The NBA Finals

ChilliJon posted:

Toronto is no joke. That’s a great team with a really good coach. Not sure Durant makes a difference. Toronto just traveled to Oakland and beat GS by double digits in back to back games. Very impressive. 

Honestly, there is a degree of opportunism here- the far more impressive thing is what they did to Milwaukee. The Bucks punched them dead in the face and drew blood- and they got up and never lost again. 

People are really tossing the way Toronto beat Milwaukee away rather recklessly- the Bucks had significant leads in games 5 and 6 and Toronto choked them out in both games. After the dust settles, an injured Golden State Team never had a chance if they could do that to a Milwaukee team that was poised to win it all. 

d-fense..d-fense..

Yeah, it's too bad the Bucks did not get by Toronto since it sure looks like a championship would have been a very real possibillity.

Kevin Durant back tonight. He hasn't done real conditioning since May 8th. 

In the 6 games before that, he averaged 40 a game and was 23-51 from 3. 

If he comes back and drops 40 tonight, he's in the running for the GOAT offensive player. It's more likely he struggles to be a shadow of his typical self, but at the very least he spaces the floor for Steph and Klay. 

That sucks. The Warriors were going to win if Durant had not reinjured his calf. And then the classy Toronto fans were waving goodbye and cheering when he got hurt. 

Is there an NBA player more unsound than Seth Curry. Mr Turnover.

All the slow motion replays seem to show what is most likely a torn Achilles for Durant. That's at least a 12 month recovery. He risked a 5 year, 221 million contract from the Warriors (or a 4 year, 164 million contract from anyone else). 

We'll see how much good faith the Warriors owners operate under. They should at least give him a 4 year, 164 million dollar extension for risking that much money by playing. 

Kevon Looney can't breathe without pain and he's out there banging. 

On to Game 6. 

Warriors looked deflated afterwards even after a big win - the Durant injury sucked any joy out of the game for them. 

Steph Curry is a different kind of incredible. 

Looney is a grown assed man. His collar bone is fractured. He can’t play. But he’s trying. 

Some ugly basketball at times. Why did Nurse call time out with his team up by 6, seemed to give GS time to re-group  

Klay Thompson was killing it from the 3 point line. Guy is amazing. 

Splash Bros. Inc. That was nuts. What a comeback by GS. I mean, down 6 with 1:39 left. Then a goaltending call and an over and back... and they still won. No wonder the dinosaurs died. Cough.

Packdog posted:

Some ugly basketball at times. Why did Nurse call time out with his team up by 6, seemed to give GS time to re-group  

Klay Thompson was killing it from the 3 point line. Guy is amazing. 

I agree on the timeout. One of the dumbest timeouts I've ever seen. If Kerr would have had more than one timeout left, he'd have called one earlier in the run. The crowd was loud and the game seemed over at that point. Kawhi had just scored 4 consecutive trips down the floor and the Warriors had no answer. Steph just missed an open and his body language was almost like he had given up. What better play could he have drawn up than to get the ball to Kawhi and clear out for him - it had just worked 4 straight times down the floor. Nurse didn't even substitute after the timeout so it wasn't like he wanted to get someone in for a specific reason either. 

He calls timeout, the crowd calms down, Kerr resets his defense, makes a substitution to get more shooting on the floor (Cook), and the Warriors claw back into it afterwards. 

And then he doesn't call timeout with 15 seconds left to set up something down 1? 

Durant had 11 points in 12 minutes after missing a month. And Kerr sat him 6 minutes into the game. Just a different kind of scorer. 

Nurse TO with 3 left was something. I think it messed with Toronto more than it helped GS. Toronto scored 2 points the last 3 minutes. Coach iced his own team. 

ChilliJon posted:

Nurse TO with 3 left was something. I think it messed with Toronto more than it helped GS. Toronto scored 2 points the last 3 minutes. Coach iced his own team. 

Just the rest it provided Curry and Thompson was huge. Without Durant, you know one of those two guys is going to shoot. No matter how good a shape they are in, the effort those two expend running off of countless screens tires them out. 

Wow, talk about seismic. Durant’s future is now 100% in doubt. No way Knicks or Nets fork over for him now. They can’t wait. Maybe this puts the Lakers in play. Even the Bucks. He might take the year off. 

Splash Brothers have one more miracle left in them? Thompson was key on both ends down the stretch. Seems the hammy is ok now. Extra day of rest can’t hurt...

Maybe he takes his $31M option to sit the season out. 

Brutal injury. Gonna be all sorts of finger pointing now. Wouldn't want to be GS management or training staff right about now...deserved or not.  I would think Durant had some say in whether he was going to play, but can't help but think he felt pressure to get back out there. Feel just terrible for him. 

The bigger issue is what will the other free agents like Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker Or Jimmy Butler or Kahwi Leonard do?  Will the Durant injury cause them to lean back toward their current teams?   I don’t know.  

As for Durant it’s a really terrible situation. I cannot see any scenario that involves Golden State paying him a super max deal now.  He’s 30 years old, and will basically not play at all in 2019/2020.   So he opts in for his player option at 31MM with no strings attached.  That would seem logical. 

If you are the Clips or Knicks or Nets do you somehow convince him to join your team for less overall money (but long term security) without knowing if he fully recovers and may not play for a year or two?    

Tschmack posted:

The bigger issue is what will the other free agents like Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker Or Jimmy Butler or Kahwi Leonard do?  Will the Durant injury cause them to lean back toward their current teams?   I don’t know.  

As for Durant it’s a really terrible situation. I cannot see any scenario that involves Golden State paying him a super max deal now.  He’s 30 years old, and will basically not play at all in 2019/2020.   So he opts in for his player option at 31MM with no strings attached.  That would seem logical. 

If you are the Clips or Knicks or Nets do you somehow convince him to join your team for less overall money (but long term security) without knowing if he fully recovers and may not play for a year or two?    

I think we've seen the last of Durant as what has been a top 10-20 player all time. He won't play in another game until October 2020 at this point if it's a complete tear. Cousins sat out 12 months and still isn't right 17 months out. 

If Durant doesn't play in another game until October 2020 (very likely), he'll be 32 years old the next time he steps on the court. 

So Kawhi is the guy to most tell Durant look long term.

I have to believe the Knicks or Nets will do just about anything in their power to sign him - injury or not.   While it would be honorable for Golden State to extend him doing so would jeopardize their ability to keep Klay and Green.  

What the Knicks have going for them is they could try to deal for Anthony Davis or simply tank another year knowing that KD is on the shelf next season.  That would give them two appealing (top) draft picks to surround KD or give them plenty of ammo to make an Anthony Davis trade.  If you are New Orleans, the idea of getting two lottery picks (this year and next) from the Knicks to surround Zion and Holiday and Randle (if extended) would be a good move for them. 

If I’m the Lakers I’m shifting focus to Jimmy Butler or Kahwi.  I can’t see any scenario of the Lakers landing Davis. 

I wonder if the Durant injury will cause the NBA (or the NBA Players Association) to revisit the collective bargaining agreement. Durant isn't the greatest example because he could have signed for more guaranteed money several times but didn't. 

The current contract rules are designed, in part, to protect teams from themselves to prevent them from giving massive contracts out unless the players meet certain levels (MVP, All-NBA, etc.). They also don't let guys sign extensions early. 

If I'm Giannis (or his agent), I'm watching the Durant situation play out and thinking about why I have to wait for another year to sign the massive extension he'll be eligible for. They can offer 5 years and 250 million on July 1, 2020. Why should Giannis have to wait for another year and risk injury before signing it if that's what he wants to do?

If the Bucks could offer Giannis a 10 year, 400 million dollar contract right now they'd do it. Mike Trout just signed for 12 years and 426 million guaranteed. Why shouldn't a guy like Giannis get a similar contract? If he signed, it would provide certainty for the Bucks going forward on how to build their roster and would provide Giannis ultimate security. 

No way... longer deals don’t help. Not in the NBA, where injuries are more prevalent. The original MAX were 7 years- and teams signing players for that long were ****ed if the guy got hurt. 

I don’t know what the answer is... the player empowerment era started with Lebron. Money is no longer the driving factor anymore, especially for the top tier players. Player control is what the top guys want. 

It'll be interesting how much the Durant injury scares guys. It was possible that Irving and even AD after next year would have entertained the one+one contracts that Durant and Lebron were doing. 

 I do know the new CBA needs to include the MLB rule for college players- you come of HS, fine, but if you go to college you go 3 years. 

I agree I’m not sure longer contracts are a good idea.   Not unless there’s a team option let’s say after 5 years.   We’ve seen in baseball (see Prince Fielder) where a guy gets hurt and it could cripple a franchise for years. 

I actually think the opposite approach is valid.  Players want more control, so then make shorter deals.  Those that want more stability and security can agree to longer term deals.  Sure, there’s risk in doing so but given how quickly things can change in the NBA (coaches, players, owners) the star players are likely to give up long term security for shorter term control. 

Let’s also not forget the star players can command 30-40MM a year.  So it’s not like they are making chump change.  In the case of LeBron or KD they can recoup lost long term contract dollars quickly through endorsements and sponsorships.  

The long-term contract thing is obviously an issue and the CBA is set up to protect teams from themselves. The contracts like Allan Houston's (who got 70 million dollars over 5 years he didn't play for the Knicks in the early 2000s) can be crippling. But the CBA also prevents teams that are well run and forward thinking from locking in guys early in mutually beneficial ways. The player gets security and the team can plan long-term. If the Bucks could sign Giannis to an extension right now, they should be able to. Instead, they'll be a year of rumors and uncertainty (just like in New Orleans this year). 

The problem isn't guys like LeBron, Curry, Giannis, or AD getting gigantic extensions. The problem is being forced to sign a guy like Middleton to that size of a contract. But that's the problem the Bucks face now, anyway. Imagine if they could have negotiated with Middleton to sign him to a 6 year/100 million contract last summer that he might have taken to have the security. 

We forget some of the bad contracts that were signed a couple of years back when the salary cap went up in 2016/2017.   Tim Mozgov getting 64MM over 4 years.  Our guy Delladova getting 38MM over 4 years.   Ryan Anderson getting 80MM over 4 years. The worst may have been Chandler Parsons 94MM over 4 years!!   The guy has averaged 7 PPG the last 3 seasons for cripes sake.  

I’m not saying Middleton is affordable nor does a max type deal seem reasonable but when you compare his potential contract of 30MM per season to a guy like Parsons maybe it’s not that bad after all.  

Middleton just moved into a new house in the Milwaukee area. I don't think he's going anywhere. 

https://clutchpoints.com/bucks...lwaukee-area-suburb/

I cannot wait until Paul Pierce is never part of a pregame program again...

No Durant. No Klay. A gimpy Cousins and a bunch of guys that can't shoot. 

Music City posted:

I cannot wait until Paul Pierce is never part of a pregame program again...

I could do without ever hearing Reggie Miller or Mark Jackson do commentary during a game as well. 

All titles count obviously, but talk about one with an asterisk. No Durant, No Klay, a gimpy Cousins, Looney with one arm, along with Green, Iggy, and Curry. 

Better sportsmanship shown by the Golden State Warriors than has been shown by the entire country of Canada.

Danny Green did what he felt needed to be done. But he’s an all time douschebag. 

Congrats to the Raptors!!! Canada will be even more drunk than usual this week. 

Not just injuries, but a torn ACL(Klay) and a ruptured achilles(Durant). Devastating. 

ChilliJon posted:

Danny Green did what he felt needed to be done. But he’s an all time douschebag. 

I don’t think he did anything wrong. He challenged a dunk. Thompson landed wrong, horrible luck. It’s a freak accident. 

I think this is more about guys playing 100 games a season for 5 years. It takes a toll.  

I don’t know if it was irony, but for the officials to interject themselves into the end of this game the way they did I somewhat apropos. Needed to go to replay. So pathetic. 

Toronto really was a giant killer on this run. Milwaukee was poised to romp to a title, and Leonard changes the series. Now granted, he cannot defend Giannis one on one- no one can. But he was a destroyer offensively, and “The Wall” was effective enough to prevent Giannis from matching Leonard shot for shot. 

The Bucks look like they’re running this team back, and with Thompson and Durant out until basically 2020, the player movement will completely change the entire face of the league. But the “King of the East” (Game of Zones reference) has arrived. 

Congrats to the Raptors but this whole thing left me with the same feeling when the Pack gave away that championship game in Seattle. We would've beat the Patriots for the title, and the Bucks would've taken this given the sorry health of the Warriors. If only Giannis could make free throws....

This one stings. Bucks should have that trophy.