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Read the article. Started wondering what it would take to go up and get Q Nelson again.
All the mock head’s seem to be coming around to the fact he’s probably the best player in this draft and he’d be going top 3 if he wasn’t a guard. He still may go #2 to NY.
I like McCray and Murphy. I just like them a lot more as depth guys. GB has to do better than that on the right side.
Bulaga would likely be gone if Spriggs became the lock at RT he should have become by now. But he’s not close to that. Making him one of Ted’s worst draft mistakes behind Khyri Thornton.
If GB goes OL in round 1 I’m fine with it. IMO it’s the biggest area they need to improve on in the draft.
I think they will stick with McCray/Bulaga and draft developmental talent unless a a much better option comes along (Nelson in R1, a quality vet OL gets cut, etc.). Unless Bulaga just isn't the same I think the line will be fine with McCray in there, he struggled at OT, but had a lot of strong moments at OG.
If McGlinchy gets drafted maybe they can move guys around, G and T similar to last year. He will help on the OL without a doubt, we need a lot of help in different spots...
Agree that GB has a few areas they need to improve on. But you always, always build inside out. If you have really good lines on offense and defense you are able to cover weaknesses at the skill positions. If you're really good at the skill positions but have ineffective lines everything else is kind of pointless.
The OL has been a rotating patchwork the last two years. They haven't adequately replaced Lang or Sitton yet. Evans was a life saver last year at 34 but he's probably not coming back. Even if he does it isn't likely he'll make it through another full season.
Just my opinion that GB needs to upgrade the OL before anything else.
It seems the MO at the FO is that they have a lot of success drafting OL in day 2 or 3, Spriggs notwithstanding. So it's difficult to see them going OL RD1. I keep thinking they have greater need on D but considering AR is already 34, fortifying what's in front of him makes a lot of sense.
If Will Hernandez is there in R2 (unlikely) that would be a good scenario. He looks like a plug and play starter immediately.
To me the true wild card with the OL is Bulaga's knee. If the knee is sound and he can play I like what they could be. But you have to wonder if his knee is good and he is so banged up all the time. I think regardless of Bulaga's health I wouldnt be opposed to an OL in round 1. to me I think what truly drives a team is a good OL.
Even if Bulaga's knee is sound, you can't plan on it being sound.
I'm hoping for adding another second, third sorta move to get more O-line help, followed by a couple more late picks.
Nelson is great, but he's a luxury the team can't afford. Besides...there are other linemen in this draft who are also very good prospects. I do like Hernandez in the 2nd, and I'm sure the team would consider taking him there, and maybe even move up a couple of spots, if necessary...all that stuff is hard to project.
Isaiah Wynn is well-regarded, too, and so are Braden Smith, and Colby Gossett....all in the guard category.
As far as tackles go, I don't see them taking McGlinchey, unless he's there in the 2nd. Same goes for Connor Williams. I've heard Austin Corbett's name mentioned in the same paragraph as the Packers, so I wouldn't be surprised if they take him in the 3rd or 4th round. He fits the mold of a tackle-turned-guard.
I don't see an O-Lineman being drafted by the Packers before the 3rd or 4th round.
Grave Digger posted:If Will Hernandez is there in R2 (unlikely) that would be a good scenario. He looks like a plug and play starter immediately.
I've seen mocks with GB taking him at 14. That's a serious reach but he's getting attention after his work at the senior bowling and the combine. Everyone knew about his strength but his 40 time is what turned some heads.
Rd1 14 is too early for him. He won't be there at 14th pick in round 2. But he's got "prototypical NFL G" written all over him.
I like Isaiah Wynn even more than Hernandez, but he'll be long gone by their second-rounder.
Cole, Quessenberry and Demby are later guys I like who can line up inside.
If the OL was a little more settled I think a late flyer on Billy Price would be in order since he blew his biceps at the combine and is likely not going to play until year 2.
Unless someone unexpectedly falls to them that they're in love with I don't see them going OL early either. Interesting to see what they do at RT. Given his age, injury history and cap number it's the perfect time to move on from Bulaga but the failure of Spriggs to develop as expected complicates matters. A bit premature to call him a miss, but he's not trending in a positive direction.
Spriggs was like this in college. Why did they think he'd get better. Like Hundley, he's the same player. Has NOT advanced his game. Still remember reading the scouting reports.
Spriggs is one of the reasons I was not more disappointed with the end of Ted's run. Ted made some extraordinary picks, but this trade up was really bad. Springs has been so consistently poor, I can't imagine him improving to a modest level. We need a very good pick at OT in round 1 or 2.
Appears that Spriggs may the classic case of coaches & personnel men saying " think what he could be if coached". In most cases they end up realizing that it is the player who does't have "it".
WTH has happened to Orlando Brown?
I've read where he performed terribly at the combine, but was that the real deal? Is he that poor a prospect?
Spriggs' problem is in his head, IMHO. He wasn't necessarily good, but his rookie year was night/day better than last year. I've always thought that bad players don't get worse, they just plateau early and never get better, so I think he got a bug in his head over last offseason.
Since he was injured later in the year, he may start out this year even further behind the 8 ball if he's not ready to go by TC.
I thought he sucked his rookie year too. I was thinking it had to do with being shifted all over the line. Nope, he just sucks. It happens.
Go read how frustrated too many scouts were about him before the draft. Just the same reactions as the fans. He's making the same mistakes he made in college.
NOT coachable.
Johnson posted:Ted made some extraordinary picks, but this trade up was really bad.
Very similar to the move to get Jerel Worthy. Misses are the nature of the business and they're going to happen. My issue is when you look at the totality of the recent drafts they're not nearly good enough, especially if you're not willing to utilize free agency much.
Timmy! posted:WTH has happened to Orlando Brown?
I've read where he performed terribly at the combine, but was that the real deal? Is he that poor a prospect?Spriggs' problem is in his head, IMHO. He wasn't necessarily good, but his rookie year was night/day better than last year. I've always thought that bad players don't get worse, they just plateau early and never get better, so I think he got a bug in his head over last offseason.
Since he was injured later in the year, he may start out this year even further behind the 8 ball if he's not ready to go by TC.
I do know that Brown had a terrible combine and only did something like 13 or 14 reps on the weights. Which for a guy who is something like 6 foot 7 and 350+ pounds is not good. I think the RB Barkely might have doubled the weight Brown did.
I didnt hear how he did at the Oklahoma pro day though he was talking about working harder on the weights for the scouts.
michiganjoe posted:Johnson posted:Ted made some extraordinary picks, but this trade up was really bad.
Very similar to the move to get Jerel Worthy. Misses are the nature of the business and they're going to happen. My issue is when you look at the totality of the recent drafts they're not nearly good enough, especially if you're not willing to utilize free agency much.
Just for ****'s n giggles. I looked up Packer draft numbers since 2012.
Green Bay has selected 54 players since 2012. 27 Offensive players selected. 27 defensive players selected. Exactly what you'd expect from TT.
But then things get interesting.
If you look at the players selected in the first 5 rounds (where you'd expect some impact):
44% of the players selected by GB since 2012 in the first 5 rounds were defensive selections. Only 29% were offensive players. Which looks worse because only 24% of the defensive players selected since 2012 are still on the team compared to 29% of the offensive players that are still on the team.
When you look at the 16 offensive players taken in the first 5 rounds since 2012 there are only three players that jump out as obvious misses. Hundley, Spriggs, and Lacy.
When you look at the 24 defensive players taken in the first 5 rounds since 2012 that were misses or viewed as misses and allowed to leave it's too much to try and post so I won't even try.
Which again begs the question. Has the defensive coaching in GB sucked that bad since 2012? I mean, the numbers don't say "bad drafting".
By the way. GB has selected a defensive player first for six consecutive years. Nick Perry, Datone Jones, Clinton-Dix, Randall, Kenny Clark, King.
And no, I'm not going to be at all surprised when Damarious Randall makes the top 10 PFF CB list this time next year.
EDIT: Ted selected 23 defensive players in the first 5 rounds since 2012 not 24. So it's 43% defense in rounds 1-5 since 2012. The defensive players he selected were Palmer, Barrington, Goodson, and Ringo. At least Goodson is still on the team Henry. But this does kind of open up the question of Ted possibly leaving defensive help on the board while he evened up O and D picks for guys like Datko, Dorsey, Coleman, Backman, Johnson, and Janis (sorry, had to)
ChilliJon posted:michiganjoe posted:Johnson posted:Ted made some extraordinary picks, but this trade up was really bad.
Very similar to the move to get Jerel Worthy. Misses are the nature of the business and they're going to happen. My issue is when you look at the totality of the recent drafts they're not nearly good enough, especially if you're not willing to utilize free agency much.
And no, I'm not going to be at all surprised when Damarious Randall makes the top 10 PFF CB list this time next year.
If he does, it will be as a safety....nice post!
Hayward was a slot corner in progress when he left GB....
44% of the players selected by GB since 2012 in the first 5 rounds were defensive selections. Only 29% were offensive players.
The other 27% were special teams?
Heard that Jahri Evans is open to return to GB this season. Whether GB is interested remains to be seen.
#Packers have signed 3 players from their draft classes in 2013-14 to second contracts. Bakhtiari, Adams, Linsley. Only 3 out of 20 draft picks.
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) April 4, 2018
Simply not good enough for a team that primarily relies on the draft.
Good thing there's a new GM in GunterGleibenGlauchenGloben.
TT and The Wizard both getting the plug pulled at the same time is surely not coincidence so I wouldn't go sticking pins in TT only. I think GOC is on the Shermany Express as well.
All the handwringing over Van Pelt? He sucked, flat out. I say they promote Cogbot posthaste.
MM knows it's put up or shut up time.
I hope he gives a lot of thought about how Doug Pedersen managed the Eagles down the stretch. That sort of aggressiveness permeates the team.
With 12 back and Pettine lighting fires and having unscouted looks a lot of the pieces are there. Gute needs to plug some holes, for sure.
Now Mike just needs to get more balance and unscouted looks in the offensive playbook, and someone in the box to assist with game management. And 12 has to make it through the schedule.
What the Rams and Eagles are doing is worrisome on paper, but Dream Teams have this way of cratering because of chemistry and dudes wanting to get paid.
I like our chances.
I'm not a huge fan of Philbin but working with GOC seemed to get results. It's pretty clear GOC is probably a worse judge of coaching staff than talent he puts on the field. MacAdoo and Philbin didn't do squat when they got HC jobs. MacAdoo completely unraveled in all of 28 games. Philbin was in a tougher situation with the Dolphins so I won't bash him too hard.
If Rodgers saves GOC again, fine. Just don't meddle with Pettine and the defense. Let's see what kind of GM they have now.
I don't know how anyone calls drafting Eddie Lacy an "obvious miss". Average career for a RB in the NFL is what, 3.6 years or something? Lacy was every bit the blue chipper until the potato chips and injury bug got him after his first 3.5 years. With a hobbled AR, we were riding him to Feb until the TE that shall not be named decided to play hero.
Otherwise that was a good breakdown.
michiganjoe posted:#Packers have signed 3 players from their draft classes in 2013-14 to second contracts. Bakhtiari, Adams, Linsley. Only 3 out of 20 draft picks.
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) April 4, 2018Simply not good enough for a team that primarily relies on the draft.
Please show me a list of the other 31 teams from those same years.
Bakhtiari is arguably the best player in that entire draft. Adams is probably top 10 in a re-draft.
There are also players drafted by the Packers currently playing & playing well on other teams. It's a business with a salary cap.
It's not an exact science.
Seemingly forgotten in all the post-TT forensics is the fact that he was picking at the end of every round since 2008. Hard to get top level talent that way without taking some risks on guys you see with more potential instead of lower risk guys with lower ceilings. A few too many of those didn't work out the last 5 years even though some did. When you're a heavily D&D team, 10 years of late in the round drafting is going to catch up eventually.
DH13 posted:Seemingly forgotten in all the post-TT forensics is the fact that he was picking at the end of every round since 2008.
Just 2009 - Raji & Clay
Otherwise, 100% accurate
I had baby brain on that one. I knew they drafted late after 2007 because of reaching the NFCCG but forgot the dive in 2008 in AR's first year. But yeah, TT had 1 shot at drafting high and he knocked it out of the park.
Did glance at the Patriots' draft record and for those two years I wouldn't say it's substantially better. The fundamental difference, and the larger point, is the willingness of the Pats to use all methods of player acquisition. Packers unwillingness to do that means they really have to draft exceptionally well and lately they've been anything but.
100% agree. FA is the price paid for drafting poorly, TT would never pay the price for missing on picks. I like TT, I think he was an exceptional GM overall, but every GM makes mistakes. Gute will make mistakes as well, but as long as GB is in contention every year, like we have been under TT, then he's doing his job.
That's what I was saying about D&D. NEP aren't apples to apples because of how good BB is at patching with FA. But the fact that he does patch so often tells you something about their drafting success or lack thereof. If we want to tarnish TT's record on personnel, it should be based on his reluctance to patch more than his draft record.
DH13 posted:TT had 1 shot at drafting high and he knocked it out of the park.
Agree that the Raji-Matthews picks were, as a combo, a home run.
But while I try to forget Hawk as much as any Packer fan out there, there can be no denying AJ was the 5th overall pick in the NFL draft and TT is the man who drafted him. And AJ was nothing more than a weak single that barely makes the outfield.
As for TT's drafting overall, other than the great Matthews and beyond awesome Rodgers pick, he was really not that great in round 1 (where to be fair he was often picking at the bottom of the round).
Where he did excel, at least before 2011, was in rounds 2-4 (especially round 2 with Collins, Jennings, and Nelson - three wow picks).
That said, TT's mediocre drafting record since the Super Bowl win in 2010 coupled with the facts he made less use of free agency than any other NFL General Manager and did not make a single trade involving a player worth mentioning in over a decade left Murphy with little choice but to move on if the franchise was serious about getting back to the Super Bowl.