GB isn't in cap trouble, they haven't sat idle in FA or the trade market in the past because we couldn't afford to make big movies. When you draft poorly overall, which we have, FA's have to be part of the equation unless you're trying to rebuild and fix cap problems. Gute looked at our roster and had to pick and choose which overpriced vets needed to remain and where the gaps were that couldn't be filled in the draft. It couldn't be anticipated that an Aaron Rodgers led offense would be so stagnant...it's beyond just a stale scheme, Rodgers has missed an inordinate amount of throws for him. I don't blame them for filling gaps with guys like Mo Wilkerson and Graham, even at their cost. Those looked like bargains before the season and easily helped GB look like a contender. There will be hard decisions in March, but I think Gute sees the same things most of us see whereas TT seemed to want to stand pat and gamble on things improving on their own.
Reupping this.
Unrestricted Free Agents.
CM3, Cobb, Wilkerson, M. Lewis, L. Kendricks, B. Bell, House, Breeland, Pleasant, I. Campbell, Ryan
Restricted Free Agents.
Allison, Brice
There is literally no one on this list that is a must resign.
There is no one on this list that anyone else will pay big money for. CM3, Cobb, and Wilkerson will get 2 years and 10-15 million from somebody. Maybe Breeland gets a small deal. But this is not an impressive list.
Digger, I like your points on the GM especially with the thought that TT kind of was passive and relied totally on his draft and develop philosophy. That is great as long at it works but when it doesn't that is when you have a thin roster. The thing that gives me hope is that Gute has shown that he is at least willing to try and make things work. I do think if for once this team can stay healthy there is enough young talent there to get things going.
MichiganPacker2 posted:Reupping this.
Unrestricted Free Agents.
CM3, Cobb, Wilkerson, M. Lewis, L. Kendricks, B. Bell, House, Breeland, Pleasant, I. Campbell, Ryan
Restricted Free Agents.
Allison, Brice
There is literally no one on this list that is a must resign.
There is no one on this list that anyone else will pay big money for. CM3, Cobb, and Wilkerson will get 2 years and 10-15 million from somebody. Maybe Breeland gets a small deal. But this is not an impressive list.
CM3 is borderline and back only if he takes a huge pay cut. Cobb is gone or restructured; Kumerow takes that position. Wilkerson is gone; tough to come back from torn Achilles as a big man, especially when you push that weight off the legs on every play. M. Lewis, Kendricks are gone; keep Tonyan and bring in a draftee and free agent. Bell is gone; my mama could block better from the grave. House is out the door for the second time. I. Campbell... who? Ryan gets a small deal but at no risk to team. Breeland and Pleasant will stay with small deals.
G-Mo is borderline; ESB and MVS have been pretty good as rookies with Moore in waiting if he learns how to catch, but G-Mo adds depth and a veteran presence; a reasonable offer and GB matches. Brice is gone unless someone makes him a tiny offer; then GB may match and kick the tires for another year.
Would not surprise me to see: Bulaga gone -- either he calls it a career or GB cuts him as can't stay healthy. Something done with Perry -- injury settlement or cut and take the hit? Tramon either switched to safety full time or gone.
I can see Guttergoots remaking the roster in his image now that he's had a chance to look at the team from his new office. He's got to find a coach, someone who can teach and inspire; he's got to determine Pettine's fate (I hope he stays); and he has to determine if this year was an anomaly for Rodgers or the start of a trend. That's a tall order...
I don't know if they are true starters but I like S Campbell and CB Breeland for depth. Especially with King being injury prone. I say cut your losses with Jimmy Graham experiment too.
Wilkerson or Breeland are 2 on that list that would be worth signing. Maybe Pleasant, Campbell, and GMO for low cost depth.
Watched Clay a bunch today. His days as an impactful OLB are way behind him.
Fandame posted:MichiganPacker2 posted:Reupping this.
Unrestricted Free Agents.
CM3, Cobb, Wilkerson, M. Lewis, L. Kendricks, B. Bell, House, Breeland, Pleasant, I. Campbell, Ryan
Restricted Free Agents.
Allison, Brice
There is literally no one on this list that is a must resign.
There is no one on this list that anyone else will pay big money for. CM3, Cobb, and Wilkerson will get 2 years and 10-15 million from somebody. Maybe Breeland gets a small deal. But this is not an impressive list.
CM3 is borderline and back only if he takes a huge pay cut. Cobb is gone or restructured; Kumerow takes that position. Wilkerson is gone; tough to come back from torn Achilles as a big man, especially when you push that weight off the legs on every play. M. Lewis, Kendricks are gone; keep Tonyan and bring in a draftee and free agent. Bell is gone; my mama could block better from the grave. House is out the door for the second time. I. Campbell... who? Ryan gets a small deal but at no risk to team. Breeland and Pleasant will stay with small deals.
G-Mo is borderline; ESB and MVS have been pretty good as rookies with Moore in waiting if he learns how to catch, but G-Mo adds depth and a veteran presence; a reasonable offer and GB matches. Brice is gone unless someone makes him a tiny offer; then GB may match and kick the tires for another year.
Would not surprise me to see: Bulaga gone -- either he calls it a career or GB cuts him as can't stay healthy. Something done with Perry -- injury settlement or cut and take the hit? Tramon either switched to safety full time or gone.
I can see Guttergoots remaking the roster in his image now that he's had a chance to look at the team from his new office. He's got to find a coach, someone who can teach and inspire; he's got to determine Pettine's fate (I hope he stays); and he has to determine if this year was an anomaly for Rodgers or the start of a trend. That's a tall order...
I agree that CM3 and Cobb are probably gone after this year. I love what Clay has given us but he really isn't the same guy. Someone will way over pay for him because of his name. Wouldn't shock me to see him go to Cleveland where his dad played.
Cobb? he has given us some great memories but you cannot pay him big money anymore because he just cannot stay healthy.
Perry? I am not sure they can cut bait with him right now. I could be wrong but I think he dead money hit will be at least 10M. Do I want them to? yes because like Cobb, Glass Perry can't stay healthy.
I think Gute is going to be just fine. He now has a season to look at things and now it is time for round two of his changes. The most obvious thing is making sure he hits a home run on the coach selection and this draft may be one of the most important this team has ever faced. I haven't fully drank the Gute Kool Aid yet but I do like his aggressive style.
AR sure seemed to be lobbying to retain Cobb, but he's likely good as gone. Prime candidate to replace him right now would appear to be ESB.
michiganjoe posted:AR sure seemed to be lobbying to retain Cobb, but he's likely good as gone. Prime candidate to replace him right now would appear to be ESB.
They need a slot guy that can stay healthy. The new rules where you can't hit WRs hard over the middle anymore have made guys like Cobb much more valuable. The Packers haven't had a slot type guy other than Cobb this decade. They haven't had a great TE since Finley got hurt. They hardly ever design plays to hit RBs on secondary routes out of the backfield. The lack of a threat over the middle or on dump offs kills them. The great offensive teams all thrive on that - the Saints (Kimara), Rams (Gurley), Patriots (Gronk and James White), Steelers, etc. all get into favorable down and distance situations by using those guys. We throw dump downs only after Rodgers has scanned 4 vertical routes for 6 seconds and then throws to a RB standing still who has leaked out of the backfield. There seems to be very few plays designed to get someone like Aaron Jones isolated on a LB after the vertical routes clear the area within 10 yards of the LOS.
MichiganPacker2 posted:Reupping this.
Unrestricted Free Agents.
CM3, Cobb, Wilkerson, M. Lewis, L. Kendricks, B. Bell, House, Breeland, Pleasant, I. Campbell, Ryan
Restricted Free Agents.
Allison, Brice
There is literally no one on this list that is a must resign.
There is no one on this list that anyone else will pay big money for. CM3, Cobb, and Wilkerson will get 2 years and 10-15 million from somebody. Maybe Breeland gets a small deal. But this is not an impressive list.
Exactly. I'd give Wilkerson and Breeland respectable short term prove it contracts as they've already shown there's something there. Just those two mid-tier type signings would really help to devote resources to LB or Oline.
Pleasant at least showed up yesterday. Still, he's depth at best. I don't think Allison is going anywhere. Even if he's only a 3rd he was showing promise and the shotgun receivers need to prove they can stick over him.
You know who's not done playing with the Packers is Tyler Lancaster. What a nice find. Guy could be one of those cheap finds that becomes a nice part of the rotation. To borrow a saying from a poster on another site "It's like finding $20 in the pocket of a coat you haven't worn for a while".
He looks like he has a shot, the next two weeks are prove it games for a lot of guys. Not only in GB, hope our scouts are making a list and checking it twice.
Yup, time to start watching a lot of other games as teams that are out of it play the young guys. Maybe Gutter can pick up some finds/depth/camp bodies from the cuts of other teams.
I liked what I saw from Campbell. He actually wrapped up a guy he was tackling, once. The other DBs seemed confused by that.
I honestly think Spriggs is playing his way back onto the roster. He is actually coming around.
G play is the investment. I think the Packers stand pat at OT minus Bulaga and look to improve inside.
Why cant Kumerow be a slot guy? Route running is his forte...
I’d like to see Spriggs get an offseason to bulk up more and move to LG like Mike Wahle. Not saying he will end up like Wahle, but just like his entire career you hate to give up on such a physical talent without trying everything.
Grave Digger posted:I’d like to see Spriggs get an offseason to bulk up more and move to LG like Mike Wahle. Not saying he will end up like Wahle, but just like his entire career you hate to give up on such a physical talent without trying everything.
Let's quit wasting roster spots for years on end. He's weak, he's not physical, slow to react and out of position. Kind of slowing DEs making a beeline for Rodgers doesn't constitute acceptable growth after THREE seasons.
Music City posted:I honestly think Spriggs is playing his way back onto the roster. He is actually coming around.
G play is the investment. I think the Packers stand pat at OT minus Bulaga and look to improve inside.
Henry posted:Grave Digger posted:I’d like to see Spriggs get an offseason to bulk up more and move to LG like Mike Wahle. Not saying he will end up like Wahle, but just like his entire career you hate to give up on such a physical talent without trying everything.
Let's quit wasting roster spots for years on end. He's weak, he's not physical, slow to react and out of position. Kind of slowing DEs making a beeline for Rodgers doesn't constitute acceptable growth after THREE seasons.
His measurable physical skill and the investment they’ve made in him means they should see him through his contract IMO. If finally clicks like Fackrell then our RT problems are completely solved or if he can add some mass and learn to play LG (and again if it clicks) then we have a starting caliber player. Everything is there except the mental game.
Also to me the problem isn’t having Spriggs on the roster, developmental players still deserve spots, the problem is counting on him to be your TOP backup. Going into the season with Spriggs, Murphy, and McCray as your primary OL depth was ridiculous.
2nd round pick, 4th year developmental player.
Oh, and I also reserve judgment on Fackrell. He has a fluke game and then does nothing, as usual, doesn't make him a breakthrough player. But then I think we agree he's okay depth at this point.
Think about this. There is ZERO depth at Oline and LB along with questionable starters. Christ. Thanks Ball and Uncle Ted slipping a gear and Murphy not giving a ****.
Fackrell has 8.5 sacks with 10 total TFL and he’s been very disciplined in run D. He’s had more than a fluke game. We do agree he’s just good depth at this point, but something clicked with him. He had 5 sacks and 7 total TFLs in his first two years combined and then exceeds that total in just 14 games. All I’m saying is that if Spriggs mental game ever matches his H/W/S then we could have a starting caliber player IMO. Everything he’s done so far shows it’s all mental IMO. It’s worth a look to see if can get his shit together one last time.
4th year. Carl Bradford syndrome. Let's leave that with McVince. If for some reason, 4th year pusscake patty cake Spriggs takes a leap to "depth in a pinch" good, McVince should be refired 10 times.
Going on 4 years. We've seen scrubs play more meaningful ball in less time on the squad. He doesn't even play like Jane, he plays like Jane's 6 year old niece. Getting flat out trucked is not mental. Getting absolutely beat off the snap is not mental. If he spent the last 3 years in the weight room, which is the same excuse used for every flop, he should've just hit the juice hard core and hope to end up like Mandarich.
Do they really have time to piss away a roster spot for "development" on a guy about to hit retirement?
McCray and Spriggs should've just ****ing disappeared and I hope they are cut as soon as Philbardi is shown the door.
Tough to decide if Spriggs or Thornton was the worst draft pick by TT.
So there you go.
I kept hoping Spriggs would turn the corner, too, but I've seen this story way too many times not to know how it turns out.
He won't be any different than Sherrod, Barclay, Newhouse, or any of the other guys who have flopped on the OL in recent years.
Whatever happens with him I just don't want to see in GB. It's likely the team could find a street FA or UFDA that's as good as he is. His 'bar' is more like a speed bump.
Those three guys are light years ahead of where Spriggs is right now. That's how bad Spriggs is.
Henry posted:Do they really have time to piss away a roster spot for "development" on a guy about to hit retirement?
Yeah, but he shouldn’t be your top depth. The failing isn’t gambling on developmental guys at the bottom of the roster, it’s gambling that developmental guys can be counted on right away. TT didn’t fail because he took chances with Carl Bradford or Jason Spriggs, it’s that when starters got injured those guys had to step in as key players.
I would take Sherrod off that list. His broken leg was bad, and then his ankle went kaput as well. Kid never got healthy. In that regard, a bad pick; but not as bad as the Celtics’ Len Bias pick. 😢
Spriggs was inactive today. Is that why the O-Line was a modicum better today?
Grave Digger posted:Henry posted:Do they really have time to piss away a roster spot for "development" on a guy about to hit retirement?
Yeah, but he shouldn’t be your top depth. The failing isn’t gambling on developmental guys at the bottom of the roster, it’s gambling that developmental guys can be counted on right away. TT didn’t fail because he took chances with Carl Bradford or Jason Spriggs, it’s that when starters got injured those guys had to step in as key players.
I don't disagree with he shouldn't be the top of the depth chart but even if he was at the bottom of the roster for 3 years and with these kinds of results, not sure why you would put more time into this guy other than a blown 2nd rounder. Admit the mistake and move on.
I can remember when Spriggs played in the Senior Bowl & the reports were lauding how much he improved under the tutelage of NFL coaches during that week. The implication was clear.....NFL people fell in love with his athleticism & put the shortcomings he displayed on tape on a lack of quality coaching. They forgot a very elemental concept ...."the best predictor of the future is the past". There is a reason that a player isn't as good as his physical measurables say he should be....and it usually is something about the player themselves. Josh Jones is another guy who fits this description.
That's the thing I remember, the plays soft rap. Seems to be correct.
I was as excited as anybody thinking a couple of seasons of NFL coaching would make a player out of him. Obviously a challenge too big for Cogbot. j
Josh Jones either seems hesitant or lost. Not sure what's going on.
They should go back to their high school tape to really gauge those tendencies, I mean since we’re reaching into the past to predict the future. How good players are in college is generally how good they will be in the NFL. The rap on Spriggs wasn’t that he was soft it was that 1) he needed to improve his play strength and 2) improve his technique to reduce instances of oversetting and allowing inside moves.
As the late Pete Newell used to say about basketball players with "low BB IQ" .....Jones does not appear to be a "friend of the game"
There's no doubt Spriggs would be gone by now if he was a 5th or 6th round pick. You would think with the change at GM there wouldn't be this need to justify the pick. I mean they had no qualms about getting rid of Dix and Rollins.
He's a body on the O-Line which they needed when Bulaga was out.
There’s a lot of free agent players they could sign if all they needed was a body fill a spot. I agree he’d be gone if he wasn’t a second rounder we traded up for. He likely won’t make it out of TC next year, I’m skeptical he will turn the corner, but if there’s a chance he does then it’s worth the gamble. If they cut him in March then it means they have no faith it will click.