I don't mind the conversations. Gives us something to debate.
quote:Iowanns are breeeliants. How's Brad Banks doing now a days? Clearly better than Bollinger or Sorgi.
Can't we just agree that the Hawkeyes and Badgers both suck?
As do black and white movies. Except Young Frankenstein.
quote:NE got a record setting, MVP WR.
What year was Moss MVP? I thought Brady won and your hero, Favre was second, no?
quote:Originally posted by Diggr14:
I know... that was cruel. Ted got his Barbie doll and NE got a record setting, MVP WR.
An MVP WR? My god, they award rings for those, don't they? Poor Teddy.
Another totally failure not trading for the MVP of receivers. Damn you TT. He should've went after the MVP of guards Mankins.
Something i got out of the article.MS gets hounded for leaving shelves bare and taking chances of who he signed/resigned but Brandt talkes about the win now mentality being pushed by many in Packers organization, including apparently very highly by Brett.I was feeling that myself: dont go younger , keep current players because we were close.We really were close.In draft try to fill few holes we had. Unfortunately their is only 1 SB winner a year and we werent it. I think this kinda proves MS was more victim of the times. Now we r truely learning just how much Brett was throwing his weight around at that time and mgmt was trying to keep him happy. I know at that time if we hadnt tried to get a DE via draft or FA we as fans would have been upset.We tried both and neither worked. Hunt was a bad chance and resign decision but if we had let him go and not filled Dt position most fans would have been ticked.
I propose that if MS had tried planning for long term instead of immediate time, Brett probably would have started playing retirement/ trade game years earlier. MS instead of TT would have been known as guy who got rid of Brett.
I propose that if MS had tried planning for long term instead of immediate time, Brett probably would have started playing retirement/ trade game years earlier. MS instead of TT would have been known as guy who got rid of Brett.
quote:Originally posted by Music City:
I don't think it's necessarily wong to assert that Moss might have made a more positive impact on the Packers that year. In fact, he may have made a huge impact.
But what is silly is to resent Thompson for it.
Thompson has done a fantastic job in building the Packers into a SB contender in 2010. It's a really stipd conversation to have now anyway.
I think this is pretty much what most Pack fans think. I wanted Moss badly and when this was being kicked around, WR didn't appear to be as strong of a position as it ended up being. Let's see/hope if TT has the same results with RB this year if he decides to stand pat.
quote:Originally posted by chickenboy:
I think this is pretty much what most Pack fans think.
Post abortion.
quote:Originally posted by chickenboy:
Let's see/hope if TT has the same results with RB this year if he decides to stand pat.
There's definitely that potential. Starks and Nance might both be capable of being the next Ryan Grant. I guess BJax could be that too, I personally don't think so, but you never know until he has been given his shot. I'm also pretty excited to see Kuhn get the ball in power RB sets. It will be fun to watch regardless.
What is everyone basing their hope / optimism on when it comes to Starks?
quote:Originally posted by Blueshound:
What is everyone basing their hope / optimism on when it comes to Starks?
I'm saying it's possible he could be as good as Grant. Nothing more.
isn't hope and optimism all they/we really have at the rb position at the moment?
quote:Originally posted by Music City:
I don't think it's necessarily wong to assert that Moss might have made a more positive impact on the Packers that year. In fact, he may have made a huge impact.
But what is silly is to resent Thompson for it.
The sad part of it all is that the one's that are trying to bag on Thompson for not signing Moss. Where/are the same exact one's that were dead against getting him at the time. The majority of Packers fans in this state were dead set against signing him. When this all went down in '07 and rumors starting floating around that the Packer's were entertaining this idea. It was quite the uproar in this state. Sport Radio made a big deal of it,so did the newspapers in Green Bay and Milwaukee. Harlan has even went on record about how much hate mail both he and Thompson received over this.
The guy just can't win with some people. No matter what he does. Even after more facts are coming out of how much of a douchenozzle Favre acted through the entire ordeal from March '08- To August of '08 when he was traded. Some people still can't get it through their thick skulls.
quote:Originally posted by Music City:
I don't think it's necessarily wong to assert that Moss might have made a more positive impact on the Packers that year. In fact, he may have made a huge impact.
But what is silly is to resent Thompson for it.
Thompson has done a fantastic job in building the Packers into a SB contender in 2010. It's a really stipd conversation to have now anyway.
Hope and optimism is all fans really have.
quote:Originally posted by BTP:
Where/are the same exact one's that were dead against getting him at the time. of '08 when he was traded.
I'm right here. Not sure what you're getting at. I was adamantly against GB acquiring Moss then. Still feel the same way. I delight in bashing Moss just as much today as ever.
quote:NE (also thought to be the better team entering that season) didn't win a Championship even with Moss
I don't lend much if any significance to this statement.
The Pats lost that SB for a few reasons. On offense, Brady seemed to get hit about 2/3 of the time he dropped back to pass and outside a surreal catch by a TE, the Pats likely would have won the game. It's silly to make these kind of arguments.
Who could have known the Packers would play the NFC championship in those frigid conditions? In my opinion, the climate of that game would have largely tempered what Moss could do for the Packers. But, no one knows what the thermometer is going to read when assembling a team.
You look at Moss's stats and you factor Favre's incredible arm strength with Moss's ability to stretch the field and how freakish he is, I think he would have been a worthy acquisition. That year may have been the finest statistical year for a WR in the history of the league. That's worth something.
just my opinion.
The problem with your little theory is the regardless of who would know what the temp would be like in the NFCGG are the facts that many didn't expect the Packers to get as far as they did and even more importantly they did know what the weather was like that day if not a couple days previous and did nothing to prep themselves for it, unlike the Giants.
You tell me how "mighty" Bert was looking that day and how one of the toughest SOBs in Donald Driver to play the position couldn't prevent that duck Bert threw from getting picked off.
You tell me how "mighty" Bert was looking that day and how one of the toughest SOBs in Donald Driver to play the position couldn't prevent that duck Bert threw from getting picked off.
Well, Henry, that gets me to another related matter.
My feeling was if we go with Favre it's because we think we can win with him and if we think we can win with him, we roll the dice since he would be expected to have little playing time left (and so grab Moss).
And if we don't think we can live with Favre, ship his butt out and give Rodgers playing time and build for the future.
I respect solid counter-arguments, chiefly the idea that in retrospect Rodgers may have benefitted from sitting even his third year (I think it was).
One other thought. No one could predict Rodgers to be this good.
But, to summarize, if we're going with an old fart like Favre, I assume we are rolling the marbles for the whole thing and if so, grab Moss.
I got hammered for actually suggesting to jettison Favre, but he was already starting to get to me. I had gotten to the point by then that I thought it was highly unlikely that he was capable of 3 straight games of not committing some boneheaded mistake that had a strong likelihood of mandating a loss. And if so, even with a 1st round bye, no way they win an SB as you need three straight wins and so why are we keeping him?
Go with Rodgers already and build for the future (for when Rodgers is viable to win it all).
Man, did I ever get creamed for that one!
My feeling was if we go with Favre it's because we think we can win with him and if we think we can win with him, we roll the dice since he would be expected to have little playing time left (and so grab Moss).
And if we don't think we can live with Favre, ship his butt out and give Rodgers playing time and build for the future.
I respect solid counter-arguments, chiefly the idea that in retrospect Rodgers may have benefitted from sitting even his third year (I think it was).
One other thought. No one could predict Rodgers to be this good.
But, to summarize, if we're going with an old fart like Favre, I assume we are rolling the marbles for the whole thing and if so, grab Moss.
I got hammered for actually suggesting to jettison Favre, but he was already starting to get to me. I had gotten to the point by then that I thought it was highly unlikely that he was capable of 3 straight games of not committing some boneheaded mistake that had a strong likelihood of mandating a loss. And if so, even with a 1st round bye, no way they win an SB as you need three straight wins and so why are we keeping him?
Go with Rodgers already and build for the future (for when Rodgers is viable to win it all).
Man, did I ever get creamed for that one!
You're making this argument into something it isn't. I also believe that Rodgers benefited from sitting that 3rd year. The point is nobody knew that Bert was going to look like such a old hen until the Chicago game where he made Kyle Orton look like Johnny Unitas in comparison. We're not talking about picking up Moss in the middle of the season. Expectations to come within one dumb pass of the Super Bowl just weren't there.
TT and MM may have believed differently but ultimately TT had no desire to rent a one year player that may or may not be a positive influence (already a bust in Oakland) and/or get them to the Superbowl. The point is TT did due diligence in the situation and even if he did sign Moss at Bert's whim, Moss wasn't going to change the fact that Bert looked like a frozen old duffer.
TT and MM may have believed differently but ultimately TT had no desire to rent a one year player that may or may not be a positive influence (already a bust in Oakland) and/or get them to the Superbowl. The point is TT did due diligence in the situation and even if he did sign Moss at Bert's whim, Moss wasn't going to change the fact that Bert looked like a frozen old duffer.
quote:Originally posted by phaedrus:
Favre's incredible arm strength with Moss's ability to stretch the field and how freakish he is,
Wow!
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Moss wasn't going to change the fact that Bert looked like a frozen old duffer.
That is the bottom line. Moss would have probably been battling him for the last hand warmer.
Confirms suspicions that BrINT was pulling strings b4 TT, Then things changed, Favre didn't get Moss so he took his ball and went home.
Deion Sanders recent interview of NYJ CB Darrelle Revis.
Deion: Two words or less, what come to mind when you think of Randy Moss?
Revis: Slouch.
Deion: TO?
Revis: Slouch.
Deion: Ocho Cinco?
Revis: Competitor.
I was against Randy Moss trade when it was rumored but would've lived with it had it happened. Makes me think, how did Terry Glenn work out in GB? So so... Probably a MS signing to appease BFF.
In hindsight things have worked out for the best for the Packers long term. Favre is gone, Pack moved on. Next.
Deion Sanders recent interview of NYJ CB Darrelle Revis.
Deion: Two words or less, what come to mind when you think of Randy Moss?
Revis: Slouch.
Deion: TO?
Revis: Slouch.
Deion: Ocho Cinco?
Revis: Competitor.
I was against Randy Moss trade when it was rumored but would've lived with it had it happened. Makes me think, how did Terry Glenn work out in GB? So so... Probably a MS signing to appease BFF.
In hindsight things have worked out for the best for the Packers long term. Favre is gone, Pack moved on. Next.
quote:Originally posted by GreenBayLA:
Favre didn't get Moss so he took his ball and went home.
as poetically put as I've read it
quote:In hindsight things have worked out for the best for the Packers long term. Favre is gone, Pack moved on. Next.
Agreed.
As to that Giant game, I was shocked the Pack got that far.
As to Favre, I think it was a playoff game, but years before against the Vikings, he could have ran into the EZ, but he didn't. Did the same thing last year against the Saints. That last INT was an easy rushing first down.
I used to try to come up with a rationale for Favre being Top 5 all time. Now, I'd put him ~11-15 and have no desire to try to imagine him any better.
I wasn't shocked i knew we would demolish Seattle. we then got lucky that we didn't have to go to Dallas.
I remember the exact play you are talking about against MN. And for your last statement I completely concur.
I asked in another thread if bert would have retired a packer he would have gotten a statue in front of lambeau. now he gets 40 years of pissed off packer fans.
the die hards will never forget what he did to the packers, the bert favre fans will find another player to fall in love with and forget about him.
sad if you think about it.
I remember the exact play you are talking about against MN. And for your last statement I completely concur.
I asked in another thread if bert would have retired a packer he would have gotten a statue in front of lambeau. now he gets 40 years of pissed off packer fans.
the die hards will never forget what he did to the packers, the bert favre fans will find another player to fall in love with and forget about him.
sad if you think about it.
Check out The Old Gunslinger at the 2:10 mark of the video.
I remember that sickening display. Was shocked he didn't take more heat for it. It vanished quickly just like the Strahan laydown.
I still remember him smiling as he walked off of the field after that play. And all Madden could do was spout off about how much fun Brent had playing the game.
quote:But, to summarize, if we're going with an old fart like Favre, I assume we are rolling the marbles for the whole thing and if so, grab Moss.
I got hammered for actually suggesting to jettison Favre, but he was already starting to get to me. I had gotten to the point by then that I thought it was highly unlikely that he was capable of 3 straight games of not committing some boneheaded mistake that had a strong likelihood of mandating a loss. And if so, even with a 1st round bye, no way they win an SB as you need three straight wins and so why are we keeping him?
Man, did I ever get creamed for that one!
I was done with #4 after the '03 Philly game. I don't think I ever suggested trading him or cutting him and said pining for Rodgers, but I wanted him to retiure and go away so I wouldn't have to deal with "what if?" BS. Of course, the Packers organization took care of that in '08, and I am much more confident as a Packer fan today because I see what #12 is made of. He's made of what I consider better stock. He has the ability to keep his head when the bullets are flying. #4 was edge of your seat, which could be fun, but ultimately cost us all.
quote:Originally posted by Jody:
Check out The Old Gunslinger at the 2:10 mark of the video.
That was the most horrifying link I have ever opened in my entire life. I had blocked that game from memory. Back to hypnotherapy I go.
quote:Originally posted by Jody:
Check out The Old Gunslinger at the 2:10 mark of the video.
Was kinda in the same boat at CJS (except for method of treatment
) and had this, so I thought, permanently banned from conscious memory. Damn you, Sir.
Heck, in the 2007 off-season, I was pretty upset after hearing for weeks that Moss was going to the Packers that it didn't happen and the Patriots got him. But you know what? I got over it. Quickly.
After the Pack started the 2007 season 3-0, it was pretty obvious that this was a darn good team and things like the Moss trade that didn't happen should have been put into the rearview mirror forever. I guess that's the one trait about Favre that no one really knew about, his inability to get over a grudge. Absolutely ridiculous that after a 13-3 NFC Championship bound season, the guy cared about nothing but the fact that TT didn't get him his favorite toy. Unbelievable.
After the Pack started the 2007 season 3-0, it was pretty obvious that this was a darn good team and things like the Moss trade that didn't happen should have been put into the rearview mirror forever. I guess that's the one trait about Favre that no one really knew about, his inability to get over a grudge. Absolutely ridiculous that after a 13-3 NFC Championship bound season, the guy cared about nothing but the fact that TT didn't get him his favorite toy. Unbelievable.
Donald is too nice to do anything, but If'n I were him, I'd let Favre know how ridiculous he was.
quote:Originally posted by pablopackerfan:
Donald is too nice to do anything, but If'n I were him, I'd let Favre know how ridiculous he was.
I can't speak for him, but I'm pretty sure Driver wouldn't have minded Moss taking the top off the defense for him.
quote:Check out The Old Gunslinger at the 2:10 mark of the video.
Thanks, that's the one.
Now that I lost the whole "love Favre" thing, I can superimpose that play with Elway laying it on the line against the Pack in the SB loss and conclude, "Give me Elway."
I guess with a bigger picture (thinking over the period of a few years and focusing on the QB of the future - Rodgers), I'll just assume Rodgers benefited from the third year of not starting and I will also qualify things on the basis of what is ultimately best for THAT team (Rodger's team).
With that, I am fine we never got Moss.
With that, I am fine we never got Moss.