2013-2014 Bucks

I would let Jennings go (or, hopefully, a sign and trade).....and try to resign Ellis to a non-max deal. I would try to get Ellis for 4 yrs, $40 million range. Redick...take back with reasonable salary.

Problem for Milwaukee is even with tons of cap room, Milwaukee isnt a prime destination for FA's. They really cant hope for much help in this draft, because of position and this being a relatively poor draft.

Losing Harris hurts. Cant figure out why you would trade him....for Redick and a hopeful 8th seed against Miami.

Ilyasova cannot defend 3s. It would be foolish to play him there.

Ellis is the one guy you may want to invest in, but only as a bridge to a player not currently on the roster. Jennings has played himself out of MKE in the last 2 months. Sign and trade is best case scenario- but rFA tender? Risky- you don't want to be stuck with this G lineup next year. If a team calls the Bucks' bluff, your f-Ed.

Hammond has a lot of work to do. It's disappointing, because it seemed like they were on to sole thing the first half of the season. But the big thing is to somehow, someway land a player in the draft. As unlikely as that is, it has to happen if there is any hope.

Here is a little on the trade from a blogger- I thought it was pretty well written:

http://www.brewhoop.com/2013/4...redick-tobias-harris

quote:

Originally posted by Music City:
Ellis is the one guy you may want to invest in,

Why would you want to blow that kind of money on John Salmons?

from MC's link

Say the team had taken off after bringing Redick on board--wouldn't public opinion be much more positive?

well no ****

Because he's not John Salmons. Ellis is an explosive player, just not a star. Like I said-he's a bridge. To what? Dont know. He's not on the team yet.

What I like he write up for this reason- I think he accurately identifies what Hammond is doing. He's making them long and athletic. And about Harris, he's playing a 4 in Orlando- he'd never play that in MKE. So really, with the direction the team is going, Harris didn't actually fit. That makes sense to me.

But hey still need a true 3. Ilyasova is a bench player. A good one, but not a starter IMO. If he starts, it's because you have a hole in your roster.

But keep getting younger, more athletic, and taller. Need to get lucky though... Land a star in the draft this year.

you're kidding yourself if you think he isn't Salmons.

let him be someone else's burden.

You aren't going to make playoff run paying either of these guys max money. Ideally, sign and trade them and build around Sanders and other guys that can play defense.

Ellis is a much better player than Salmons. The problem is he's not really a PG and he's smaller and doesn't shoot well for a SG. He also doesn't defend well.

He can give you 15-20 every night so he's a good scorer but as he's currently paid it's a terrible value. If they could resign him at 6-7MM a year I would make that deal but some team is going to throw big money at him.

Redick is a little more interesting. He's not the athlete that Ellis is but he he can stretch the defense with his shooting and he's a better defender. But similar to Ellis, he'll never be a star. That makes you wonder if he's worth 8-10MM per year that he is likely to command.

What concerns me is that they will end up throwing big money at Jennings because he's always been a Buck and he teases us at times with flashes of brilliance. That being said, I wouldn't resign the guy either. His attitude sucks, he doesn't pass the ball enough as a PG, and he's an erratic shooter. He also doesn't play much D at all.

It's probably a moot point. He's opting out to go somewhere else anyway.

There are some other alternatives at the guard positions if they don't bring back Jennings or Ellis or Redick.

Devis Harris, Kyle Lowry, Jeff Teague (restricted) and Darren Collison (restricted) would be good options at the point.

At the shooting guard spot, guys like OJ Mayo, Tony Allen, Wayne Ellington (restricted) and Corey Brewer could be options. Personally, I would consider JJ Redick as well.

Note I did not mention guys like Chris Paul or Ben Gordon or Manu Ginobili in this group - nor Monta Ellis. The Bucks IMO should not pursue those guys since they will demand big money.

You know, that's a good point. You'd have to overpay for Mayo, but I like the idea of Harris because I'm a homer, and I have always liked Brewer. If there's a SF to invest in, Brewer is a guy to invest in. He's a very good defender, and his offensive game has finally developed. Pair him with Reddick in a resigning and maybe you have something.

You still need a PG, and while my homerism wants Harris, I worry about all the games he's been missing. If the rumors at trade deadline turn out to be true, Dallas likes Jennings. Maybe a sign and trade?

But it's a good point- there are options out there.

You know one thing that is looming though... Who is going to be the coach? Does anyone really think that Boyland is going to be the coach?

From the "fantasy" file, Dwight Howard may not be interested in staying in LA. And while he has proven to be enigmatic (at least), he most certainly would equate to a "big splash". The Bucks would then be able to parlay Sanders in a trade for a backcourt assett.


And while the Senator is at it, with Phil Jax talking about wanting to "come back", and with the chapter closing in LA, talk him Into coming to MKE. The Senator needs to make a big splash to get the momentum going for the new Arena- bringing Howard and PhilJax to MKE would let certainly accomplish that. And think about it- they have the room. Just sayin'...

Of those guys Jeff Teague is the most interesting. People talk about Jennings but Teague is a more consistent player and he's more imposing physically than Jennings. Plus, he's a real PG. He passes the ball, plays D, and can shoot. Now, as a restricted FA the Hawks could match or exceed the offer but I would still think about it.

Count me as, "No effin way" you bring Howard in.

Sanders is light-years in value of pay-vs-play compared to Howard.

If do some of your other scenario above, you can do very well with Larry Sanders, as long as he is healthy, he is a keeper.
Or maybe, just maybe you have both of those guys because IMO, LSanders is a 4.

If you have Sanders and Howard then you can go a little smaller at the 3.
jmo.

I want nothing to do with Howard.

It's fantasy anyway- but the Bucks need to do something big to draw the fans and lay the financial foundation for the new building. You cannot keep trotting a .500 team out there to be the 8th best team In the EC and get slaughtered by MIA every year...

Jennings is at 17-57 from the field this series. Not exactly building much value for a sign and trade.

They cannot under any circumstances come back with Jennings next year. I don't know who would want him at this point, but even if they could get a draft pick for him in a sign and trade I'd be good with it.

He quit. Jennings just f-ing quit. Ellis played his ass off for most of the series. He at least knows this is his audition for his next team. Jennings quits... Good luck to anyone signing this little f-ing punk.

Ersan had a terrible game today but the reality is that Jennings and Ellis played way too selfishly in this series. When the Bucks made an effort to get the ball inside they had good success but too often those two jokers camped outside and settled for 3 point shots.

Would you rather have had

1. Andrew Bogut and Tobias Harris next year.

or

2. Monte Ellis and JJ Redick

or

3. Neither of the top two scenarios and be able to start over?

I'd vote for #1 or #3. I think the Redick trade may haunt them for a long time.

Sanders and Henderson are what you build around. Draft really young with upside and gut it out next year. Hire a coach who will play kids and take lumps in the loss column. Ellis and Jennings walk, Ellis could help an established team and Jennings is a coach killer unless he really matures. Outside of Sanders and Henderson, everyone is available in trade.

Won't happen though. Things will get pieced together again and the team will flirt with the 8th seed for a couple more years.

I think the Ellis for Bogut trade was just fine. The problem is that he never fit well with Jennings who plays a similar game (ie shoot first and ask questions later).

I also didn't really mind the Redick trade. Sure, Tobias Harris has blown up, but he's also playing the 4 spot in Orlando and I can't see benching Larry Sanders for him.

If it were me I would let Ellis and Jennings walk, and I would make an effort to resign Redick. He is a good shooter, plays respectable D, and isn't a chemistry problem. The next thing I would do is sign Jeff Teague to an offer sheet. Then can find backup guards pretty easily.

I still think you make a play to Howard. I know there's some baggage, and some questions... But he's the most available potential superstar out there. Yes, potential superstar. If he was not in the buyer beware category, he'd be a Laker for life.

So the little Milwaukee Bucks, who need to something to get the fan base going to games (and a new Arena), have a chance to land a potential superstar. It's a risk that Kohl must take- if he doesn't, there may be no Milwaukee Bucks to kick around anymore.

And to me it wouldn't be a panic move. It's opportunism. When Hammond and Dumars traded for Wallace, everyone said "malcontent, cancer, etc." When they go Billups, same deal. But it was those two moves that put the Pistons where they ended up. They acquired everyone's leftovers- Rip Hamilton was also not considered a premier player. That is what they need to do now.

So Howard is out there. LA is souring on him. Everyone else is buyer beware. You'll never get another chance to land his caliber of player. If it works out, they get a new arena and relevance. If it doesn't, they would be exactly where hey would be if they made no move- out of Milwaukee.

To me, it's time to save the franchise.

hamper the growth of the future of the franchise, keep sneaking into the 8th seed.

That isn't a plan.

I want nothing to do with Howard. He's lazy and I doubt he wants to be in Milwaukee.

If adding a superstar is the plan, there is one guy though and that's Chris Paul. Not sure he would come to Milwaukee either but I would back up the Brinks truck to get him. He also fits a real need for this team.

I do not want to stunt the growth of Henson or Sanders and Ersan and Moute are pieces to keep as well.

There are two ways to go with this team IMO:

1. You blow it up. You do not bring back any of the Jennings/Redick/Ellis combo. You bring in FAs like Devin Harris: Guys that you can sign to 2 year deals - and for not much coin. You then bring in a strong minded developmental coach - someone like Eric Musselman. Let him roll with a team that revolves around Ersan, Sanders, and Henson - plus acquired draft pick talent in the '13 draft. Going this route gives you a shot at the top tier talent in the 2014 draft class of Parker, Wiggings, Randle, Smart, Big Dog III, Andrew Harrison, Selden.

Expected win total: 24. say about the 4th worst in the NBA.



2. You bring back Ellis, Redick, and go after Josh Smith. This helps shore up "playoff excitement" and gives them the potential at winning a playoff series for the 1st time since the Big 3 era in the early 2000s. Ellis, Redick, Smith, Ersan, Sanders gives you a dynamic group that is both offensively and defensively sound. Backups Henson, LRMAM, Udoh highlight the bench.


Expected win total 48. 4th in the Eastern Conf.

Assuming that Gooden, Ersan, Udoh, Henson, Sanders, Moute, and Ish Smith return that comes to about $30MM in salaries. That gives them plenty of $$ to worth with to fix the team.

I think the Bucks are basically set at the 4/5 spots and Moute has proven he can be a solid backup at the very least so you are really looking for the 1/2/3 spots in the lineup to address.

If it were me, I'd get on the horn and try to make a move on either Darren Collison or Jeff Teague and get them signed to an offer sheet. Their teams could technically match their deals, but not sure they will. Plan B could be a guy like Devin Harris or Jose Calderon.

The next thing I'd do is call Redick's agent and see what his thoughts are about returning to Milwaukee. I don't think he's going to get a max type contract, but I do think a $7-8MM deal over 3-5 years is a real possibility. If I could get him for that price I might pull the trigger. In addition, I'd reach out to Corey Brewer and similar to Redick I'd check and see what he's looking for.

Teague or Collison would not come cheap but let's say either guy came in about $10MM per season. Then you make the move with Redick or Brewer, or perhaps try to get both. Given the cap space Milwaukee could do it. They would still need to try to find a SF but again, they have some cap space to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Diggr14:
There are two ways to go with this team IMO:

1. You blow it up. You do not bring back any of the Jennings/Redick/Ellis combo. You bring in FAs like Devin Harris: Guys that you can sign to 2 year deals - and for not much coin. You then bring in a strong minded developmental coach - someone like Eric Musselman. Let him roll with a team that revolves around Ersan, Sanders, and Henson - plus acquired draft pick talent in the '13 draft. Going this route gives you a shot at the top tier talent in the 2014 draft class of Parker, Wiggings, Randle, Smart, Big Dog III, Andrew Harrison, Selden.

Expected win total: 24. say about the 4th worst in the NBA.



2. You bring back Ellis, Redick, and go after Josh Smith. This helps shore up "playoff excitement" and gives them the potential at winning a playoff series for the 1st time since the Big 3 era in the early 2000s. Ellis, Redick, Smith, Ersan, Sanders gives you a dynamic group that is both offensively and defensively sound. Backups Henson, LRMAM, Udoh highlight the bench.


Expected win total 48. 4th in the Eastern Conf.

Go for #1, unless you are worried that a tanked season would increase the odds of the team moving to Seattle. Virtually the only way small market teams become title contenders is to hit on a superstar in the lottery and then get that guy to stay. OKC has Durant (and arguably Westbrook), San Antonio has Duncan and had Robinson, Cleveland had Lebron and got to the finals, etc.

You are hard pressed to find any NBA champion since 1980 that doesn't have one of it's top 3 players being at least a #5 overall pick or better. I think the 1978 Sonics may be the only exception since Sikma (#8) was the highest pick of their key players. Even teams that are built around slightly lower picks (Nowitzki #9 overall) and Kobe (#13) were supplemented with top 5 picks playing big roles (Dallas - Kidd (#3) and T. Chandler (#2); Lakers - Gasol (#3) and Odom (#4).

The point is you can't become a contending team drafting in the 12-15 range every year if your the Bucks. You are not going to get superstars to come to Milwaukee as free agents, so that route is out.

Look at the Bucks history when they had 50 win type teams and who played for them. You had Kareem (#1), Moncrief (#4), Terry Cummings (#2), Bob Lanier (#1), and Ray Allen (#4)as the anchors of those successful teams over the years. The year Bogut broke his arm they were headed for that level also.

why is Gooden still on the team?

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
I think the Ellis for Bogut trade was just fine. The problem is that he never fit well with Jennings who plays a similar game (ie shoot first and ask questions later).

I also didn't really mind the Redick trade. Sure, Tobias Harris has blown up, but he's also playing the 4 spot in Orlando and I can't see benching Larry Sanders for him.

If it were me I would let Ellis and Jennings walk, and I would make an effort to resign Redick. He is a good shooter, plays respectable D, and isn't a chemistry problem. The next thing I would do is sign Jeff Teague to an offer sheet. Then can find backup guards pretty easily.

I don't understand.

If you are fine with the Bogut trade and the problem with Ellis is when he is with Jennings, why would you let Ellis walk? Is Bogut that bad in your book that 1)losing Bogut was fine for 2)a player you prefer to let walk?

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
I want nothing to do with Howard. He's lazy and I doubt he wants to be in Milwaukee.

I tend to agree. There is something wrong with him.

Part of the reason for letting Ellis walk is that he's due about $12MM this year if he accepts the player option. He may choose to do just that. My reason is that he's a terrible value (at that price) and they can get by with someone else for a lot less money.

BTW- Bogut's still on the books in Golden State through next season at over $14MM. If Ellis does opt out the money savings alone was well worth making that trade.

When the Packers have Woodson big $$$, a lot was said about him and his attitude. But he became a team leader. The Bucks, with the right leadership, could do the same with Howard.

I have not seen Bogut play, but is he worth less than 12 million?

On Howard, I am kind of even thinking he is a whack job. At best, the only way I see him winning is if he plays second fiddle to someone else, such as Pippin to Jordan.

quote:

When the Packers have Woodson big $$$, a lot was said about him and his attitude.

Man, I see no way Howard in between the ears is anywhere in the same vicinity as Woodson.

Oh, there's plenty of red flags. I look at it this way though- if they don't make a move like this- hell, sign 'em both! Howard and Paul! You got $$$, spend it! They'll add up to $35M or so, right? Add those two to the pieces already here?

But the point I am making is what would happen if they don't make a move like this... and the answer is nothing.

They'll be the Seattle Bucks.

Red Flag: Dont draft another guy like this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVhs4jACVbA