all over Gary, but Adams had pretty much production his rookie year in the playoff against Dallas than Gary had all year.

His second year he was suffering a high ankle sprain.

Invalid comparison, imo.

Tschmack posted:

I know some don’t follow the NBA but the Bucks are a good example of how to manage workload and minutes for key players.  Just because they have Giannis doesn’t mean he should play him all the minutes a game they can because inevitably he will get hurt or fatigued.   Playing the Smiths 80% of snaps is like running Giannis out there for 36 or more minutes a game.

That's why there's a Bucks forum. 

Can we start a TJ Watt forum too?

Dee Ford is a better comparison. Drafted later in R1 than Gary (23rd), but sat behind two premier players (Houston, Hali) and made very little impact early on and looked like a bust. Once he got his chance he absolutely made the most of it has become one of the top pass rushers in the NFL. His position coach? Rashan Gary's position coach Mike Smith. 

We all hope Gary becomes Dee Ford, but because Dee Ford exists isn’t the most compelling argument that Gary might become Dee Ford.  

We definitely need to give Gary more time before considering him a bust, but if you were already concerned about Gary, he did not do much this year to dispel concerns.  

There were a number of good players selected later in the first round namely Noah Fant, Josh Jacobs, Montez Sweat, and Marquise Brown.

With exception of Jacobs the other 3 players were positions of need and you could argue GB still needs more RB depth.

 

phaedrus posted:
Pakrz posted:

Since when do we shit all over a player after his first season?  How long did Duhvante suck before he didn't?

I am not shitting all over Gary, but Adams had pretty much production his rookie year in the playoff against Dallas than Gary had all year.

His second year he was suffering a high ankle sprain.

Invalid comparison, imo.

Davante, also not a big LB, DL kinda cat. Hard to tell. That's why we must be patient.

Henry posted:
Tschmack posted:

I know some don’t follow the NBA but the Bucks are a good example of how to manage workload and minutes for key players.  Just because they have Giannis doesn’t mean he should play him all the minutes a game they can because inevitably he will get hurt or fatigued.   Playing the Smiths 80% of snaps is like running Giannis out there for 36 or more minutes a game.

That's why there's a Bucks forum. 

Can we start a TJ Watt forum too?

Wait, there isn't a TJ Watt forum?

El-Nuke-the-Hurricanes-Bong posted:

We all hope Gary becomes Dee Ford, but because Dee Ford exists isn’t the most compelling argument that Gary might become Dee Ford.  

We definitely need to give Gary more time before considering him a bust, but if you were already concerned about Gary, he did not do much this year to dispel concerns.  

No he didn't and Dee Ford had more sacks his senior year than Gary did his entire college career. I'm hoping for the best here but am skeptical like many.

Goalline posted:
Henry posted:
Tschmack posted:

I know some don’t follow the NBA but the Bucks are a good example of how to manage workload and minutes for key players.  Just because they have Giannis doesn’t mean he should play him all the minutes a game they can because inevitably he will get hurt or fatigued.   Playing the Smiths 80% of snaps is like running Giannis out there for 36 or more minutes a game.

That's why there's a Bucks forum. 

Can we start a TJ Watt forum too?

Wait, there isn't a TJ Watt forum?

You just have to drink hard enough to find it.

Goalline posted:
Henry posted:
Tschmack posted:

I know some don’t follow the NBA but the Bucks are a good example of how to manage workload and minutes for key players.  Just because they have Giannis doesn’t mean he should play him all the minutes a game they can because inevitably he will get hurt or fatigued.   Playing the Smiths 80% of snaps is like running Giannis out there for 36 or more minutes a game.

That's why there's a Bucks forum. 

Can we start a TJ Watt forum too?

Wait, there isn't a TJ Watt forum?

Every forum is a TJ Watt forum.

 

 

 

 

Okay, here's a wild idea: If you want your best 11 on the field, why not move Gary to the middle like they did with CMIII? He's fast, he's athletic. He's not going to beat out either of the Smiths right now, so why not get him on the field in some role? Even if he makes the tackle within three yards of the LOS, it's an improvement of two yards over Martinez, and I'm betting Gary has better football speed and explosiveness than does Martinez.

michiganjoe posted:

Gute with nothing more than an idiot take.

Fandame posted:

Okay, here's a wild idea: If you want your best 11 on the field, why not move Gary to the middle like they did with CMIII? He's fast, he's athletic. He's not going to beat out either of the Smiths right now, so why not get him on the field in some role? Even if he makes the tackle within three yards of the LOS, it's an improvement of two yards over Martinez, and I'm betting Gary has better football speed and explosiveness than does Martinez.

Great idea

Pakrz posted:
michiganjoe posted:

Gute with nothing more than an idiot take.

No, dummy.  That Adams "sucked before he didn't".  He gutted it out as AR's #1 target on a bad ankle his second season.  Anyone watching games in late 2014 saw Adam's ability.  And production.

Fandame posted:

Okay, here's a wild idea: If you want your best 11 on the field, why not move Gary to the middle like they did with CMIII? He's fast, he's athletic. He's not going to beat out either of the Smiths right now, so why not get him on the field in some role? Even if he makes the tackle within three yards of the LOS, it's an improvement of two yards over Martinez, and I'm betting Gary has better football speed and explosiveness than does Martinez.

You're squating on my squatters rights to your original idea.  This calls for immediate retaliation.

Turn Gary into a TE. 

DH13 posted:
Pakrz posted:
michiganjoe posted:

Gute with nothing more than an idiot take.

No, dummy.  That Adams "sucked before he didn't".  He gutted it out as AR's #1 target on a bad ankle his second season.  Anyone watching games in late 2014 saw Adam's ability.  And production.

Stop being so damn hard-headed.  The point is that many people on X4 condemned "Duhvante" to the depths of hell early in his career.  There are many threads on it (Let me know if you need help with the search function to refresh your memory). 

As it relates to Gary, he's getting the same treatment by some on X4.  It's very early in his career and he has flashed the ability to be disruptive.  Writing him off as a bust at this point is his career is foolish IMO.  Gute and the coaching staff think highly of his skillset.  I'll trust their judgement. 

Henry posted:
Fandame posted:

Okay, here's a wild idea: If you want your best 11 on the field, why not move Gary to the middle like they did with CMIII? He's fast, he's athletic. He's not going to beat out either of the Smiths right now, so why not get him on the field in some role? Even if he makes the tackle within three yards of the LOS, it's an improvement of two yards over Martinez, and I'm betting Gary has better football speed and explosiveness than does Martinez.

You're squating on my squatters rights to your original idea.  This calls for immediate retaliation.

Turn Gary into a TE. 

I think all 3 of us mentioned putting Gary in the middle. Didn't he do that a lot at Michigan to keep blockers off Devin Bush? 

Pretty sure we discussed this during the season. 

Boris posted:
Henry posted:
Fandame posted:

Okay, here's a wild idea: If you want your best 11 on the field, why not move Gary to the middle like they did with CMIII? He's fast, he's athletic. He's not going to beat out either of the Smiths right now, so why not get him on the field in some role? Even if he makes the tackle within three yards of the LOS, it's an improvement of two yards over Martinez, and I'm betting Gary has better football speed and explosiveness than does Martinez.

You're squating on my squatters rights to your original idea.  This calls for immediate retaliation.

Turn Gary into a TE. 

I think all 3 of us mentioned putting Gary in the middle. Didn't he do that a lot at Michigan to keep blockers off Devin Bush? 

Pretty sure we discussed this during the season. 

I know I posted that idea at least once. 

Boris posted:
Henry posted:
Fandame posted:

Okay, here's a wild idea: If you want your best 11 on the field, why not move Gary to the middle like they did with CMIII? He's fast, he's athletic. He's not going to beat out either of the Smiths right now, so why not get him on the field in some role? Even if he makes the tackle within three yards of the LOS, it's an improvement of two yards over Martinez, and I'm betting Gary has better football speed and explosiveness than does Martinez.

You're squating on my squatters rights to your original idea.  This calls for immediate retaliation.

Turn Gary into a TE. 

I think all 3 of us mentioned putting Gary in the middle. Didn't he do that a lot at Michigan to keep blockers off Devin Bush? 

Pretty sure we discussed this during the season. 

Yeah, I brought this up a long time ago. It was successful with CMIII, so why not Gary? I don't want to believe that he's not out there just because the Smiths are better. If you believe in your guy, you find a place for him. Gary has to be better than Burks and Martinez. In fact, looking at their combine numbers, Gary has similar numbers:

                        40-yard dash     Vertical       3-cone drill   20-yd shuttle   H/W
Gary                    4.58                   38"              7.26                4.29               6'4" 277
Martinez             4.71                   28.5"           6.98                4.2                 6'2" 237
Burks                   4.59                   39.5"           6.82                4.15              6'3" 233

Can you imagine at least trying out a LB crew of Z & P Smith and Gary? It's worth a shot...

             

From December 5th... Why not?

Pakrz posted:

To Hank's point, I recall a certain Levon Kirkland in Pittsburgh that was a beast of a MLB for years.  I think that dude played at 6'1" and 275+ lbs.  Rare athlete for sure, but Gary is said to be a physical freak as well.  

DH13 posted:
Pakrz posted:
michiganjoe posted:

Gute with nothing more than an idiot take.

No, dummy.  That Adams "sucked before he didn't".  He gutted it out as AR's #1 target on a bad ankle his second season.  Anyone watching games in late 2014 saw Adam's ability.  And production.

LOL, when did DH develop dementia? What a fool.

Pakrz posted:
DH13 posted:
Pakrz posted:
michiganjoe posted:

Gute with nothing more than an idiot take.

No, dummy.  That Adams "sucked before he didn't".  He gutted it out as AR's #1 target on a bad ankle his second season.  Anyone watching games in late 2014 saw Adam's ability.  And production.

Stop being so damn hard-headed.  The point is that many people on X4 condemned "Duhvante" to the depths of hell early in his career.  There are many threads on it (Let me know if you need help with the search function to refresh your memory). 

As it relates to Gary, he's getting the same treatment by some on X4.  It's very early in his career and he has flashed the ability to be disruptive.  Writing him off as a bust at this point is his career is foolish IMO.  Gute and the coaching staff think highly of his skillset.  I'll trust their judgement. 

Oh the obtuse hypocrisy!

Yes, many people bashed Davante during his injured second season and some still do.  Try the search function.  I'll keep reminding them they were wrong.  He showed plenty of promise and production late in his rookie year then picked it back up on year 3.

Doesn't really compare to Gary at all other than his showing promise in his limited snaps.  I've defended him many times.  Look it up.  Sounds like you might know how. 

We're saying the same goddamn thing!

 

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