Bucks in danger of getting blown out to start.
Down 27-17
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
This might be approaching rock bottom. Bucks trailing 40-24 after one. Grizzlies missing
Vince Williams Jr., GG Jackson, Marcus Smart, Cam Spencer, Desmond Bane, Luke Kennard
I fear Jon Horst has irrevocably ruined this team.
And he doesn’t think there’s any possibility that we miss the playoffs.
Dame Lillard is a complete liability tonight. Bucks are -21 in his 11 minutes. He is scoreless and getting abused on defense.
They are +3 in Giannis' 15 minutes.
Down 20 going into half.
Lillard has been awful. Lopez looks like toast.
This team is a fucking disaster.
Bucks down 70-48 at the half. Absolutely pathetic.
Dame Lillard has a -31 plus/minus. He has just been awful on almost all levels.
@Tschmack posted:Down 20 going into half.
Lillard has been awful. Lopez looks like toast.
This team is a fucking disaster.
Lillard playing like he doesn't give a shit.
Doc Rivers is stealing money at this point.
Giannis is 8 for 11. The rest of the team is 13 for 39 and 3 for 21 from three.
The problem is Horst isn’t much better than Doc. He was ready to bail to Detroit and ended up staying. You think his heart is with this team?
@Tschmack posted:The problem is Horst isn’t much better than Doc. He was ready to bail to Detroit and ended up staying. You think his heart is with this team?
The most annoying thing is that having Gary Trent Jr. instead of Beasley should make this team a lot better. It's not even close since Trent isn't a traffic cone on defense.
The current team might as well be the pre-Giannis version. They look like they are just going through the motions way too often.
Marques Johnson has come very close to calling out Dame as being lazy tonight. Dame is not even bothering to even attempt to box out. It's really obvious.
Grizzlies have 3 uncontested lob dunks to start the second half. This is really bad. Dame is 1 for 9 and giving no effort. It will never happen, but he needs to be benched. Actually, if they could trade him for Jrue Holiday that would be good.
Remember when the Bucks were good?
I remember.
@PackerHawk posted:Remember when the Bucks were good?
I remember.
I'd settle for them actually looking like they cared at this point.
Down 95-65 in the third.
The Bucks are -5 in the 24 minutes Giannis has played.
They are -25 in the in the 10 minutes he's sat. When Giannis is off the court, they have almost nothing going for them.
99-70 Grizzlies after three.
Bucks are 6 for 32 from three. 6 for 13 from the line.
I figured this year would be the Bucks’ last shot of doing anything significant thanks to the ages of their core players.
It’s really disappointing for them to start out this poorly. I mean, we all know the regular season means very little, but you can’t be THIS bad for too much longer. Right now they look like they wouldn’t even make it to a play-in game.
3 Bucks in double digits in scoring. All but 2, or 3 Grizzlies are in double figures.
You think this is bad, you should tune into the Texans-Jets game.
Giannis goes for 37 points on 17 for 22 from the floor with 11 rebounds and 4 assists. And the Bucks are going to lose by at least 20.
It's hard to capture how awful Dame was. No effort, no hustle, 1 for 11 from the floor.
@fightphoe93 posted:I figured this year would be the Bucks’ last shot of doing anything significant thanks to the ages of their core players.
It’s really disappointing for them to start out this poorly. I mean, we all know the regular season means very little, but you can’t be THIS bad for too much longer. Right now they look like they wouldn’t even make it to a play-in game.
Their upcoming schedule includes the next two against the undefeated Cavs, a game against the Jazz, and then the Knicks and Celtics. They are 1-4 right now. It's looking pretty likely they could start the season 2-8 (and that's assuming they can beat the Jazz).
Over-under on how long it takes ownership to can both Doc and Horst?
The Dame experiment is over. They won’t fire Doc Rivers so the only logical move is to deal Lillard.
If you wait too long the season will be over before it started.
They probably would only get 75 cents on the dollar but they need to make this happen.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:
Hey great! Let's give up Jrue + (3) 1st rounders for Dame and get back SHIT for it.
@Tschmack posted:The Dame experiment is over. They won’t fire Doc Rivers so the only logical move is to deal Lillard.
1 thing you're missing is Giannis will want out.
Sure glad we got 1 chip when we did. It'll probably be another 50 years for the next one
Well, for sure, something is rotten in Denmark with the Bucks so far this year. We can all speculate on what is wrong, but I believe only team insiders know whats really going on behind the scenes.
@Boris posted:Hey great! Let's give up Jrue + (3) 1st rounders for Dame and get back SHIT for it.
1 thing you're missing is Giannis will want out.
Sure glad we got 1 chip when we did. It'll probably be another 50 years for the next one
I know it's shit for Dame, but sitting on a contract that will pay him 55 million next year with a player option for 60 million the following year is not a good situation. It pushes them well into the 2nd apron and prevents them from improving the team because they don't have the MLE to spend, etc.
The Lakers would be one team that would still want Dame because they are more about the show and the entertainment value than actually trying to win at this point. Maybe the Lakers throw in a few picks.
The Jrue trade is a sunk cost at this point. Dame still has value, but it is not what it was last year at this time. 60 million (more like well over 100 million with the luxury cap second apron penalties) is not money well spent on a 36 year old undersized guard who struggled to defend guys when he was younger. A lot of people wanted to compare Dame to Steph, but Steph is great with the ball, running off screens, and being a spot-up shooter. Dame is great with the ball, but is not a guy to run off screens without the ball for shots, and he's not really that great a spot-up shooter. I think many of us thought wee were getting at least a middle-class version of Steph when we made the Dame trade, but we really just got a Zach Levine (a great isolation offensive player with a lot of limitiations). Levine is a 38% 3 point shooter for his career, Dame is at 37%, Steph is at 43%. It's a huge difference. Dame is a scorer that needs a lot of shots. Middleton may actually be a better halfcourt scorer as you get deeper in the playoffs, and is certainly a better partner for Giannis.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:Middleton may actually be a better halfcourt scorer as you get deeper in the playoffs, and is certainly a better partner for Giannis.
Sure, when he's actually.....you know.....PLAYING.
FML....5 games in and we should blow it all up eh?
I'm just.....this sucks 
@DurangoDoug posted:Well, for sure, something is rotten in Denmark with the Bucks so far this year. We can all speculate on what is wrong, but I believe only team insiders know whats really going on behind the scenes.
They really do miss Middleton, but he's not going to magically change the team into a title contender when he comes back. A lot of people like to bash Khris, but he could shoot 50/40/90 every year while getting 14 or 15 shots a game. He played defense and was content being the second banana who would often go entire quarters without getting shots, but then be expected to shoot 7-8 contested jumpers in crunch time when the defense locked in against them in the halfcourt.
Lillard is used to jacking up 20-25 shots a game and having a constant green light. He isn't like Middleton in that he can just turn it on wjhen they need him in the 4th quarter. Until he got hurt in the Pacers series, he was putting up big numbers, but that was when he didn't have Giannis taking away his touches and allowing him to get into a rhythm.
Giannis is the same way. He doesn't want to stand around without the ball on offense and score 12 points. There is no synergy between them at all. Middleton (and also Jrue) knew their roles and weren't trying to cement their legacies as top 50 players all time.
To win with this lineup, Lillard either needs to change his approach and become more like late-career Ray Allen and be a secondary player who average 16-18 a game on fewer shots with more efficiency, OR, Giannis needs to change his approach and become Draymond Green on steroids (a triple double threat every game, but not the primary focus on offense). I don't think either of them will sacrifice for this.
I really think their best route to try to right the ship is to ship Lillard out for 75 cents on the dollar if they can get it and get back 2-3 decent 3 and D wings and a couple of future picks.
@Boris posted:Sure, when he's actually.....you know.....PLAYING.
FML....5 games in and we should blow it all up eh?
I'm just.....this sucks
I agree. The decision to blow up a team with great chemistry and a clear identity after losing in the playoffs two years in a row without Middleton (2022) and then with Giannis missing time (2023) was the problem. They win a title in 2022 with Middleton healthy, and if Love doesn't undercut Giannis in Game 1 in 2023, they easily get by the Heat.
Bud has his flaws, but if he was still here (no matter who was on the roster - Dame or Jrue) they'd know exactly what their identity was. The Dame trade looked good on paper, but there is no chemistry between him and Giannis and no organization overarching plan to develop it. Bud would have installed something to try to optimize it. Doc Rivers is underwhelming to say the least.
It’s not just no chemistry between Giannis and Dame, as MP2 stated, it’s a bad fit.
Dame is really an undersized ball dominant 2 guard. So he needs the ball and is going to take a crapload of shots. You would think he and Giannis would absolutely kill it at pick and roll but that’s not Dame’s style.
For this to work, Dame has to feed Giannis early and often otherwise 34 is just standing around. But that’s not in Lillard’s nature.
For all his flaws offensively that’s where Holiday knew his role. And he wasn’t a complete liability on defense like Dame.
As for Middleton, he isn’t going to fix this issue. They made a mistake adding Lillard. He needs to go.
I think the rest of the team is seeing Lillards lack of effort/production and it's rubbing off on them. The "Here we go again " when Dame isn't making his shots, turning the ball over and doesn't appear to even try to play D. I had high hopes for him when they signed him but I think it just boils down to him not wanting to be in Milwaukee.
So what is Lillard really worth in a trade ? Surely not what the Bucks gave him but could they get a return that would actually make the team younger and better this season ? Next season ? Maybe. If the Bucks got really lucky. Do you trade Gannis too if he's unhappy about trading Lillard ?
I never thought that this would be a topic of conversation this early in this season but this team isn't playing up to it's potential ... again.
Dame Lillard is too damn talented to be playing as poorly as he has been lately. Since the opener against Philly, his 3pt shooting has been horrific and his defense has been even worse. It looks to me he’s just going through the motions.
Giannis is still Giannis so it would seem to me that if a move is to be made it’s Lillard. I’m not exactly sure what they could get in return but at this point if they got a starting PG and decent role player back I’d be fine with it.