Vet players have buyers remorse in agreeing to CBA

I blame the agents for continuing to blow sunshine up their arses in an attempt to win the players' business. But its a different world now

And DeMaurice didn't do squat except garner himself a big fat paycheck by making Goodell into the boogeyman
( and granted that wasn't a tough job )

The owners "gave in" on less practice time, less hitting, longer time off in March and April - but they didn't give in on the $$$ side which is why they are billionaires in the first place.

NFLPA was overmatched and now these players will have to adjust their expectations AND they'll be looking for somebody to blame. I suspect DeMo will go from hero to zero real quick...rhetoric only goes so far and eventually money talks and bull**** walks

quote:

Originally posted by Satori:
The owners "gave in" on less practice time, less hitting, longer time off in March and April - but they didn't give in on the $$$ side which is why they are billionaires in the first place.

This. Less practice, hitting, longer time off, nixing 2-a-days doesn't impact $$$ much if at all. The product may not be quite as good but it won't drop enough that players won't play and fans won't spend hundreds on games per week.

Where it mattered? Which was making all of their potential money before 29 is where the owners did the ole' switch-a-roo.

Part of the reason guys like Woodson are so puzzled right now.

I smell a rat.
After all the blowing of trumpets and thumping of chests from both sides, how did the union and player reps sell this bag o' crap to the rank and file?

I'm not a lawyer, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but still could've done a better job for the players than DeMo.

It's possible with a significant increase in the salary cap, some extra money would be available to vets in free agency, but if it remains relatively flat, the pace of QB salaries will continue to eat up what's available.

quote:

Originally posted by Satori:
I blame the agents for continuing to blow sunshine up their arses in an attempt to win the players' business. But its a different world now

And DeMaurice didn't do squat except garner himself a big fat paycheck by making Goodell into the boogeyman
( and granted that wasn't a tough job )

The owners "gave in" on less practice time, less hitting, longer time off in March and April - but they didn't give in on the $$$ side which is why they are billionaires in the first place.

NFLPA was overmatched and now these players will have to adjust their expectations AND they'll be looking for somebody to blame. I suspect DeMo will go from hero to zero real quick...rhetoric only goes so far and eventually money talks and bull**** walks

I agree with everything here and the only thing I would add is the NFLPA's missed opportunity of addressing how much authority that Goodell could have as Commish. It's almost as if it never even occurred to DeMaurice Smith about trying to contain Goodell's autocratic tendencies.

It is a transition period right now.

Unreasonable rookie contracts based on draft position are starting to go away.

Unreasonable FA demands are getting scoffed at as they have to sign for alot more, or alot less, than expected. A matter or perception.

Teams can now slot, do BPA, get their choices of who may/maynot fill that slot. At a reasonable price.

No more 100k nights at the club with the ladies. Teams are trying to keep their best interests invovled.

Just some are better at it than others.

Booooong.

Biggest question.

Is Henry Jay, or Silent Bob.

Why didn't chickenboy bring more coffee yet?

Is titm Jay?

Is Beef Jay?

Does Goldie still regret going to NJ?

Who, what, where, huh?

Calgon, take me away!!!

Um, the money has to go somewhere. There's not only a salary cap, but a salary floor. Teams pay their money.

It's not going to first-contract guys anymore. It's going to veterans.

This whole story seems built on anecdote of a few veterans who didn't get the contracts they were hoping for. That's not because the new CBA failed them. It's because they're not worth as much as they thought they were, on the free market.

FIrst contract players did take a huge hit. And that money was in fact redistributed to veterans.

But as always the elite players will take the lion's share and the journeymen will languish. No CBA will change that.

what I used to like about the NFL was that players could remain together for years. high school and college games - you have a 4 year window with some groups of players, more like 2 or 3 now. but the NFL was where a group of guys could possibly stay together for awhile and prove something.
this new CBA cements the 4 year window in the NFL. owners KNOW they don't have to pay big salaries to rookies for 4 years. they can pick and choose to make some of them multi-millionaires but the majority of the players are looking at 4 years of playing for a set minimum and then they'll be discarded for more of the same. a 30+ vet getting a big contract is a thing of the past. experience means nothing when I can get a replacement for 1/10th of what you want.

The money is still out there for vets, but it's not being proportioned out. Bigger contracts going to the elite players. When Joe Flacco is taking up 1/6 of the Ravens payroll, it makes sense that other vets aren't getting decent contracts.

quote:

Originally posted by packerboi:

quote:

“I think from talking to a lot of other guys . . . the players in free agency are not seeing the money that was promised by cutting down the rookie salaries when they came into the league,” free-agent defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis told SiriusXM NFL Radio on Thursday night. “[b]A lot of the big deals have been cut down, and a lot of the players who are going to be expecting big money either got cut or let go in some manner.

Talk about smoking both ends of the bong. Remember when Ced was a top 10 draft pick back in 2008 and was a recipient of one of those rookie deals he's looking to benefit from now that they've gone away? If he wants a reason he's not seeing a flood of offers 95 tackles and 12 sacks after 5 years would be a great place to start. FA's that derserve big deals are still getting them. They always will.

The cap was put in place in 1994. $34.7 million. It's $129 million this year. DeMo didn't negotiate a sound 10 year plan. But players that deserve to be paid are being paid.

My guess, the next time the CBA comes up for negotiation I could absolutely see the players make a push that no single player can count more than "X"% of a teams total cap.

quote:

Originally posted by Cheezers:
The money is still out there for vets, but it's not being proportioned out. Bigger contracts going to the elite players. When Joe Flacco is taking up 1/6 of the Ravens payroll, it makes sense that other vets aren't getting decent contracts.

If that is the problem and what is being complained about...it has nothing to do with the CBA.

If the huge rookie deals of the past are replaced with huge deals for proven, deserving, franchise type veterans...then the CBA's promise has technically been fulfilled. Whining because you didn't get one of those big contracts doesn't mean the shift from paying unproven rookies to proven veterans didn't happen.

From NFP

The whining continues....

Hey Guys, wake up and smell the coffee. Its not collusion, its called being smart

Al Davis is dead, Jones and Snyder are neutered thanks to the cap penalties and the rest of the league is learning the value of draft and develop

" *The theory that there is concerted effort by NFL teams to hold back on big free agency contracts is gaining momentum amongst players, agents and the NFLPA. There is no hard proof, but many agents are saying that is sounds like teams are reading from the same script. Players over 30 seem to be especially be targeted. As one veteran agent put it, “There is definitely something fishy going on. There are usually a few teams who make a big splash in free agency but this year it seems like everyone is working with a governor tied to their check books.”



Once again, the agents are blowing sunshine up their arses to win the players' business but can't deliver on the promises of new found riches. So they blame the teams....

quote:

Originally posted by Yuletide:
Um, the money has to go somewhere. There's not only a salary cap, but a salary floor. Teams pay their money.

It's not going to first-contract guys anymore. It's going to veterans.

This whole story seems built on anecdote of a few veterans who didn't get the contracts they were hoping for. That's not because the new CBA failed them. It's because they're not worth as much as they thought they were, on the free market.

FIrst contract players did take a huge hit. And that money was in fact redistributed to veterans.

But as always the elite players will take the lion's share and the journeymen will languish. No CBA will change that.

II RC there's no floor this season, which is why so much is not being spent. It's a cumulative over the next four years that the 89% has to be spent.

Before, if a team was rebuilding, they'd generally have a couple of short-term, expensive vets to meet the floor until they could get a younger guy in to replace him to make sure they met the floor. This year they don't have to. They can wait and sign young guys to bigger second deals to keep them on the roster and meet the floor while keeping them from wanting to be free agents where something goofy can happen.

Like Cavetoad said (nice avatar, by the way), the CBA is coming into it's second year, thus only it's second year of the new rookie salary cap. Outside of the top picks, it really didn't change how much money rookies get. And on top of countless other overvalued first contracts from the previous (roughly) five years still on the books, only an idiot would expect teams to be swimming in cash just one year after the rookie salary cap was implemented.

Keeping the salary cap flat from last season probably is another big reason GMs aren't going on shopping sprees.

GMs may also be getting smarter with their money and taking a page from the great Ted Thompson.

IMO, its working closer to reality ...

1) Star players are getting paid in their prime

2) Rookies need to show something before they really get paid

3) questionable Vets are not getting ridiculous contracts

quote:

Originally posted by trump:
IMO, its working closer to reality ...

1) Star players are getting paid in their prime

2) Rookies need to show something before they really get paid

3) questionable Vets are not getting ridiculous contracts

It's the way it shakes out, and one that the NFL/Owners figured out. The Players want:

1) Star Players to get paid in their prime
2) Rookies to get paid handsomely.
3) Questionable vets to get ridiculous contracts.

I don't think the owners can quite believe how badly they whipped the players during the negotiations.

The union screwed the majority of the players. They are so caught up in the superstars that they didn't help the rest. They should of raised the minimum as high as possible so that anybody that played 1 year would of made good money. All they care about is the 1% getting $100 million dollar deals because it makes the news. Most of the players last less than 3 years. They are the ones the union should of tried to help. The superstars will play 7-10 years and make more money in endorsements than most will make playing the game.

quote:

Originally posted by Cavetoad:
It is a transition period right now.

Unreasonable rookie contracts based on draft position are starting to go away.

Unreasonable FA demands are getting scoffed at as they have to sign for alot more, or alot less, than expected. A matter or perception.

Teams can now slot, do BPA, get their choices of who may/maynot fill that slot. At a reasonable price.

No more 100k nights at the club with the ladies. Teams are trying to keep their best interests invovled.

Just some are better at it than others.

Booooong.

Yup...

Your post inspired some thoughts, Dale; I wondered if each player pays the same amount in dues or was it based on a percentage of income, which led to a search, which led to....mass confusion.

The most recent info was I saw was related to the last lock-out/strike; players at that time reportedly paid $10K/year, and the NFLPA was increasing that to $15K/year to build up their strike fund. I've got to assume it went back to pre-strike levels with the newest CBA, but couldn't confirm it.
Of course, with lawyers involved, there were many 'adjustments' to dues. These were better explained in this LA Times article. Although it is dated 1990, it gives a good insight on what the real motivation for the NFLPA (players licensing their names, etc. to the union) was/is.
The licensing "offsets" the amount a player pays in dues, and the union was striving for a 100% offset to dues, so...who the hell knows what everybody actually pays?

Perhaps those with better search skills **cough* titmfatied **cough** packerboi can add some real info, but I suspect the licensing still plays a large a role as ever, and the players must be happy with the arrangement. Even 10+ years later.

And essential players never reach free agency. ARod won't and neither will Raji. But no big bucks for someone who isn't irreplaceable. John Kuhn is at risk, as he doesn't have a special skill set. Crab tree, his tatts and tweets are all gone because the Packers think they can replace him, younger and cheaper.

Like the idea of a max salary, which I think the NBA has. Not sure how that would work with 50+ player.

From Agent Jack Bechta at NFP:

"Draft picks are more valuable than ever!"

"Okay, I will say it since nobody will.
The owners scored big with the new CBA when it pertains to the value of a draft pick today. It also seems that rosters have been mysteriously purged of players over thirty years old and/or making over five million a year, to make room for draft picks and undrafted free agents (aka cheaper players).
One GM told me last week that he has less than forty-eight players on his roster, he will cut some more vets after the draft, and he is depending on a lot of young guys to make his team.
So lets do the math: with 90 guys going to camp, 53 will make the roster, another 8 will make the practice squad and an average of 10 or more will be put on PUP (physically unable to perform) or injured reserve and about ten vets will be released.
Therefore, some twenty or so young players can make his team in some capacity. He said they will have some growing pains early but it will pay off in the next couple of years. The fact is that if a good player can play for eight to ten years, half of it will most likely be spent under his rookie deal. The days of 2nd round picks having 4-year deals and 3rd round picks only having 3 year deals are long gone. This is a good year to be an undrafted free agent and/or late round pick. They just have to stay healthy to make it to that second contract."

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The rest of the NFL (and the CBA changes) are coming around to the notion of draft & develop. Meanwhile the media still fans the flames of discontent around the league when teams don't sign expensive free agents in March...

.

Well, all TT's picks have been paid BIG BUCKS. The all make more that the magical 65K mark.