The Heckler posted:
MichiganPacker2 posted:
DH13 posted:

Is Kuechly really worth anything near that anymore?  I haven't watched much of him this year but I don't recall him really standing out vs GB.

He's missed a lot of games over the years due to several concussions. He's great, but he's in Sam Shields territory if not beyond it. 

That is something to keep in mind.  He has had numerous concussions and I need to check but I think he has missed quite a bit of time because of it.  

Pakrz posted:

Jesus, some of you have gone full retard on Martinez.  

Pakrz,  LOL isn't that the truth.  I still say Martinez isn't the problem the problem is that the Packers don't currently have another ILB to team up with him.   I would expect that Gute will have the need for another ILB high on his to do list this off season.

On pass downs the packers play a S along side Martinez.

The problem isn't the guy next to him. The problem is he isn't particularly fast. He doesn't feel pass lanes. He isn't tall or long to disrupt more space in the pass game. And he doesn't turn and run with anyone, even 3rd string TEs.

He's a smart guy. He can call the plays. He can make some tackles but he's a JAG at best and he plays a position that should be very impactful.

 

I guess leading the league in tackles isn't impactful. 

The Packers were very very close to completely destroying the Redskins yesterday. A couple calls from the refs & a couple missed deep throws were the difference in a 20-15 game vs. a 45-9 beatdown.

They're working hard & improving each week. Hopeful they have it all put together come playoff time. This defense is damn good when they need to be. That's what is most important to winning. 

They're also winning.

Worst 10-3 team in the 💯 year history of the NFL

I guess I don't see the "improving every week".  They looked better in some games earlier in the year, worse in others.  It also looks like a longshot that they might "put it all together" at some point in the next several weeks.  They have been up and down, sloppy penalties, running the play clock to zero, etc all season so I think you just have to expect that.

Clark looked better yesterday so it should be no surprise that Martinez did also.

This team reminds me a lot of the 2010 team except some of those close games they are winning this year unlike 2010. They don't have to run the table the last couple of weeks to get in.

For whatever reason, they just couldn't string together wins in 2010 other than a 4 game stretch in Oct-Nov. They lost a couple of heartbreaking OT games that I feel this team would probably win. And then right around Christmas that team really found their footing when Rodgers returned from a concussion and never lost another game. 

Not saying that's going to happen this year but that kind of shit happens just about every year in the NFL. A team looks like they are not going to make a deep run or not even make the playoffs and then they put it all together at the right time. Why not us? Don't give me the "we need a WR / we need a ILB" crap. All teams have missing pieces.  Imperfect teams win the SB all the time. 

Oh boy.  The big difference for that 2010 team was their D.  They never trailed in any game by more than 6 pts?  When you have a D like that, it keeps you in games and it gives your offense more opportunities to produce and to win.  The offense in 2010 sputtered after losing YOTO early on so I guess you can hang your hat on similarities there but that's about as far as it goes.  They also had more talent around AR.  That team wasn't just "getting hot", it was a roster on offense that was coming to fruition in late 2010 and peaked in 2011.  This current offense incarnation is not that.  Still some players away.

I'm not saying 2019 = 2010. I'm saying you see this team has a lot of potential but for whatever reason(s) they are stumbling around it. Yes, 2010 had a better defense and better WR's and AR just entering his prime. 

But in 2010 there was NO running game. Then out of nowhere we had James Starks. In the blink of an eye we had something going at RB. Maybe someone on the roster that's doing next to nothing today pulls a James Starks and a weak spot becomes at least competent. Maybe the offense stops sputtering in random spots like it did in 2010 and in 2019.  Maybe we start seeing punt returns giving the offense an extra 10 or 15 yards of field position, you know like yesterday. Maybe the defense starts forcing more 3 and outs and puts more consistent pressure on the QB. That can take an above average team and really change the optics and expectations.

Again, I'm not saying this is going to happen. But it happens. All. The. Time. 

Boris posted:

I guess leading the league in tackles isn't impactful. 

The Packers were very very close to completely destroying the Redskins yesterday. A couple calls from the refs & a couple missed deep throws were the difference in a 20-15 game vs. a 45-9 beatdown.

They're working hard & improving each week. Hopeful they have it all put together come playoff time. This defense is damn good when they need to be. That's what is most important to winning. 

They're also winning.

Worst 10-3 team in the 💯 year history of the NFL

Leading the league in tackles is not impactful. It only means Martinez never comes off the field and that in GBs defense his spot is designed to make the tackles and GBs defense is on the field alot. 

But where are the TFLs, Ints, Forced Fumbles or even recoveries? Where are the passes defensed?  Yeah, Martinez makes tackles, so did AJ Hawk, but neither of them are playmakers and neither can cover in a passing league.

If you want a good defense you have to have your ILB cover and Martinez can't.

It would be effing great to have Brian Urlacher there. That just isn't going to happen this season. 

Is he great? Not a chance but he's a guy you can win with. 

Martinez isn't as bad as you're making him out to be. He'll probably be a great coach after he retires. 

You want perfection & dynamic play making -- well I have news for you. Every team. Yes even the Niners & Ravens, have weak spots & can be beat. Every. Team.

ammo posted:

Kiel slipping again. No Monday Night thread. What the hell???? 

Time zone and retirement! Back in the day, on the road for work had nothing better to do at dinner than figure out a pithy game thread title and sit in my ass at a Holiday Inn Express watching football...now these 6:20 Mountain starts don’t even let me finish dinner....first world problem. 

AtTheMurph posted:
Boris posted:

I guess leading the league in tackles isn't impactful. 

The Packers were very very close to completely destroying the Redskins yesterday. A couple calls from the refs & a couple missed deep throws were the difference in a 20-15 game vs. a 45-9 beatdown.

They're working hard & improving each week. Hopeful they have it all put together come playoff time. This defense is damn good when they need to be. That's what is most important to winning. 

They're also winning.

Worst 10-3 team in the 💯 year history of the NFL

Leading the league in tackles is not impactful. It only means Martinez never comes off the field and that in GBs defense his spot is designed to make the tackles and GBs defense is on the field alot. 

But where are the TFLs, Ints, Forced Fumbles or even recoveries? Where are the passes defensed?  Yeah, Martinez makes tackles, so did AJ Hawk, but neither of them are playmakers and neither can cover in a passing league.

If you want a good defense you have to have your ILB cover and Martinez can't.

Stats are cool.  I like stats.  Have you looked at them by any chance and compared Blake Martinez to the rest of the MLBs in the NFL?  

Jordan Hicks, Luke Kuechly, Cory Littleton, Joe Schobert and Tremaine Edmunds are giving you the pass coverage stats you're looking for.  That's 5 dudes. 

Forced fumbles from MLB's? Martinez has 1 along with Bobby Wagner.  Several have 2, including Jordan Hicks, Jaylon Smith, Cory Littleton and Joe Schobert.  Fred Warner has 3. Luke Kuechly has 0, as does Tremaine Edmunds and Roquan Smith.

Interceptions? Martinez has zero... and is unfortunately tied with Bobby Wagner, Jaylon Smith, Eric Kendricks and Fred Warner.  

Sacks? Martinez, R. Smith and Wagner have 2 (Martinez should have 3 but one was called back).  J. Smith and Littleton have 2.5.  Warner has 3. Kuechly has 0.  Schobert leads the way with 4. 

Tackles? Martinez is 2nd in the NFL with 128, but who gives a fuck... AJ Hawk and all. 

You guys calling out Martinez like he's the worst MLB to ever play the game are fucking laughable.  At absolute worst, Blake Martinez is a top 10 MLB in the NFL.  

But Pakrz, I don't care about stats... I have my eyes.  Your eyes suck. 

Again, nobody is saying that Blake Martinez is the second coming of Ray Lewis, but for fuck sakes, take a look around the league a bit.  Dude is one of the best MLB's playing....

BLARK!!!!

Blair Kiel posted:
ammo posted:

Kiel slipping again. No Monday Night thread. What the hell???? 

Time zone and retirement! Back in the day, on the road for work had nothing better to do at dinner than figure out a pithy game thread title and sit in my ass at a Holiday Inn Express watching football...now these 6:20 Mountain starts don’t even let me finish dinner....first world problem. 

You got all goddamn afternoon to figure out a pithy thread title.  You better not slip up next week, or I'll sic Henry on you.  Woof  Woof. 

Blair Kiel posted:

Time zone and retirement! Back in the day, on the road for work had nothing better to do at dinner than figure out a pithy game thread title and sit in my ass at a Holiday Inn Express watching football...now these 6:20 Mountain starts don’t even let me finish dinner....first world problem. 

LMAO, I stopped working 17 yrs ago and had plans to do a ton of different things, but along the way I discovered I really liked doing nothing the best!

Blair Kiel posted:
ammo posted:

Kiel slipping again. No Monday Night thread. What the hell???? 

Time zone and retirement! Back in the day, on the road for work had nothing better to do at dinner than figure out a pithy game thread title and sit in my ass at a Holiday Inn Express watching football...now these 6:20 Mountain starts don’t even let me finish dinner....first world problem. 

Now that you're retired you don't eat at Old People Time® like 4:00 PM?

AtTheMurph posted:

Yeah, Martinez makes tackles, so did AJ Hawk, but neither of them are playmakers and neither can cover in a passing league.

If you want a good defense you have to have your ILB cover and Martinez can't.

Had to drive for work yesterday, so listened in on the voice of the Queens Paul Allen's show on KFAN.

He has a recurring Monday morning segment with a guy who hosts a show called Packers Preview on that station (love that the Queens' radio home has a Packers show).

Anyway, after discussing the Packers-Redskins contest, Allen who never expresses an independent thought ever about the Queens and just spews what the organization spoon feeds him asked a seemingly throwaway question about the upcoming contest in Minneapolis a week from Sunday: 

"Blake Martinez, is his pass coverage still as bad as any linebacker in the NFL?"

To which the Packer Preview guy responded: "Yeah, it's not good. It's why Green Bay will part ways with him." 

https://www.iheart.com/podcast...an-fm-1003-26980875/

At the 72:00 minute mark.

SteveLuke posted:
AtTheMurph posted:

Yeah, Martinez makes tackles, so did AJ Hawk, but neither of them are playmakers and neither can cover in a passing league.

If you want a good defense you have to have your ILB cover and Martinez can't.

Had to drive for work yesterday, so listened in on the voice of the Queens Paul Allen's show on KFAN.

He has a recurring Monday morning segment with a guy who hosts a show called Packers Preview on that station (love that the Queens' radio home has a Packers show).

Anyway, after discussing the Packers-Redskins contest, Allen who never expresses an independent thought ever about the Queens and just spews what the organization spoon feeds him asked a seemingly throwaway question about the upcoming contest in Minneapolis a week from Sunday: 

"Blake Martinez, is his pass coverage still as bad as any linebacker in the NFL?"

To which the Packer Preview guy responded: "Yeah, it's not good. It's why Green Bay will part ways with him." 

https://www.iheart.com/podcast...an-fm-1003-26980875/

At the 72:00 minute mark.

Yes, always enjoy when Dave Sinykin can get some extra time on KFAN. As much as he supports the Green and Gold, he always tells it like it is, usually spot on. Paul Allen rarely misses an opportunity to take a shot at the Packers. 

Ubetcha posted:
SteveLuke posted:
AtTheMurph posted:

Yeah, Martinez makes tackles, so did AJ Hawk, but neither of them are playmakers and neither can cover in a passing league.

If you want a good defense you have to have your ILB cover and Martinez can't.

Had to drive for work yesterday, so listened in on the voice of the Queens Paul Allen's show on KFAN.

He has a recurring Monday morning segment with a guy who hosts a show called Packers Preview on that station (love that the Queens' radio home has a Packers show).

Anyway, after discussing the Packers-Redskins contest, Allen who never expresses an independent thought ever about the Queens and just spews what the organization spoon feeds him asked a seemingly throwaway question about the upcoming contest in Minneapolis a week from Sunday: 

"Blake Martinez, is his pass coverage still as bad as any linebacker in the NFL?"

To which the Packer Preview guy responded: "Yeah, it's not good. It's why Green Bay will part ways with him." 

https://www.iheart.com/podcast...an-fm-1003-26980875/

At the 72:00 minute mark.

Yes, always enjoy when Dave Sinykin can get some extra time on KFAN. As much as he supports the Green and Gold, he always tells it like it is, usually spot on. Paul Allen rarely misses an opportunity to take a shot at the Packers. 

Paul Allen. Purple doofus to the max. Who cares what he thinks as he has never seen an NFL Championship in the State of Purple and most likely, never will.

Ubetcha posted:
SteveLuke posted:
AtTheMurph posted:

Yeah, Martinez makes tackles, so did AJ Hawk, but neither of them are playmakers and neither can cover in a passing league.

If you want a good defense you have to have your ILB cover and Martinez can't.

Had to drive for work yesterday, so listened in on the voice of the Queens Paul Allen's show on KFAN.

He has a recurring Monday morning segment with a guy who hosts a show called Packers Preview on that station (love that the Queens' radio home has a Packers show).

Anyway, after discussing the Packers-Redskins contest, Allen who never expresses an independent thought ever about the Queens and just spews what the organization spoon feeds him asked a seemingly throwaway question about the upcoming contest in Minneapolis a week from Sunday: 

"Blake Martinez, is his pass coverage still as bad as any linebacker in the NFL?"

To which the Packer Preview guy responded: "Yeah, it's not good. It's why Green Bay will part ways with him." 

https://www.iheart.com/podcast...an-fm-1003-26980875/

At the 72:00 minute mark.

Yes, always enjoy when Dave Sinykin can get some extra time on KFAN. As much as he supports the Green and Gold, he always tells it like it is, usually spot on. Paul Allen rarely misses an opportunity to take a shot at the Packers. 

Nor does  Davey miss many opportunities to needle the Purple.

Packers have 'got a defense,' but it's hard to figure

With three games to play, they rank lower in several statistical categories than they did last season. Among them are yards allowed per game (22nd this year vs. 18th in 2018), yards allowed per play (26th vs. 14th), yards allowed per rush (27th vs. 13th), passing yards allowed (21st vs. 12th) and third-down percentage (18th vs. 13th).

Part of the problem assessing Blake Martinez is there’s really no one even average playing alongside him at ILB and a hybrid safety wont cut it.  

The real challenge is they have big bucks tied up in the 2 OLBs and Amos and Kenny Clark is due a big pay increase so there’s only so much money to go around.   Extending Martinez for top 10 LB pay wouldn’t be a prudent decision. 

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