Love him or hate him Rush has passed today:
Add Reaction
ðŊâĪïļððððĪððđððâïļððŧððŋðĒðĪŠðĪĢâ
ððĪ·ðĨðððĪŊOriginal Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
No matter which way someone leans politically you have to give him credit for the impact he has had.
Dude changed politics and media immensely. Expert self-promoter.
He was a racist, misogynist, homophobic piece of shit that spent every day of his life trying to make the world meaner and dumber just to earn a buck.
The world is a slightly better place today now that he's dead. Fuck him.
Rush Limbaugh died of lung cancer. Here were his thoughts on smoking earlier.
On the dangers of secondhand smoking, and smoking in general: "That is a myth. That has been disproven at the World Health Organization and the report was suppressed. There is no fatality whatsoever. There's no even major sickness component associated with secondhand smoke. It may irritate you, and you may not like it, but it will not make you sick, and it will not kill you...Firsthand smoke takes 50 years to kill people, if it does. Not everybody that smokes gets cancer. Now, it's true that everybody who smokes dies, but so does everyone who eats carrots ... I would like a medal for smoking cigars, is what I'm saying."
@Timpranillo posted:He was a racist, misogynist, homophobic piece of shit that spent every day of his life trying to make the world meaner and dumber just to earn a buck.
The world is a slightly better place today now that he's dead. Fuck him.
Bull Shit!!!!
He was the original conservotrash Orwellian. The pioneer of lies are truth. The forerunner of "fake news". The titanically fat pacifier for disaffected limp dick butthurt fucks.
I look forward to you being eternally tea bagged by devil goats with porcupine balls in the newly opened 10th circle of hell. You'll have plenty of company soon enough.
Whether you hated him or liked him, his main contribution was to convince media executives that there was a lot of money to make by catering to the extremes of the political discussion on both the right and the left. They saw it was much more profitable to enrage or scare people than it was to inform them or to promote a debate of ideas and try to reach consensus and compromise. He contributed to the idea that everything in politics is a zero-sum game and there is no honor in even "winning" a policy debate 60/40. It's 100 to 0 or nothing.
Without him, there is likely no Hannity, O'Reilly, Chris Matthews, or Maddow. Because of his influence, the United States is a much darker and polarized place.
Because of him Conservatives were able to listen to a voice that was more in sync with their beliefs rather than having to hear the Lefts spin on things by the Dan Rathers and Bryan Williams of the world...I know all conservatives are now mysoginist, white supremast, racists, hate filled conspiracy filled lunatics to our left leaning friends but hopefully one day they will learn there are just as many left leaning bigots and racists and white supremast as there are those that lean right.
Well stated MP2. But, you forgot to add the fact that he was a scumbag.
https://twitter.com/rauchway/s...130645133139976?s=19
Twitter, April 30, 1945: âWish people could honor a person who changed Europe forever without being cruel. You didnât like him? Fine. Keep it to yourself for a few days."
He once had a regular segment where he read the names of some gay people who died of AIDS that day and had party horns and other sound effects.
So that's a great voice to represent people.
@Floridarob posted:Because of him Conservatives were able to listen to a voice that was more in sync with their beliefs rather than having to hear the Lefts spin on things by the Dan Rathers and Bryan Williams of the world...I know all conservatives are now mysoginist, white supremast, racists, hate filled conspiracy filled lunatics to our left leaning friends but hopefully one day they will learn there are just as many left leaning bigots and racists and white supremast as there are those that lean right.
BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Floridarob posted:Because of him Conservatives were able to listen to a voice that was more in sync with their beliefs rather than having to hear the Lefts spin on things by the Dan Rathers and Bryan Williams of the world...I know all conservatives are now mysoginist, white supremast, racists, hate filled conspiracy filled lunatics to our left leaning friends but hopefully one day they will learn there are just as many left leaning bigots and racists and white supremast as there are those that lean right.
Except that's 100% a lie. Why? Most of those "left leaning bigots" are the people of color, LBGTQ or women Limbaugh has pissed on and derided for decades. Talk about fantasy projection.
Just say you agree with every vile thing that came out of his mouth and be done with it. You're a good little acolyte. Lies are truth.
@Floridarob posted:Because of him Conservatives were able to listen to a voice that was more in sync with their beliefs rather than having to hear the Lefts spin on things by the Dan Rathers and Bryan Williams of the world...I know all conservatives are now mysoginist, white supremast, racists, hate filled conspiracy filled lunatics to our left leaning friends but hopefully one day they will learn there are just as many left leaning bigots and racists and white supremast as there are those that lean right.
You can't actually believe this? If so you must have been living in a cave for the past 4 years.
This man peddled lie after lie. He and his ilk did nothing but divide this country with lies. "Rest in Piss"
When I get to Hell.
WHERE'S RUSH LIMBAUGH!!
Limbaugh and Trump are two of the top ten worst people this country has ever coughed up. One down, one to go.
Feminaziâs!
@Henry posted:Except that's 100% a lie. Why? Most of those "left leaning bigots" are the people of color, LBGTQ or women Limbaugh has pissed on and derided for decades. Talk about fantasy projection.
Just say you agree with every vile thing that came out of his mouth and be done with it. You're a good little acolyte. Lies are truth.
100% lie? Yea right-Robert Byrd was probably a closet conservative. He had to be. He ran a KKK chapter. Only conservatives are racist. You and the rest of the left spout that nonsense.
I just hope I never die.
You people âĒ would be merciless in the thread dedicated to my lifetime of X4 achievement.
There would be a thread, wouldn't there?
does being "a voice" mean you get to compartmentalize the guy, or take him part and parcel? Called a 12 year old a dog, that's not a voice I want to celebrate. Lauded AIDs deaths, not very noble. Hated gay people for being gay, I guess it got 20 million listeners. Shit over MJF for having Parkinson's, was he the "voice of punching down"? There are years of examples.
About everyone who ends up dead in these threads has flaws and skeletons, it's OK to acknowledge that.
Rush was a vile and hateful person who got rich saying things that resonated with a lot of people.
Thus the problem
I bet he died of cancel culture
@Floridarob posted:100% lie? Yea right-Robert Byrd was probably a closet conservative. He had to be. He ran a KKK chapter. Only conservatives are racist. You and the rest of the left spout that nonsense.
I didnât know Dixiecrats were left leaning. You know, those shitbags from the south that became Republicans if they didnât die off first.
But hey, you should continue to make very Rush Limbaugh like false equivalencies as he was the master of it. Paved the way for you to actually believe what youâre saying isnât a lie.
@Henry posted:Thereâs a few million more but I completely agree!
How do you eat an elephant? One spoonful at a time.
Alex Jones is at the top of any such list.
Rush Limbaugh has been inspiring hate in America for 50 years. Using his own words, here's why you shouldn't give a fuck about him or his death. pic.twitter.com/XnzCNL8B5k
â Fifty Shades of Whey (@davenewworld_2) February 17, 2021
Donnie may take his spot, heâs got the time, unlimited BS and needs money......the beat could go on.
And now live from Attica!
@Henry posted:I didnât know Dixiecrats were left leaning. You know, those shitbags from the south that became Republicans if they didnât die off first.
But hey, you should continue to make very Rush Limbaugh like false equivalencies as he was the master of it. Paved the way for you to actually believe what youâre saying isnât a lie.
or so I said there are democrats who were bigots and racists. You said, Noooooo. I gave you one. And you spin it. Your spinning makes anything Rush did look elementary. The damn democratic senator was a damn KKK leader.. But that doesnt count. Got it. Fucking Hypocrite..But like all things Left, just change the story regardless if it is true or not. If you say it enough times it becomes truth. Nobody does it as well as the left....Bill Clinton signed legislation that segregation should never end. Must have been a conservative. Al Gores dad was a demacratic senator who voted against the Civil Rights Act. Had to be a damn republican or one of those DixieCrats...Hypocrite....
oh and shame on that conservative right leaning George Wallace. He really brought the conservative movement down with his racists actions...What? He was a democrat? No Effing way!!
@Floridarob posted:or so I said there are democrats who were bigots and racists. You said, Noooooo. I gave you one. And you spin it. Your spinning makes anything Rush did look elementary. The damn democratic senator was a damn KKK leader.. But that doesnt count. Got it. Fucking Hypocrite..But like all things Left, just change the story regardless if it is true or not. If you say it enough times it becomes truth. Nobody does it as well as the left....Bill Clinton signed legislation that segregation should never end. Must have been a conservative. Al Gores dad was a demacratic senator who voted against the Civil Rights Act. Had to be a damn republican or one of those DixieCrats...Hypocrite....
This IS SO PAST TENSE........welcome to the new world of Blacks, women, gays, transexuals, and any other behind the curtain of life livers. WE ARE ALL EQUAL. Limballs thrived on being white and denigrating every other race, sex, religious and gender, and I DESPISED HIM FOR IT. ðĪŽ ðĪŽ ðĪŽ
To paraphrase Frankie Boyle: instead of a funeral, they should give everyone who Rush Limbaugh harassed and victimised a shovel, so they can dig a hole so deep they can hand him over to Satan personally.
â Ed "SuperSweetBoy" Sweet (@EdwardTSweet) February 17, 2021
You tell him Goldie!!!!!!!!!!
Rush Limbaugh had a segment called "AIDS update" set to music where he mocked dying gay people so I don't really want hear about 'speaking ill of the dead' today
â Jessica Valenti (@JessicaValenti) February 17, 2021
And before anyone even says "bullshit"to the above, try again asshole: https://www.snopes.com/fact-ch...augh-mock-aids-gays/
He was nothing short of a vile, abhorrent individual who spread hate like gasoline on a fire.
From the Rolling Stone:
Over three decades on the national airwaves, Limbaugh promoted profoundly offensive ideas, often referring to feminists as âfeminazisâ; long calling AIDS âthe Rock Hudson diseaseâ; and once observing that the NFL âlooks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons.â
https://www.rollingstone.com/p...mbaugh-dead-1129217/
Fuck anyone who even dares to defend him. This has nothing to do with Republican vs Democrat or conservative vs liberal. This is entirely about a hate monger who lived to divide people and incite loathing among humanity. The world became a better, kinder place today.
And to think he received the Medal of Freedom in all our names.
Here's Limpdick mocking Michael J Fox about his Parkinson's
What a class act.......
@Floridarob posted:or so I said there are democrats who were bigots and racists. You said, Noooooo. I gave you one. And you spin it. Your spinning makes anything Rush did look elementary. The damn democratic senator was a damn KKK leader.. But that doesnt count. Got it. Fucking Hypocrite..But like all things Left, just change the story regardless if it is true or not. If you say it enough times it becomes truth. Nobody does it as well as the left....Bill Clinton signed legislation that segregation should never end. Must have been a conservative. Al Gores dad was a demacratic senator who voted against the Civil Rights Act. Had to be a damn republican or one of those DixieCrats...Hypocrite....
This is going to be a little puzzle for Rob. Take this post, put on your detective hat or hood, whichever works. Read my first post to your response of "there's just has many left leaning bigots" and then try to deduce how saying "Robert Byrd" comes remotely close to addressing what I said.
You can't and do you want to know why? Because you're so conditioned by the likes of Rush Limbaugh it is literally impossible for you to understand your lies, your inability to apply critical thinking, your inability to apply and understand empathy, you're full Tuberville.
"BUT THERE'S A WORD I RECOGNIZE!" I don't know the historical context of it or any of the reasoning because I don't want to. Thanks Rush! You taught me how to argue with libs by lying to myself and making a mockery of basic logic.
@Floridarob posted:oh and shame on that conservative right leaning George Wallace. He really brought the conservative movement down with his racists actions...What? He was a democrat? No Effing way!!
This isn't a democrat or republican thing. It's about being a decent human being, which limpdick was not. It's O.K. to dislike someone even if they are on "your side".
Satan earlier today: pic.twitter.com/sk3IniR2Iz
â Lana Del Gay ðģïļâððŧâĻ (@McClellandShane) February 18, 2021
May he rest in peace. He was influential. His time is gone now. Who will be next? Time waits for no one. And it wont wait for you. So, all you sanctimonious, righteous bystanders claiming some sort of victory here are sadly the sort of losers we need to curtail. The man died, he deserves a modicum of respect for his accomplishments. JMHO You will meet your maker soon enough..
@Henry posted:This is going to be a little puzzle for Rob. Take this post, put on your detective hat or hood, whichever works. Read my first post to your response of "there's just has many left leaning bigots" and then try to deduce how saying "Robert Byrd" comes remotely close to addressing what I said.
You can't and do you want to know why? Because you're so conditioned by the likes of Rush Limbaugh it is literally impossible for you to understand your lies, your inability to apply critical thinking, your inability to apply and understand empathy, you're full Tuberville.
"BUT THERE'S A WORD I RECOGNIZE!" I don't know the historical context of it or any of the reasoning because I don't want to. Thanks Rush! You taught me how to argue with libs by lying to myself and making a mockery of basic logic.
My Hood? nice Henry. Fuck You!
@Floridarob posted:oh and shame on that conservative right leaning George Wallace. He really brought the conservative movement down with his racists actions...What? He was a democrat? No Effing way!!
Again, a Dixiecrat? You, of all people, should be incredibly familiar with the term and the ideology. You do realize it was a widely used term right?
I feel like I shouldnât have to explain recent American history to you but then I look at the tropes you shovel and really have to wonder if maybe you really arenât that intelligent.
Remember those Kennedy guys? The Catholic fellas. I think your type called the Catholic Church the âwhore of Babylonâ among other things. So these papist Kennedys decided to recognize the civil rights movements in the South, where shitbag Dixiecrats live. See, these Kennedy guys were also Democrats like the Dixiecrats but them shitbag Dixiecrats was all âstates rightsâ over letting people have basic dignity and rights. So, these papists along with a LBJ, who was racist as hell, still recognized the civil rights movement and even signed basic human decency into law! Crazy!
So hereâs LBJ after them papist fellars got greased signing some of the most significant civil rights legislation in 100 years! Now them there George Wallace Dixiecrat types werenât havinâ any of that. So this guy Richard Nixon comes around and he revives this thing called âThe Southern Strategyâ. It was originally a Hoover thing but the opportunity of plucking those Dixiecrat heaps oâ shit was just too easy. But the guy who done did a slam dunk on getting scumbags to vote for him was Ronald Reagan. Him and Lee Atwater absolutely churned fear and hate to use it as a tool against probably one of the most morally upstanding presidents to ever hold the position. The one son of the south your ilk despises, Jimmy Carter.
Hate + Dixiecrats = Republicans who storm the Capitol.
@DurangoDoug posted:May he rest in peace. He was influential. His time is gone now. Who will be next? Time waits for no one. And it wont wait for you. So, all you sanctimonious, righteous bystanders claiming some sort of victory here are sadly the sort of losers we need to curtail. The man died, he deserves a modicum of respect for his accomplishments. JMHO You will meet your maker soon enough..
Maybe you shouldnât have been the complete dumbfuck you are and opened this thread.
I can personally guarantee the only thing that will be curtailed is traitorous fucks like Limbaugh and his fans.
And now Baby Robin (ALL MOUTH AND ASS) Vos has asked Gov. Evers to lower flags to half staff in honor of Limbaugh in a show of bipartasinship. I hope Gov. Evers tells Vos to go FUCK himself!
Accomplishments?
@DurangoDoug posted:May he rest in peace. He was influential. His time is gone now. Who will be next? Time waits for no one. And it wont wait for you. So, all you sanctimonious, righteous bystanders claiming some sort of victory here are sadly the sort of losers we need to curtail. The man died, he deserves a modicum of respect for his accomplishments. JMHO You will meet your maker soon enough..
No, this is not me being a sanctimonious righteous bystander, he doesnât deserve my sympathy, he was one of the first that made Americans feel they werenât worthy of being called American. AND NO HE DOESNâT NEED A MODICUM OF RESPECT......I hope all the âlow lifeâ as he called them meet him with open arms love and respect. He doesnât deserve it.
Respect is earned, not given. Even a modicum.
Henry's on a bender. Sucks to be him. That sorry son-of-a bitch has his his head so far up his arse he cant see the forest for the trees. Per usual. Your time is coming, and it wont be pretty. Jackwad.
I just want to celebrate another day of Rush not livinâ.
@DurangoDoug posted:Henry's on a bender. Sucks to be him. That sorry son-of-a bitch has his his head so far up his arse he cant see the forest for the trees. Per usual. Your time is coming, and it wont be pretty. Jackwad.
You are not a smart person.
Let me know if you want to make good on that threat.
Ok, ok, ok, Democrats and Republicans NEED TO GET TOGETHER. NUFF SAID. ðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļðšðļ
I would have loved to have some of Henry's and all of your views archived over the last 40 years, then played back. I'm sure you all were bastions of consistency, tolerance and forward thinking. ð I have no problem recognizing how someone can be immensely talented, hold to ideas that may evwn be harmful and at the same time be charitable. Rush raised millions of dollars for charity. If we honest with ourselves we are at best walking contradictions. Good luck out there riding around on your high horses however.
Participating in #RandomActsofKindnessDay , Satan took back Rush Limbaugh. pic.twitter.com/KmH7DzvIgX
â Lil' Peggy Snowflake (@mmargaretmary1) February 17, 2021
Rush raised millions of dollars for charity. ????? Good for him. Can I ask which ones??
Cant believe how rong you are Goldie. Disagree, yes, but your premise is rong. People have the right to disagree. Period. So just because you disagree your morally superior? Methinks not. Again, the man died, give respect to a life. Your maker is coming too. Will you be on the right side of justice, or just another flame in the wind. Only your maker can determine how you lived your life. Get a grip and be a bigger person so the end result favors you.
@Sufferinginmn posted:I would have loved to have some of Henry's and all of your views archived over the last 40 years, then played back. I'm sure you all were bastions of consistency, tolerance and forward thinking. ð I have no problem recognizing how someone can be immensely talented, hold to ideas that may evwn be harmful and at the same time be charitable. Rush raised millions of dollars for charity. If we honest with ourselves we are at best walking contradictions. Good luck out there riding around on your high horses however.
You would be 100% wrong if you ever believed Iâm not honest with myself everyday. You feel to dig up whatever you like. I own it.
There are virtually millions of entities that perform charity but Iâm not exactly sure how that washes away the exponential damage done to a society. Itâs like praising robber barons who exploited every element of society but in their waning days become âphilanthropistsâ.
How do I say this more simply, fuck you. Donât you ever make the slightest comparison of me to a pile of shit like Limbaugh.
@DurangoDoug posted:Cant believe how rong you are Goldie. Disagree, yes, but your premise is rong. People have the right to disagree. Period. So just because you disagree your morally superior? Methinks not. Again, the man died, give respect to a life. Your maker is coming too. Will you be on the right side of justice, or just another flame in the wind. Only your maker can determine how you lived your life. Get a grip and be a bigger person so the end result favors you.
Jesus fuck.
What exactly is this religion of yours? I just hope youâre regularly out on the street corner shoveling this attempt at revivalism for the chronically daft. The visual is awesome.
Do you have hymnals?
@DurangoDoug posted:Cant believe how rong you are Goldie. Disagree, yes, but your premise is rong. People have the right to disagree. Period. So just because you disagree your morally superior? Methinks not. Again, the man died, give respect to a life. Your maker is coming too. Will you be on the right side of justice, or just another flame in the wind. Only your maker can determine how you lived your life. Get a grip and be a bigger person so the end result favors you.
Doug, thanks for your opinion......I will give respect to a life, just not his. He was one of the worst people, he did not respect the life of others that wereâ t like him. I could say fat, privileged and WHITE, but I wonât. But he didnât tolerate any lives but his, or his kind. I hope I will be more then a flame in the wind, I work for the people that limballs disrespected.
@Blair Kiel posted:There would be a thread, wouldn't there?
2 actually. When you die, then a week later when Goldie posts.
Coach will start the first one.
But nobody will see it because Coach blocked himself. Kielâs memorial thread will be lost in the time loop of David Hasselhoffâs crotch.
One thing I can always rely on is a fuck you from henry ð Not comparing you to rush. I'm just saying from my experience I've met good people who hold to very bad ideas and bad people that express very good ideas. Also, I'm glad I grew up in a time that a lot of my bad ideas, views of the world weren't videotaped, or put on the internet to see. In the end time has taught me to be a bit more generous with people I disagree with. At the same time, it doesn't matter to me if people hate Limbaugh and he does deserve every bit of criticism for a lot of ignorant things he said. At the same time he was an unquestionable broadcast talent who single handedly revived the medium of AM radio.
But you do understand he purposely pursued a path of making a career out of hate? Itâs not like being a dumb shit kid or holding an opinion that changed over time.
This isnât an overstatement, Rush was Goebbels like. I find zero ability to make any kind of comparison of his hate to the growing pains of a normal, empathic but episodically stupid average individual.
Letâs call a spade a spade, his talent was latent hate in a microphone. Whatever good he performed was far eclipsed by the damage he did on an immense scale.
Give respect to all lives! Again, Henry is such a prick he has his head so far up his arse he does not know if he's coming or going. But the mods here allow him for whatever reason? So be it, I recall the day's when he was banned. Those were the good days. BTW, I have a Masters degree and spent 22 years serving in the Air Force. Has Henry served? or did he chicken out. Seems like he took the easy route to criticize everyone whilst never having served his country. Such a loser, smart as he is, but loser nonetheless.
âBTW, I have a Masters degree and spent 22 years serving in the Air Forceâ. So??? Itâs still just your opinion. AND we all have ours as well. 
Thank you for your service
You are not good at this. Having a degree and still being this stupid doesnât speak well of your alma mater.
I have to tell you, jingoism isnât going to get you very far. Sitting with your finger up your ass collecting a paycheck from the government isnât praise worthy. Pretending youâre âprotecting my freedomâ is a fucking joke. I suggest you and the other clowns who think slapping on a uniform or fighting in wars that shouldâve never been fought in the first place are heroes go pound sand. Fuck your militarist screeds.
This militarist schlock was the bread and butter of pukes like Limbaugh. Societies are built and maintained by the work and sacrifices of the many on all levels.
Where are the flyovers for the peace makers?
That's a fair point henry, just don't think the guy was goebels lite.
Tokyo Rose then.
@Pikes Peak posted:Thank you for your service
I want a refund.
Of course Goldie, 3 weeks late and a dollar short, we all have our opinions and yours is not valid. I was responding to Henry's comment I was dumb. Not true. He's a cocksucker extraordinaire, but most of us know that. May your maker be kind to you for not being religious enough to accept all beings to their home after death. So righteous of you. Your time is coming, as is mine. I choose the path of forgiveness. You seem to have hate from within.
These posts are priceless.
âReligious enoughâ
@Henry posted:Tokyo Rose then.
ððĪĢ
Henry has more hate from within than any person I've ever known. What a clueless bastard. Attacking me for military service? Of course he was too chicken to ever serve, loser.
I failed the religiousity exam.
Wow, who woulda thought it would take the death of a great man like Rush Limbuagh to bring about such a stirring debate? 
In case I get misinterpreted here, the fat bastard can rot in hell. Hell doesn't exist BTW, so he can just rot wherever his body or ashes end up.
@Floridarob posted:My Hood? nice Henry. Fuck You!
I want that phrase as my X4 tag line.
#MH?NHFY
Now itâs a good thread.
Such hate from folks. Sad, really. Why cant people just live and let live. But no the haters gotta hate.
OK Doug, you tell us we should respect the life of Limbaugh no matter what he said. But then you go 100% the other direction with Henry. This is hypocrisy at it's greatest.
When did Rush Limbaugh ever follow this advice? He taught a generation to hate.
Full transparency.
When Rush came onto the scene, I was a traveling salesman who spent his days in the carâ-he was âmust listenâ for right of center political discussions. On one of our first dates, I took Mrs. Kiel to the old Milwaukee Auditorium to see him on his âRush to Excellenceâ Tour...Mrs. Kiel called him âRush Lumpheadâ
He was non pc before pc became a thing, hence the somewhat out of context comments by him youâve read. That said, as the years went on, he did become increasingly partisan, more nasty and less funny (like Glen Beck) and reveled in helping many non free thinkers hit the hate button.
I moved on from him by 2000 or so, so I canât even comment on what his schtick had been the past 20 years, other than the occasional outrageous shit that he pulled off with regularity.
That said, he has probably been one of the top 10 influencers in politics over the past 30 years. He was quite a brand. Much like other unnamed (alleged) Republicans, somehow he attained a cult of personality, which is never a good thing, is it? (Unless itâs being an Elizabeth Hurley fan)
@DurangoDoug posted:Such hate from folks. Sad, really. Why cant people just live and let live. But no the haters gotta hate.
Pug is about 10 years behind the sad tropes of âowninâ libsâ. Get yourself a Pepe or a QAnon.
@DurangoDoug posted:Such hate from folks. Sad, really. Why cant people just live and let live. But no the haters gotta hate.
I thought about a biting snarky response along the lines of âif you donât like hate from folks and it bothers you when people canât just live and let live, wait until I tell you about this what this Rush Limbaugh guy did!â
I thought about posting just a small selection in a lifetime of your heroâs bile filled hateful comments to point out the abject hypocrisy of your comment.
I thought about posting the old drug PSA video of âI learned it from you dad, I learned it from watching you okâ
But, at the end of the day, I just feel bad for you. Itâs hard when a mirror is held up in front of you and you have to come to grips with it.
And that sentiment is real Pug because Timp can lay down a snark Olâ Country Buffet. So he really thinks youâre pathetic.
The other problem is having to go through Rushâs sewage just to post it. Thatâs why I like the Indy gif. To the point.
@Sufferinginmn posted:ð I have no problem recognizing how someone can be immensely talented,
This is the problem. Limbaugh flunked out of college and went into radio. He took on such air names as "Bachelor Jeff" Christie and Rusty Sharpe....the problem is that he kept getting fired. He left radio for 4 years, returned in 1983. he kicked around some more until a something happened that was a godsend for him....the repeal of the "Fairness Doctrine", which had required that stations give equal airtime to any editorial commentary....this was gold for Rush, he found his niche' by being everyone's loud, drunk uncle at the Christmas party . He tapped into the worst of people .....doesn't this sound a lot like our last president, same "snake oil salesman" past? "Immensely talented" ....wow, that is a low bar.
Rush was an entertainer. I don't consider the things he did any different from an actor playing a Nazi in a movie. It's all fake, it's a character. Remember when Alex Jones admitted in his deposition that he was playing a character on a show? Where did he learn that from? Rush found an audience that wanted to hear something specific and he said it over and over and over until it was monetized. And he adapted over time to what his audience wanted to hear. Give the people what they want...celebrating the deaths of LGBTQ AIDS victims, belittling black athletes, disparaging women, etc. His audience is adult white men who feel threatened by every other group in society and want to hear i rationalized as to why those groups are less than. That's not exclusive to conservatives btw, Rush wasn't "cancelled" because his message isn't just for conservatives. If Rush believed he could make more money off being a SJW or liberal audience you better believe he would have followed that path.
Itâs too bad those types of entertainers become POTUS and cast the country into chaos.
He wasnât a mere entertainer and there is blood his and others hands. I do agree with you itâs a reflection of how sick our society is. Instead of moving towards resolution of our past it tore the chasm wide open. It again legitimized what we had just come to realize was illegitimate and evil even if it dwelled in so many peopleâs minds.
There is only so much âfreedomâ in causing outright destruction. This isnât just opinions, itâs decades long sedition in the form of screaming "fire" in a crowded theater. We actually use the excuse that âfreedom of expressionâ is the ultimate pinnacle instead of finding ways to be morally responsible. Itâs understandable why so many nations push back on American âfreedomâ and wish to establish democracies that mirror their society. We talk about how capitalism brings freedom, which is complete horseshit. That kind of libertarian robber baron pillaging strips cultures of their essence.
The Japanese gladly accepted democracy after years of militarism but you will find a multitude of Japanese scholars and politicians who wished there was more elements of their society in the new democratic framework. When they rose up to support the very freedoms we supposedly bestowed on them, we crushed it in the name of the Cold War.
These are the deep seated meanings behind the bile that Rush spewed. This cover of âfiscal and moral responsibilityâ was nothing more than another form of subjugation. Freedom of speech was abused to run for cover and de facto disavow what he supposedly stood for.
We are a sick culture. We praise depravity and mock the earnest sacrifices of the morally responsible unknown heroes. We worship militarists and a police state instead of praising the pioneers of a moral society.
He was the pinnacle of that sickness and it played out in full view for the last 4 years.
@Grave Digger posted:Rush was an entertainer. I don't consider the things he did any different from an actor playing a Nazi in a movie. It's all fake, it's a character. Remember when Alex Jones admitted in his deposition that he was playing a character on a show? Where did he learn that from? Rush found an audience that wanted to hear something specific and he said it over and over and over until it was monetized. And he adapted over time to what his audience wanted to hear. Give the people what they want...celebrating the deaths of LGBTQ AIDS victims, belittling black athletes, disparaging women, etc. His audience is adult white men who feel threatened by every other group in society and want to hear i rationalized as to why those groups are less than. That's not exclusive to conservatives btw, Rush wasn't "cancelled" because his message isn't just for conservatives. If Rush believed he could make more money off being a SJW or liberal audience you better believe he would have followed that path.
Have you been reading Stuart Stevens new book?
People seem to forget that H.W. ran as a liberal Republican against Reagan in 1980. He was seemingly the last vestige of the Eisenhower wing of the party. That extinction is what lead to our current state of affairs. His own son was co-opted by what H.W. and others called âthe kooks in the basementâ. Just like Friedman and Hayak who spawned the Chicago Boys, they were the âkooks in basementâ and yet here we are in a neo-liberal paradise of no responsibility, some mythical belief in a moral invisible hand in the market. McCarthy defeated Eisenhower.
Whatâs even more insane is those âkooks in the basementâ are now operations like The Lincoln Project.
Rush amplified this sickness to unheard of levels.
@Blair Kiel posted:Dude changed politics and media immensely. Expert self-promoter.
For the worse.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:Rush Limbaugh died of lung cancer. Here were his thoughts on smoking earlier.
On the dangers of secondhand smoking, and smoking in general: "That is a myth. That has been disproven at the World Health Organization and the report was suppressed. There is no fatality whatsoever. There's no even major sickness component associated with secondhand smoke. It may irritate you, and you may not like it, but it will not make you sick, and it will not kill you...Firsthand smoke takes 50 years to kill people, if it does. Not everybody that smokes gets cancer. Now, it's true that everybody who smokes dies, but so does everyone who eats carrots ... I would like a medal for smoking cigars, is what I'm saying."
What do the Buddhists call that again?
@DH13 posted:He once had a regular segment where he read the names of some gay people who died of AIDS that day and had party horns and other sound effects.
So that's a great voice to represent people.
Florida Rob, conservative people support this? In that case I renounce my conservatism. You know it is not true, right? Lots of conservative folks denounced this piece of shit for what he did to our country. Because of people like him we have never been more divided.
If this thread is a microcosm of the coming together of political parties, we are all fucked....Cancel Culture if you dont believe a certain way and non acceptance of any type of dissenting opinion from both sides. I can say the only reason I speak of anything poltical on here is anonymity.I would never discuss anything political in a social setting. Hell, discussing things on X4 is scary enough with the rhetoric that is spewed. I believe that things will get a lot worse before they get better and the only way I see it better is if we all, especial conservatives, acquiesce. It will no longer Make America Great Again, it will be a Make a New America. Hold on for the ride....
@Goalline posted:Florida Rob, conservative people support this? In that case I renounce my conservatism. You know it is not true, right? Lots of conservative folks denounced this piece of shit for what he did to our country. Because of people like him we have never been more divided.
Absolutely not. I do know he said later that he totally regretted that. I have no idea what would cause someone to go down that road. I would not speak that way of a dying dog. He deserves any and all criticism for that.
We had a great chance for a reset recently. Didnât happen. If it doesnât happen after March 4 it probably wonât for quite a while.
Iâm 72. Probably wonât see it.
I really don't care about political parties and will call out Democrats as well as Republicans when they lie .... but the problem is that right now politicians who happen to be Republican and media who back them, just happen to lie with much more frequency than those who happen to be Democrat. The result is that a huge portion of our uneducated, gullible population (not saying that this is ALL Republicans, but a good % of Trump's base) believes every lie they hear. Having the Governor of Texas do an interview in which he never mentions "green energy" as having anything to do with their power outages but then within hours goes on Fox and puts blame on the "green deal" for the outages ....even though it only accounts for 10% of the power grid in Texas. This, after Tucker Carlson proclaimed that Texas has become "totally reliant" on wind turbines. Crazy when you hear people repeating what they've heard from Hannity & Carlson, even though it is untrue, but you can't change their minds with facts as long as people with an audience are allowed to lie in the name of "free speech"
@Floridarob posted:If this thread is a microcosm of the coming together of political parties, we are all fucked....Cancel Culture if you dont believe a certain way and non acceptance of any type of dissenting opinion from both sides. I can say the only reason I speak of anything poltical on here is anonymity.I would never discuss anything political in a social setting. Hell, discussing things on X4 is scary enough with the rhetoric that is spewed. I believe that things will get a lot worse before they get better and the only way I see it better is if we all, especial conservatives, acquiesce. It will no longer Make America Great Again, it will be a Make a New America. Hold on for the ride....
You're scared of rhetoric? Meanwhile you're hot raging mad because people are not genuflecting in deference to a racist, misogynist, homophobic pig that did nothing but spew rhetoric every moment of his life?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
FLPackfan. all media outlets fabricate stuff and not just Carlson and Hannity. We watched as the Cuomo brothers did their nightly comedy routine during the pandemic and made us all believe that things were being handled well in New York. I have to say I was impressed with Cuomo handling of the Pandemic at the time and thought Trump should take a lesson from him. And the damn left gave him some award for how he handled it. Now the muderer is under investigation for the way he handled it. And now his younger brother goes silent in response. Screw them all.
@Floridarob posted:oh and shame on that conservative right leaning George Wallace. He really brought the conservative movement down with his racists actions...What? He was a democrat? No Effing way!!
Interesting that you have to go back to the stone age to find the racists you disagree with.
@Floridarob posted:Absolutely not. I do know he said later that he totally regretted that. I have no idea what would cause someone to go down that road. I would not speak that way of a dying dog. He deserves any and all criticism for that.
I am all for redemption. Glad he took it back. Lots of Dems did the same with gay marriage. I remember Obama stating before he was elected that he did not support gay marriage.
@Timpranillo posted:You're scared of rhetoric? Meanwhile you're hot raging mad because people are not genuflecting in deference to a racist, misogynist, homophobic pig that did nothing but spew rhetoric every moment of his life?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
well lets just say we dont see his life the same way. Rage all you want. I doubt you spent five minutes ever listening to him.
And no I am not scared of rhetoric. I just dont want a bunch of wackos out in my front yard confronting my wife and family because they know I dont support their views of ILLEGAL immigrants, transgender women running in events against naturally born females, and a myriad of other beliefs that I am against.
Iâm with you on the New York Gov, if he did something wrong, fabricated etc take him to court. I havenât been closely following but what I think I know is he suggested, allowed or ordered (take your pick) that when COVID patients were ready to be released they be released to nursing homes, right? Then this decision caused the alleged fabrication, lying, threatening etc.
My question, where else were they to be released to?
@Floridarob posted:FLPackfan. all media outlets fabricate stuff and not just Carlson and Hannity. We watched as the Cuomo brothers did their nightly comedy routine during the pandemic and made us all believe that things were being handled well in New York. I have to say I was impressed with Cuomo handling of the Pandemic at the time and thought Trump should take a lesson from him. And the damn left gave him some award for how he handled it. Now the muderer is under investigation for the way he handled it. And now his younger brother goes silent in response. Screw them all.
I agree, living in NYS I saw it the same way. Initially Cuomo did a great job, but then his "kyriptonite".... his ego took over. Comparing us to other states, writing a book, etc. ... I do think that some of what he did early falls under "the ends justify the means" since what I see in my area is that COVID "sensibility" seems to run across party lines and is much better than in many states, but yes, his brother & Don Lemon are unwatchable with their arrogance, but they still come nowhere near the "false statement ratio" that their Fox counterparts spew.
You should wish for a new America with a new fully representative government in the form of parliamentary democracy. Two parties allows for garbage like Rush and Trump or the Clintons to take control. You don't toe the line, you're out. Parliamentary process and ranked voting strips these pukes of immense power. Media also becomes beholden because they don't get to pitch just one of two party lines. People are fed up, they can form their own representative party and chose to form alliances with who they wish. When you win, you control government. There are no bullshit checks and balances put in place to protect slave owning traitors. Your government loses support, your government dissolved and a new government is formed.
The green new deal has nothing to do with the current deal in Texas.
i would not have a problem with a new government set up. The problem now is the polarizing extremes of the existing parties. There is no middle ground. It is sick to see the McConnels, Pelosis, Bidens, Schumers, and others getting rich just because they can get a segment of their parties to lean and vote a certain way. They represent themselves and their greed not the majority of the people. It will not change in my or even my grand kids life time....
By the way, Bob Dole looks to be in a bad way. I disagreed with just about all of what he proposed over the years. But he as far I know he was a fine man, veteran of a real war, well liked by all he worked with and a tough but fair political opponent.
He earned my respect and I hope all goes well for him.
@DurangoDoug posted:May he rest in peace. He was influential. His time is gone now. Who will be next? Time waits for no one. And it wont wait for you. So, all you sanctimonious, righteous bystanders claiming some sort of victory here are sadly the sort of losers we need to curtail. The man died, he deserves a modicum of respect for his accomplishments. JMHO You will meet your maker soon enough..
He deserves the same respect he paid to people who opposed him. NONE!
Coumo deserves all the shit he is getting right now.
Doesn't mean he's cancelled, but accountable.
@Pikes Peak posted:The green new deal has nothing to do with the current deal in Texas.
Correct. It's a laughable draw-dropping level lie being pushed by the TX GOP members who are paid by big oil. How difficult is it to see that the GND and no part of it has ever been passed anywhere and that the TX power grid is pretty much sovereign from the rest of the country? And has been managed by overwhelmingly republican representatives for the last several decades?
And by the way, the turbines in AK and even the Antarctic don't freeze up. They winterized their assets, TX did not. If you think this will be the last climate disruption caused by the polar vortex getting interrupted and sinking south due to rising temperatures in the arctic, I have some waterfront property to sell you in Miami.
I have family in Tx, they are repeating it because they believe the man they voted for. GND is hosing them, wind towers is why they don't have electrify.
Big lies should have big consequences
Like impeachment?
@DurangoDoug posted:Henry has more hate from within than any person I've ever known. What a clueless bastard. Attacking me for military service? Of course he was too chicken to ever serve, loser.
I really want to thank you for your service, but I don't like that you are weaponizing it. It cheapens it. However, you earned it so I can't tell you what to do with it.
@Blair Kiel posted:Full transparency.
When Rush came onto the scene, I was a traveling salesman who spent his days in the carâ-he was âmust listenâ for right of center political discussions. On one of our first dates, I took Mrs. Kiel to the old Milwaukee Auditorium to see him on his âRush to Excellenceâ Tour...Mrs. Kiel called him âRush Lumpheadâ
He was non pc before pc became a thing, hence the somewhat out of context comments by him youâve read. That said, as the years went on, he did become increasingly partisan, more nasty and less funny (like Glen Beck) and reveled in helping many non free thinkers hit the hate button.
I moved on from him by 2000 or so, so I canât even comment on what his schtick had been the past 20 years, other than the occasional outrageous shit that he pulled off with regularity.
That said, he has probably been one of the top 10 influencers in politics over the past 30 years. He was quite a brand. Much like other unnamed (alleged) Republicans, somehow he attained a cult of personality, which is never a good thing, is it? (Unless itâs being an Elizabeth Hurley fan)
I used to listen to him religiously. I liked 90% of what he said. The 10% was so extreme though I felt he no longer represented me. I last listened some 20 years ago.
I think he was the No.1 influencer in our politics today. Because of him political discourse is nastier than at any time in the 20th century.
@Goalline posted:Florida Rob, conservative people support this? In that case I renounce my conservatism. You know it is not true, right? Lots of conservative folks denounced this piece of shit for what he did to our country. Because of people like him we have never been more divided.
I honestly believe that the majority of conservatives do not support what Rush said over the years. He did not represent many of the points of views that conservatives that I know believe in (Including myself). He was a blow hard that has given all conservatives a bad name even though we don't agree with him.
@Floridarob posted:FLPackfan. all media outlets fabricate stuff and not just Carlson and Hannity. We watched as the Cuomo brothers did their nightly comedy routine during the pandemic and made us all believe that things were being handled well in New York. I have to say I was impressed with Cuomo handling of the Pandemic at the time and thought Trump should take a lesson from him. And the damn left gave him some award for how he handled it. Now the muderer is under investigation for the way he handled it. And now his younger brother goes silent in response. Screw them all.
And you watch. Cuomo will pay for his lies when he is up for reelection. He is getting attacked by members of his own party for his disgusting behavior.
Meanwhile, Republicans keep rewarding politicians for their lies. That is exactly what FLAPackfan is referring to.
@The Heckler posted:I honestly believe that the majority of conservatives do not support what Rush said over the years. He did not represent many of the points of views that conservatives that I know believe in (Including myself). He was a blow hard that has given all conservatives a bad name even though we don't agree with him.
20 million listeners is a really small sampling of conservative listeners. I completely agree with you.
@Pikes Peak posted:By the way, Bob Dole looks to be in a bad way. I disagreed with just about all of what he proposed over the years. But he as far I know he was a fine man, veteran of a real war, well liked by all he worked with and a tough but fair political opponent.
He earned my respect and I hope all goes well for him.
Bob Dole is a great American.
This is actually a good thread not getting out of control.
Kudos!
No doubt RL definitely coarsened the political discourse in this country. Weaponized it.
I still think there's 70-80% of the country is closer to each other than they are to the 20-30% on the edges from both sides.
Unfortunately the DMZ line is spitting the 70-80% down the middle.
@Pikes Peak posted:Iâm with you on the New York Gov, if he did something wrong, fabricated etc take him to court. I havenât been closely following but what I think I know is he suggested, allowed or ordered (take your pick) that when COVID patients were ready to be released they be released to nursing homes, right? Then this decision caused the alleged fabrication, lying, threatening etc.
My question, where else were they to be released to?
Cuomo screwed up on this. The buck stops with him, but many jurisdictions are under heavy pressure to get hospital patients back to nursing homes because of how health care and elder care is financed in this country.
Many nursing homes barely break even taking care of relatively healthy residents in their facilities. They get paid something like triple the amount of the daily rate for taking care of more acutely ill patients. The justification is that it still saves health care costs for Medicare relative to being an inpatient in a hospital. The problem is that the nursing homes are dependent on those extra dollars to stay solvent (if they are non-profits) or to make money (if they are for-profit). They were pushing to get their revenue streams back online and to have those patients released back to their care.
The nursing homes were hemorrhaging money from the extra costs associated with the pandemic, the hospitals were overrun and needed the beds, and the federal government wasn't very good at providing guidelines on how to handle what was an unprecedented situation. All the incentives were aligned to discharge these patients back to the nursing homes.
Cuomo screwed up in the beginning by going with that approach (although it was probably the approach anyone was going to choose amongst a bunch of bad options). If he'd have just said they screwed up and explained why, he'd have been much better off. It's the coverup that's worse.
@Floridarob posted:i would not have a problem with a new government set up. The problem now is the polarizing extremes of the existing parties. There is no middle ground. It is sick to see the McConnels, Pelosis, Bidens, Schumers, and others getting rich just because they can get a segment of their parties to lean and vote a certain way. They represent themselves and their greed not the majority of the people. It will not change in my or even my grand kids life time....
That's why it needs to die. That's why people need to quit listening to fucks like Limbaugh who will defend a busted ass 18th century government. It wasn't set up to represent a modern society. The same goes for the Neera Tandens who prop up the neo-liberal turds on the supposed left who like to parcel out programs instead of solutions.
@Goalline posted:And you watch. Cuomo will pay for his lies when he is up for reelection. He is getting attacked by members of his own party for his disgusting behavior.
Meanwhile, Republicans keep rewarding politicians for their lies. That is exactly what FLAPackfan is referring to.
Goaline, they all lie and they are all hypocties. Pelosi, Schumer, Lyndsey Graham, McConell, AOC, the wacko Omar from Minnesota, Cuomo, Newsome, Chicago Mayor, and the list goes on. They are all scandalous. This is not limited to the Republican Party. Republicans just lost the presidency and the senate. I dont see how they got rewared.
@DurangoDoug posted:Henry has more hate from within than any person I've ever known. What a clueless bastard. Attacking me for military service? Of course he was too chicken to ever serve, loser.
Except you don't know Henry. None of us do. I think Kiel is the only one to have the pleasure of getting to know Henry.
Is pleasure the right adjective?
It's easy to make fun of Rush Limbaugh right now, but it's important to remember that he also brought a lot of people a lot of joy by dying
â Mike Drucker (@MikeDrucker) February 17, 2021
@H5 posted:Except you don't know Henry. None of us do. I think Kiel is the only one to have the pleasure of getting to know Henry.
Is pleasure the right adjective?
Kiel deserves an extra crown when he gets to Heaven...
You have no idea what Kiel deserves. That is reserved for Mrs Kiel.
@H5 posted:You have no idea what Kiel deserves. That is reserved for Mrs Kiel.
He took her to a RL lecture.....enough said.
@H5 posted:You have no idea what Kiel deserves. That is reserved for Mrs Kiel.
she deserves the whole jewelry section and ownership of the manufacturer who makes the crowns....
@Floridarob posted:Goaline, they all lie and they are all hypocties. Pelosi, Schumer, Lyndsey Graham, McConell, AOC, the wacko Omar from Minnesota, Cuomo, Newsome, Chicago Mayor, and the list goes on. They are all scandalous. This is not limited to the Republican Party. Republicans just lost the presidency and the senate. I dont see how they got rewared.
That's a cheap out. You throw out a bunch of names you don't like and pepper in a couple of Republicans as some catch all.
There are people in office actually working for betterment but people shirk their duty as voters.
Me, I actually loathe Clintonites.
For the record, I also stopped listening to or caring about Limbaugh roughly 20 years ago. So in no way was I a fan or supporter of him since. But he was very influential to a large section of the population and should be recognized as such. Personally I lean towards the moderate side on most issues. If on a scale of 1-10, with 1 being extreme liberal and 10 being extreme conservative I'm around a 6 on that scale.
@Henry posted:That's a cheap out. You throw out a bunch of names you don't like and pepper in a couple of Republicans as some catch all.
There are people in office actually working for betterment but people shirk their duty as voters.
Me, I actually loathe Clintonites.
lol, No, I threw out the names that are mostly known by democrats and republicans. I am sure there are others. I actually can't think of any democrats or Republican congress people I like. They are all a bunch of crooks looking to line their own pockets. Is that inclusive enough?
@H5 posted:Except you don't know Henry. None of us do. I think Kiel is the only one to have the pleasure of getting to know Henry.
Is pleasure the right adjective?
Henry and me knowing each other (dinner 5-6 times I'd guess) is precisely why we shouldn't ever assume we really know someone from on line communication. Hard to believe, but in person, I'm the asshole and he's a prince.
@Floridarob posted:Goaline, they all lie and they are all hypocties. Pelosi, Schumer, Lyndsey Graham, McConell, AOC, the wacko Omar from Minnesota, Cuomo, Newsome, Chicago Mayor, and the list goes on. They are all scandalous. This is not limited to the Republican Party. Republicans just lost the presidency and the senate. I dont see how they got rewared.
No doubt! No disagreement there. Politicians disgust me.
@Floridarob posted:well lets just say we dont see his life the same way. Rage all you want. I doubt you spent five minutes ever listening to him.
And no I am not scared of rhetoric. I just dont want a bunch of wackos out in my front yard confronting my wife and family because they know I dont support their views of ILLEGAL immigrants, transgender women running in events against naturally born females, and a myriad of other beliefs that I am against.
Yeah, pretty sure nobody is coming to your house.
I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.
@EC Pack posted:This is actually a good thread not getting out of control.
Kudos!
No doubt RL definitely coarsened the political discourse in this country. Weaponized it.
I still think there's 70-80% of the country is closer to each other than they are to the 20-30% on the edges from both sides.
Unfortunately the DMZ line is spitting the 70-80% down the middle.
A clear majority of the country supports some form of gun control (even 49% of Republicans) without wanting to ban guns. McConnell has blocked even a debate in the Senate on anything related to guns.
Large majorities of the country want common-sense immigration reform. A bipartisan plan that passed the senate with 68 votes was negotiated in 2013. Rubio and Lindsay Graham were two of the 8 that developed this plan. Boehner blocked it from being voted on in the House.
A majority of the country supports raising the minimum wage. Even some congressional Republicans support it. Part of the problem with the discussion is the far left wing is set on $15/hour or nothing. Why not try to get bipartisan support to get to $11 or $12/hour?
I don't think anybody thinks health care works efficiently in the United States.
The underlying problem with doing anything is twofold. First, the media polarization and demonization of opponents that Limbaugh pioneered and Roger Ailes perfected. Second, the Citizen's United decision that ruled McCain-Feingold unconstitutional.
As soon as anyone tries to do anything that would involve compromising with the opposition so that you get something you want in exchange for something they want, the dark money floods in and whips up a frenzy driven in large part by partisan media (who are often heaving supported by unregulated super-PAC ads in a self-reinforcing positive feedback loop). Republicans trying to compromise are labeled RINOs and Democrats trying to do so are labeled corporate sellouts.
It results in bright, talented people eventually taking positions that don't make any sense. Rubio and Graham at one point were lead architects of a bill that would have at least tried to fix some aspects of immigration. It wasn't perfect but it was a clear attempt to address an obvious problem. That's what functional governments should do. Now, they have both morphed into positions that are unrecognizable within the span of a few years. Obama based health care reform on a program that Romney pioneered as governor of Massachusetts. Rather than to take what should have been a conceptual win for Republicans at some level, they cranked up the outrage meter and had people convinced Obama wanted to kill people off with death panels. Then, in one of the most ironic presidential campaigns in history, Romney had to run a presidential campaign while disavowing his signature policy accomplishment as a governor.
I read an interesting article a couple of years ago that argued that the push for more government transparency, while mostly beneficial to try to expose corruption and influence, is counterproductive in getting meaningful legislation with compromises passed. That's because while negotiations are going on out in the open, both sides get hammered to hold their position and not compromise (instead of, for example, just coming out with a bill for a 12/hour minimum wage without getting people completely dug in before discussions at 15/hour or no increase and regarding anything else as a loss).
@Henry posted:Yeah, pretty sure nobody is coming to your house.
Probably not, But the thugs that assault people now are just as happy to do it in front of police officers, at restaurants, on camera, in parks, and with the world watching. I am not planning on giving anyone a misguided reason because of whatever cause they have attached themselves to at that moment.
@Blair Kiel posted:Henry and me knowing each other (dinner 5-6 times I'd guess) is precisely why we shouldn't ever assume we really know someone from on line communication. Hard to believe, but in person, I'm the asshole and he's a prince.
Don't let Kiel fool you. He really is an asshole.
Honestly, Kiel and I aren't from unidentifiable worlds but we do reside in different strata. I think what I enjoy about Kiel is there is a true sense of open engagement. Maybe it's the sales guy that makes Kiel accessible but I always thought it was being a genuine, reasonable individual instead.
In the end, it's always about humor. As much as I rage I'll take a joke to end the conversation every time.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:I read an interesting article a couple of years ago that argued that the push for more government transparency, while mostly beneficial to try to expose corruption and influence, is counterproductive in getting meaningful legislation with compromises passed. That's because while negotiations are going on out in the open, both sides get hammered to hold their position and not compromise (instead of, for example, just coming out with a bill for a 12/hour minimum wage without getting people completely dug in before discussions at 15/hour or no increase and regarding anything else as a loss).
Laws and sausages.
@Floridarob posted:Probably not, But the thugs that assault people now are just as happy to do it in front of police officers, at restaurants, on camera, in parks, and with the world watching. I am not planning on giving anyone a misguided reason because of whatever cause they have attached themselves to at that moment.
It's almost like we should address the root of extremism.
Neither side wants to be known as working with the other. Votes in the senate and house now are straight up partisan. If they do work with the other side, they are liable to be censurred, voted out, or slandered in the news....Maybe making the major legislation votes anonymous would get things done.
Not the worst idea. Everyone can claim they voted for it if the legislation is good.
Just like there were 600,000 people at the Ice Bowl. 
@EC Pack posted:Not the worst idea. Everyone can claim they voted for it if the legislation is good.
Just like there were 600,000 people at the Ice Bowl.
The two tickets that my extended family has (at least partially) had for 60 years were being used for the Ice Bowl by one of my father's cousins. He and his buddy left at halftime and went to a bar down the street from Lambeau Field because he said it was just too fuc1ing cold to sit outside.
@Blair Kiel posted:Hard to believe, but in person, I'm the asshole and he's a prince.
You were a keeper, makes sense.
@Floridarob posted:Neither side wants to be known as working with the other. Votes in the senate and house now are straight up partisan. If they do work with the other side, they are liable to be censurred, voted out, or slandered in the news....Maybe making the major legislation votes anonymous would get things done.
I think they should have to own their vote, but I agree, partisanship doesnât happen anymore.
also I donât believe in term limits, but there is a shit ton that should be voted out
(also morE oversight. Our last president shined a spotlight on how you can use public service for personal gain.)
Most folks love term limits for your reps.
I donât have a problem with it either, but we the people can make term limits and we donât
What is the argument against term limits? I would think they would tend to encourage "public service" rather than making a career out of it.
Because when you have good ones....
Never mind, I invalidated my own argument
My last 2 Reps......Michelle Bachman and Doug Lamborn.
Believe me, Iâm for it.
@FLPACKER posted:What is the argument against term limits? I would think they would tend to encourage "public service" rather than making a career out of it.
I've done some advocating for medical research funding at both the state and federal levels, so I've had some first-hand experience with this.
The Michigan house has 6-year term limits. People on the Republican side often get there by bashing government and working to cut spending and taxes. People on the Democratic side often get there by making unrealistic campaign promises. They have no idea how the legislative process works when they get there because campaigns, even locally, tend to be won with style over substance and people don't value competence as much as "fire" and looking for someone "who will fight for them." The new people get there and have no idea of things really work and spend most of their first two years trying to figure it out. They then start running again within 15 months for the next cycle which takes up a lot of their time. If they get to their 3rd term, they start looking for their next job which often ends up being with some group they can help out policy wise during their last term. The result of this is that the people that get elected are the least suited for the boring work of actually legislating (which at its best requires compromise and a lot of boring grunt work) and they have to rely on someone else to learn the ropes. By the time they figure it out, they are term limited. Most often who they rely on to actually do the work are the people who cycle between working in congressional offices and lobbying. Guess who ends up being the main people writing the laws and shaping them? The lobbyists/staff members who often spend decades there. In the end, term limits give these lobbyists even more power.
At the federal level, a story that captures the problems in this country is the following: I became friends with a prominent local Republican county commissioner who also was a lobbyist to get federal grant money for economic development programs in West MIchigan. During the late 1990s he spent a lot of time in DC interacting with the two Michigan senators who at that time were Spence Abraham (R) and Carl Levin (D). I asked him what they were like. He told me that Abraham didn't seem that interested in actually being a Senator and wasn't a great person to talk to about their needs. Abraham eventually being Energy Secretary and now is a wealthy man due to lobbying for nuclear energy interests. Being a Senator was a way to leverage connections to eventually become wealthy. On the other hand, he said that Carl Levin was one of the most effective and genuine politicians he ever talked to. Levin told him that he knew that he was a Republican and probably didn't vote for him, but that it was his job to represent the interests of his constituents and he'd go out of his way to meet with him and told him he'd help him out in any manner he could.
So, at the end of the conversation, I asked my colleague, "would you ever consider voting for Levin." He said he could never do that, because he considered it voting for someone on the other team. He was a Lions fan and I'm paraphrasing his analogy which was that he could respect Brett Favre (this was the late 1990s), but he would never want him to win because that wouldn't help the Lions.
@DurangoDoug posted:For the record, I also stopped listening to or caring about Limbaugh roughly 20 years ago. So in no way was I a fan or supporter of him since. But he was very influential to a large section of the population and should be recognized as such.
So a bad influence should be honored? And since you have not listened to him for 20 years you really don't know the bullshit he kept spewing. But still, honor him. 