bigdoggyjude posted:Atlanta did not make this offense look bad - we should have posted 10 points on the first two drives....
Woulda coulda shoulda. They kept our high powered offense out of the end zone for the entire first half and well into the 3rd quarter....caused several 3 and outs, forced a key fumble, interception, and hit on several blitzes.
Look, I'm not absolving the defense by any stretch , they stunk, but it was compounded by the poor FIRST HALF PLUS by our offense.
CAPackFan95 posted:slowmo posted:CAPackFan95 posted:slowmo posted:Would that be the same Dom who had the #2 rated defense in 2010, the year after the meltdown in Arizona?
Well gee. 7 years ago! Never mind. LIFETIME CONTRACT FOR YOUR DAD!
Yep, it's too bad that in the seven years since the quality of defensive players on that side of the ball has steadily deteriorated, as my post which apparently lit your fuse demonstrated.
Glad to see you don't think Capers should be held accountable for his groups performance. You must be a joy to work for!
Pat Gelsinger he ain't 
CAPackFan95 posted:slowmo posted:Never said that, nice projection. I merely pointed out the lack of talent on defense. But, hey, I am probably not as much a joy as you are to watch a game with, always pissing and moaning as you do in game threads.
Oh I'm sorry. Pointing to factual data about your messiah makes you mad, and you need your safe space in game threads.
I'll be sure to note that next year when Dom's defense is getting torched by someone for the 8th consecutive year.
*slowmo doesn't like facts about Dom Capers.
Got it. No one will ever make you feel uncomfortable again.
Nah, I don't like a**holes like you who crap all over game threads with their whining and moaning, think they are clever with the personal insults, and inject politics into a football thread. Feel free to PM me with your response, I think the board is a little bored with our back and forth.
ammo posted:slowmo posted:It's players, not schemes.
The past five years of drafts on defense:
1st Round--Clark:
3rd: Fackrell--no impact
4th: Martinez,
5.
Everything after the sixth round is just a gamble. The fact is that in five years, TT has drafted two impact players in Dix and Daniels, a guy who had a few good games in Perry, and the rest have contributed nothing that matters. You can't win without talent.
You can't count last years draft picks they need at least 1 year to develop.
So then we can expect no help to the D in 2017 from the 2017 draft class.
I agree.
Would that not be a strong argument for making every effort to obtain additional help from sources other than the draft (free agency or trade) to improve the defensive talent in 2017?
Or, are we just going to roll into next season with the same guys minus Peppers, Shields, and likely D. Jones?
Wonder what it would be like if Andy Reid had Rodgers, and MM had Smith.
The Patriots, only getting to the SB is an acceptable outcome. I'm with them on that. Save the pride for something else.
General query: what DC can make a defense work with Gunter, Randall, and Rollins? I hear people ripping Randall and Rollins, some going as far as to say neither should be back and making excuses for Gunter that he's a UDFA who ran a 4.7 40. Sounds like many believe we have nothing at CB, so I ask again: what DC is successful with that caliber of starter? What DC is successful with MD Jennings, Jerron McMillan, Brad Jones, AJ Hawk, Jamari Lattimore, CJ Wilson, Frank Zombo, Demetri Goodson, Sam Barrington, and more all STARTING. Not rotating in, because of a couple those guys are backups on other teams still, but STARTING. Some of them started at multiple times. This is not a defense of Capers, it's a reality that no D.C. Is going to make it work when that's the caliber of player being fielded. It's just unrealistic. Firing the D.C. isn't enough, real talent needs to be brought in. Veteran leadership at all positions is needed. Nobody is wrong in saying the D needs to be better, but to think a DC change make all the difference is really really myopic.
Preaching to the choir.
Packdog posted:bigdoggyjude posted:Atlanta did not make this offense look bad - we should have posted 10 points on the first two drives....
Woulda coulda shoulda. They kept our high powered offense out of the end zone for the entire first half and well into the 3rd quarter....caused several 3 and outs, forced a key fumble, interception, and hit on several blitzes.
Look, I'm not absolving the defense by any stretch , they stunk, but it was compounded by the poor FIRST HALF PLUS by our offense.
I think we kept ourselves out of the end zone and off the score board in the first quarter. They did their part on the Rodgers pressure but the Pack helped out, especially on the 1st two drives. This is not woulda could shoulda - it's a simple fact of the game as it was played.
Grave Digger posted:General query: what DC can make a defense work with Gunter, Randall, and Rollins? I hear people ripping Randall and Rollins, some going as far as to say neither should be back and making excuses for Gunter that he's a UDFA who ran a 4.7 40. Sounds like many believe we have nothing at CB, so I ask again: what DC is successful with that caliber of starter? What DC is successful with MD Jennings, Jerron McMillan, Brad Jones, AJ Hawk, Jamari Lattimore, CJ Wilson, Frank Zombo, Demetri Goodson, Sam Barrington, and more all STARTING. Not rotating in, because of a couple those guys are backups on other teams still, but STARTING. Some of them started at multiple times. This is not a defense of Capers, it's a reality that no D.C. Is going to make it work when that's the caliber of player being fielded. It's just unrealistic. Firing the D.C. isn't enough, real talent needs to be brought in. Veteran leadership at all positions is needed. Nobody is wrong in saying the D needs to be better, but to think a DC change make all the difference is really really myopic.
Well then, it's TT's fault, but we aren't allowed to think that. My preference is for TT and DC to retire and the strength and conditioning coaches get replaced as well.
Grave Digger posted:General query: what DC can make a defense work with Gunter, Randall, and Rollins? I hear people ripping Randall and Rollins, some going as far as to say neither should be back and making excuses for Gunter that he's a UDFA who ran a 4.7 40. Sounds like many believe we have nothing at CB, so I ask again: what DC is successful with that caliber of starter? What DC is successful with MD Jennings, Jerron McMillan, Brad Jones, AJ Hawk, Jamari Lattimore, CJ Wilson, Frank Zombo, Demetri Goodson, Sam Barrington, and more all STARTING.
Who is not Dom Capers?
Time for a change. I hate it, but sometime change for change sake is the right move.
How is it that TT can stack the offense with talent year after year, yet he's utterly incompetent when picking defensive talent? Maybe the defensive coaching staff is predictable, outdated and needs to be replaced.
bigdoggyjude posted:Packdog posted:bigdoggyjude posted:Atlanta did not make this offense look bad - we should have posted 10 points on the first two drives....
Woulda coulda shoulda. They kept our high powered offense out of the end zone for the entire first half and well into the 3rd quarter....caused several 3 and outs, forced a key fumble, interception, and hit on several blitzes.
Look, I'm not absolving the defense by any stretch , they stunk, but it was compounded by the poor FIRST HALF PLUS by our offense.
I think we kept ourselves out of the end zone and off the score board in the first quarter. They did their part on the Rodgers pressure but the Pack helped out, especially on the 1st two drives. This is not woulda could shoulda - it's a simple fact of the game as it was played.
No ,the fact is that they kept us out of the end zone until the 3rd quarter. You saying we "should" have scored doesn't change the fact that they shut us out in the first half plus. The failure of our offense doesn't happen in a vacuum, I'm sure Dan Quinn would say that the fumble by Ripkowski was simply a good play by their defense....and I would agree.
The offense is very good, but how much of that is MM and AR?
Grave Digger posted:General query: what DC can make a defense work with Gunter, Randall, and Rollins? I hear people ripping Randall and Rollins, some going as far as to say neither should be back and making excuses for Gunter that he's a UDFA who ran a 4.7 40. Sounds like many believe we have nothing at CB, so I ask again: what DC is successful with that caliber of starter? What DC is successful with MD Jennings, Jerron McMillan, Brad Jones, AJ Hawk, Jamari Lattimore, CJ Wilson, Frank Zombo, Demetri Goodson, Sam Barrington, and more all STARTING. Not rotating in, because of a couple those guys are backups on other teams still, but STARTING. Some of them started at multiple times. This is not a defense of Capers, it's a reality that no D.C. Is going to make it work when that's the caliber of player being fielded. It's just unrealistic. Firing the D.C. isn't enough, real talent needs to be brought in. Veteran leadership at all positions is needed. Nobody is wrong in saying the D needs to be better, but to think a DC change make all the difference is really really myopic.
I pretty much agree with everything you said and especially the bolded part.
But, we all know the current GM is not going to bring in any veteran leaders, so how does the D get any better given that reality absent a change at DC.
Yeah, that is certainly scapegoating Dom for not only his failures (of which there are many) but for the GM's failures as well, but I don't see any other option.
Packdog posted:bigdoggyjude posted:Packdog posted:bigdoggyjude posted:Atlanta did not make this offense look bad - we should have posted 10 points on the first two drives....
Woulda coulda shoulda. They kept our high powered offense out of the end zone for the entire first half and well into the 3rd quarter....caused several 3 and outs, forced a key fumble, interception, and hit on several blitzes.
Look, I'm not absolving the defense by any stretch , they stunk, but it was compounded by the poor FIRST HALF PLUS by our offense.
I think we kept ourselves out of the end zone and off the score board in the first quarter. They did their part on the Rodgers pressure but the Pack helped out, especially on the 1st two drives. This is not woulda could shoulda - it's a simple fact of the game as it was played.
No ,the fact is that they kept us out of the end zone until the 3rd quarter. You saying we "should" have scored doesn't change the fact that they shut us out in the first half plus. The failure of our offense doesn't happen in a vacuum, I'm sure Dan Quinn would say that the fumble by Ripkowski was simply a good play by their defense....and I would agree.
We called a play were all receivers go deep on 3rd and 4 from their 24 then followed that with a shanked FG.
Rip fumbles on the goaline when a DB tugs on the ball. Rip had fumble-itis and the dropsies today.
You probably thought the Packers D held the Giants to 6 first quarter points in the wild card game all while ignoring that their wide opened receivers dropped routine passes.
Still stand by my original comment, surprised that the Atlanta defense made our offense look bad at times.
It was more about our offense not executing, than what the ATL defense did.
They had a couple nice blitzes that weren't picked up but the offense simply didn't execute & turned the ball over. The defense also didn't grab those takeaways when they had multiple opportunities to do so.
Patriots won't be so forgiving. Patriots will shred the ATL defense with their running game & quick timing passes.
Plus
Nelson a real gladiator
Cobb played well too
Rodgers did alright having been sick and liked his "tude" on the sideline run
Perry
Schum had a couple good punts
Negative
Dropped passes: Cook (2); Nelson (1); Ripkowski (1 or 2) and one more
Both fumbles were inexcusable
Defense was almost a complete disappointment: Missed plays, missed tackles, missed opportunities, missed chances
Failure to effect pressure and aggressive blitz schemes: why can't the Packers blitz better?
Many players failed to make key plays when it counted: Dropped passes, missed fumbles recoveries; missed tackles; dropped INTs; Missed FG and poor kicks, etc.
Lack of commitment to running game
Where was the "hurry-up" offense early on...and in the second half the Packers appeared to be in "non-urgent" mode.
MM poor timing on the first on-sides kick and terrible execution of both onside kicks...Crosby can't do better than that?
Despite being uncovered in the EZ, Janis fails to come back to a scrambling Aaron Rodgers, who desperately attempted to pass the ball to him had Janis run back to the 8 yard line sooner.
Not sure Cook understands yet what it takes to be a "go-to" guy when Aaron Rodgers is the QB.
Crosby...you get paid big $$$ to make the simple ones.
Christine Michael...thanks, but no thanks.
Without Hyde the DBs stunk. Burnett was respectable and Dix too, the others...yuk!
Michaels celebrating on the last play with the falcons was enough for me. His old buddy tackled him for a loss but WTF ever. Have some respect for the guys on your sideline.
Similarly, on of the Steelers players was shown laughing and smiling on the sidelines in the 3rd quarter.
I noticed the Steelers laughing on the sideline as they were getting their asses kicked too. I try not to read too much into that though because you never know if someone is telling a joke and trying to loosen everyone up or if one of them just saw something really funny in the stands or on the sidelines. I'll bet those guys that are on the bench see all kinds of crazy stuff during the course of a game.
In some cases & with some players, These games mean more to the fans than the players.
Players still get paid the same win or lose.
Antonio Brown was paid a 6 figure deal to go "Facebook Live" after the Steelers beat the Chiefs in the Steeler locker room.
It's a new era we live in.
Boris posted:It was more about our offense not executing, than what the ATL defense did.
Sounds like the same excuses the Seahawks used after playing Atlanta. So they didn't play well, we just needed to play better ?
I thought their defense looked much improved. Playing fast , swarming, and tackling well. They also go for the ball a lot, something our defense frustratingly does not seem to do.
These last 9 games the pack showed great resolve when many ppl had left them for dead. Today was a great disappointment, but this team has great character and they will make a push like this again. It was just not their day today. Last two months were quite the ride, and they have nothing to hang their heads over.
Packdog posted:Boris posted:It was more about our offense not executing, than what the ATL defense did.
Sounds like the same excuses the Seahawks used after playing Atlanta. So they didn't play well, we just needed to play better ?
I thought their defense looked much improved. Playing fast , swarming, and tackling well. They also go for the ball a lot, something our defense frustratingly does not seem to do.
It's not an excuse. The Falcons didn't do anything superb. The Packers didn't match. At all....If you noticed the Packers offense drove the ball right down the field a couple times on Atlanta. 1 ended in a turnover. Another ended in a missed FG.
What do you think Brady is going to do vs. that defense?
It's not an excuse. Packers didn't match today. Credos to the Failcons but the Falcon defense is nothing to get excited about.
No the Falcons defense isn't special, but they did what they needed to do today. While their offense was boat-racing our ****ty defense, they held our offense in check.
Aaron Rodgers was under pressure on 21 dropbacks Sunday, tied for most dropbacks under pressure in a playoff game in the last 10 years. QBs who have been pressured at least 20 times in a game in the last 10 postseasons are now 1-5 in those games. (ESPN Stats & Info)
For all the talk about two bad defenses only one was.
It was a mess both sides of the ball.
Aaron Rodgers, we need to reload.
artis posted:These last 9 games the pack showed great resolve when many ppl had left them for dead. Today was a great disappointment, but this team has great character and they will make a push like this again. It was just not their day today. Last two months were quite the ride, and they have nothing to hang their heads over.
It took Aaron Rodgers to all time great at the QB position to win these games, in some instances by narrow margins. Any serviceable defense with that type of QB play would result in double digit victories. If they do not address the defensive side of the ball, coach and players, then next year will also bring great disappointment.
excalibur posted:Aaron Rodgers, we need to reload.
He sent a very clear message to the front office in his post game press conference. Jared Cook as a top priority and reload on D.
Packdog posted:Boris posted:It was more about our offense not executing, than what the ATL defense did.
Sounds like the same excuses the Seahawks used after playing Atlanta. So they didn't play well, we just needed to play better ?
I thought their defense looked much improved. Playing fast , swarming, and tackling well. They also go for the ball a lot, something our defense frustratingly does not seem to do.
I agree that Atlanta played well defensively. Even when the Pack moved the ball, Rodgers was throwing darts from a congested pocket. That makes his performance on the opening two drives even more impressive and the mistakes on offense from others even more critical.
Perhaps I am missing something, but it appears Rodgers runs the play from the sidelines most of the time. I can't really say that he makes adjustments at the line like Brady and Manning. Maybe I'm all wrong - but the infamous MM play "go deep and don't get open" on 3rd and 4 from the ATL 24 on the opening drive really set the tone in this game, as hindsight would show. Is Rodgers making these adjustments and is just more subtle than others?
PackerJoe posted:PackerBackerDPM posted:Truth is somewhere in between...offense needs some improvement at RB and some additional depth at OLine for instance. On defense there are some players between Clark Daniels on the line, Ryan and Martinez at LB now the secondary and the coaching....?
Can't wait to hear if there is an explanation of why Joe Thomas played so much more on the defense than Martinez. Thomas was beyond rotten in this game. Sure look like he blew the coverage on the fullback that went for a 35 yard pass-play early in the game. Also looked horrible on the Ryan touchdown run...Ryan isn't a great enough runner where an athletic linebacker loses his jock in the open field. Just two of many examples. Martinez was covering punts, surely he must have been healthy enough to get more snaps on defense.
If Joe Thomas really is a better linebacker than Martinez, then the Packers still have major issues at ILB.
We saw Martinez in full AJ Hawk mode when he was in today. Nobody in the relatively healthy front seven made a play today to help out with the skeleton crew backfield. Quite simply, there's a huge lack of talent on defense.
They simply made too many mistakes against a team they couldn't afford to make them against. Ripkowki's fumble was huge and symptomatic of the day. Atlanta simply made their big plays, Green Bay didn't.
Another point AR made in his presser was just how important home field advantage can be at some point in the playoffs. Appears he was saying that he thought the game could have been much different if played in GB. Said you just can't lose games in regular season that you have a chance to win because it comes back to bite you.
Packdog posted:Boris posted:It was more about our offense not executing, than what the ATL defense did.
Sounds like the same excuses the Seahawks used after playing Atlanta. So they didn't play well, we just needed to play better ?
I thought their defense looked much improved. Playing fast , swarming, and tackling well. They also go for the ball a lot, something our defense frustratingly does not seem to do.
They're built to play with a lead, kind of like Green Bay's only with more talent up front.
Herschel posted:Packdog posted:Boris posted:It was more about our offense not executing, than what the ATL defense did.
Sounds like the same excuses the Seahawks used after playing Atlanta. So they didn't play well, we just needed to play better ?
I thought their defense looked much improved. Playing fast , swarming, and tackling well. They also go for the ball a lot, something our defense frustratingly does not seem to do.
They're built to play with a lead, kind of like Green Bay's only with more talent up front.
And like the Packers vs. the Giants their defense is better at home. That cursed missed FG and fumble (and give their defenders credit for it) was enormous.
Considering how the majority of the game unfolded, I don't think the missed FG and fumble would have made that much of a difference. AR still would have been pressured and hit, his rhythm thrown off. The guys who got injured still would have got injured. We would still have been without Lang, Hyde, Monty, Jordy and Adams in the 4th quarter. Had it been a tight game those absences would have spelled doom. We still wouldn't have gotten to Ryan, still wouldn't have covered their receivers, etc.
Like others have said I think they just ran out of gas after an early season bye, season ending injuries, win-or-go-home football for 9 straight weeks, the nailbiter AT DAL last week, injuries and flu this week, plane delays, hang nails and untied shoe strings. All that vs a well rested and almost injury free and peaking ATL team. All that said, I'm still kind of shocked they won last weekend.
Grave Digger posted:General query: what DC can make a defense work with Gunter, Randall, and Rollins?... ...Nobody is wrong in saying the D needs to be better, but to think a DC change make all the difference is really really myopic.
Some guy named Richard Smith. DC for the Falcons. Saw it yesterday with my own eyes!
Let's see, he had Beasley and.... and...... 
I'm being facetious, GD, but seriously....which team had the real talent on defense? Am I supposed to believe they have D-Linemen better than Guion and Daniels? Their LBs are better than Matthews, Peppers, and Perry? Their Ss are better than HHCD and Burnett?
I ain't buying that for one second.
It's possible they had more CB talent on the field, but ARod showed it wasn't by much.
Yet they stoned one of the most prolific, hottest offenses. With ease.
I'm not going to say it's not fair to mention injuries, who we actually had available to play, or enduring our schedule over the last 2 months. All fair and valid points.
But, in the end, the other team did much more with much less.
And while I agree that replacing a DC may not be the "fix" we need, I will say it's insanity to think anything is going to change under Capers. And whoever replaces him sure as hell can do no worse.
So, yeah, a change is needed. It's several years overdue. JMHO.
I can't say this was a great season. Oh sure, the "run the table" games were great but when we were losing in the early part of the season, I was in doubt that we could pull ourselves out of the slump we were in. Aaron looked disheveled during that time and none of the WRs or TEs could get open for him to throw to. A lot of the talk was on Aaron not playing in the preseason games and bad drafting by TT and Dom's defensive woes. Now, we are back to Dom's defensive woes and looking to the new draft for answers.
+++ The heart of this team to make that "run the table" comeback; the players playing through injuries; our young players stepping up-Dean Lowry had a great year, Martinez is a tough nut, Jake Ryan had his best season, so far, Adams had his best season, so far, Clark played well on the D Line, Montgomery is a stud, Geronimo Allison showed a lot of promise, Kentrell Brice hits like Chuck Cecil used to. Aaron Rodgers is the best QB on the planet. MVP, in my book. Kenny Perry had a solid year and did quite well with that club. Micah Hyde made some very big plays on defense. Lane Taylor had a great season, Jared Cook should be signed to a better contract. Our O line is a solid unit but could use some healthy back ups. Nelson, Cobb and Adams- what a trio of receivers!
---- Injuries. Our CB play left a lot to be desired. Once the CBs got behind a player, they couldn't catch up to make a play. When we saw the CBs having problems during a game, there were little or no moves to give them some help from the defensive coaches. We need depth at the CB position. WRs running wrong routes or dropping passes. Defensive players running into each other on plays. We don't need to create our own injuries.
Whatever changes the offseason brings, whether it is with players or management, I am looking forward to the 2017 season. GO PACK, GO!!!
