100% agree but it'll never happen.  I was never a fan of China even before the pandemic on multiple levels.  It'll never happen because all the rough and tough talk led China to say we will sanction U.S. lawmakers.  Besides one or two elected officials their collective balls/ovaries went into retreat. 

The one thing I do hate is how a totalitarian government's dictates are being turned on individuals, many who aren't even Chinese or never even lived in China.  How do people with even luke warm IQs find this logical? (rhetorical)  That message of differentiating between the two better be coming from all quarters of these newly minted "China Hawks" instead of conveniently fluctuating between "xenophobia" and "I'm rough and tough on China".

Last edited by Henry

I go between "open it all up" and "for pete's sake, stay home and/or wear a mask." It seems there is no "right" answer. If there were a national policy with a plan for relaxation of rules in states based on science, we would have been better off and maybe the split between us wouldn't be so great. But reading about how bad off Brazil is for the past several weeks and then hearing that travel from Brazil is just now closing at midnight tonight... smh.  

We're still seeing a rise in MN, and yesterday had 248 patients in ICU beds, the largest number in one day. But the state is going ahead and opening many things. Get used to the uncertainty, I guess... 

congrats to the Packer fan who showed MSNBC as a bunch of hypocrites. The crew was blasting people in Wisconsin for not having masks on when they turned to a guy in a Davante Jersey and mocked him for nto wearing a mask. The Packer fan then said, "your cameraman doesnt have one on either-and half your crew doesnt have one on. 'The announcer threw up his hands like he was busted. 

Good job Packer fan... now, put a mask on.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/...on-air-for-hypocrisy

 

@Fandame posted:

It seems there is no "right" answer.

Yes, there were/are much better answers but that ship has sailed.

They could've nationalized small business payroll for 3 months at 600 billion keeping people off unemployment and the economy in a ready state to resume while thwarting stupid ideas like "skills gap".  Set up nationwide rules/guidelines for a time specific lock down.  Immediately expand production of needed materials/equipment while giving essential (which now means expendable) workers EXTENSIVE protections including the first available testing outside of hospitals.  Proceed through the specific period of a couple of months to flatten and confirm stabilization then open the economy up and deal with flare ups as they come. 

That concentrated full court press on stabilizing covid cases along with keeping the economy in standby would've stopped massive amounts of small business failures.  Every corner of federal "leadership" failed other than giving 4 trillion untraceable dollars to the leading scumbags of Wall Street.

Josh Hawley, Corey Gardner, Pramilia Jayapal staying in communication about their similar plans and it went nowhere.  They were condemned for real bipartisanship but nary a word for the corporatist scum on each side of the imaginary aisle giving concierge service to Boeing and the big banks.  Banks that completely screwed small businesses by prioritizing larger clients so they could collect bigger fees. 

Yes, there was a very realistic plan that's worked in several countries.  At this point there's zero reason not to open it up again as there is no aid coming for main street so people are just going to have to risk death/major health problems to avoid starvation, homelessness and going bankrupt.  Did you know they closed a HIGHWAY in Vermont to accommodate the amount of cars lining up for the food shelf. 

 

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@Henry posted:

I won't go any further because politics but if we don't push ourselves out of our comfort zones and examine our own beliefs either to correct or confirm we're all fucked.

Fuck MSNBC too.

they did the exact same crap on the bail out for the banks when Bush was president. I remember the details coming out and just shaking my head knowing that giving money to the banks at that time would do nothing to help the people that needed it. It has always been about giving the money to the banks. they get it then they decide if they want to redistribute on their terms where they either keep the majority of it or make insane fees when they do give it out. I am sure the wallets of the senators and congressman are fattended at the end of the day all the time looking at the camera stating how they have helped every day Americans. It is beyond sickening. There are so many other ways they could have handled this and your recommendation makes total sense. And that is why it is dismissed. Too logical with reason but not enough of the already rich get more rich. Maybe the country needs a real designated survivor scenario. It would  be the only way we could get rid of teh greed and corruption. 

Nobody consequential went to jail under Obama.  Doesn't anyone find it hilarious that the darlings of CNN and MSNBC are a collection of Dubya neo-cons?  That should be a pretty big tip off.  None of this complicity helps to navigate a pandemic.

All I want to do is get power back for the populace, put a 220V shock collar on Wall Street and the corporate for profit media then we can all kill each other over our cultural differences. 

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Absolutely, Henry. If you look at many other countries, they right away paid companies to keep people on payroll, and as a result, their unemployment is so much less than ours. Plus, workers will walk back onto their jobs. Here, it's about putting coin in the pockets of voters so they feel like they got something and are grateful, even as companies lay them off despite sitting on wads and wads of cash. The things we could learn from other countries if we were open to it!

@Henry posted:

Nobody consequential went to jail under Obama.  ...

Yet....! that does not mean several dont deserve to go to jail.Hilarys actions alone were enough to send any other person to prison but she got her minions to rally around her to protect her. The right screws up a lot and when they do, the right usually buries their own and leaves them for the vulchers. The left protects their own. Lets see what happens when Durham finishes his report. 

@Fandame posted:

Absolutely, Henry. If you look at many other countries, they right away paid companies to keep people on payroll, and as a result, their unemployment is so much less than ours. Plus, workers will walk back onto their jobs. Here, it's about putting coin in the pockets of voters so they feel like they got something and are grateful, even as companies lay them off despite sitting on wads and wads of cash. The things we could learn from other countries if we were open to it!

one of the main screw ups of the bail out was telling people that if they stay off work when the jobs come back, they will make more money in unemployment than they would make if they went back to work. Don't think that wasnt part of the plan to keep the economy stuck in the mud. 

France paid workers who were laid off because of virus their normal pay until their place of employment reopened. I thought this was a better strategy than us giving everyone, including those whose financial situation was unaffected, a check based on last years taxable income. I wonder what the total expenditure will be per person doing it each way. 

I see what you're saying, FLP, but I still would have liked to see us pay companies to keep workers on the payroll. Paying those who were laid off I get, but don't we do that with unemployment even if it is less? I think companies here might have used that as an excuse to jettison workers to improve the bottom line and let the government pay them. Then, when everything is full-blast ahead, the company's bottom line looks better, investing goes up, company execs look good, the company rakes in more money, etc., and the workers still have no job to go back to. 

@FLPACKER posted:

France paid workers who were laid off because of virus their normal pay until their place of employment reopened. I thought this was a better strategy than us giving everyone, including those whose financial situation was unaffected, a check based on last years taxable income. I wonder what the total expenditure will be per person doing it each way. 

Completely agree.  That's what Hawley, Gardner and Jayapal were proposing.   Cover 80% of payroll for companies to be able to issue payroll themselves.  The 2K checks is more about bullshit political signalling than providing relief.  You have concrete records of payments directly into businesses instead of them hoping for a one time loan that may not be enough to tide them over. 

The unemployment bump they threw out was a stupid ass hail mary to be handled by state unemployment systems that are already broke beyond repair.  It should be considered people not wanting to return to work because of a $600 a month bump to 2/3rds of your pay is a pretty sad statement on the wage gap. 

Now instead of workers simply waiting to return to work you've stacked the unemployment rolls and a lot of those jobs aren't coming back.  But let's all listen to the likes of asshole Rahm Immanuel, who Biden is in "close meetings" with, about people just needing to train themselves in coding because of a skills gap.  Okay, thanks for 4K that won't cover squat for tuition while trying to find a job to survive. 

These people are so clownishly out of touch I don't know how anyone looks at this whole debacle and isn't immediately infuriated.  These fucking pricks are flinging cake right and left.

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Nice imagery on flinging cake!   It does make me infuriated how this whole thing has been a clown show from day one. There was no need for this. And now you'll see a recovery on Wall Street long before you see a recovery on Main Street. As I said, companies aren't bringing back workers, so their bottom lines will automatically improve, and they'll rake it in on Wall Street. On Main Street, the unemployment and homelessness will continue, and the coming buyers' market for jobs will once again keep/push salaries down. Working families and those already in poverty have no chance.

Other than the docs, nurses, emts etc we have no heroes in this pandemic.  Congress is pissing away money when they are doing anything. The CDC has been wrong from the start. Donnie is mostly bs, the govs are all over the map, trying their best in most cases but playing a bad hand. Business is as usual grabbing all they can

What will be will be now, I truly hope that someone, some institution is getting there shit together and  is devising a workable, agreeable plan to deal with this till a vaccine is available for all.

Trump could be our hero, the ball is in his court.

We shall see.

β€œBanks that completely screwed small businesses by prioritizing larger clients so they could collect bigger fees.β€œ

False- stipulation in the execution of the small business loans was no Bank fees. It did cause many banks to walk away from participating, so delays resulted. But once the states got it all figured out, it was done. Many were saved by the loans, including a good number of friends who owned small businesses.

The rest of your β€œplan”? Pseudo-intellectual Monday morning QB bullshit. 

@Music City posted:

β€œBanks that completely screwed small businesses by prioritizing larger clients so they could collect bigger fees.β€œ

False- stipulation in the execution of the small business loans was no Bank fees. It did cause many banks to walk away from participating, so delays resulted. But once the states got it all figured out, it was done. Many were saved by the loans, including a good number of friends who owned small businesses.

The rest of your β€œplan”? Pseudo-intellectual Monday morning QB bullshit. 

You're a fucking idiot as usual. Processing fees.

Banks handling the government's $349 billion loan program for small businesses made more than $10 billion in fees β€” even as tens of thousands of small businesses were shut out of the program, according to an analysis of financial records by NPR.

The banks took in the fees while processing loans that required less vetting than regular bank loans and had little risk for the banks, the records show. Taxpayers provided the money for the loans, which were guaranteed by the Small Business Administration.

Funny, my "plan" is approximately the same "plan" of multiple nations and 3 senators/reps, two who are Republicans.  A "plan" that has proven success and was readily available right at the start of the pandemic response and was successful before the pandemic.  Monday morning QBing obviously means being aware of world events and previous history.

The Monday Morning QBing plan

PPP dried up in mere days?  What I find hilarious is your previous bemoaning the loan process.  I was fully ready to give Trump credit and the PPP took a giant shit on a large segment of small businesses and let taxpayer money go unaccounted for.  I bet your friends kept everyone on payroll too.

Republican Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, the chairman of the Senate’s Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, wrote a letter Tuesday to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Small Business Association Administrator Jovita Carranza, urging the Trump administration to prioritize the interests of workers during its implementation of the paycheck protection program.

”If a business took a loan and still laid off workers, then it should be presumed that they did not apply for the loan to maintain payroll, but rather as a source of credit on highly favorable terms for a firm of their size,” Rubio wrote.

Hey everyone!  New Zealand used the "plan" and just released the last COVID case from the hospital yesterday. 

You're so desperate for a win you keep tripping over your own micro dick, which is an accomplishment in itself. 

 

Last edited by Henry