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This can't possibly end well.
30k could be for pens or Girl Scout cookies
We may never know
We may never know
Last time a guy owed me 30g, I kept track of it on a handwritten napkin from Denny's.
That kind of cash follows a better paper trail than a handwritten note. If MLB follows the money, it should be pretty easy to figure out if Braun was connected or not.
That kind of cash follows a better paper trail than a handwritten note. If MLB follows the money, it should be pretty easy to figure out if Braun was connected or not.
It amazes me how a sport can continually shoot itself in the foot after gaining ground again, especially a small market team like Milwaukee. On that list our some of MLB's brightest stars. And yet again, the meme on MLB will be buying championships through ridiculously unfair payrolls (e.g. Yankees vs Milwaukee), continue to allow cheaters not only in the sport but then make them cornerstones of it, and continue to foster an environment where star players will cheat because why? They can get away with it.
Braun's pee was probably tested in every way they could think of and yet if he was on PED's in 2012, he got away with it. He knew he would get away with it. And he knows the Crew can't afford to cut him and eat that payroll. What's his incentive (again IF he did take them) to not do it?
Braun's pee was probably tested in every way they could think of and yet if he was on PED's in 2012, he got away with it. He knew he would get away with it. And he knows the Crew can't afford to cut him and eat that payroll. What's his incentive (again IF he did take them) to not do it?
His excuse sounds reasonable, hopefully he can back it up
http://brewernation.mlblogs.co...ction-to-biogenesis/
“During the course of preparing my successful appeal last year, my attorneys, who were previously familiar with Tony Bosch, used him as a consultant. More specifically, he answered questions about T/E ratio and possibilities of tampering with samples.
“There was a dispute over compensation for Bosch’s work, which is why my lawyer and I are listed under “moneys owed” and not on any other list.
“I have nothing to hide and have never had any other relationship with Bosch.
“I will fully cooperate with any inquiry into this matter.”
“During the course of preparing my successful appeal last year, my attorneys, who were previously familiar with Tony Bosch, used him as a consultant. More specifically, he answered questions about T/E ratio and possibilities of tampering with samples.
“There was a dispute over compensation for Bosch’s work, which is why my lawyer and I are listed under “moneys owed” and not on any other list.
“I have nothing to hide and have never had any other relationship with Bosch.
“I will fully cooperate with any inquiry into this matter.”
Thank goodness that is resolved.
Now I can go back to bed....
Now I can go back to bed....
quote:Originally posted by Orlando Wolf:
Much ado over nothing...hopefully.
Won't be like last time but Mike and Mike just teased it. What sucks is it will give the uninformed another reason to yell and scream at every AB next season.
I just read the article and it seems to make perfect sense but that doesn't mean anything.
Will this news resurrect Packer Joe?
Mike and Mike has the worst bits (attempts at humor) I have ever heard. That stupid voice just said Ryan Braun once again crapped all over the sport.
I like the content of that program but the bits are juvenile and are never even borderline funny.
I like the content of that program but the bits are juvenile and are never even borderline funny.
I find it humorous that people think Ryan Braun, a millionaire many times over, would have some $20-30k unpaid "tab" for illegal drugs.
Bosch "Hey Ryan, this is the sixth time you've bought steroids for me. At $5,000 a pop, that's now 30 clams you owe me. And since your attorney is with you, and he's witnessed my telling you how much you owe, I'm just going to pick up my pencil, and write both your names down on this piece of notebook paper".
Or maybe he just decided to buy a lifetime supply of drugs, and he left his checkbook at home.
Pay to the order of Anthony Bosch $30,000.00
Thirty-thousand and 00/100 dollars
memo: lifetime supply of PED
Bosch "Hey Ryan, this is the sixth time you've bought steroids for me. At $5,000 a pop, that's now 30 clams you owe me. And since your attorney is with you, and he's witnessed my telling you how much you owe, I'm just going to pick up my pencil, and write both your names down on this piece of notebook paper".
Or maybe he just decided to buy a lifetime supply of drugs, and he left his checkbook at home.
Pay to the order of Anthony Bosch $30,000.00
Thirty-thousand and 00/100 dollars
memo: lifetime supply of PED
Here's an article on Fangraphs written by Wendy Thurm, who practiced law for twenty years, and spent "a great deal of time working with experts in high-stakes cases".
link
"Braun's Explaination on Biogenesis is Entirely Plausible"
A very good read.
link
"Braun's Explaination on Biogenesis is Entirely Plausible"
A very good read.
Mike and Mike are like everyone at ESPN - clueless pathetic idiots. They are nothing but DERP every morning. They still have no idea other than to construct outrage and stupidity.
quote:Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
Witch Hunt.
If it was Richard Sherman's name that showed up in those papers, would we be equally dismissive of this story?
I understand why we all want to believe Braun. For many of us, he's our favorite player on our favorite team. And moreover, he's the face of the franchise and comes across as an approachable and good guy.
But as much as I'm a fan of the guy, the realities of the Lance Armstrongs, Marion Jones, and hordes of MLBs who have used PEDs raises understandable skepticism for his claims and our ability as fans to objectively evaluate them.
Frankly, even without this latest episode, there's enough out there to remain skeptical over Braun. He claims (as do many Brewer fans) that his clearance last year wasn't just a technical procedural issue -- that the procedural irregularities somehow impacted the results of the test. Yet since then we've heard no explanation, scientific or procedural, on what could have possibly transpired that resulted in a positive result. Does improper storage create false positives? Did the guy handling it intentionally spike it? The Braun camp has offered no explanation.
It's his perogative not to offer an explanation - it certainly wasn't required to avoid suspension. But if he wants to be truly vindicated in the public eye and a reasonable explanation exists, I can't imagine why he or his lawyers haven't shared it publicly. At the time, Brewer fans were talking about possible litigation, etc., but none of that has come to pass so far and there's no indication that will happen. So to me, the lack of a public explanation of a positive test is the biggest red flag. Having his name show up in a PED doctor's notebook doesn't really change things for me.
MLB locked up the report, not Braun.
But I see your point. It would be naive to think that there isn't a rash of PED's in the sport, much less on the very team you root for.
Still, this seems pretty plausible to me, for a few reasons.
1) Braun's name was not linked to a PED like some of the other guys, which is exactly why his name didn't come up when this was first reported.
2) His lawyer's name shows up in the document ion just like Braun's.
C) The 20 or 30 grand thing seems out of place in the entire documentation, which leads me to believe the fee was for something outside of standard practice.
4) The nature of the connection Braun speaks of makes sense.
Doesn't mean Braun never took something, but it is not unreasonable to believe the connection in this instance was exactly as Braun stated.
But I see your point. It would be naive to think that there isn't a rash of PED's in the sport, much less on the very team you root for.
Still, this seems pretty plausible to me, for a few reasons.
1) Braun's name was not linked to a PED like some of the other guys, which is exactly why his name didn't come up when this was first reported.
2) His lawyer's name shows up in the document ion just like Braun's.
C) The 20 or 30 grand thing seems out of place in the entire documentation, which leads me to believe the fee was for something outside of standard practice.
4) The nature of the connection Braun speaks of makes sense.
Doesn't mean Braun never took something, but it is not unreasonable to believe the connection in this instance was exactly as Braun stated.
And the MLB was highly upset when the suspension was overturned.
Written by a guy named "Chicago Bear Jaw"... might as well let Harry Tinowitz write the thing.
People been takin' stuff forever.
There waas a recent quote from some sports writer asking Willie Stargell about his "young pills."
There waas a recent quote from some sports writer asking Willie Stargell about his "young pills."
quote:Originally posted by chickenboy:
People been takin' stuff forever.
There waas a recent quote from some sports writer asking Willie Stargell about his "young pills."
There is good evidence for baseball players taking steroid-related injections as far back as the 1880s.
http://bleacherreport.com/arti...godfather-of-juicing
I keep hearing about this "bill" as evidence against Braun. It is a handwritten note saying 20 or 30 grand. Who "bills" that way? Does the customer have the option to choose the lower amount? It is like on the show "pawn stars" when the person trying to sell their sentimental keepsake says they would like 1 or 2 grand for it.
I don't know if there is enough evidence for Braun to get suspended, but I don't like how his name is linked to these guys. It just smells bad. Major League Baseball was tuned in to him last year, but right now he's really under scrutiny. The question is, are the Brewers good enough to win without him?
That's the thing for me too. It's an embarrassment that I don't like associated with my team. I want to believe in Braun, but the flat denial doesn't work. They're all lying when they're caught. I've had enough of trying to rationalize it.
At the same time, there politics in this too. Guilt by association makes anyone an easy target. One a-hole trying to make a name for himself sees Braun's name on a friggin gum wrapper and all of a sudden he's Jose Canseco?
It's frustrating that the simply is no truth to be heard anymore...
At the same time, there politics in this too. Guilt by association makes anyone an easy target. One a-hole trying to make a name for himself sees Braun's name on a friggin gum wrapper and all of a sudden he's Jose Canseco?
It's frustrating that the simply is no truth to be heard anymore...
I wonder how many times Braun was tested last season. 10? 20? Look at his numbers from 2012 vs. other seasons. If he was juicing before it doesn't work very good or he was great in covering up his tests in 2012.
The fact of the matter is that if you are really committed to cheating chances are you can work the system and get around testing or masking the PEDs you are taking.
I'm not suggesting that Braun is juicing but in this day and age it wouldn't surprise me if he did. The part I don't understand is why associate yourself with somebody that is basically known to be supplying athletes with PEDs? Nothing good can come of that even if his story is true.
What's interesting to me is that MLB is supposed to have the most stringent testing policy in all of professional sports, yet we still see plenty of MLBers juicing and then getting busted later on. I shudder to think about what's going on in the NFL right now.
I'm not suggesting that Braun is juicing but in this day and age it wouldn't surprise me if he did. The part I don't understand is why associate yourself with somebody that is basically known to be supplying athletes with PEDs? Nothing good can come of that even if his story is true.
What's interesting to me is that MLB is supposed to have the most stringent testing policy in all of professional sports, yet we still see plenty of MLBers juicing and then getting busted later on. I shudder to think about what's going on in the NFL right now.
I have been reading about this for months, trying to set aside my personal feelings as a Brewer fan, and a Ryan Braun fan. And after looking objectively at everything I could find, I'm pretty much convinced he's innocent.
The only person that will ever really know the truth is Ryan Braun. And we have to accept that. It sucks, because we want to believe in him as one of the best players ever to wear the Brewer uniform. And like MC said, we don't want cheaters on our team.
But forget about any opinions you might have formulated by this point in time. The fact of the matter is that once the positive test result came out, Ryan was in an untenable position. He'd already started to work on his defense, and though he had not yet met with the three man arbitration panel, he was bound by the confidentiality clause. We wanted him to come out and explain in great detail what happened, and when it didn't come out, a lot of people immediately labeled him as guilty. After he won his appeal, and held his press conference, he said what he could. It still wasn't nearly enough in our eyes. But we have to remember he could still have his decision overturned if he violated the confidentiality clause of binding arbitration.
The only person that will ever really know the truth is Ryan Braun. And we have to accept that. It sucks, because we want to believe in him as one of the best players ever to wear the Brewer uniform. And like MC said, we don't want cheaters on our team.
But forget about any opinions you might have formulated by this point in time. The fact of the matter is that once the positive test result came out, Ryan was in an untenable position. He'd already started to work on his defense, and though he had not yet met with the three man arbitration panel, he was bound by the confidentiality clause. We wanted him to come out and explain in great detail what happened, and when it didn't come out, a lot of people immediately labeled him as guilty. After he won his appeal, and held his press conference, he said what he could. It still wasn't nearly enough in our eyes. But we have to remember he could still have his decision overturned if he violated the confidentiality clause of binding arbitration.
quote:Originally posted by Tschmack:
The fact of the matter is that if you are really committed to cheating chances are you can work the system and get around testing or masking the PEDs you are taking.
I'm not suggesting that Braun is juicing but in this day and age it wouldn't surprise me if he did. The part I don't understand is why associate yourself with somebody that is basically known to be supplying athletes with PEDs? Nothing good can come of that even if his story is true.
I'd be willing to bet the house that he wasn't juicing. If he took anything, it was to help him heal from that quad injury. But I don't think he's done anything against the rules. Everything that we've seen is highly questionable.
more damning that the first doc IMOFRO.
If anything, I think much less of Brauny for his insistence on not paying bills.
I am pretty eager to find out what handwritten note comes out next. I'm guessing something like "Do you want PED's?" followed by squares drawn on the paper, on labeled "yes" and one labeled "no."
If anything, I think much less of Brauny for his insistence on not paying bills.
I am pretty eager to find out what handwritten note comes out next. I'm guessing something like "Do you want PED's?" followed by squares drawn on the paper, on labeled "yes" and one labeled "no."
quote:I'd be willing to bet the house that he wasn't juicing. If he took anything, it was to help him heal from that quad injury. But I don't think he's done anything against the rules. Everything that we've seen is highly questionable.
This is the problem though (still) in MLB. Guys continue to cheat. I'd love to sit here and say Braun is 100% innocent but what I don't understand is why put yourself in a position for people to question your integrity or decision making?
Last year obviously the botched testing protocol and surrounding media scrutiny didn't impact his performance and in reality that's all I care about. The Brewers need him to play and play well if they have any chance of trying to make the postseason.
Tom H.
If this is Bosch's way of getting back at Braun for getting stiffed on a consulting fee, his reps probably wish they had paid in full with a handsome tip. An MLB investigation last year determined the original leak of Braun's positive drug test came from someone his defense team consulted in Florida, so you have to wonder what's going on down there.
I find this interesting. I hadn't heard the leak came from Florida before, and it may be simply coincidence. Lets say it was Bosch, and he leaked to the press that Braun had tested positive because he was pissy Braun's defense team wouldn't drop 20 grand on his consultation. Since he obviously was selling PED's to some guys in baseball, isn't his revenge tactic putting his own buisness at risk? I guess he could have leaked the info to the press and hoped the press wouldn't look back at him.
But you got to love Tom, he clearly didn't like people saying his strategy wouldn't work in the real world.
Amateur lawyers cite attorney-client privacy and "work product privilege" as reasons that evidence shouldn't be and won't be produced by Braun's side. They say it would be unwise to provide documentation that could be used against Braun down the road, that you should never reveal your cards under any circumstance.
The message here, don't trust amateur lawyers.
First of all, Braun can authorize release of any documentation that Bosch was used as a consultant. Second, this is not a court proceeding. MLB investigators have no subpoena power and can be told to get lost if they request further evidence of any kind from Braun's representatives.
Last, and certainly not least, if you're telling the truth, providing evidence that you are doing so is never something that should hurt you. It would be different if only one report had surfaced. But we're up to two and counting, and each time we go through these fire drills, harm is done to Braun.
Trust Tommy H. proffesional sports writer for legal advice.
If this is Bosch's way of getting back at Braun for getting stiffed on a consulting fee, his reps probably wish they had paid in full with a handsome tip. An MLB investigation last year determined the original leak of Braun's positive drug test came from someone his defense team consulted in Florida, so you have to wonder what's going on down there.
I find this interesting. I hadn't heard the leak came from Florida before, and it may be simply coincidence. Lets say it was Bosch, and he leaked to the press that Braun had tested positive because he was pissy Braun's defense team wouldn't drop 20 grand on his consultation. Since he obviously was selling PED's to some guys in baseball, isn't his revenge tactic putting his own buisness at risk? I guess he could have leaked the info to the press and hoped the press wouldn't look back at him.
But you got to love Tom, he clearly didn't like people saying his strategy wouldn't work in the real world.
Amateur lawyers cite attorney-client privacy and "work product privilege" as reasons that evidence shouldn't be and won't be produced by Braun's side. They say it would be unwise to provide documentation that could be used against Braun down the road, that you should never reveal your cards under any circumstance.
The message here, don't trust amateur lawyers.
First of all, Braun can authorize release of any documentation that Bosch was used as a consultant. Second, this is not a court proceeding. MLB investigators have no subpoena power and can be told to get lost if they request further evidence of any kind from Braun's representatives.
Last, and certainly not least, if you're telling the truth, providing evidence that you are doing so is never something that should hurt you. It would be different if only one report had surfaced. But we're up to two and counting, and each time we go through these fire drills, harm is done to Braun.
Trust Tommy H. proffesional sports writer for legal advice.
I'll take the words of somebody that actually served as an attorney for 20 years over a professional sportswriter.
Link
Tom has no clue what if any capacity Bosch served in Braun's defense a year ago, and if he was in any way involved in it, releasing paperwork could bite him in the ass down the road. This isn't some "internet lawyer", as Tommy puts it. This is somebody who actually passed the bar, and practiced for two decades, often in very similar cases, saying it.
Maybe Wendy Thurm knows just a little more than this "internet expert".
Link
Why didn’t Braun get out in front of the story? Why not disclose his connection to Bosch and Biogenesis after the New Times report last week? Two reasons. For one, Braun may not have known that the Biogenesis documents contained any reference to him. The New Times report didn’t identify Braun in any way. Why get out in front of a story without knowing the facts? Second, if Bosch was a behind-the-scenes consultant, then his identity and work on Braun’s appeal was privileged and confidential. If Braun had issued a broad statement disclosing everything he knows about Bosch, it could result — down the line — in a waiver of confidentiality. Braun’s statement today was narrowly crafted to address only the documents in Yahoo!’s report. If I were Braun’s attorney, I would have advised precisely the same approach.
Tom has no clue what if any capacity Bosch served in Braun's defense a year ago, and if he was in any way involved in it, releasing paperwork could bite him in the ass down the road. This isn't some "internet lawyer", as Tommy puts it. This is somebody who actually passed the bar, and practiced for two decades, often in very similar cases, saying it.
Maybe Wendy Thurm knows just a little more than this "internet expert".