Pakrz posted:
I would be happy with several of these guys but I still lean towards Schneider first and Wolf second. Wolf intrigues me quite a bit.
Honest question: What has Wolf ever shown publicly except being kind of a cocky douche? It seems a lot of people really put a lot of weight in to his surname.
YooperPackfan posted:Brainwashed Boris posted:I was thinking Reggie to satisfy Rooney Rule but they probably need Raider permission.
I like what the Rooney Rule stands for but I can't stand that they need to interview a person of color to "satisfy" it.
I don't know what the answer is but I wish we could get past all of it.
I don’t think it’s a person of color necessarily but a minority in general, but yeah I know exactly what you’re saying
They could interview me if that’s the case. I would gladly take a call from1265! :-)
Silverstein reporting it's likely Russ Ball.
If that's the case, I'm really underwhelmed. A cap manager type who's main attribute seems to be that he is TT's choice to replace him. Expect more of the same approach. I hope that if this is the case that Ball surprises me, but I want a football guy, not an accountant.
If it's Ball....they better not give him 100% control like TT had. We're in trouble if that happens.
I'm really nervous Murphy is going to screw this up big time.
"The accountant" is a very good description of Ball.
Very disappointed if it is Ball. The only question Murphy needs to answer is: this team is lacking talent at many spots---which candidate can fix that?. A guy with no personnel background, Russ Ball, surely does not seem to be the answer. And, with Highsmith gone and Wolf and Guetekenst surely to follow if they don't get the job, who is the accountant going to hire to make his picks?
packerboi posted:Hmm...
Michael Rodney
@PackersNotes
According to @RapSheet, one external candidate the Packers could be interested in is former Bills GM Doug Whaley. Coincidence or not, he was a player at Pitt at the same time Mike McCarthy coached there.
Dear God NO!!!!
If it's Ball, maybe they make him the GM to go with his EVP of Football Admin/Player Finance title, and then promote Wolf to EVP of Football Operations.
Ball is 58, so Wolf takes over the whole deal in 5-7 years...
If Ball is the GM and they don't figure a way to promote Wolf and/or Gutenkunst, they likely lose both within the year. Murphy is on record (in 2016) as saying he had a plan for succession when the time came. If he actually does, it has to include keeping one or both of the Football Directors.
Hungry5 posted:If it's Ball, maybe they make him the GM to go with his EVP of Football Admin/Player Finance title, and then promote Wolf to EVP of Football Operations.
Ball is 58, so Wolf takes over the whole deal in 5-7 years...
If Ball is the GM and they don't figure a way to promote Wolf and/or Gutenkunst, they likely lose both within the year. Murphy is on record (in 2016) as saying he had a plan for succession when the time came. If he actually does, it has to include keeping one or both of the Football Directors.
Per Wilde: "A league source said if Ball were to get the job, Wolf and Gutekunst would likely leave the organization — despite an ESPN report saying that the front office would undergo a reshuffling which would end with new titles for various people."
Ball should replace Murphy. Schneider should become the GM. Wolf can replace Schneider in Seattle and cut his teeth for a while.
The sooner Murphy is removed from the equation the odds of everything coming up roses increase exponentially
If Murphy’s going to blow it, he might as well go all in and hire theeeee old gunslinger.
Would it really shock anybody if the Green Bay Status Quo's picked Russ-fukking-Ball to succeed TT?
Sounds like TT and Murphy possibly had this stellar plan brewing for awhile. What a joke...
Brett Favre. QB Coach.
Ball feels underwhelming in lots of ways. They need an improvement in talent evaluation and don’t see how this helps that.
If they hire Ball, expect him to trade all picks in the first six rounds for the entire seventh round to save money. I want a football guy first and foremost!
League sources... we all know what that means.
That time of year when coaches' agents (and some coaches) change their names to "League Sources"..
— Andrew Brandt (@AndrewBrandt) December 31, 2017
Can you imagine sacrificing Wolf and Gutekunst for a guy who's spent his entire NFL career as a contract negotiator?
If they don't promote Gutie or Wolf, why did you keep them around so long??
The whole thing is just stoooopid!
You groom them for years, keep them around with promotion after promotion so they can't go to another team, then don't hand them the keys to the car when the time arrives? So they leave for another team?!?!?
It doesn't make any sense.
Let's just wait until everything is final. Then, Murph will have some 'splainin' to do.
If you’re Eliot Wolf or Brian Gutekunst or any of the other Green Bay Packers general manager candidates not named Russ Ball, you probably feel like the game is rigged.
There is a preponderance of opinion inside and outside the organization that president Mark Murphy is going through the motions to replace Ted Thompson and that a decision was made months ago between Murphy and Thompson that Ball would be the next general manager.
It certainly has that feel and would help to explain the apparent lack of any outreach to Dorsey. Murphy needs to nail this one and it's a pretty risky move to go with someone without a scouting background.
How many GM's around the NFL had/have no personnel experience? Almost none..
Of the 31 GMs in the league right now, 25 have extensive backgrounds in personnel. Of the 6 who don't, Jerry Jones and Mike Brown are owners and John Elway and John Lynch are former players. That leaves Howie Roseman and Mickey Loomis.
— Michael Rodney (@PackersNotes) January 3, 2018
Roseman started as a cap guy, but he did spend 2 years in player personnel before being named GM in Philly. Loomis has no background in scouting. What's the point? Mark Murphy should hire a football guy to run a football team.
— Michael Rodney (@PackersNotes) January 3, 2018
Risky?
No I'd call it career suicide.
I only see real bad things if Ball is made GM with 100% control like TT had. That's a huge mistake on Murphy's part if he does it.
Man it feels weird to have major doubts about Packer organizational decisions but I have reached that point with Murphy after 2+ decades of confidence…
I think the Packers will always operate at a huge disadvantage because of their ownership structure and market size. Despite the salary cap, I believe there are rafts of soft money in play with many clubs. With open books and low value local marketing opportunities the Packers have to play everything by the official rules. No deep pocket behind them means they must conserve their reserves at all costs. That's why I think they lean toward the fiscal conservatism that rankles so many.
When a team signs a quality free agent they're making a decision to lose one or more players down the road that they could have kept.
If Ball does wind up as GM I hope one of the other, more personnel oriented guys gets the job of picking the players to target and going to Ball with "Can we afford him?" I'm not sure that's too different from the way TT operated.
packerboi posted:How many GM's around the NFL had/have no personnel experience? Almost none..
Of the 31 GMs in the league right now, 25 have extensive backgrounds in personnel. Of the 6 who don't, Jerry Jones and Mike Brown are owners and John Elway and John Lynch are former players. That leaves Howie Roseman and Mickey Loomis.
— Michael Rodney (@PackersNotes) January 3, 2018Roseman started as a cap guy, but he did spend 2 years in player personnel before being named GM in Philly. Loomis has no background in scouting. What's the point? Mark Murphy should hire a football guy to run a football team.
— Michael Rodney (@PackersNotes) January 3, 2018
Roseman is looking like one of the better GMs in the NFL right now. I'm not sure that only having two years in personnel would have made him much more qualified than Ball. Roseman had a total of 7 years of experience, all with the Eagles, and was only 34 years old before becoming the GM. Ball has a total of 29 years of experience in the NFL and has spent time with the Packers, Saints, Redskins, Vikings and Chiefs. I think Wolf and Gutekunst (and throw Highsmith in here even though he's with the Browns now) have only worked for the Packers and maybe Murphy wants someone in there who has seen some different perspectives in other organizations.
And Mickey Loomis' resume doesn't exactly suck as there is a Super Bowl victory on there.
My favorite would be Brian Gutekunst but I have no problem with Ball the more I think about it. Everything I've read about him indicates he's a smart guy with a great demeanor and is a good collaborator. Yes, he would probably be a complete failure if he pulled a Sherman, walked into the job and immediately thought he was a scout and went on to micro-manage everything. Information out there just gives the impression that wouldn't be the case. Seems like a guy who would let the coaches coach, the scouts scout and would only start sticking his nose into other people's business only when it was necessary.
Ian Rapoport
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
The #Packers are interviewing Director of Football Operations Eliot Wolf for their now-vacant GM job today, source said. One of three strong in-house candidates.
PackerJoe posted:packerboi posted:How many GM's around the NFL had/have no personnel experience? Almost none..
Of the 31 GMs in the league right now, 25 have extensive backgrounds in personnel. Of the 6 who don't, Jerry Jones and Mike Brown are owners and John Elway and John Lynch are former players. That leaves Howie Roseman and Mickey Loomis.
— Michael Rodney (@PackersNotes) January 3, 2018Roseman started as a cap guy, but he did spend 2 years in player personnel before being named GM in Philly. Loomis has no background in scouting. What's the point? Mark Murphy should hire a football guy to run a football team.
— Michael Rodney (@PackersNotes) January 3, 2018Yes, he would probably be a complete failure if he pulled a Sherman, walked into the job and immediately thought he was a scout and went on to micro-manage everything.
Is that what Sherman did or was he just put in a role(s) he couldn't handle?
Re: Sherman
Yes and Yes.
Unless someone can prove it otherwise, it's hard to know what Dorsey was responsible for in KC. My recollection is that Reid had final say over things.
Also, Russ Ball has a Master's degree in Human Performance.
Let that sink in.
ilcuqui posted:Re: Sherman
Yes and Yes.
A bit of a Fight Club/ Mr. Robot scenario you say?
ilcuqui posted:Re: Sherman
Yes and Yes.
Agreed. Sherman was in a role he couldn't handle, but he believed he could handle it. He believed it to the point that he stopped listening to the people around him and started doing crazy things like drafting B.J. Sander in the 3rd round.
As great as Bob Harlan was in the same role Mark Murphy has now, handing over the full football operations over to Sherman was a massive blunder. I get why he did it... if they had hired another GM in 2001 who didn't want Sherman as his head coach, there would have been 4 different head coaches in a 4 year span. To prevent that from happening, he gave Sherman, a guy who was just 3 years removed from being nothing more than a TEs coach, absolute complete control of the entire football side of the operation. Pretty silly in hindsight, but I can see why Harlan did it.
I thought that was Wolf's decision? Anyway, I appreciate reading the views on Sherman's micromanaging but I don't recall reading that it kinda seems out of character but I guess I know him as well as any of you.
I imagine Ron Wolf is doing his most to make sure Eliot gets the gig. Not sure how much influence Ron or Bob Harlan have upstairs anymore but would think they would be pushing that way.
I know MM said they won't do a "co-GM" role, but I wonder if Ball will add TT's
"Executive VP of Football Operations" role to his current title and Wolf will get the General Manager role? That would be a promotion for Wolf, but Ball would be in charge of the overall football operations/administration/player finance side.
Side note: I didn't realize Grey Ruegamer was still with the organization. He's the Director of Player Engagement. Guy really can do everything.
Unless Russ Ball is going to hire a sabermetrics expert to advise him on what players to spend money on in a cap-friendly manner, he's a mistake.
Managing the salary cap is overvalued. Look at the 2017 cap room leaders.
In the top 15, 4 teams made the playoffs. You don't want a financial idiot as your GM, but you don't need Warren Buffett either. Hire a personnel guy, who can surround himself with accountants.
Not to minimize the importance of managing a salary cap... but I think the days of teams going into "cap hell" are mostly gone due to the cap rising at a pretty good clip each year. We need a personnel guy and a leader to run the organization. Guys like Ball are important, but that doesn't mean they should be running a football organization.
Damn check out the Jags with $75 million.
Kirk Cousins in Jax?
If attendance and ratings keep dipping, a cap manager will become a lot more important in the near future. That said, I like Ball in his current role and not as GM. Word is that he's really good at it and has a lot of respect around the league and among agents. I don't want him to overreach and make the organization a Peter Principle victim. Better to hang onto Eliot and/or Gutekunst to run things.
Ball would probably be a great fit if he takes the CEO and not COO approach. Basically give Gutekunst and/or Wolf the personnel duties and be the tiebreaker in a disagreement while he focuses on the business side of the job.
I don't think it's just managing the cap though, it's the negotiation and contract structure that I think is Ball's real value. Teams don't get bogged down with cap problems anymore really, but not all players have identical contracts. The places where teams get killed is the dead money or bloated contracts on the back end. GB hasn't had to cut players because of their cap number in many years, I can't think of the last guy that happened with...maybe Woodson in 2013?
Also involved? Why? If Murphy was truly "casting a wide net", I wouldn't be involving MM in the decision process. MM won't want anyone perceived as a threat to firing him coming close to being hired.
This just smells more and more like smoke and mirrors with this whole search.
McCarthy says he'll interview "both external and internal candidates," and that will begin in near future. He also says he's involved in #Packers search for new GM.
— Ryan Wood (@ByRyanWood) January 4, 2018
