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The Pack finished the 2010 regular season with 15 guys on IR.

IMHO, here are the 15 Guys we don't want to see on IR this year based on performance and whether Pack has depth to replace them.

1) Aaron Rodgers. Flynn is a nice backup, but the gap between the 2 in terms of ability is large.

2) Clay Matthews. For the game and a half that Matthews missed last year, you could see the difference when he wasn't out there.

3) B.J. Raji. Maybe not the 3rd best player on the team, but there is no other D-Lineman on the roster that can duplicate what he does.

4) Tramon Williams. At least the Pack is deep at corner which might overcome his loss. But the strength of the team was having 3 good to great CBs. They'd be short a great one.

5) Chad Clifton. Not as important as the top 4, and it's entirely possible the Pack can completely overcome his loss with the young guys. LT is probably 2nd most important position on a pass-first team like the Pack. Maybe Bulaga or Sherrod could fill in for Clifton at LT, but like I say, I really hope we don't have to find out as they are unproven.

6) Josh Sitton. Pack doesn't seem particularly deep at guard. Maybe you move Bulaga into his spot. Would be a huge loss.

7) Charles Woodson. Slightly on the downside, but still a hugely important guy on the team.

8) Greg Jennings. The best WR on the team at the end of last year. Pretty fair dropoff from him to the other WRs with Driver getting up in age. Jordy getting better, but not in Jennings' class.

9) Jermichael Finley. Was on IR last year and his loss was overcome. But it took 3 games for the team to adjust to his loss. Pack more prepared this year if he goes down. If healthy, possibly one of the top 3 pure talents on this team.

10) Nick Collins. Really has turned into a very good safety. I might be underestimating his loss if it happens. Hoping a guy like Morgan Burnett might be able to make up for it if Burnett has made a full recovery. The fact that I am putting him #10 shows just how talented this Packer team really is.

11) Bryan Bulaga. His versatility on the O-Line would be missed. Not a great player yet, but may start heading that way in his sophomore season.

12) Mike Neal. Was on IR last year. Has to stay healthy to overcome likely loss of Cullen Jenkins. Flashed impressive skills when he played. We need this guy to stay healthy.

13) Scott Wells. Solid but not great player, stabilizes the C position. Would have to go to inexperienced guys to replace him.

14) Sam Shields. Having him as a 3rd corner makes a very good defense into a special one.

15) Ryan Pickett. Would not be on this list if Johnny Jolly wasn't such an idiot. Because we likely won't have Jolly, we need another solid year from Pickett. D-Line is probably Pack's most questionable position as without Jenkins and possibly Jolly, we can't afford any season ending injuries.

Kind of amazing that talented guys like Driver, J. Nelson, R. Grant, Starks, Hawk, Bishop don't make the list, but it's because of depth that they don't make it, not necessarily talent. If Grant goes down, we have Starks to replace him (or the other way around). If Hawk or Bishop go down, a healthy Brandon Chillar could pick up most of the slack.
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quote:
Originally posted by fightphoe93:

Kind of amazing that talented guys like Driver, J. Nelson, R. Grant, Starks, Hawk, Bishop don't make the list, but it's because of depth that they don't make it, not necessarily talent. If Grant goes down, we have Starks to replace him (or the other way around). If Hawk or Bishop go down, a healthy Brandon Chillar could pick up most of the slack.


Nice problem to have though, isn't it?
quote:
Originally posted by Coach:
Because, of course, losing 15 players to IR defines "luck".



Of course it does. How many teams year to year pull this off (even with the best GM as you'd say on your side). It is definitely luck. Street FAs coming in and playing like solid every day guys. That's luck, no matter how good your scouting dept. is.
quote:
Originally posted by Diggr14:
quote:
Originally posted by Coach:
Because, of course, losing 15 players to IR defines "luck".



Of course it does. How many teams year to year pull this off (even with the best GM as you'd say on your side). It is definitely luck. Street FAs coming in and playing like solid every day guys. That's luck, no matter how good your scouting dept. is.


The only luck involved there is "bad".

Street FA's coming in and producing is a combination of solid scouting (finding the right guys), and good coaching (getting those guys up to speed quickly).

Try again.
quote:
Originally posted by Goalline:
I agree with Diggr. TT has built a team so deep in talent that the team can lose any player on this team and win. Truly remarkable.


I agree with this to an extent. The GBP are a very deep team. Except for the QB, I wouldn't feel like we couldn't make the playoffs without any one player. I don't think Matt Flynn would lead us to the playoffs mostly because we havent seen a big enough sample size.
quote:
Originally posted by Cold Mark:
Nice list! Swap Bishop for Bulaga and I think you nailed it.


Bishop was a better player last year than Bulaga, but I think an ILB can be replaced easier than a Tackle and I'm comfortable with Chillar as the top backup if he's healthy considering he was a starter earlier in the year. The 1st round pick Sherrod might be able to fill in for Bulaga, but considering he'll have missed all OTAs and minicamps (sometimes these can help a rookie catch up to the vets) due to the lockout cancelling them, he's going to be way behind going into camp.

I don't disagree with you though that strictly on performance, Bishop was better than Bulaga. I just think the Pack might be able to replace Bishop more easily with veteran depth. There's no doubt I could be dead wrong on that if Sherrod turns out to be as good or better than advertised or Tauscher can make a complete comeback.
Great thread.

I'd move Finley down to start. They obviously proved last year what they can accomplish without him. If he stays healthy this year, though, that offense could look like a video game.

I'd also move Shields up. The difference between AZ putting 51 on GB and what we say this past year exists between Giordano and Peprah to be sure, but Bush and Shields even more. He really was the piece that put that secondary over the top. Scary thing there is he's just scratching the surface of what he can be.

I also think Bishop is a bit underrated here. I always thought Barnett was a good player, but that whole defense changed when Bishop became a regular, and Hawk suddenly got better as well. Bishop is a young and relatively cheap difference maker.

Otherwise, it's a great list, and as I said, a great thread.
Like the list!

It's interesting for sure because when CMIII and Woodson were not in the lineup the D took a hit. Think the Redskins game and the second half of the Superbowl.

We really don't know the impact of guys like Raji and Tramon and Bishop because they didn't get hurt but IMO I think it may have a slightly lesser impact.

All I know is that the one guy that they absolutely cannot lose is Rodgers. As good as Flynn looked against New England he's not Rodgers and this is probably a .500 team at best without #12. Rodgers probably adds 3-5 wins to the roster just by himself.
1 & 2. Rodgers and CMIII: Pretty obvious, no explanation necessary.
3. Woodson: Yeah, not the cover CB that Tramon is, but I'm convinced that no defensive player in the league does as much as Woodson does for a defense. Tackles in the run game, covers WR's and TE's, blitzes as well as any DB in the league, forces fumbles at a high rate, gets interceptions and scores TD's. Woodson so isn't simply a CB; he's the most versatile defensive player in the league. This defense wasn't the same in the Super Bowl without him.
4. Raji: Sorry Diggr, but without Raji, this defense crumbles. No 3-4 defense succeeds without a stud NT. you can throw whatever stat you want about the run game being average, but this defense was great and it starts with Raji.
5. Williams: I think they could lose Williams and get by, but without Williams, Woodson can't do the things he does to make this defense special.
6. Collins: Underrated player at a position of last defense. Yeah he screws up occasionally, but there arent many safeties in the league with his range and durability. Not sure who replaces him in the lineup if he goes down.
7-10. Sitton, Wells, Clifton and Bulaga: maybe I'm just paranoid, but injuries on the OL starts a game of musical chairs that puts Rodgers at increased risk of injury. Drafting Sherrod and the development of McDonald and Newhouse change this, but all 3 of those guys are unproven. Protect the franchise at all cost.
11. Jennings: while his production could be replaced, he showed that he has a knack for being clutch (see the Super Bowl). Every QB needs a guy that he can trust to get open and catch the ball. He's also a great locker room guy.
12 & 13: Hawk and Bishop: these two are tackling machines that make each other better. Either one goes down, I wouldn't be surprised to see the others play go down.
14 & 15. Pickett and Neal: only reason I have them this low is that Capers likes to rotate them often so an injury to one isn't as devastating as some other players that are on the field every down. That, and Trgovac seems to be one of the best at getting young DE's ready to play.
quote:
Originally posted by Diggr14:
The GBP are a very deep team. Except for the QB, I wouldn't feel like we couldn't make the playoffs without any one player. I don't think Matt Flynn would lead us to the playoffs mostly because we havent seen a big enough sample size.


It was only one game, but he showed enough to see what he is capable of.

quote:
Originally posted by Slobknocker:
Flynn vs Pats, every throw
quote:
As good as Flynn looked against New England he's not Rodgers and this is probably a .500 team at best without #12.


I think after an adjustment period Flynn could get us a winning record and squeaked into the playoffs....if everyone else is fairly healthy. Hell, this team has enough talent and depth that if AR was the only guy out, I'd still give the team a shot at reaching the SB.
quote:
Originally posted by Slobknocker:
Flynn vs Pats, every throw


Interesting to see and remember how fast and often NE was in Flynn's face. I'd expect that this year he would not throw so often into double coverage (he did that quite a bit in this game) and he'd get rid of it just a split second sooner. I would still be hopeful for a good season with Flynn. He would be a lot better than looking down the bench and seeing, oh, Vince Young, for example. Wink

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