I guess some people need to manage expectations. Going in to a game against currently the league's top pass offense with arguably the best WR tandem in the game and the defense without the top pass rusher and CBs 1, 2, 3  and then to lose CB 4 toward the end, getting out of there only giving up only 33 is surprising. It's never okay to give up 33, but some perspective on this is necessary.

Keeping that in mind the D got out-coached and out-played at times, the last TD was not a #5 CB issue...that was giving Sanu a free release against Jake Ryan. There should have been a 3-deep look with a Brice or Dix or Burnett right there in the middle to keep that from happening. Players have to also come though though... pass rush has to win, if Perry wants to get paid like a #1 then he needs to show he can be a primary pass rusher. Peppers gets paid like a king and only plays half the time so he is fresh for those situations late in the game. No excuse for him to not take over.

Love the offense though. Lane Taylor had the worst game I've seen from him, Clayborn is a tough player though. Glad to see Adams finally healthy and playing like I hoped he was capable of. Good to see some promise from Davis, Allison and Janis also. 

Overall it was a strong effort, tough loss, but it's time to move on to Indy. Offense is finding its feet and that can only mean good things. Get healthy and get to work!

I just so wish Gunter had caught that ball.  It's there, man.  It's right there.

You didn't see a conservative defense on that final drive?  I DVRd the game and watched it again just to be sure I wasn't hallucinating. 

They brought 4 guys on every play except 2 plays when they brought 3.  Not one blitz that I saw and Ryan picked them apart.   

That was the infamous Compers bend-then-break defense. He saves it for special occasions.  Doesn't matter if the defense is healthy or not. It works regardless. 

Blair Kiel posted:

I come away thinking this Packer team, with any amount of health, can make a post-season run. I didn't think that before today.

I'm good.

I feel that way as well.  That said, it hurt to play as well as they did for 55 minutes and have 5 minutes of crap at the end ruin a great effort by a very shorthanded team.

You can only blitz if you have faith the back end can cover. If you blitz with shotty coverage then you either get home and sack the QB or you get burned badly. At least with dropping 6 or 7 you know you're not getting burned deep. You rely on one of your pass rushers to get home, maybe force Ryan to hold it too long for a coverage sack if you only rush 3. What it comes down to is that GB hadn't been pressuring Ryan consistently the entire game, so you have to play conservatively and rely on dropping more in coverage. Maybe if you had Matthews, Gunter and Rollins or Randall or Shields you can take chances, but a depleted D with Goodson and Hawkins starting young have to give them help.

You're right, rushing more was not an option for Dom.  

Neither was covering the middle of the field. 

Or holdong a lead late in a game. 

Not an option for Dom 

Grave Digger posted:

You can only blitz if you have faith the back end can cover. If you blitz with shotty coverage then you either get home and sack the QB or you get burned badly. At least with dropping 6 or 7 you know you're not getting burned deep. You rely on one of your pass rushers to get home, maybe force Ryan to hold it too long for a coverage sack if you only rush 3. What it comes down to is that GB hadn't been pressuring Ryan consistently the entire game, so you have to play conservatively and rely on dropping more in coverage. Maybe if you had Matthews, Gunter and Rollins or Randall or Shields you can take chances, but a depleted D with Goodson and Hawkins starting young have to give them help.

I could not DISAGREE more with this post if I tried.

You blitz in the final 4 minutes precisely because you have NO FAITH in your 4, 5, & 6 CBs holding a good passing attack on 4 consecutive downs.

And yes you blitz exactly because you either get home or get burned badly. If outcome 1 occurs, your D may steal a win. If outcome 2 occurs, your are down 1 point with Aaron Rodgers and a very hot O needing only a FG to win the game.

The one thing that could not happen was to allow Ryan to throw quick, basically uncontested short routes and bleed the clock out. This is of course exactly what transpired.

Rely on one of your pass rushers to get home? When Ryan was throwing short play after play? When as you state "GB hadn't been pressuring Ryan consistently the entire game?" Not bloody likely.

You know you're not getting burned deep? Exactly. You're allowing Atlanta to burn clock and depriving your best player an opportunity to win the game.

I just could not disagree any more with this purported "logic" if I tried.

All that said, this bend, bend, bend and pray you don't break has certainly been the way Dom has coached for years, so I can understand why a loyal fan would defend it.

Should have just rushed 11, gotta be aggressive.

So your solution is give them a better chance to score because Rodgers might also score? Great call Holmgren, how does that strategy work. Blitzing hadn't worked to that point and allowing Julio, Sanu, or the deep threat guy (who had already burned Goodson 1 on 1) to have a 1 on 1 with any of our guys is exactly what Ryan wanted. That's a disastrous mismatch because at least 1 guy has no help over the top. Keep the O in front of you and make them work down the field. Shannahan schemed well to get Sanu open, pass rush just needed to win 1 on 1's. 

Blitzing hadn't worked to that point because they didn't blitz, not because blitzing didn't work.  

Maybe they would have lost by 4 if they had found a way to pressure Ryan

Grave Digger posted:

Should have just rushed 11, gotta be aggressive.

So your solution is give them a better chance to score because Rodgers might also score? Great call Holmgren, how does that strategy work. Blitzing hadn't worked to that point and allowing Julio, Sanu, or the deep threat guy (who had already burned Goodson 1 on 1) to have a 1 on 1 with any of our guys is exactly what Ryan wanted. That's a disastrous mismatch because at least 1 guy has no help over the top. Keep the O in front of you and make them work down the field. Shannahan schemed well to get Sanu open, pass rush just needed to win 1 on 1's. 

The Pack had not blitzed much all day prior to the final drive so the excuse that "Blitzing hadn't work to that point" is pure post-game support the coaching staff without reservation alternative reality.

Play it conservative? All that did was make sure the Falcons used up clock while matriculating the ball down the field while preventing ARod from having a legitimate shot to win the game.

 Rely upon a "pass rush [that] just needed to win 1 on 1's?"

Seriously, are you the same poster who insisted above that "GB hadn't been pressuring Ryan consistently the entire game" and don't those 2 statements expose the fallacy of Dom's approach and those who are so tirelessly defending it?

#Packers ILB Jake Ryan said Mohamed Sanu was not his responsibility on game-winning TD. "Maybe just some miscommunication error," he said.

— Ryan Wood (@ByRyanWood) October 31, 2016

Grave Digger posted:

Should have just rushed 11, gotta be aggressive.

So your solution is give them a better chance to score because Rodgers might also score? Great call Holmgren, how does that strategy work. Blitzing hadn't worked to that point and allowing Julio, Sanu, or the deep threat guy (who had already burned Goodson 1 on 1) to have a 1 on 1 with any of our guys is exactly what Ryan wanted. That's a disastrous mismatch because at least 1 guy has no help over the top. Keep the O in front of you and make them work down the field. Shannahan schemed well to get Sanu open, pass rush just needed to win 1 on 1's. 

Will this man ever get tired of straw man arguments?   I doubt it.

You know what happens if you blitz late in the game and get burned....the exact same thing that happened anyhow...except you give your offense more time to win the game.

This is not hindsight.  It was obvious that Atlanta was going to score (sorry...it was) especially after they got to the 30 so quickly.  Why not send the kitchen sink....worse case scenerio you give the offense a couple more seconds. 

Jake Ryan is never responsible for the middle of the field.  

No one is.  

Once again I have hurt Brainded's feelings. Shocker. 

Maybe you're right JAPF. I guess I don't mind playing conservative and keeping the O in front of you in this situation. If we had a full complement of players I would agree with being more aggressive, but I think if you had opened it up then they would hit a bomb and milked the clock like they did. Instead of 1 long bomb and milking the clock they worked the clock down methodically going down the field. It's a tough situation regardless of the tact you take. 

It was just so reminiscent of the Arizona playoff game.   Banged up offense fights like heck to put them in a position to win and the defense craps the bed.  Yes they had injuries too but I don't get the "keep it in front of them" strategy unless you have 15 seconds left in the game which they did not.   Just as maddening was not using the 2 timeouts but whatever.  

almost like a pattern with the defense

Maybe we get healthy enough to make a playoff run like we did 2010/2011, if we make the playoffs.  Dream big!

I see McGinn wrote something about Rodgers not delivering. only saw the headline, didn't read it.

Very familiar game yesterday, Rodgers and the offense get the lead late only to have the D fail. Certainly the D was under manned, but Capers and staff have to better know the limits of their players and do more to put them in position to succeed.

If GB is missing a S or CB, it's Dom's nature to go pure conservative vanilla. So with his top 3 CB's on the bench it's no surprise he decided to rush 3-4 and try and keep everything in front of the secondary. 

GB really needed a big play out of Ha Ha or Morgan yesterday. Ha Ha almost made one. 

The McGinn piece was utterly ridiculous.  He's suggesting Rodgers failed to deliver (once again) in the clutch but must have missed that 75 yard TD drive with 3 minutes remaining.  

So Rodgers didn't drive them 40 yards with 30 seconds left - for what would have been a long FG attempt.   Yeah that's totally on him.  

I think the strategy would have changed a little also if they had 2 TO's instead of 1. It's no one's fault that they had use the TO due to Nelson's injury, but I think it truly is what killed the drive. They had to keep going for big chunks of yardage along the sideline instead of trying to hit a big play over the middle, call TO, then be in a better position to make another play over the middle to get in FG range. 

Carbon copy of the 2010 regular season game in Atlanta. AR hits Jordy for a 10yd TD with 1:06 left. ST gives up a 40 yard kick return AND a facemask putting ATL on GB 49. 20 yards and 40 seconds later ATL hits the game winning FG. Defense has played that scene out many times. 

At the start of the third quarter yesterday the sideline reporter said MM told her "we need to run the ball in the second half" and I swear my eye started twitching. Those two third quarter possessions were where this game was lost. Going to 11's and getting nothing done. Even 3 points on either of those drives and it's likely a different outcome. 

Grave Digger posted:

Once again I have hurt Brainded's feelings. Shocker. 

Maybe you're right JAPF. I guess I don't mind playing conservative and keeping the O in front of you in this situation. 

You and BrainDed take it to Blair Kiel's suite at the Holiday Inn Express, why don't you?

And the prevent defense only prevents you from winning. 

Per Rob Demovsky, Packers WR Ty Montgomery said the symptoms that kept him out were related to sickle cell trait. He said doctors told him it isn't career threatening and he even hopes to play this week against the Colts.

Hopefully, back soon.

Hungry5 posted:

I see McGinn wrote something about Rodgers not delivering. only saw the headline, didn't read it.

Oats thinks it was the defense

Grave Digger posted:

I think the strategy would have changed a little also if they had 2 TO's instead of 1. It's no one's fault that they had use the TO due to Nelson's injury, but I think it truly is what killed the drive. They had to keep going for big chunks of yardage along the sideline instead of trying to hit a big play over the middle, call TO, then be in a better position to make another play over the middle to get in FG range. 

For one, Nelson should have caught the ball.

Did Nelson play on third down snap? I wasn't sure if he sat out a play or they used the timeout to allow him to come back into the game on the next play. If Nelson wasn't there, they were running a 2 minute drill with one guy (Adams) that had ever played any number of meaningful snaps in Green Bay prior to yesterday.

ChilliJon posted:

Carbon copy of the 2010 regular season game in Atlanta. AR hits Jordy for a 10yd TD with 1:06 left. ST gives up a 40 yard kick return AND a facemask putting ATL on GB 49. 20 yards and 40 seconds later ATL hits the game winning FG. Defense has played that scene out many times. 

At the start of the third quarter yesterday the sideline reporter said MM told her "we need to run the ball in the second half" and I swear my eye started twitching. Those two third quarter possessions were where this game was lost. Going to 11's and getting nothing done. Even 3 points on either of those drives and it's likely a different outcome. 

Does anyone know if Atlanta changed their personnel to start the second half? There are some personnel groupings that you almost have to try to run the other team out of. I don't know if they did, but it might affect the criticism of MM for trying to run the ball.

Also, the play-calling wasn't exactly run-heavy and, if guys executed, worked well. The first drive included a 12 yard run by Ripkowski. What killed it was a drop by Allison and the middle of the OL getting trashed on a 3rd and six at the Atlanta 47. The second drive also ended on a sack by Clayborn. You could criticize MM for personnel I guess, but personnel groupings don't affect a dropped pass and two bad pass protection sets by the middle of your line.

Also, the failure to down the ball inside the 10 on the punt was another problem.

Green Bay Packers at 15:00

1. 5-M.Bosher kicks 65 yards from ATL 35 to end zone, Touchback.

   1. 1-10-GB 25 (15:00) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 87-J.Nelson (23-R.Alford).

   2. 2-10-GB 25 (14:54) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers scrambles left end to GB 33 for 8 yards (91-C.Upshaw).

   3. 3-2-GB 33 (14:05) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 17-D.Adams to GB 37 for 4 yards (34-B.Poole).

   4. 1-10-GB 37 (13:24) (Shotgun) 22-A.Ripkowski right tackle to GB 49 for 12 yards (59-D.Campbell, 97-G.Jarrett).

   5. 1-10-GB 49 (12:37) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to 81-G.Allison.

   6. 2-10-GB 49 (12:31) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 17-D.Adams to ATL 47 for 4 yards (22-K.Neal).

   7. Timeout #1 by GB at 11:43.

   8. 3-6-ATL 47 (11:43) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 45 for -8 yards (99-A.Clayborn).

   9. 4-14-GB 45 (11:11) 10-J.Schum punts 55 yards to end zone, Center-61-B.Goode, Touchback

Green Bay Packers at 03:31

1. 5-M.Bosher kicks 65 yards from ATL 35 to end zone, Touchback.

2. 1-10-GB 25 (3:31) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 17-D.Adams to GB 32 for 7 yards (23-R.Alford).

3. 2-3-GB 32 (2:52) 30-K.Davis left guard to GB 32 for no gain (99-A.Clayborn).

4. 3-3-GB 32 (2:07) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 17-D.Adams to GB 46 for 14 yards (21-D.Trufant).

5. 1-10-GB 46 (1:39) (No Huddle) 34-D.Jackson right end ran ob at GB 45 for -1 yards (45-D.Jones).

6. 2-11-GB 45 (:57) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 17-D.Adams to GB 43 for -2 yards (34-B.Poole).

7. 3-13-GB 43 (:12) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 35 for -8 yards (99-A.Clayborn).

Tschmack posted:

The McGinn piece was utterly ridiculous.  

What's up with him lately ? Does he have a personal issue with Rodgers or is he going Skip Bayless to garner more clicks ??!! Seems like he's gone crabby old man or turned into Tabloid Bob. 

To say Rodgers is to blame, having been given 31 seconds to move into scoring position, is a stretch. Maybe pick on the half time adjustments,  poor clock management, defensive finish, or the injuries, etc....all would have been a more reasonable landing spot.