....for a second straight season....
Where will Giannis go??
I can hardly wait for a LeBron style "decision"😉
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I see what you're doing here and can't help but agree. What a disappointment .
Get a real GM, turn over the entire roster and stockpile picks.
If they end the season with a loss in the first round, there is no way they can bring Doc Rivers back. That's true even if Giannis doesn't play.
@tsr86free posted:Get a real GM, turn over the entire roster and stockpile picks.
If you have to trade Giannis, you'll be at least 6-7 years from being relevant again (since they don't control their own pick until 2030).
@Boris posted:....for a second straight season....
Where will Giannis go??
I can hardly wait for a LeBron style "decision"😉
If he goes anywhere, it's probably to the Knicks.
Trading Giannis is probably the least likely scenario out there for a number of reasons. As simple as it sounds, you’d need a trade partner that can afford the picks and players required to get him. In reality, there’s only a few - Knicks, OKC, New Orleans, and maybe Golden State. Knicks are the most realistic team of that group.
The more likely scenario is trading Lillard. It’s obvious the trade didn’t work from a fit standpoint and while he would never admit it he didn’t want to be in Milwaukee anyway. At this point, I’d work with him and his agent to find the best landing spot. He’s still good enough to get a couple of picks and probably a semi decent player and filler back in return.
The other move or moves are that Lopez probably needs to go and interestingly enough a team like the Knicks or Warriors could be a good fit. I do doubt they’d get back much in return but regardless of what they do with Giannis or Dame it’s time.
Of course, the two biggest question marks are Rivers and Horst. I see almost no scenario where Doc returns and to a lesser degree you could say the same about Horst. But if one or both of them return it’s more likely they try to run it back with close to or most of the pieces intact.
Who the hell thought Doc Rivers was going to fix this team this year?
@MichiganPacker2 posted:If you have to trade Giannis, you'll be at least 6-7 years from being relevant again (since they don't control their own pick until 2030).
Not necessarily. Teams such as the Lakers and Clippers are adjusting on the fly constantly. Unloading so much salary and presumably getting a treasure chest of picks and established players (and a new GM and coach) could bring the org back to winning and relevance. This team is old, and Giannis has become a yearly “will he, won’t he, force a trade” distraction. But if they do keep one player, obviously it is him.
@YATittle posted:Who the hell thought Doc Rivers was going to fix this team this year?
He did fix the defense and they were trending in the right direction. They looked as good as any team in the league against the Thunder on March 24th. They just dismantled them. Great game plan, aggressive rotations on defense, and beat them badly even without shooting that well from outside. They had just gotten Middleton back and finally had Giannis, Khris, and Dame healthy at the same time.
They were 46-25 and on pace to win about 55 games given how easy some parts of the schedule were coming up.
https://www.espn.com/nba/game?gameId=401585658
The next game they led the Lakers by 19 in the 4th quarter and collapsed. They lost a road game in New Orleans two days later, and then Dame took his "spring break" trip home for a few games and they've not been the same since. They've gone 3-8 and the vibe on the court is that the players don't like playing with each other.
Doc Rivers is not a superstar coach, but there are decades of evidence he's at least a competent NBA coach. There is something going on much deeper than the coaching staff. When they lose in the playoffs and players get traded off or let go in the offseason, we'll probably start to hear what really was the underlying cause of this.
Another underlying problem is that Giannis, Khris, and Dame have played 43 games together. That's it. In games that at least one of them missed they are 20-19 (42 win pace). Also, in about 12 of those games, Middleton was on a minutes restriction or got injured in the game that resulted in him playing less than 22 minutes.
When all 3 play even when Middleton was on a minutes restriction, they were 29-14 (55 win pace).
If Giannis comes back to play in the Pacers series and resembles anything near his normal self, they'll probably squeak out a series win. If he doesn't play, they'll probably lose in a short series to the Pacers. I would say they'd lose in a gentleman's sweep, but Game 5 will be in Milwaukee and I think it's more likely the Pacers close them out in Indy in Game 6. The Bucks are 2-8 in their last 10 road games.
@tsr86free posted:Not necessarily. Teams such as the Lakers and Clippers are adjusting on the fly constantly. Unloading so much salary and presumably getting a treasure chest of picks and established players (and a new GM and coach) could bring the org back to winning and relevance. This team is old, and Giannis has become a yearly “will he, won’t he, force a trade” distraction. But if they do keep one player, obviously it is him.
The Lakers and Clippers (especially the Lakers) are able to adjust on the fly because many young, rich men like to live in Southern California.
The Lakers are relevant because LeBron chose to sign there in free agency in 2018, even after making the Finals the previous 4 years with the Cavs. The Lakers gave up no compensation at all for a top 3 player all time who was still at the tail end of his prime. LeBron's team of people then got AD to force his way out of New Orleans.
The Clippers are relevant because Kawhi decided he wanted to live near where he grew up in 2019. Even winning a title in Toronto, he still wanted out. The Clippers gave up no compensation at all to get him. Kawhi then contacted Paul George (about as blatant a collusion as you can get) and had George force a trade to the Clippers. OKC came out of that really well, mainly because SGA developed into a top 5 player, but that is the exception rather than the rule (usually you don't get enough value back when you trade a superstar).
Absolutely no superstar free agent is coming to Milwaukee to establish a superteam from scratch if they traded Giannis and started from scratch. That goes for 70-80% of teams in the league. To become a true contender again, they'd have to luck into a superstar in the draft again. In the history of the Bucks, they've drafted almost 50 guys in the first round ranging from the top overall pick to the end of Round 1. They gotten two superstars good enough to be the best player on a title team (Kareem and Giannis) and three other HOF-level players (Marques Johnson, Sidney Moncrief, and Ray Allen). They've gotten a couple of other solid players who made some all-star appearances (Big Dog, Vin Baker, Michael Redd in the 2nd round), but unless you happen to draft with the top overall pick in one of the drafts where there is a generational talent (Wembenyama, AD, Zion, LeBron, Shaq, first 8 years of Dwight Howard, David Robinson, Kareem, Hakeem) you might as well pick 20 guys you are thinking about drafting, put their names on the wall, and throw darts at them in terms of your chances of getting a true superstar.
If the Warriors, Lakers, Clippers, and Heat, and maybe the Knicks, Mavs, Rockets, and Nets wiped their whole salary cap and roster clean for a year, they'd all be places where a superstar with freedom to move would consider going.
For all intents and purposes, the Bucks title window may have shut when Middleton sprained his knee slipping on the floor in the second game of the 2022 playoffs. If Middleton is healthy against the Celtics in that series, the Bucks win another title that year and it's dynasty talk.
This play looked so innocuous when it happened, but Middleton has never been the same since. He went from a guy playing 40+ minutes in playoff games and being a very good wing defender to a guy whose minutes had to be managed and now lacks the lateral agility he once had. If Dame had come in this year and been Steph Curry (which many people expected based on playing with his best set of teammates ever), they could have still won. Obviously, Dame has proven this year he's not Steph Curry (unless there is a switch he flips in the next 6 days).
If they bow out in round 1 I think they will need to retool the roster. I’d start with Dame Lillard.
If the rumors were true, Miami was prepared to trade Herro and 3 1s for Lillard. Portland balked because they didn’t need Herro and allegedly wanted 4 1s in any proposal.
Assuming that story is somewhat true, if I’m Milwaukee I would really need to think about dealing him to Miami. Herro and Robinson straight up work from a salary standpoint, and both guys would help the team get younger almost immediately. Now, if I’m the Bucks I’d still need at least 2 1s from Miami as well but the reality is that Crowder and Beverly and Beasley aren’t coming back and while Hero and Robinson aren’t defensive stoppers both guys can shoot and score well and replace the lost production of a Lillard and Beasley and do so at a more efficient clip.
Then you look flip Lopez or Pat C and some of the draft capital acquired to add an athletic big man or 3 and D guy. The question is if Beauchamp or Jackson Jr would be ready to take over the 2 guard spot as AJ Green could be the backup.
New reporting suggesting (as we all probably expected) that Giannis may not be available for Round 1 at all. If that's the case, I think you have to favor the Pacers.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story...iannis-antetokounmpo
I agree with Tschmack, if that happens you have to tear most of this down in the 2024 offseason and hope that Giannis stays on for the retooling. Having Dame instead of Jrue makes a retooling easier, because I think you can get more for Dame even after a down year. While the Bucks would have had a better record this year had they just kept Jrue and Grayson Allen, I don't think that was a title team either given the lack of offense. Also, they would have been forced to extend Jrue like the Celtics did and then be stuck with Giannis and an aging additional core of Lopez, Middleton, and Holiday with no real way of improving.
The criticism of Herro is that he is essentially an economy version of Lillard. He is a streaky shooter who can get you 40, but he's just as likely to give up 40. Another problem with trading with the Heat, is their draft picks are likely never to be in the top half of the draft. Even if most of the Heat players decided they wanted out in a particular year (very unlikely), it's such an attractive destination for guys to live in that they'll always get decent enough guys to be competitive. It's not like making a deal with the Bucks (or some other small market teams) where if the star wants out they could bottom out really quickly. To make the money work, any deal for Lillard has to include Herro and Robinson. Unless Lillard flips a switch and becomes Steph Curry in the playoffs, I think you take Herro, Robinson, and two picks from the Heat since Lillard will either leave after next season or he'll want to extend at 55 million a year (which would be a terrible contract when he's 36-37 years old). Maybe you can get them to throw in Jacquez as well?
There is some chatter out there that Lillard would really like to play for the Lakers. He'd be a short flight from Portland and would be able to develop his rap/entertainment interests more easily. The Blazers were never going to trade him directly to the Lakers, but the Bucks won't care about that. The return package would have to include D. Russell and some combination of Reaves, Vincent, and Hachimura and probably a few picks (that again would likely never be in the lottery).
They could always just send him back to Portland for Anfernee Simons and Jerami Grant and some picks.
I think a trade with the Lakers would be preferred over the Heat for a number of reasons. Reaves and Hachimura are solid players that can give you 15-20 on most nights and Gabe Vincent is a decent backup guy. Milwaukee would still need a PG but with the picks they’d have acquired you would think they could deal for a starting PG.
The return package would have to include D. Russell and some combination of Reaves, Vincent, and Hachimura and probably a few picks (that again would likely never be in the lottery).
We don't want anything to do with D'Angelo Russell.
Horst has some work to do
From The Athletic this morning.....
Most Frustrating Team: Bucks (49-33, No. 2 in East). They weren’t bad, but they were supposed to be transcendent. Instead, they had the weirdest season since the 2012-13 Lakers and now face the Pacers with Giannis Antetokounmpo still out. | Runner-up: Phoenix Suns
Worst Acquisition: Jordan Poole, Wizards. He and the Wizards weren’t supposed to be good, but he was a running joke all day, every damn day. | Runner-up: That Damian Lillard trade has been rough.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:There is some chatter out there that Lillard would really like to play for the Lakers. He'd be a short flight from Portland and would be able to develop his rap/entertainment interests more easily.
Doesn't this sum up the desires of 99.9% posters on this site?
@Tavis Smiley posted:Doesn't this sum up the desires of 99.9% posters on this site?
To get rid of Lillard or to become a rapper/rock star?
Live in So Cal? Hardly. I think 99.9% of non celebrities or pro athletes want to GTFO of that place.
@Tschmack posted:Live in So Cal? Hardly. I think 99.9% of non celebrities or pro athletes want to GTFO of that place.
Not true.
Not true? Fuck that state. If California and Texas and Florida were sold off tomorrow to Saudi Arabia in exchange for oil I’d give them cents on the dollar.
90% of what’s fucked up in this country can be explained to those 3 so called states.
OK Boomer. 
Sorry but this is really some kind of dumb...bears fan in here?
@Tschmack posted:Not true? Fuck that state. If California and Texas and Florida were sold off tomorrow to Saudi Arabia in exchange for oil I’d give them cents on the dollar.
90% of what’s fucked up in this country can be explained to those 3 so called states.
One of the 3 is the 8th largest economy in the world, another the 3rd.
Genius.
Right
There’s America than there those 3 states. Grifters, billionaires, and morons unite. All wrapped up in one neat little package.
You want to talk economics? Well, then don’t talk about the fuckos running and managing those three states. They are all about taking care of themselves and their political interests. To the extreme. Maybe Mexico can buy them back outright.
Tschmack needs to take several chill pills. Agreed Cali is a state with numerous problems. But TX and FL seem to be at minimum holding their own. Cept for the illegal immigration occurring down in those parts.
42% of US oil comes from Texas.
26% of US wind energy comes from Texas.
16% of US solar energy comes from Texas.
But tschmack doesn't use any of those. He's Amish.
@Pikes Peak posted:One of the 3 is the 8th largest economy in the world, another the 3rd.
Genius.
I don't like a lot of things about Texas and Florida, but if we really wanted to run the country based on which states we were getting the most benefit from, we'd need to get rid of a few of the poor performing ones first.
I'm thinking West Virginia, Mississippi, and New Mexico. Those are 3 of the top 4 states in terms of the ratio of what they pay in federal taxes versus what they get back (in other words, they are taking more money relative to what they are putting in than all the other states). Alaska is the other one in the top 4, but I think the oil rights and national parks are worth the investment.
Florida is 46th, California is 41st, and Texas is 25th.
To paraphrase Leonard Cohen…I love the state but I can’t stand the scene.