Brewers trade Esteury Ruiz for an All-star catcher AND two pitchers?

Looks like a great trade even without knowing how good the prospect is. Contreras is an all-star catcher, a real thin position for the Brewers. Ruiz was in a logjam with 3 other prospects to make the Brewers so that was a position of strength. They have that super prospect probably only a couple years away as well.  https://www.brewcrewball.com/2...braves-and-athletics

Would anyone have questioned if Ruiz was traded for Payamps and Yeager? 

Maybe Ruiz turns into Willy Mayes Hayes, but this seems like a steal for the Crew

Altho they could not have anticipated what they got for Ruiz at the time, the Hader trade is not looking so bad now.

And since he seems a little weak in the defensive part of catching maybe Contreras  can learn to play 1st base and platoon with Rowdy.

And I still think these moves have to do with some big money, long term deals for Burnes, Woodruff and maybe Adames.   They will have a young relatively inexpensive, except for Yelich, outfield. A up and coming long term team control 2nd baseman in Truang and now a catcher in Contreras.   

A great team is supposed to be strong up the middle. With the Brewers pitching, a promising guy in Truang,  multiple guys in center along with a young catcher in Contreras they will be strong up the middle.

The moves have nothing to do with potential Burnes or Woodruff extensions. The Hader trade is still horrible. Don’t kid yourself.

With rules scaling back on the shift Ruiz got a lot more valuable but Milwaukee doesn’t need him given depth in OF positions.  It’s a good deal all things considered.

Still, if you look further ATL got better as well.  

Oh, I'm not kidding myself.   You are just sore because with all your baseball management knowledge the Brewers don't do what you want them to do. Just like you are with the Badgers and the Packers.

I wonder if another team offered to take the Yelich contract off their hands while also taking Woodruff or Burnes for an less than full market return, would the Brewers do it?

@ammo posted:

Altho they could not have anticipated what they got for Ruiz at the time, the Hader trade is not looking so bad now.

And since he seems a little weak in the defensive part of catching maybe Contreras  can learn to play 1st base and platoon with Rowdy.

I think Contreras will be the full-time C. Navarez was a poor defensive C when they got him and I'm sure they feel they Contreras can be coached up.

The only issue I have with the Hader trade was the timing but he was pitching poorly at the time and his value was slipping. If not for Hader falling apart they may have kept him until the offseason like they should have. They threw away any real chance they had last year trading him midseason.

@PackerRick posted:

The only issue I have with the Hader trade was the timing but he was pitching poorly at the time and his value was slipping. If not for Hader falling apart they may have kept him until the offseason like they should have. They threw away any real chance they had last year trading him midseason.

They signaled to their clubhouse that they were giving up on the season, especially when they DFA'd Limet. If they'd have planned to keep Limet at least you could have said that we got back a poor man's version of Hader (Rogers) and got a starting pitcher who had gotten Cy Young votes less than two years previously to bolster the rotation and/or long relief corps. Instead, they let Limet go for nothing and ended up using Jason Alexander in that role instead. Then, they compounded that error (perhaps trying to appease the clubhouse) by overpaying for Bush from Texas and throwing away 5 million dollars on Rosenthal for nothing.

I think they could have gotten just as much for Hader right now and had him for the last two months of the season. Hader for Contreras (a lower-tier all-star with multiple years of control) and two mid-level pitching prospects seems about right.

Hader's wife was having a difficult pregnancy and his performance was probably affected by it. The Brewers sold low in August, but Oakland seemed to want Ruiz so badly they drastically overpaid in December. Essentially, this was two separate trades (it didn't need to be a three part one).

Murphy going to the Braves for everyone else involved in the trade except for Ruiz, and then Ruiz going to the A's for Contreras, Yeager, and Payampas. The number 8 prospect in your organization for a all-star DH (and potential catcher), a decent middle reliever (Payampas), and a high-ceiling/low-floor prospect like Yeager seems like a ridiculous return. Oakland must be gambling that the new rules make speed much more valuable on the basepaths, but Ruiz seems a lot like what Pat Listach was and Listach was never going to be a star.

The Hader trade probably needed to be done because Milwaukee wasn’t going to pay him market value for his last 2 arbitration years.  Still, the timing was awful.  He was in a slump and it killed the mojo and chemistry in the clubhouse and effectively derailed the rest of the season.

The time to trade him was either before or after the season.  

By the way, I think he ended up pitching just fine for San Diego once he settled down and his family life improved.

This latest deal was a nice recovery in that Contreras really improves the lineup offensively and it’s that type of bat they needed at the deadline.   Payampas is a solid relief guy as well.   Yeager is the classic boom or bust guy but the fact he was basically a throw in makes this trade heavily tilted in Milwaukee’s favor.  

Ruiz is going to have to become an elite OBP% and base stealing runs scored guy for this trade to even out, although, the As also got back a really good (younger) catching prospect in Shea Langeliers and the Braves upgraded with a better catcher in Sean Murphy.  

Overall, I think the trade addressed needs for all of the teams but it sure seems like Oakland gave up a lot in this deal.

If another team offered to take on Yelich as part of a salary dump with Burnes or Woodruff I think the Brewers would absolutely consider it.  

I didn’t realize this until today but according to Spotrac there’s a 12 year deferral of 28M for Yelich - at a cool 2.33M per year until 2042.  

I may be the only one but I have not given up on Yelich yet.  He was only 1 year removed from a very serious injury.  He at one time was leading the league in hard hit balls last season, many were just hit right at somebody.   And now that the shift is gone he may have an entirely different season. If the young guys that will be joining the outfield perform up to their AAA standards Yelich can be moved down in the order and he won't feel the pressure to be the guy that carries the team.

The JJ Hardy tree

Heard this on some sports talk radio show this morning.  It makes a lot more sense to read it now.  Thanks for the link.   

@ammo posted:

I may be the only one but I have not given up on Yelich yet.  He was only 1 year removed from a very serious injury.  He at one time was leading the league in hard hit balls last season, many were just hit right at somebody.   And now that the shift is gone he may have an entirely different season. If the young guys that will be joining the outfield perform up to their AAA standards Yelich can be moved down in the order and he won't feel the pressure to be the guy that carries the team.

You might be right. When Yelich was at his best he was driving the ball to left center. With the shift they can pitch a guy accordingly and Yelich hit a ton of ground balls to the right side. Tellez might be a big beneficiary of the new shift rules too. I like Yelich as a leadoff hitter.

@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:

The JJ Hardy tree

Awesome story.

@Tschmack posted:

I didn’t realize this until today but according to Spotrac there’s a 12 year deferral of 28M for Yelich - at a cool 2.33M per year until 2042.  

Somewhere Bobby Bonilla is smiling.

@ammo posted:

Altho they could not have anticipated what they got for Ruiz at the time, the Hader trade is not looking so bad now.

And since he seems a little weak in the defensive part of catching maybe Contreras  can learn to play 1st base and platoon with Rowdy.

I agree, and that’s even with Hader seemingly returning to form. His first month in San Diego was pretty awful, but since then, across 15 regular and post season appearances, Hader has been lights out.

24 year old controllable catchers with that kind of offensive upside don’t grow on trees. We weren’t likely to resign Hader, so regardless of what the other two ultimately do, Contreras could be one heck of a net positive for the Brewers.

He was markedly below average defensively this past year, but he was a league average (0 Rtot) defensive catcher in 2021. So maybe he can stick behind the plate with a bit more work.

Regardless, his bat will play well at AFF.

@ammo posted:

I may be the only one but I have not given up on Yelich yet.  He was only 1 year removed from a very serious injury.  He at one time was leading the league in hard hit balls last season, many were just hit right at somebody.   And now that the shift is gone he may have an entirely different season. If the young guys that will be joining the outfield perform up to their AAA standards Yelich can be moved down in the order and he won't feel the pressure to be the guy that carries the team.

I haven’t given up on him, either.

Yelich’s willingness to adapt his play to help the team win makes it impossible not to pull for the guy. Moving to the lead off position, maintaining a high OBP, being a real threat as a base stealer…shows he’s a team player, and he’s not a slave to ego. He’s playing to maximize his current skill set.

He doesn’t run as often as some others do-which might be partly due to his back and knee issues- but since coming to Milwaukee, he’s been one of the best in the game, stealing 84 bases in 98 tries-a whopping 85.7% win rate.

If I remember correctly, during a Brewers game I watched this past season, a graphic was shown that Yelich still displayed elite exit velocity on fly balls. The power is still there.

The problem is that he’s hitting far more ground balls than at any time in a Brewers uniform:

Year, Ground ball pct.

2018 52.2

2019 42.8

2020 51.6

2021 55.0

2021 58.4

For comparison’s sake, Aaron Judge had a 37% ground ball rate this year.

Is this more due to a change in his swing mechanics-which would be understandable given his injury issues. Or, was his swing tweaked in some way?

I saw the man hit at least two mammoth home runs this last year. He can still hit it out of any park. But the issue seems to be a lack of consistent elevation.

Getting back to the Yelich discussion, I agree that he's still a guy you root for, he seems to keep working hard to improve, and he's not a guy that shouldn't be playing as a major leaguer. The problem is that he should be getting paid somewhere between 5-10 million a year, not 26 million on a team where he'll take up something like 20% of their total payroll.

If the Brewers were a large market team, it wouldn't matter what Yelich's contract was. On the Brewers, his contract soaks up so much money that a frugal owner like Attanasio can use it justify (at least internally) not spending big money on any free agents or extensions.