Grave Digger posted:
Pistol GB posted:

Grave Digger:

You left out Kumerow.

I am not convinced he's a lock. I could see him being unseated by this Teo Redding or even this speedster Jawill Davis. J'Mon Moore could be in the mix also, but this offense seems to covet speed and Moore is not a burner. I think the low guys on the depth chart will need to have a niche...like Trevor Davis' return ability and speed. Kumerow is a well rounded player, but he's not great at anything. Moore has some intriguing qualities, but we've seen nothing that makes him special. 

As for Nijman, it's hard to say right now what would happen if he was sent to the PS. He's a guy I could see making it to the final cut down because of that athleticism, but there's a reason he was a UDFA and it's beyond just injury. He could be a guy that gets stashed, but the way practice is structured now (less full contact, more indy) you don't really find out what you have in OTs until the preseason. 

But Rodgers likes Kumerow. He recently praised his football IQ and his ability to run the correct routes. I think Kumerow makes this team.

Actually, I do think he is a lock, MichiganJoe. Quality WR. Rodgers digs having him around. That speaks volumes. I do believe he has upside. Fast, decent size, good route runner, and he can catch. Think he would excel opposite Adams with MVS in slot. Just my 2 cents.

I really wonder if Moore makes it? Another system for him to learn, and that was his primary struggle last year as a rookie, along with catching the ball. WR battles for positions on the 53 will be fierce.

You know how Rodgers likes his fav outlets...

Yes those comments were nice to hear but in essence it was that JK had some good skills with toe tapping in the end zone. He said that it looked natural. I think JK has some skills. He can fill the bottom to the middle of the roster in a pinch. Perhaps AR was making the point that the other receivers might want to work on that skill and he always praises good route running. Rodgers messages often seem cryptic with more than one meaning. 

Trophies posted:

 

 TE 4

Jimmy Graham

Mercedes Lewis

Jace Sternberger

Robert Tonyan

 

WR 5

Davante Adams

MVS

Geronimo Allison

ESB

Jake Kumerow

Agree with just about about everything but I think they keep J'mon Moore over Lewis.  Neither contributed much last season but I think they go with the upside.  And Lewis will be there in week 5 when they need an injury replacement.  I doubt Moore would make it through waivers (just based on draft position).   

CUPackFan posted:
Trophies posted:

 

 TE 4

Jimmy Graham

Mercedes Lewis

Jace Sternberger

Robert Tonyan

 

WR 5

Davante Adams

MVS

Geronimo Allison

ESB

Jake Kumerow

Agree with just about about everything but I think they keep J'mon Moore over Lewis.  Neither contributed much last season but I think they go with the upside.  And Lewis will be there in week 5 when they need an injury replacement.  I doubt Moore would make it through waivers (just based on draft position).   

Hey CU! My thinking is LaFleur is going to blow people away with how much he runs the ball this season. Lewis is the BEST run blocking TE in all of football. That is what has me thinking they keep him. Plus, he is a sold receiver. McPizzabox never gave the guy a chance.

I'm not sold on Moore, but, who knows? A bunch of people up there know way more than me. Just guessing as best I can based on the thousands of reels of tape I've watched....

This is one hell of a deep team. I do agree with a recent article saying we are thin behind Savage and Amos. Would love for Gutey to add a vet S to the mix. He & Pettine are probably just seeing what they have now. Berry would be great, as would Glover Quinn.

This roster is hardly "stacked." Aside from Packers fans, that's not a word most people would use when looking at a roster with Kizer as the No. 2 QB, Allison and MVS as the No. 2 and 3 wide receivers, Spriggs as the backup left tackle, Taylor and Turner as the starting guards, Burks as a starting ILB and Alexander as the only reliable corner. 

heyward posted:

This roster is hardly "stacked." Aside from Packers fans, that's not a word most people would use when looking at a roster with Kizer as the No. 2 QB, Allison and MVS as the No. 2 and 3 wide receivers, Spriggs as the backup left tackle, Taylor and Turner as the starting guards, Burks as a starting ILB and Alexander as the only reliable corner. 

Yeah forget that word. No one can claim 2-deep Pro Bowlers at every position.  If the injury bug hits, we're screwed like everyone else.

I'm fine with Allison and MVS at 2 and 3, and the WR group as a whole.  It's a good group.

Unreliable except for Alexander? I mean yeah, at some point you have to rely on your First Round draft picks.  We're looking at King, Jackson, Alexander and Williams.  That's 2 Firsts, a Second and a 13-year vet and former Pro Bowler.

 

Attachments

Love for Whitewater Jesus.

https://madison.com/wsj/sports...59-1520d903dd77.html

 

Excerpt:

If he can do that — and stay healthy — Kumerow knows he has as much chance as anyone to be complementing the Rodgers-to-Adams connection that figures to again be the lifeblood of the Packers’ passing game. While the Packers’ three-receiver set with the No. 1 offense most often included Adams, Allison and Valdes-Scantling, Kumerow was next up and got plenty of work with the starters, especially when Adams missed a few practices with a minor injury.

“I definitely feel more ready, having a few games under my belt, a few more balls thrown to me from A-Rod,” Kumerow said. “It feels good. I have more confidence going in — hopping in the huddle, going in at any moment of the practice. Whereas last year, I’d get a few reps here and there but now with more reps I just feel ready and confident to attack any play.

 

michiganjoe posted:

Piece by Tom Oates about what he sees as a problem area in the roster. Other than Matt Flynn backup QB has really been a perpetual problem and the so-called QB guru really failed to live up to his name.

Honestly, back up QB is the are of least concern I have on the squad.  I'm more worried about punter and long snapper, because if they are on the field in a close game it might still mater.  

michiganjoe posted:

Piece by Tom Oates about what he sees as a problem area in the roster. Other than Matt Flynn backup QB has really been a perpetual problem and the so-called QB guru really failed to live up to his name.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure backup QB is a trouble area for pretty much every team. The best backup QBs in 2018 were:

  1. Nick Foles
  2. Ryan Fitzpatrick (part time starter)
  3. Josh McCown
  4. Jacoby Brissett
  5. Teddy Bridgewater
  6. Tyrod Taylor
  7. Brian Hoyer
  8. Matt Schaub
  9. Colt McCoy
  10. Chase Daniel

That list debatable, but honestly outside of maybe those first 5 guys I'm not really sure if it matters if you have DeShone Kizer, Tim Boyle or Brian Hoyer. Franchise QBs get paid so much because they're so incredibly necessary for success. We all look at the 90's Packers as a QB factory churning out Favre, Brunell, Brooks, Hass, etc., but did Holmgren ever really develop another QB after leaving? It seems more likely that the "QB guru" label is undeserved for most coaches and it's more about the GM/FO finding the RIGHT QB for THAT system. Belichick isn't a "QB guru" and he is constantly shuffling coaching staff, but he and his FO know how to identify QBs that work for that offense. I think if anyone was expect MM to churn out QB prospects like the 90's you were expecting too much. MM got more out of Matt Flynn than other teams have, probably true for BH and Scott Tolzien as well, but the fact that I'm citing those 3 players as our best backups of the last decade is evidence that TT couldn't find a backup QB for shit. 

AR goes down for a relatively significant period and I agree- it really doesn't matter. Backup should really just be a player that can keep the team in contention for a short period of time until the starter returns. No evidence Boyle or Kizer are capable of that and other than Flynn not sure the Packers have a QB that was. 

Fair to blame TT but equal blame has to go to Pittsburgh Macho. I'm sure he was reassuring TT that Graham Harrell's extensive talent would emerge with just a bit more patience from the organization.

Sure, I don't think MM is blameless, but I think when people unfairly gave him the the "QB guru" label because he had developed Aaron Brooks once upon a time they expected we would see Brunell, Hass, etc. come through the system. Maybe he was satisfied with Graham Harrell? I don't think we saw a Mark Brunell come through the system because Holmy probably didn't make Brunell a franchise QB, he was a good QB who probably would have been successful regardless of where he went. 

Andy Reid is probably the top QB guy in the NFL, arguably, but who was his best true backup QB (meaning not Mahomes 1 season as backup) in his career, Michael Vick? Chase Daniel? It's so rare to hit on a true franchise QB as it is if you aren't picking in the top 10, it's so unlikely to find a backup QB that is competent enough to not lose games. Moral of the story: Kizer is unfortunately probably the best use of our money at backup QB right now. We could overpay for a former starter, but unless he's Nick Foles caliber then we're fukked either way. 

phaedrus posted:

I'd roll the dice on Boyle over Kizer.

Ditto. More upside. Kizer was barely a notch above Hundley. At least when Boyle is in there, he shows some promise and has a really nice deep ball. For some reason, MM fell in love with bad backup QBs who had trouble reading a defense and preferred to run at the first sound of a step. Wallace, Young, HUndley, et al.

Backup QB is overrated.  You need a guy that can finish a game without blowing a 10 point lead but there's just no room in the salary cap to prioritize a second QB on the roster that is capable of winning consistently.  It really falls on the coach to make it work while the starting QB is hurt, not put it on a QB to be great.  Unless, of course, you want to spend premium draft capital or pay $6-8m for a good veteran backup.  

Put it this way, do you want to draft Drew Lock in the second round and pass up Elgton Jenkins?  Not perfect hypothetical since Lock went before, just pretend for a second.  Another scenario - would you cut Bulaga and use his $8m cap savings to sign Teddy Bridgewater?  That's kind of the choice when it comes to having a good backup - use premium draft capital to get a young guy and develop him, or pay for a veteran backup.  

Maybe TT got burned on the Brian Brohm pick and decided backup QB wasn’t ever worth any more investment than a late round pick or a UDFA? It’s not like we were cycling through good veterans or draft picks, even for a tryout or an FA visit. Everyone pretty much cycles through the same few average backups like Fitzpatrick, McCown, etc. 

Maybe, but the sense that I get is that there was a severe disconnect between the coaching staff and the FO, prompting Murphy to make this organizational structure change. I'm not convinced TT was listening to what MM or his coaches wanted all that much in recent years. Based on where guys have gone after they've left our roster, I don't think the issue has been 100% player development. If Brett Hundley had gone to Seattle and started playing well I might agree that it was a development issue, I think TT just sucked at identifying QBs. 

Grave Digger posted:

 If Brett Hundley had gone to Seattle and started playing well I might agree that it was a development issue, I think TT just sucked at identifying QBs. 

It wasn't a developmental issue; it was an issue of MM taking years to figure out his QBs couldn't play.

Under McCarthy,  the best we could hope for in a BU QB was someone who wouldn't lose a game already won. ie Able to generate some time consuming offense even if he didn't score.

 MMs scheme relied on identifying and exploiting the defensive weakness presented on each play and co-ordinating the reads and responses of the QB and receivers. Too many moving parts for the QB to be plug and play without extensive practice and experience.

A scheme designed to get one receiver open can work for lesser talents.I believe the new offense will more closely align with NE's version, which has proven to be consistent regardless of the name under center. There haven't been many beside Brady but Casell and Garopolo both had unexpected success there.

 

BrainDed posted:

Someone explain to me the logic of keeping 2 turds at backup QB on the roster.  Is two turds really better than 1 turd?   I don't think so.    Just stash that single turd in the corner and hope the rest of the league never sees it.

A turd in the hand?  I'll take the Irish turd.

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