The GOAT vs Tom Brady. The game formerly known as The Bay Of Pigs. Brought to you by Bellin Health and U.S. Cellular.

@Henry posted:

Yeah, that lead would hold.  It's pretty fucking hilarious considering it's the first two INTs he's had all year and against a strong defense.  He would've been throwing the ball away for the rest of the game.  "Forcing" it to Adams may just be an indicator that the rest of the WR corp fucking sucks just like last year.

Forcing it to Adams may be an indication that Rodgers was doing just that since Adams was out for a couple of weeks and Rodgers wanted to get him back in the game. He did just fine without Adams, but you gotta think that TB knew Rodgers was going to look for him today as well. Despite TB being all over Adams, Rodgers still targeted him 10 times. Rodgers had a horrible game -- witness how he missed Lewis who was more than 10 yards in the clear. His line didn't give him any help and neither did MLF's playcalling, which for one of the few times was subpar. (Unless Rodgers' helmet was "malfunctioning" often.)

Makes sense.  Oline got crushed and everything else unraveled.

Two years ago defenders couldn't come close to a QB's head ... today it seemed like 2-3 times TB should have gotten called for it.

Everyone for the Pack gets an F grade for that game. What might actually deserve an F- is just how terrible the RBs were in trying to pickup blitzes.  It was like the RBs had never seen blitzing LBs in their lives before.  I honestly can't remember a game where I've seen Packer RBs that poor in picking up blitzes.  I'll give the Bucs credit, Devin White and Lavonte David are pretty exceptional and fast, but geez the RBs were just totally overmatched by those guys. 

Either Adams is still hurt or Carleton Davis is one of the top 5 CBs in the league.

@Fandame posted:

Forcing it to Adams may be an indication that Rodgers was doing just that since Adams was out for a couple of weeks and Rodgers wanted to get him back in the game. He did just fine without Adams, but you gotta think that TB knew Rodgers was going to look for him today as well. Despite TB being all over Adams, Rodgers still targeted him 10 times. Rodgers had a horrible game -- witness how he missed Lewis who was more than 10 yards in the clear. His line didn't give him any help and neither did MLF's playcalling, which for one of the few times was subpar. (Unless Rodgers' helmet was "malfunctioning" often.)

He did just fine without Adams when the Oline wasn't getting crushed and every other WR wasn't covered as much as Adams.

My point is this.  Rodgers throws a season TOTAL of 2 INTs because the whole offense was getting whipped by an overwhelming Tampa defense.  Rodgers runs the offense and he had nowhere to go.  He pushed it trying to make something happen.  He got beat just like the rest of the offense.  The run game was getting stoned.  The pass game was getting stoned and they fell apart.

@BrainDed posted:

Two positives today.

Run defense continues to be decent and Dillon got some decent game experience.

And lots of punting practice.

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

.

Hopefully, that's because of coaching and QB talent and not because the first 4 teams they played were terrible.

Well one team they played is terrible.  They lost to a winless team at home no less.

LaFleur said he didn't think Bak's injury was serious

The Packers got punched in the mouth by one of the leagues better defenses. They took a couple haymakers and never got up off the canvas. Plenty of blame to go around. Plenty to watch and learn from. Bucs offense not as scary to me.

Losing sucks. Got to get well and get back to winning again. Bucs took some of the Packers’ swagger and they gotta get it back.

The narrative just never seems to change. Aaron Rodgers, when he is playing well, which is far more often than not, means the Packers have a great chance at winning.

When Rodgers doesn’t play at his normal high level, the rest of the team just isn’t good enough to pick him up.

The sports sections all over the country will say “Brady beats Rodgers”, but in reality, Brady has very little to do with the win. Their defense won this game. Our line couldn’t protect Rodgers, and when he gets rattled, his level of play isn’t what it normally is. This is when we would normally see a lot more fast developing plays. Yet Rodgers was consistently taking four step drops, and getting smeared-and that was before Bakhtiati got hurt.

We were 13-3 last year, and the places that we needed to improve to have a real strong shot at getting back to the Super Bowl were evident to everybody. We did virtually nothing to shore up our deficiencies. We didn’t add a single impact wide receiver in the draft or FA. The one guy we did sign, Funchess, opted out of the season because of the pandemic. We replaced a decent but not impactful inside linebacker with an athletic, yet incredibly injury prone one, and /shock face, he’s hurt again.

Instead of addressing our porous run defense, our below average wide receiver group, or weak inside linebacker group, we drafted a quarterback that won’t see the field for three years and a running back. At least Dillon is starting to see some play time.

I don’t honestly know how we could have had a worse offseason. We did nothing to close the gap between us and the Niners. And now, Rodgers has to win games for us.

I want to be positive about this team. After all, 13-3 and now 4-1 with MLF should be plenty reason for optimism. But we don’t want to win the regular season. We want to bring the Lombardi home.

@fightphoe93 posted:

Everyone for the Pack gets an F grade for that game. What might actually deserve an F- is just how terrible the RBs were in trying to pickup blitzes.  It was like the RBs had never seen blitzing LBs in their lives before.  I honestly can't remember a game where I've seen Packer RBs that poor in picking up blitzes.  I'll give the Bucs credit, Devin White and Lavonte David are pretty exceptional and fast, but geez the RBs were just totally overmatched by those guys.

I think part of that was that Tampa D was in jailbreak mode all day, the RBs weren't even in place when the blitz crashed through.  It's like the oline just melted.  Normally RBs are chipping and in this case they were full out required to block like a LT.

Both LaFleur & Rodgers talked about not getting out of the huddle quick enough, which led to less time to settle & change plays / blocking assignments when needed. Said they were in the wrong formation on the second pick & in general a lot of mental mistakes. Lafleur admitted that their DC was one step ahead of him the entire game & he had no answers.

It's nice to have an upfront coach.  He's learning as well.

Aaron Rodgers is Superman. The last three years-37 games in total, including today, he has thrown 8 interceptions.

It’s unfair, and unrealistic to expect him to be perfect every game. His front office did nothing to help him in the off-season. Nothing. So, I’m not going to be too critical of #12.

@Henry posted:

It's nice to have an upfront coach.  He's learning as well.

I really like MLF. Today was just a bad day. It doesn’t diminish my enthusiasm for our skipper one bit.

Having a weapon like Jones play decoy is stupid.

@lambeausouth posted:

I really like MLF. Today was just a bad day. It doesn’t diminish my enthusiasm for our skipper one bit.

If anything else, his upfront honesty makes me like him even more. You could see on the sidelines how much this was killing him, and you could tell he wasn't blaming the players. Yes, he's in only his second year and Rodgers has bailed him out a couple times. He still has things to learn. I trust that by his words and the look on his face during the game today that he'll be watching film and trying to see where he went wrong and how he could have changed what he did.

@GBFanForLife posted:

You didn't notice they demoted Jones to that position?

If this offense hinges on Tyler Ervin, we're in much worse shape than any of us believed. It might be one factor of many. But I can't help wonder if part of the disaster today wasn't in fact due to 17's return. Nothing near the creativity we had started to see. Very little pre-snap dynamics. Where guys were schemed open the previous 4 games, it was few and far between today. TB had a gameplan and they executed. The opportunities Rodgers had he pissed away with bad throws. What did MLF do at half to counter what was going on? Because even when you're getting whooped, a coaching staff's purpose is to cgange things up. I won't say it's completely due to Adams coming back, but the pick 6 was as bad a telegraph as I;ve ever seen from Rodgers. And if his decision making shifted this week, I think it's a fair question to find out wtf was going on. Ir's one game. It's a bad loss. They will play better next week. But it's also pretty evident that there's a strong blueprint as to how to attack this high powered offense, and when team's execute it, GB looks average/below average for the world to see. They need to put this behind them, but they need to respond in a convincing way too. And wtf is going on with Preston Smith, anyway?

Rodgers was looking at Adams from the snap. It was easy for the defense.

This is the same team as last year except the overall personnel is probably worse. It's amazing they are 4-1. Hopefully, that's because of coaching and QB talent and not because the first 4 teams they played were terrible.

I agree for the most part but you also need to consider that Lazard was supposed to be an improvement at #2 WR over MVS and the FA they signed opted out.  

Im not happy about the draft either.   In fact, outside of Jenkins, Jaire, and Savage, we don’t have many contributors from 3 years of Gute draft picks.   I don’t know which was worst, wasting #12 pick on a guy who didn’t even produce in college or moving up to take a guy in the 1st round to ride the pine for 3 years.  

I can’t believe nobody’s mentioned Opie’s shorts.  Were those regulation???  They looked like Hot Pants (you have to be old like me to remember what those were).

Lost the battle. Win the war. Tampa needed this game BADLY to stay in it. They played well, the Packers played like shit & the league made sure not to call any penalties on the the most penalized team in the league.

We get it.

Move along....go get 'em next week

@FLPACKER posted:

LaFleur is his presser said they didn't do as much of motion because they thought that TB defended the Jet sweep well. Said they wanted to stretch the defense out and cut back using the wide zone run .... problem was that they could not get o-lineman out to block their LBers.

That makes sense given how well the LBs where flying to the ball on the pitch plays they ran.

@Boris posted:

Lost the battle. Win the war. Tampa needed this game BADLY to stay in it. They played well, the Packers played like shit & the league made sure not to call any penalties on the the most penalized team in the league.

We get it.

Move along....go get 'em next week

Exactly.  The Packers got trucked yesterday and that unfortunately will happen to a team.  How they bounce back will be the true test of the coaching staff.

My one complaint from yesterday wasn't the offense but (as usual from me) is the defense.  Watching Tampa's defense and how physical and aggressive they are made me wish we had a defense like that.  it just seems like the Packers defense is a finesse defense that reacts to the other team instead of being physical and punch the other team in the mouth. 

...and we still need to block lavonte david and 45.  every single guy whiffed on those 2.

@pkr_north posted:

...and we still need to block lavonte david and 45.  every single guy whiffed on those 2.

Linsley couldn't shed from the DL he was engaged with quick enough to get out to them. David and 45 are really good, but you look even better when you can sprint 10 yards to tackle a guy when you are untouched.

The narrative surrounding the GBP, will now move away from the Rodgers is MVP talk, to how Brady is goat bs. Tampa's defense was the star of this game. INTs, sacks and pressures disrupted Rodgers. I hated the play on every facet of this team. Coming off a bye, some say the Packers have had trouble doing so. Using Adams and ESB, when they haven't played in a while, our expectations of greatness from them was way off. Our RBs couldn't pick up the blitz, all game, it seemed. Our WRs and TEs had drops and misses on pass plays the would have moved the chains. Amos had a sure INT hit him in the hands and he didn't catch it, either. Rodgers's throws wobbled off his hand and his accuracy wasn't there, either. Could the breeze have been that much of a factor? We just did not look to be ready for this game. Regroup and get ready for whomever is up next! Now we have to see what injuries have done to this team. Bakh has a chest injury. Barnes got injured, but I never heard what kind of injury he had. Tonyan limped around most of the game, but stayed in, most of the time. What happened to Ervin? Every coach and player gets an "F" from me for this game. Too bad! Learn from this and move on! Thank our stars that we are not viking fans!

Had we not basically handed them 14 easy points and made a few more plays - like Lewis reeling in a long pass from Rodgers and Amos not dropping the pick then it’s a ballgame.   San Francisco humiliated them last year.  Yes, 38-10 was ugly but they were competitive for almost half the game against TB.  

What should be cause for concern is the defense has generated 3 turnovers this season and they are not getting to the QB. Unless our offense has a good game we aren’t going to beat good teams.  

They laid an egg but the fact that they looked like UW Whitewater playing Alabama doesn't bode well for us come playoff time.  We heard the same talk last year after the first Niners game and how things would be different when we played them the second time.  We all know how that ended.  I think MLF is a special coach but I just don't think we have a talented enough roster to be a SB contender.

You can basically run down the rest of the schedule and check the LOSS box against any D that can rush 4 and drop 7 that has really good LB's.

IND.  SF.  I don't know what PHI, CAR or TEN has in those categories. CHI is going to be tougher than earlier thought.  They have both of those and now with a good looking rookie, have a pair of very solid corners.

The Packers ran 17 plays in the second quarter and gained five yards.

— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) October 19, 2020

An indication of just how bad the offense was yesterday. GB lost the battle in the trenches badly on both sides of the ball.

@The Crusher posted:

They laid an egg but the fact that they looked like UW Whitewater playing Alabama doesn't bode well for us come playoff time.  We heard the same talk last year after the first Niners game and how things would be different when we played them the second time.  We all know how that ended.  I think MLF is a special coach but I just don't think we have a talented enough roster to be a SB contender.

I hope you're wrong, but it's entirely possible you're right.  There's been a few shoddy personnel decisions over the past few years that might be the difference between being a Super Bowl champion or just an above average team that can't crack the elite level. 

They've hit on 3 terrific players the past 3 years in Z. Smith via Free Agency, J. Alexander, and E. Jenkins via the draft, but it seems like some of the other mistakes (i.e. Jason Spriggs from the TT era, J'Mon Moore, Oren Burks, Josh Jackson) have not been made up for.  

@The Crusher posted:

I think MLF is a special coach but I just don't think we have a talented enough roster to be a SB contender.

Who does? Tampa? The Saints? Seattle? SF? Rams? Bears?? Cardinals?

GTFOHWTS.

@The Crusher posted:

They laid an egg but the fact that they looked like UW Whitewater playing Alabama doesn't bode well for us come playoff time.  We heard the same talk last year after the first Niners game and how things would be different when we played them the second time.  We all know how that ended.  I think MLF is a special coach but I just don't think we have a talented enough roster to be a SB contender.

They got blown out in 3 games last year and the script was the same (Niners, Chargers, Niners). The opposing Front 7 just dominated our OL and our Front 7 did not put pressure on the QB or stop the run. That's exactly what happened yesterday.

Our OL had been really good this year until yesterday. That's less of an issue going forward. It would be nice to have a better replacement for Bulaga, but as long as Bakh is healthy they can get by with what they have on offense.

Our defense is the real issue. Our defense has not put enough pressure on QBs all year. Z. Smith is the only elite pass rusher. P. Smith is playing out of position as a necessity. Alexander is an elite CB and Kenny Clark is an excellent DL. They missed Kevin King yesterday badly.

The problem is that their ILBs, DL other than Clark, and safeties are pedestrian. Savage was supposed to be a playmaker, but he was out yesterday, and when he's played over the last 2 years struggles to make impact plays (2 interceptions in his career). Amos is a perfect safety on a team with other playmakers. He's solid, assignment-sure, and a veteran presence, but he's not a playmaker. Their DL outside of Clark may be among the weakest in the league.

Bottom line is that this team got to the NFC title game last year and got exposed because their personnel on defense couldn't compete. What did they do to try to improve? They replaced a solid, but pedestrian, guy in Martinez with a guy that hasn't been healthy in years and now are playing a rookie UDFA instead. That's the change.

If your DL can't consistently put pressure on and there's a huge hole in the middle of the field, expecting Pettine to make this a championship-level defense is way too much to ask.

Of course, it may be nice in 3 years when Jordan Love is handing the ball off to Dillon running behind DeGaura and we are trying to rebuild into a playoff team, but they did NOTHING to improve the personnel from last year to be more competitive this year. No team in the NFL did less. It doesn't mean you go on a Daniel Snyder-level spending spree, but doing the same thing again and expecting different results is maddening.

@Boris posted:

Who does? Tampa? The Saints? Seattle? SF? Rams? Bears?? Cardinals?

GTFOHWTS.

It's all about matchups.

Green Bay matches up well with the Saints. They beat them.

The Saints beat the Bucs. The Bucs blew the Packers out. Their front 7 was dominant.

If the Packers can keep Rodgers upright in the pocket they can hang with anyone. If they can't they struggle.

A dominant front 7 (and especially a dominant DL) covers up a lot of problems behind it. It's also what differentiates title teams from teams that fall short. The 1996 DL was one of the best in the history of the NFL. The 2010 Packers defense was good enough to win because they had Ryan Pickett, BJ Raji, and Corey Jenkins at near peak. The 2007 Giants beat the best offensive team in history because of their pass rush.

On defense, the Packers need more from their pass rush than Z. Smith.

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

It's all about matchups.

Green Bay matches up well with the Saints. They beat them.

The Saints beat the Bucs. The Bucs blew the Packers out. Their front 7 was dominant.

If the Packers can keep Rodgers upright in the pocket they can hang with anyone. If they can't they struggle.

A dominant front 7 (and especially a dominant DL) covers up a lot of problems behind it. It's also what differentiates title teams from teams that fall short. The 1996 DL was one of the best in the history of the NFL. The 2010 Packers defense was good enough to win because they had Ryan Pickett, BJ Raji, and Corey Jenkins at near peak. The 2007 Giants beat the best offensive team in history because of their pass rush.

On defense, the Packers need more from their pass rush than Z. Smith.

Exactly.  The Bucs dominated us on both sides of the line.  Just like the Niners did last year.

@Boris posted:

Who does? Tampa? The Saints? Seattle? SF? Rams? Bears?? Cardinals?

GTFOHWTS.

I would say Tampa does.  Just a hunch.

If the Pack plays the Bucs again, I just hope it's at Lambeau Field in January.  We'd have a fighting chance against them in that situation as Lambeau's turf in January slows down pass rushers enough to give Rodgers more time.

If they were to play them at Tampa or in a neutral bubble type situation, beating them would be a very tall order.  I would think Tampa is at least a 6 point favorite in Tampa or in a neutral bubble based on yesterday's game assuming things aren't too different from an injury standpoint. 

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

1. One of the other penalties was Gary's face mask (15 yards). Obvious.

2-3. Two obvious pre-snap penalties for 6 yards. Obvious

4. One of the most obvious pass interfence calls you'll ever see for 40 yards

5. 5 yard Josh Jackson hold (which I don't doubt).

6. Elgton Jenkins hold

Only #5 and #6 were even judgement calls. The refs were letting them play generally. In reality, the Packers had two judgement calls for 15 yards against them, the Bucs had none. Not really much difference.

The issue isn’t GB penalties.  The issue is Tampa wasn’t called for any!  The most penalized team in the league.