Might as well start this topic.
Harden, as has long been rumored, is even more likely to head back to Houston for next season. Maybe they can do a sign and trade, but if not, Philly might struggle to replace him with any semblance of that level of talent.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Beal to the Suns for a washed up Chris Paul, Laundry Shamet, and some 2nd round picks.
Bucks were supposedly in on this as well and talked to Beal, but he picked the Suns over the Heat and the Bucks.
Chris Paul needed to move on as he’s breaking down physically and I’m not sure Shamet is a huge loss but I honestly hate this trade for Phoenix.
Forget about the fact that Beal plays little to no defense and his overall game is very similar to Devin Booker. The guy is also aging and is due huge money the next several years.
Booker is up for an extension soon so the only way this deal makes sense is if the Suns would look to extend and trade Booker for other assets and/or picks. I don’t think Beal and Booker will coexist well on the floor together, not unlike Westbrook and LeBron.
This seems so typical of some of these owners that want to play fantasy basketball and just add scorers or big names without taking into account how they fit (or don’t) or team chemistry or intangibles - not to mention defense and rebounding prowess.
As much as we have concerns over Middleton and Holiday I’m glad Milwaukee didn’t add Beal.
@ilcuqui posted:Beal’s agent is the father of the Suns’ CEO. Some Fathers’ Day gift, that…
Indeed, imo nothing about this deal makes sense.
Agreed. All the Wizards got was salary cap relief. Maybe that's enough?
The Suns are now facing a situation that by 2025-26, they will be paying 4 guys a cumulative 200 million. This includes a 37 year old with a bad Achilles (Durant), a 32 year old who was one of the worst NBA defenders during the past year (Beal), and a guy they have not wanted for the past two years (Ayton).
I would guess other moves are coming. They now have three ball-dominant wings with no point guard, no wing defenders, and no depth.
Suns are trying to buy a championship and it ain't gonna work.
Booker is the only one on that team with real trade value. But you deal him for what? He’s due a massive extension, doesn’t play any defense, and comes up small in the playoffs. Sure, he’s an elite scorer and is relatively young, but so what.
A deal that would make sense is Booker for Jaylen Brown. Brown and Tatum play the same type role and so do Beal and Booker. Flip flop those two players, problem solved. Plus Brown plays defense.
Bill Simmons made a great point about the Beal trade - it would make a lot more sense if the Durant trade never happened. They got Beal for nothing, so hard to say that the trade was bad. But they paid a lot for Durant and now that they have Beal, I think they'd prefer Bridges, Johnson, and Crowder.
But as it stands, Beal just takes usage away from Booker and Durant. Is that really going to make the team better? Beal is a minus defender. They lost to the Nuggets b/c they couldn't get stops, not because they couldn't score. So how do they get better on defense?
Maybe they trade Ayton to shore up depth and defense but then they have no front court. I just think this was a desperate move made by a new owner.
@CUPackFan posted:Bill Simmons made a great point about the Beal trade - it would make a lot more sense if the Durant trade never happened. They got Beal for nothing, so hard to say that the trade was bad. But they paid a lot for Durant and now that they have Beal, I think they'd prefer Bridges, Johnson, and Crowder.
But as it stands, Beal just takes usage away from Booker and Durant. Is that really going to make the team better? Beal is a minus defender. They lost to the Nuggets b/c they couldn't get stops, not because they couldn't score. So how do they get better on defense?
Maybe they trade Ayton to shore up depth and defense but then they have no front court. I just think this was a desperate move made by a new owner.
Ayton is in the classic situation that a lot of good teams run into. He was too good to lose for nothing when the Pacers gave him the offer sheet. The Suns had no real choice but to match since the way the salary cap works they had no way to replace him with anyone close if he left. But it resulted in him being paid about double what he's probably worth.
The problem is for the Suns now is who really wants Ayton at 100 million over the next 3 years? He has value, but you would probably have to attach some picks to get real value back and the Suns have spent all their draft capital on adding two redundant players.
Ayton can't space the floor on offense. Rudy Gobert has got the same problem, except his contract is even worse - 3 more years for 130 million. Brook Lopez was better than both of them last year and made less than half as much. That's why I'm worried that someone with cap space (Houston) is going to offer Lopez a massive contract to leave Milwaukee. He can space the floor and play drop defense. Even then, when you get deep in the playoffs Lopez gets played off the floor because teams hunt him on switches.
The Celtics had a trade lined up to ship out Brogdon to the Clippers and get Porzingis from the Wizards in a 3 team deal. Brogdon was going to potentially fail his physical and the deal fell about with about an hour before a contract deadline for Porzingis, so they quickly pivoted and sent out Marcus Smart to Memphis to get Porzingis in another 3 team deal.
Now, Marcus Smart is one of my least favorite players in the league. He's a flopper and a dirty player. But he was the heart of that Celtics team. It's like the Bucks losing PJ Tucker except multiplied by a factor of 10. Boston is a very soft team without him, and Porzingis is as finesse a player as you can get.
I'm not a fan of Smart either but he's like Draymond Green - love him on your team, hate him when he's not (unless you're Jordan Poole). He is the heart of a Celtics that doesn't have a whole lot of heart. Does this team have the fire to win a championship without Smart?
@CUPackFan posted:I'm not a fan of Smart either but he's like Draymond Green - love him on your team, hate him when he's not (unless you're Jordan Poole). He is the heart of a Celtics that doesn't have a whole lot of heart. Does this team have the fire to win a championship without Smart?
As a Bucks fan, I was more concerned about the Celtics making the trade where they moved Brogdon to get Porzingis. Smart and Grant Williams are the only guys the Celtics had they were willing to dig in and do the dirty work necessary to win a title. It looks like they are now willing to let Grant Williams go as well. Tatum, Brown, Porzingis, D. White, and Al Horford as your crunch time lineup that can all shoot 3s, but they are all finesse players.
You obviously need the superstars to even be in the conversation to win a title - Giannis, Jokic, Tatum, Embiid, Lebron, Kawhi, Steph Curry, Durant, and Butler all fit that role. Then you need the supporting guy to hit tough shots when defenses take the superstar away - Middleton, Jamal Murray, A. Davis, VanVliet, Klay Thompson. But all these title teams need the guy that's going to be the enforcer and a physical presence. That's where Draymond Green, PJ Tucker, Bruce Brown, Aaron Gordon this year as well for the Nuggets, and Alex Caruso for the bubble Lakers come in.
That's what the Celtics lack now. It's what the Bucks have struggled to replace after Tucker. It's what the Warriors will lack if Draymond leaves.
Chris Paul is being traded for Jordan Poole.
Curry, Paul, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, and (perhaps) Draymond is an interesting starting lineup.
There’s some weirdness going on in Boston tracing all the way back to when they let Udoka go.
Prior to that, the Celtics were a deep, tough minded and gritty team that had (what appeared to be) good chemistry. Now? They’ve basically traded their defensive identity in Marcus Smart, have frozen out Grant Williams, and seem to be fixated on just running out a bunch of offensive minded players to play iso ball and Jack up bunch of 3s.
You would have thought owners and GMs and coaches around the league would have figured out by now that without defense and rebounding you will not win a title. It didn’t work in Brooklyn with their super team and it won’t work in Phoenix or Boston either.
Porzingis is the poster child for everything that’s wrong with the NBA. He’s all about offense, isn’t exactly a great team player, and making matters worse the dude can’t stay healthy.
Boston did Milwaukee a huge favor by making this move.
@Tschmack posted:Porzingis is the poster child for everything that’s wrong with the NBA. He’s all about offense, isn’t exactly a great team player, and making matters worse the dude can’t stay healthy.
Boston did Milwaukee a huge favor by making this move.
You would have thought that the fact he couldn't play with Luka Doncic would have scared off teams with other superstars from acquiring him. Doncic gets you a lot of open looks. Tatum and Brown aren't that level of playmaker.
I was also shocked to learn that he’s only like 27. Seems like Porzingis has been in the league for like 15 years.
I just don’t get why Boston is doing this. Smart is a key “glue” guy and while I think he’s a flopper he at least gives high effort defensively. He’s a bit overrated, but certainly a plus level defender.
Derrick White is poised to get more playing time but he’s half the defensive player that Smart is or was.
Two Bucks' draft picks: https://www.nba.com/bucks/news...r-from-orlando-magic
Middleton becomes a Free Agent: https://www.wqow.com/sports/pr..._campaign=user-share
Bucks hire female assistant coach: https://www.jsonline.com/story...e-bucks/70366046007/
Middleton resigns for 3 year, 102 million.
JeVon Carter to the Bulls for 3 years, 20 million.
Joe Ingles to Orlando for 2 years, 22 million.
Brook Lopez may get 2 years and 50 million from Houston. Houston already put 4 years and 130 million into VanVleet. That contract may look really stupid in about 2 years.
Dame Lillard requests a trade to Miami.
Lillard going to Miami makes Holiday even more valuable to the Bucks. He's too small to guard Butler, but he's perfect to guard a guy like Lillard.
I may be in the minority, but I hope the Bucks don't get into a bidding war with Houston. Lopez had a great year, he's a great teammate, and he's an elite rim protector. But he's going to be 36 years old, is two years removed from back surgery, and gets played off the floor against teams like the Celtics and Heat in the playoffs. Committing 20+ million of salary cap to a guy that can't be on the floor in key playoff matchups is a big problem. I'd rather use the MLE for about 12 million to bring in a better 3 and D wing guy.
Lopez is back 2 yrs 48M
Rumors persist that Milwaukee may bring back Crowder and could pursue Kevin Love or Terrance Ross.
Love re-signed with Miami. No thanks to Crowder, looks washed (EDIT: I see they just re-signed Crowder, hoping he will look better this year). Ross would have to be really cheap. I wonder how many years they’ll keep the aging guys around? Any semblance of a rebuild and Giannis will want out, and they’ll have to tear the whole thing down, and no draft picks for several years. Hoping they have enough in them for one or two more runs at the chip.
From CBS re: Crowder- Crowder's efficiency really stood out, as she posted 47.9/43.6/83.3 shooting splits. Guess I was wrong about him, at least by shooting metrics.
Crowder was fine; Bud was an idiot not to play him more instead of that sieve Ingles.
They are lining up current team for next year and 2024. After that, Middleton and Giannis have player options and they can reassess then.
@Tschmack posted:Crowder was fine; Bud was an idiot not to play him more instead of that sieve Ingles.
They are lining up current team for next year and 2024. After that, Middleton and Giannis have player options and they can reassess then.
And Holiday and Lopez are done at that point as well. Everyone could be off the books by the summer 2025 off-season.
Except for Joe Ingles 8 minutes of defenselessness, it looks like they are going to run the same team back next year since everyone else is going to be back at this point (except for maybe Wes Matthews).
Maybe Beauchamp gets better? Otherwise, it's mainly an indication that they thought Bud was the biggest problem.
Thought I read a couple days ago Javon Carter signed with the Bulls for like $48 mil?
@DurangoDoug posted:Thought I read a couple days ago Javon Carter signed with the Bulls for like $48 mil?
3 years, 20 million.
https://bullswire.usatoday.com...r-free-agency-steal/
Loved watching him play, but he was unplayable in the playoffs on offense.
It’s pretty clear what the Bucks are doing.
Holiday has a player option after next season, but at 39M he’s almost certain to pick that up. If not, it opens the door to a sign and trade or they free up his spot.
It’s really the following year - or basically 2 years from now- that Milwaukee has a lot to decide.
Giannis, Portis, Middleton and Pat C all have player options and Lopez will be up. Beauchamp also has a team option. So in theory, they could have a complete reset going into the 2025/2026 season. Giannis will be 31 at that point, and I highly doubt they will let him walk into free agency with nothing to show for it.
Best case scenario is they win another title this year or next then it makes the following year a little more easy to navigate.
I think title contention is a reasonable expectation; this team just needs to stay healthy. Miami could be scary with Dame and Bam and Butler, but much like Boston their depth has been really depleted. Philly is totally inconsistent and unpredictable and who knows about Cleveland.
The real questions are out west. Denver is still the class of the WC, but Phoenix and LAL and Sacramento and Golden State have made moves and a lot can change with Memphis and New Orleans and Minnesota if they decide to move on from guys like Kat and Zion and Morant. Portland could also decide to reset if Dame is moved.
I actually think that Memphis could be scary good if they could swap out Morant for someone else say, Jaylen Brown or another talented SF. Bane is really good and Jackson Jr might be one of the most underrated bigs in the league. Smart and Adams are solid. You add a guy like Brown to that roster and they are a legit contender.
It’s been revealed that Houston offered 2 years and 54M for Lopez.
When you got 48M for 2 years what is another 6M?
@ammo posted:When you got 48M for 2 years what is another 6M?
Especially when you'll make 220 million over your career as Lopez has and will.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/mi...-6136/cash-earnings/
Khris Middleton is now just short of 300 million.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/mi...10864/cash-earnings/
Jrue Holiday is 291 million.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/mi...-6316/cash-earnings/
If Giannis signed his 3 year, 173 million extension this off-season (unlikely), he'll hit half a billion in his career.
Buy those hats, shirts, beers and tickets boys.
And the money keeps rolling in. Evita
Bucks sign Malik Beasley to a 1 year 2.7M contract. Beasley, who is 26 shot 35.7% from 3 point for the Jazz and Lakers this past season and averaged nearly 13 points per game. He played in all 82 regular season games this past season. .
Beasley is a low risk signing. He should be making a lot more, but ran into problems a few years ago with a gun charge that was a misunderstanding.
https://www.sltrib.com/sports/...ley-knows-he-doesnt/
Bucks sign Robin Lopez back as well. Maybe Brook getting his brother back was part of his deal?
I’d much rather have Beasley than Javon Carter. He’s a decent 3pt shooter as a combo guard and is much more playable in the postseason.
He was a bit inconsistent with the Lakers this past year but overall is a good signing at the minimum.
What can the Heat possibly have that would convince Portland to trade Dame? Every trade I've seen revolves around Herro and 2028, 2029, and 2030 picks. I get it, something is better than an unhappy star. But this trade does nothing to help the Blazers rebuild so why not just keep Dame and hope Scoot develops fast?
If I were the Blazers, I'd tell the agent to provide a list of 4 teams (minimum). And if he won't, then Dame should be ready to play next year with the Blazers. I'm ok with stars requesting a trade and giving a list of teams. But demanding a trade to one team is ridiculous. If he wanted to go to the Heat and only the Heat, he should have passed on the max extension and gone to free agency.
And I'm in the minority but I think Dame is part of the Blazer's issue. It's difficult to build around an undersized shooting guard that is a liability on defense who does not make the players around him better. And yes, Dame is a shooting guard in a point guard's body.
I will die on this hill - NBA teams should avoid building a team around a scorer who is a liability on defense and does not make the players around him better.
