I don't know. AR's singularity makes a lot of trash smell rosy.
I think a lot of what I’m about to say and what has been said in this thread could also go under the “I’m an AR Fan First” thread, but all of this makes me remember about a conversation me and ChilliJon used to have when we were neighbors in Wi. (Unfortunately he’s now in CA and I’m in FL). What we used to agree on in our opinion was that the difference between AR and Favre was that Rodgers understood his place in Packer history whereas Favre was about himself. Now I know that this goes against popular opinion especially now, but it’s still my opinion that Rodgers sees the big picture in all of this. It’s difficult to take the Vax/Unvaxxed shit out of the discussion this year, but when I listen to Rodgers I hear thought provoking and genuine feedback that whether I agree or disagree with, I respect. It’s though provoking and it’s not scripted. I respect that. I think he gets his place in Packers history, understands the uniqueness in playing for this franchise, and doesn’t want to jeopardize his place in its history over trivial things. Maybe I’m a naive fan, but all I have is my opinion on what I hear.
What this translates to in the context of this thread is that if I’m right in my assertion, and all the communication bullshit in the off-season has been mended, then it’s an effin no brainer. You keep the iconic player who agree or disagree is all about the team and this franchise. I think we’re beyond having to choose between either of them which is why I think this thread is irrelevant now, but if I had a butter knife to my balls that’s what I’d choose.
Edit: And he’s really fucking good on the field still and has shown no signs of decline.
People around here must have some real f'ed up nightmares.
@Sufferinginmn posted:Btw...I don't know of any scenario where we re-sign devondre, Douglas, Adam's, Tonyan, Alexander next year. Douglas and devondre would be idiots to accept any less than 10+ million a year.
Why does everyone think Douglas is worth that kind of coin? He has been on 5 teams in 4 years. So he has 8-10 good games with the Packers but there is a lot of tape where he didn't do shit. $10 million, sure maybe over 3 years.
I think the tension of Rodgers or Gute for me is that it illustrates how easy it is to overlook the value of a long term, effective GM in the nfl. I think it's a given in today's league that not having an elite qb makes it tough to win, but, as much as we've had hof qbs for the last 30 years, we've had excellent gm's during that period. No Favre without wolf and no Rodgers without tt. I think gute is becoming respected in this league as one of the good ones. It is imperative that we keep him here.
@Chongo posted:Coming off an ACL it’s not happening. Luckily this year’s TE class is generational…there will be a Travis Kelce type guy taken…maybe a couple. In most year’s Iowa’s LaPorta would be the first or 2nd TE off the board. He might not even be the 10th guy taken this year.
I'm gonna go way out on a limb and say LaPorta isn't getting drafted at all this year.
@Henry posted:Douglas and Campbell could play on 8-8 teams without Rodgers. Makes sense.
Again, he thought so much of them he gave them one year contracts.
You just absolutely refuse to see anything but negativity.
32 General Managers are in the NFL. 31 of them never gave those guys a second look... but one did. It was an excellent decision, not once, but twice.
And you want to poop on it.
@ammo posted:Why does everyone think Douglas is worth that kind of coin? He has been on 5 teams in 4 years. So he has 8-10 good games with the Packers but there is a lot of tape where he didn't do shit. $10 million, sure maybe over 3 years.
Because he's a boundary CB. Someone will cough up the coin just because of the position even though it was only one year of solid play.
@PackerHawk posted:I know March isn't that far away but I'm gonna go ahead and enjoy January and the first couple weeks of February and let March happen when it happens.
Wait.
You live in Iowa and you’re going to enjoy January and February?
Liar.
BTW…best weather months in Florida. 😀
@Pakrz posted:You just absolutely refuse to see anything but negativity.
32 General Managers are in the NFL. 31 of them never gave those guys a second look... but one did. It was an excellent decision, not once, but twice.
And you want to poop on it.
Yeah, that's been my MO for all the years we've been here.
Call a spade a spade.
Good for Glop for picking them up. Nothing but good there but don't tell me it was some kind of commitment to the position. Especially after hearing Glorp say after the draft, "we TRIED to upgrade the ILB but it just didn't happen".
Well, he TRIED.
Some guys are going to be bit players, just the way it is. I'm sure that's what Glurp saw in Campbell, value.
So you'll all just have to pardon my saltiness. The insanity of the everyday world and subservience to the messaging is too much to swallow. But that's the insane real world and this is sports fandom. Being a homer dope is what we as fans do.
That said, Galorp and the dumbfuckery of MurphyBallz has done some titanically stupid shit. Luckily it hasn't imploded the team and maybe it'll make it better in the long run.
@Henry posted:Because he's a boundary CB. Someone will cough up the coin just because of the position even though it was only one year of solid play.
No, he's had a good half year. Lets see what happens in the playoffs. Packers have had a lot of "good players" leave for big bucks and then don't do shit. Most GMs never learn. Good thing we have Gute.
Douglas isn’t going to get a massive contract. Why? Up until his 2 month stint with GB he was a proven nobody. I mean, he’s a great story and all, but if the Packers or anyone else gave him a huge contract they are idiots.
That’s a hell of a lot different than Jaire Alexander. He’s been a top 3 cover corner in the league and much like a premium LT he will expect and get a sizable contract extension. And it won’t be with the Packers if Rodgers is around.
I guess Campbell could always pull a Bobby Portis and take a big hometown discount but I don’t see that either. While he won’t get top 5 LB money, he’s going to demand a lot more than he’s earning now and GBP will not be able to afford him either.
Tonyan? It’s possible. But at stated earlier he’s not Kittle or Kelce and honestly you can find a replacement in the draft pretty easily.
Z won’t be back nor should he be the way he milked his injury yet still continued to get paid as a top pass rusher. His commitment to the team isn’t quite Kyrie Irving like but it’s similar without him being a complete headcase.
Assuming Rodgers is back I think Adams will be as well. They will have to get creative with how his deal is extended, but Adams can still get paid and put up monster numbers if 12 is around. If 12 bounces, there’s no reason for Adams to stick around.
As for the FO, it’s really interesting how inept and stupid they look now when you consider the collective shit shows happening with the Giants, Jags, Jets, Loins, Texans, Bears, or basically half the franchises in the NFL. Personally, I think a lot of the criticism toward Gute is misplaced and while I still think Murphy is a putz and Ball needs a different gig would you rather have this group or have to deal with the Danny Boy’s or McCasky’s or Mara’s? Talk about titanic level dumbfuckery and that’s been going on for years and will continue.
@Tschmack posted:Z won’t be back nor should he be the way he milked his injury yet still continued to get paid as a top pass rusher. His commitment to the team isn’t quite Kyrie Irving like but it’s similar without him being a complete headcase.
You clearly have more information than I do
or this is a special kind of talking out of your ass
It’s basically season long load management for Z.
Gets pissed off at team for how they handled his contract situation opening the door for his eventual release, gets hurt, sends out cryptic messages about his return, yet stays out, then magically feels better and is ready to play in the postseason to showcase his skills for his next employer.
I expect him to play awesome because he needs the next contract. But do I think he was milking it? Hell yes I do. But in the end, if he helps them get a ring so be it. Teams jerk players around all the time, he’s just flipping the script on the Packers.
Not sure if he and J Clowney have the same agent but they should.
Tschmack, I pretty much agree with everything that you wrote. However, I do think that someone will give Douglas a pretty sizable contract. While I'd love to see the Pack get him back, one of those dumb front offices listed above will surely pay way above market value for his services.
I’m just curious how you knew I had a gun to my head.
At this point in time, I'll take Gute. Rodgers' time in GB is coming to it's end. He called this season "The Last Dance," did he not? I think he'd pick Gute, too.
Much tougher call if AR's career wasn't winding down and I'll go with Gutey as well.
@Blair Kiel posted:Wait.
You live in Iowa and you’re going to enjoy January and February?
Liar.
BTW…best weather months in Florida. 😀
Indoors. Mostly indoors. 
But I did just have fun clearing about 6-8" of snow this morning and I'm planning on having a blast outside for 4-5 hours on Jan 30th.
Wife got me a heated vest for Christmas. That thing is a game changer for days when it's 15° or colder. Keep that core warm and all you need to do is keep the head, feet and hands warm. It's downright... tolerable.
MurphyBallz can be replaced quite easily. We could do worse, but they’re nothing special, and we could definitely do better.
Gute is a very good evaluator of talent. He’s fairly new at this position, and had a few things to learn regarding management. But he must have some humility, which is good, and it seems he’s learned a lesson. He would be much harder to replace, but ultimately would be replaceable.
Rodgers is a once in a lifetime talent and truly irreplaceable at this point of his career. All our other players who may have to leave? Like usual, and has he’s done for so many years, Rodgers can cover up for a long as Gute doesn’t leave him high and dry on talent.
At first I was pissed at the way he was handling things right before the draft, and I do think he could have handled it better, but he was truly hurt by the way the FO was dealing with him and other players and finally expressed that resentment honestly and directly. It seems he and Gute have a good relationship now and the language Rodgers has been using appears to signal Rodgers is happy now. I think both sides learned valuable lessons in the process.
Luckily for us, it’s not an either/or situation at this point.
@ammo posted:No, he's had a good half year. Lets see what happens in the playoffs. Packers have had a lot of "good players" leave for big bucks and then don't do shit. Most GMs never learn. Good thing we have Gute.
Not sure what your bent is here. I'm stating a fact that CB is a premium position and teams will jump at even a one year wonder.
Gurp pulling a guy off a practice squad after Alexander's injury isn't going to warrant some huge contract. Like I said before, he traded for that turd Yiadom as well.
So getting warped about stating Douglas could get a good contract from another team isn't unrealistic. Nor does it make Glup a genius for grabbing a guy from a practice squad to cover for an injury.
It was stated he was worth a $10 million per year contract. I say no way based on a 1/2 year of very good play. I think he is a good player but also is not a true shut down corner ala Alexander. Maybe after 2 more years of quality play he might be worth $10 million per year, but certianly not now. That is all I'm saying.
Nobody is talking about the Packers signing Douglas. The point is because CB is a premium position some team will pony up. FFS, King got a 6 mil show me contract.
All it takes is a team believing the light switch turned on for Douglas. Also, the discussion was in comparison to Campbell. Simple fact is a CB is going to get more than an ILB.
So that's why Douglas, along with the fact the Packers have Stokes and Alexander, probably won't be a priority for the Packers to match if so inclined. Sign Campbell, Douglas will likely price himself out for the Packers needs nor should they compete for the contracts that could be thrown at Douglas. Maybe the guy re-signs because the defense works for him. Who knows.
Your discussion compared him to Campbell, not me. Go back to my 1st post. All I said was he is not worth $10 million a year as somebody posted. He's had a 1/2 of a good year. If Gute or some other GM thinks he is worth $10 million per year so be it. I just don't think he is. Time will tell what the Packers think of him after the playoffs are done.
If the Packers retain Rodgers and Adams there will not be money left for Z or Jaire or Campbell. Maybe Douglas or Tonyan, but again, would need to be at a discount. That’s the good and bad of having a guy like Rodgers. He’s going to eat up a lot of cap space.
@Sufferinginmn posted:Just been thinking about this scenario lately. If you had a gun to your head and were forced to choose between re-signing A rodgers or keeping Gute over the next four years, what would you do. Personally, I would choose Gute. Just the fact that he picked up both Douglas and DeVondre who turned out to be freaking all-pros is enough to sway my opinion, What do you all think?
I’d take the gun and shoot you in the nuts. How dare you?
@PackerHawk posted:How many potential dozens of guys can do what Gutey does?
According to Henry, just Mike Sherman.
@Sufferinginmn posted:Okay, Henry, but who would you choose....
Henry would pick your pet poodle over Gute.
@Timpranillo posted:This team is FAR closer to 4-13 than 13-4 without Rodgers.
Lose to Cincy, Lose to Arizona. Lose to SF. Lose to Cleveland. Lose to Rams.
That's 8-9 right there if they replace Rodgers with an average QB.
@Tschmack posted:If the Packers retain Rodgers and Adams there will not be money left for Z or Jaire or Campbell. Maybe Douglas or Tonyan, but again, would need to be at a discount. That’s the good and bad of having a guy like Rodgers. He’s going to eat up a lot of cap space.
You pay these guys
1. Rodgers. There's a reason teams give up multiple 1sts for guys like Stafford. You can't win without a QB.
2. Jaire. 25 year old all-pro CB.
3. Adams. I know he's on his 3rd contract, but you keep him.
You let these guys go
1. D. Campbell is a 29 year old (start of next season) LB with one good year. Let someone else overpay him.
2. R. Douglas was a journeyman CB. Let someone else overpay him.
3. Tonyan is just another guy, just like Lazard. You could plug in a bunch of other guys in that spot and they'd look just as good.
@ammo posted:It was stated he was worth a $10 million per year contract. I say no way based on a 1/2 year of very good play. I think he is a good player but also is not a true shut down corner ala Alexander. Maybe after 2 more years of quality play he might be worth $10 million per year, but certianly not now. That is all I'm saying.
If only the NFL actually worked like that. We've seen QB's get huge deals based on 4-5 games. If Douglas has a good postseason some team is going to give him more than the Packers gave King.
After reading about half of the first page of this thread, I wish i did have a gun to my head. Sheesh.
18 weeks ago, I would have taken Gute over Rodgers. As this season has played out, I have to say I’d rather keep Rodgers.
As last year’s offseason went on, I was. convinced Rodgers was so pissed off, he was going to pull a Favre and sabotage the organization. I give him credit, if he had those thoughts at some point, he wised up and chose to embrace the situation instead of rebel.
His level of play has been so incredible this year, it elevated the Pack probably 5 to 7 more wins than if Love was at QB. Gute is a good GM, but he will have a hard time replacing that if Rodgers chooses to retire or ask for a trade.
If that happens we'll find out very quickly how good Gute is. He's already drafted their next QB and no matter what we've seen so far, Love would be the starter in 2022.
As it turns out, GB will likely keep both.
#winning
With a gun to my head I will take Gute but I would hesitate. This is the ultimate chicken vs. egg discussion.
I think of it this way prior to the early 90s the Packers from office (or complete lack thereof) was an absolute shit show. The Executive board butting in too much with jokers such as Judge Parins or whatever his name was trying to run the show even if everyone knew he had no idea what the hell he was doing.
Then comes along Wolf, Harlan, TT, Gute and all the others that have stabilized this team and that is where it starts in the front office. Sure, yes I get it they found back to back HOF QBs and I think everyone 1265 would agree to get that lucky is just insane. But they also know to truly help out a QB you have to get the coaching on the team, the system that works for the QB, and acquiring the talent to help him be great.
Look no further that the dregs of the NFL in both NY teams, Texas, Jags, etc. What's the common theme there? crappy ownership with even crappier front offices for YEARS.
For me to say something about the question at hand, I need to know WHO is holding the gun.
@Ghost of Lambeau posted:For me to say something about the question at hand, I need to know WHO is holding the gun.
Jesus