Plenty of questions about what Eliot Wolf will do now that the Packers hired Brian Gutekunst as GM. Here’s the reaction from his Hall of Fame father, former Packers GM Ron Wolf: “At least he had the opportunity to interview for it,” Ron Wolf told ESPN.com "Obviously the people up there don't think he's worthy, or they would have hired him. End of discussion" https://t.co/TnxOR2G5qX
— Rob Demovsky (@RobDemovsky) January 8, 2018
Difficult at 35 to hand over the reins of an entire organization, especially one as unique as GB with no owner. Grasshopper -- and his dad -- need about five more years of patience!
Solid move...on a side note, what was the obsession with Schneider? I know he's well thought as a talent evaluator and aggressive in FA but I haven't been impressed with all his free agent moves (Harvin, Graham, Richardson, etc) and Seattle seems to be close to needing a major overhaul with CAP issues, etc). I wonder what this board would have thought of Ted if he was putting Seattle's offensive line on the field week in and week out?
Yeah, who'd want Schneider? All he did was get to 2 Super Bowls and win 1 in 7 years.
Did the elder Wolf seem a bit snarky in his response?
I mean no disrespect to Ron Wolf and praise the good he did for the Packers. But. He did leave us with mike Sherman as GM/HC. Correct?
The Crusher posted:I wonder what this board would have thought of Ted if he was putting Seattle's offensive line on the field week in and week out?
The board would probably feel the same way it did about Packers defense week in and week out for the past 7 years.
Some would blame the players, some would blame injuries, some would blame the coaches (the Seattle Offensive Coordinator Bevell is as hated by Seahawk fans as Dom was hated here), and some would blame the GM for a lack of talent.
RW also failed to provide Favre with enough weapons, which at least he admitted. Complacency set in once they won that SB, same as with TT. I thought TT needed to be gone several years ago, better late than never, darn shame though.
It's simply the head coach recognizing he needs new tape on defense.
The offense is a Bugatti Veyron with Rodgers driving it. Not a problem.
When the defensive players stopped listening to the DC because he's calling garbage that the players KNOW won't work - Square peg round hole - DC has players playing in positions that aren't suited for them - not putting players in the best position to succeed....The head coach needs to recognize this. Why could we as fans see this crap & the head coach couldn't?
Dom Capers had a job at a minimum 3 years too long. The entire league knew what they were running at all times.
It's not about loyalty....it's about doing the right thing for the organization & McCarthy wasn't doing that. If he didn't get rid of Capers then MM himself loses his HC position.
I hate the fact we needed to sacrifice a season to finally get some new tape on defense. Such as life under a long term, highly successful head coach.
Not a particularly gracious statement from RW. Report out there that Dorsey is going to try and bring Eliot to Cleveland.
excalibur posted:RW also failed to provide Favre with enough weapons, which at least he admitted. Complacency set in once they won that SB, same as with TT. I thought TT needed to be gone several years ago, better late than never, darn shame though.
How did they become complacent? They lost the Super Bowl the next year because Gabe Wilkins was a pussy, and we were forced to play with a third stringer trying to stop Horse Face and Terrell Davis. The next year, we got screwed in the NFC Wild Card when Jerry Rice clearly fumbled with :39 left in the game. It was 27-23 Packers, and had the correct call been made, Packers take possession, and a knee, and advance in the playoffs. After the loss, Holmgren left Green Bay, and we were saddled with Ray Rhodes as head coach.
They didn't become complacent. They lost their skipper, and once Holmgren left, Favre had nobody to reign him in.
I like the GM move. Gutekunst gives us the best of both worlds. I think the Packers retain Ball, and I'm hoping Wolf stays. Give him a promotion, more money, find a DC, and call it a day. Let the DC and Philbin start working with McCarthy to fill the coaching vacancies, and get ready for the draft.
I think the Packers need to spend their first pick on a pass rusher. Being in the top half of the first round means we might be able to move up a bit, and grab a premier guy. Next, I'd build up the offensive line. We have some great pieces in Bakhtiari and Linsley; time to say au revoir to Bryan Bulaga. Love the guy, but he's just too injury prone. Then, receiver and tight end are needed upgrades. I think we have enough talent in the secondary to build with, as I'm more inclined to believe it was the scheme that failed. Randall came on strong in the second half, and I love King's upside. And I really like the pieces in the front seven. Daniels and Clark will anchor one of the league's up-and-coming lines. An edge pass rusher, together with a healthy Matthews and Biegel will take a lot of pressure off the pass coverage.
The only way this off season could get better is if the Saints whipped the Viqueens next weekend!
lambeausouth posted:excalibur posted:RW also failed to provide Favre with enough weapons, which at least he admitted. Complacency set in once they won that SB, same as with TT. I thought TT needed to be gone several years ago, better late than never, darn shame though.
How did they become complacent? They lost the Super Bowl the next year because Gabe Wilkins was a pussy, and we were forced to play with a third stringer trying to stop Horse Face and Terrell Davis. The next year, we got screwed in the NFC Wild Card when Jerry Rice clearly fumbled with :39 left in the game. It was 27-23 Packers, and had the correct call been made, Packers take possession, and a knee, and advance in the playoffs. After the loss, Holmgren left Green Bay, and we were saddled with Ray Rhodes as head coach.
They didn't become complacent. They lost their skipper, and once Holmgren left, Favre had nobody to reign him in.
Very few comment on the at Rice fumble, instead praise the owens catch. Indeed we were robbed but the great Jerry Rice couldn't be faulted for losing a playoff game in crunch time.
We may need Wolf to depart. Too many chefs in the kitchen may not be the best arrangement. I did think age was a significant issue once I looked into it.
bigdoggyjude posted:lambeausouth posted:excalibur posted:RW also failed to provide Favre with enough weapons, which at least he admitted. Complacency set in once they won that SB, same as with TT. I thought TT needed to be gone several years ago, better late than never, darn shame though.
How did they become complacent? They lost the Super Bowl the next year because Gabe Wilkins was a pussy, and we were forced to play with a third stringer trying to stop Horse Face and Terrell Davis. The next year, we got screwed in the NFC Wild Card when Jerry Rice clearly fumbled with :39 left in the game. It was 27-23 Packers, and had the correct call been made, Packers take possession, and a knee, and advance in the playoffs. After the loss, Holmgren left Green Bay, and we were saddled with Ray Rhodes as head coach.
They didn't become complacent. They lost their skipper, and once Holmgren left, Favre had nobody to reign him in.
Very few comment on the at Rice fumble, instead praise the owens catch. Indeed we were robbed but the great Jerry Rice couldn't be faulted for losing a playoff game in crunch time.
That catch by Owens just made me sick.....I actually felt kinda bad for him, he didn't catch a pass the whole game, THEN he decides to haul one in, and wins the damn game. Still mad as hell over that. Ugh......
mrtundra posted:packerboi posted:Spriggs was diagnosed with a dislocated knee cap and is not expected to miss any time in training camp. He avoided a major injury
The Packers are high on Justin McCray who played well and believe that's is there next RG
So that leaves RT. Murphy, Spriggs or ____ until Bulaga is back (expected to be PUP'd)
What was Spriggs' position in college? Wasn't he a guard? If he was a guard, let him heal his knee, ride the pine backing up McCray. Still, Gute has to go O Line in the draft to find Bulaga's long term replacement as well as an OG we can count on.
Left tackle. He's built like one and TT traded up for him. College LTs (at least a couple of seasons) are mostly what TT drafts: Colledge, Bulaga, Sitton, Lang, Bakhtiari, Tretter, etc. Spriggs and Murphy were both LTs, at Indiana and Stanford, respectively.
They're usually the most athletic linemen on their team. Spriggs is still kind of skinny and needs a mental overhaul and Murphy has only average foot speed so it will be interesting to see if the team looks to go forward with them or grabs another OT in the first half of the draft. It's not a good year for O-lineman, at least thus far.
I think at some point they will draft an OT and possibly an OG as well. One thing is going to be interesting is if the new GM will be like trader Ted and will trade out constantly.
that's a shame wolf sr feels that way. i believe the best opportunity for his kid is still in gb, in a few years, get some more experience first hand, then take over. makes total sense to me. eliot is still really young.
Goldie posted:That catch by Owens just made me sick.....I actually felt kinda bad for him…
Protect the franchise and go O Line early in the draft. Then again, maybe Gute will be more willing than TT was to find someone in FA ?
I would take a gamble that the talent on D isn't as much of an issue as it seems to be. Hopefully the new DC will be able to come up with a defensive scheme that will maximize what talent we already have on D next season ? It would be great to have a top ten defense and all but with Rodgers as our QB we really don't need to go all in on defense IMO. Wait and see I guess.
Every GM misses on draft picks, it’s part of the crapshoot. TT’s biggest mistakes?
1. Not replacing Nick Collins with a veteran FA.
2. Not replacing Cullen Jenkins at all.
3. Resigning AJ Hawk and not actually investing in a real ILB either by draft or FA.
4. Not replacing Finley with a veteran FA.
5. Not investing in a pass rusher opposite CM3 when Walden left and Perry needed time to convert.
We could have won more championships, even with Dom Capers, if TT had made those moves. I hope Gute learns from those mistakes.
Yeah, my first priority would be a solidified offensive line. For longevity sake, I think Rodgers needs to be put in a position of not having to escape opposing payers.
I am concerned with receiver tho.
bigdoggyjude posted:I mean no disrespect to Ron Wolf and praise the good he did for the Packers. But. He did leave us with mike Sherman as GM/HC. Correct?
And sandwiched between Holmgren and Sherman was Ray Rhodes. But, at least he nipped that decision in the bud, highly unlike what has been done with Capers.
Poor drafting, especially on the defensive side of the ball, was a bigger issue than TT's failure to adequately use FA, IMO. Seems to have done better of late but there's a stretch where the defensive drafting was very poor and it was evident on the field. Jerron McMillian went from a guy the organization envisioned opposite Burnett to a guy they felt couldn't even play in the league in less than a year.
McMillan was a 4th round pick. No one is banking on a 4th rounder becoming quality starter...hoping, but not counting on it. They were counting on Burnett becoming Nick Collins and anyone else becoming Charlie Peprah. The draft is a crapshoot, everyone misses all the time. For every quality pick in each round there are 15 who can’t play. The problem isn’t missing in the draft, it’s making sure you have a contingency plan in place via free agency if you are dangerously thin at a key position like FS for example. There were plenty of options to sign a good veteran Safety, you can sign a Vet AND draft a future starter.
Grave Digger posted:Every GM misses on draft picks, it’s part of the crapshoot. TT’s biggest mistakes?
1. Not replacing Nick Collins with a veteran FA.
2. Not replacing Cullen Jenkins at all.
3. Resigning AJ Hawk and not actually investing in a real ILB either by draft or FA.
4. Not replacing Finley with a veteran FA.
5. Not investing in a pass rusher opposite CM3 when Walden left and Perry needed time to convert.
We could have won more championships, even with Dom Capers, if TT had made those moves. I hope Gute learns from those mistakes.
Really agree with he point about misses; everybody misses RW could not draft in rd 1! I whined from the day it was announced that C Jenkins wasn't coming back- that sneaky inside pass rush and deceptive run stuffing was sorely missed in 2011 and not adequately replaced until Daniels was drafted!
I hope fans can move on from Hyde and Heyward. I liked them both but in the GB scheme too many slow smart guys get you routed. Now if they had traded Clinton-dix for a CB I would have loved to have Hyde- but GB wasn't paying 6 million a year for a part time DB
I like Gutey as GM. EW is too young and Gutekunst is more experienced in that role. Of course daddy wants his son to succeed and disappointed he was not given the job. I think we made a decent decision and like others I am ready to move on.
Next let’s Fill out the staff and move on with a quality draft and free agency moves.
Grave Digger posted:No one is banking on a 4th rounder becoming quality starter...hoping, but not counting on it.
Really? I hope that is not the mindset of any GM or organization.
michiganjoe posted:Poor drafting, especially on the defensive side of the ball, was a bigger issue than TT's failure to adequately use FA, IMO. Seems to have done better of late but there's a stretch where the defensive drafting was very poor and it was evident on the field. Jerron McMillian went from a guy the organization envisioned opposite Burnett to a guy they felt couldn't even play in the league in less than a year.
That's true, but that also supports the point that many TT critics made: the draft is a crap shoot; you can't count on it as the sole method of building your team, because even the best have a large number of misses. On the other hand, when you acquire a player via free agency, it is more of a known commodity.
It is somewhat ironic that the franchise experienced a rebirth largely as a result of a key free agent acquisition (Reggie White) and a trade (Brett Favre), chose to generally avoid such means of building the roster over the past decade.
I'm extremely pleased with the Gutekunst hire. Keeping an experienced talent evaluator at the top seems like a smart move, and but all accounts, Gutekunst has been impressing people across the league for several years. I understand Wolf's disappointment, but his age is a concern.
It sounds like Gute was one of the favorites for the Houston position. The fact that Murphy acted so quickly, before he lost Gute, tells me that the perceived gap between Gute and Wolf was probably a bit bigger than people are suggesting. If it was a coin flip between the two, I don't think Murphy would have been so quick to act on Gute.
I'll also give Murphy credit. Ball was the early favorite by all accounts, and a close friend of TT and Murphy. But Murphy was able to put his personal preferences aside, evaluate all of his options, and choose the man he believes is best for the organization. That's not always easy.
Grave Digger posted:McMillan was a 4th round pick. No one is banking on a 4th rounder becoming quality starter...hoping, but not counting on it.
Then you admit, finally, that TT is a fool for putting so much stock into the comp pick equation? Only looking at FA's who won't count against him in hopes of that ever elusive end of the 4th round, basically 5th, comp pick that "no one is banking on becoming a starter." All this while players who many teams are banking on becoming starters are being signed to FA deals across the league.
Glad you finally see the light. "Chicks in the barn" is a good strategy in baseball where you have a farm system, not in the NFL where every man on your roster needs to be able to play now.
Grave Digger posted:Every GM misses on draft picks, it’s part of the crapshoot. TT’s biggest mistakes?
1. Not replacing Nick Collins with a veteran FA.
2. Not replacing Cullen Jenkins at all.
3. Resigning AJ Hawk and not actually investing in a real ILB either by draft or FA.
4. Not replacing Finley with a veteran FA.
5. Not investing in a pass rusher opposite CM3 when Walden left and Perry needed time to convert.
We could have won more championships, even with Dom Capers, if TT had made those moves. I hope Gute learns from those mistakes.
Good post. Missing on several ILB picks over the years really hurt. That affected the ability to cover over the middle of the field and makes your pass rush look even worse - since the dumpoffs to RBs and short throws to the TE are seemingly always open and are easy reads for any QB.
Going without a decent TE for 3-4 years was a big problem.
You understand not being able to afford to/or wanting to spend 12-15 million a year for a dominant pass rusher or not getting one drafting after the 20th pick in the first round. The ILB, S, and TE position cost a lot less money and veterans at those positions would have made a huge difference. Just look at TE salaries. A really good TE like Rudolph or Greg Olsen costs a lot less than a top 10 WR or OT.
NFL's highest paid TEs (average salary per year):
1. Seahawks TE Jimmy Graham: $10 million
2. Chiefs TE Travis Kelce: $9.4 million
3. Redskins TE Jordan Reed: $9.4 million
4. Patriots TE Rob Gronkowski: $9 million
5. Eagles TE Zach Ertz: $8.5 million
6. Bills TE Charles Clay: $7.6 million
7. Panthers TE Greg Olsen: $7.5 million
8. Patriots TE Dwayne Allen: $7.4 million
9. Vikings TE Kyle Rudolph: $7.3 million
10. Saints TE Coby Fleener: $7.2 million
- Source: overthecap.com
I'm very happy with the Gutekunst hire. I wanted Dorsey or Schneider only because of their proven track records. Have not read a single thing from any Packer writer as to why Murphy didn't go after Dorsey, who was available for last few months and only took the Cleveland job a month ago. Bob McGinn wrote last year that he thought Dorsey was the very best person to succeed Thompson. So that remains a mystery. Schneider took himself out of the running for what appeared to be his dream job when he signed his extension that didn't include the out clause he had in his original contract. Murphy couldn't then pry him away, trade enough to get him. So after those two, I think Gutekunst was best choice. Certainly better than Ball. Better to have Gutekunst as a personnel guy in charge, keep Ball doing what he does best. And Gutekunst older, more experienced than Wolf. Gutekunst learned from Wolf and Thompson same way Schneider, Dorsey and McKenzie did, and they've all been successful, so no reason to think he won't be as well. Plus naming Gutekunst over Ball and Wolf made McCarthy happy, which is a significant bonus.
Not getting anywhere the same level of coverage, but I absolutely love the return of Philbin. Don't know what Edgar Bennett did last few years as Offensive Coordinator, but know that when Philbin was in that position our offense was prolific. I know McCarthy and Rodgers both think the world of Philbin. So that's a major upgrade I believe.
Now I hope McCarthy can hire Vic Fangio or a similarly successful, veteran Defensive Coordinator. We so badly need a whole new shot in the arm on that side of the ball. Keeping my fingers crossed that'll be a reality in just a few days.
chickenboy posted:
You’re wrong. 4th rounders are 4th rounders for a reason. If you’re counting on Jerron McMillan to come in immediately be a quality starter then you’ve made a bad mistake, which they did and it was. 1st rounds should be expecting to contribute immediately, 2nd rounders pretty early, 3rd rounders, should contribute some but you don’t count on it. Any round past that you should NOT expect to come in and start. Maybe you HOPE they contribute early, you expect them to make a jump in year 2, and expect they are starting or at least contributing significantly by year 3. Dean Lowry is a great example of how you should expect a day 3 player should perform.
BrainDed posted:Then you admit, finally, that TT is a fool for putting so much stock into the comp pick equation? Only looking at FA's who won't count against him in hopes of that ever elusive end of the 4th round, basically 5th, comp pick that "no one is banking on becoming a starter." All this while players who many teams are banking on becoming starters are being signed to FA deals across the league.
Glad you finally see the light. "Chicks in the barn" is a good strategy in baseball where you have a farm system, not in the NFL where every man on your roster needs to be able to play now.
I admit nothing. He’s not a fool and I believe in draft/develop, he’s just made some mistakes as all GMs do. Picking McMillan wasn’t a mistake at the time, but counting on him to be a starter was a mistake.
If you're drafting well middle-rounders should contribute at a minimum and McMillian wasn't even capable of that. Not saying TT shouldn't have utilized FA more but I view his poor drafting as a bigger issue.
It's been announced that Brian Gutekunst, Russ Ball and Mike McCarthy will all be reporting directly to Mark Murphy.
Not a fan of that structure. You're hamstringing Gute.
Grave Digger posted:chickenboy posted:You’re wrong. 4th rounders are 4th rounders for a reason. If you’re counting on Jerron McMillan to come in immediately be a quality starter then you’ve made a bad mistake, which they did and it was. 1st rounds should be expecting to contribute immediately, 2nd rounders pretty early, 3rd rounders, should contribute some but you don’t count on it. Any round past that you should NOT expect to come in and start. Maybe you HOPE they contribute early, you expect them to make a jump in year 2, and expect they are starting or at least contributing significantly by year 3. Dean Lowry is a great example of how you should expect a day 3 player should perform.
You’re wrong. 4th rounders are 4th rounders for a reason
And Starr was a 17th rounder for a reason...sad!