Breaking news: the Bucks have terminated the employment of Bucks head coach Adrian Griffin.
Wow!
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Maybe the Packers can take a lead from the Bucks. Paging Joe Barry!
I feel bad for the guy, but it just felt like there was just a ton of underachieving going on this year. There aren’t going to be very many opportunities for Dame and Giannis to win Championships and it appeared there was very little chance it could ever happen under Griffin.
The bad news is… trying to find a good coach right now is going to be tough. There is enough time to recover from this though, I think.
I watch most of the games. Their defensive schemes are some of the worst I've ever seen and they weren't going to win a playoff series unless they averaged 140 points a game (which was possible against some teams, but not against the Celtics or Heat).
The optics are horrible though. They are 30-13. After starting the year 5-4, they are 25-9 and 24-5 against everyone other than the Pacers.
The problem is that the record is a bit of a mirage. They beat the Warriors without Steph and Draymond. They beat the Celtics when they were coming off a back-to-back game that went OT the previous night. More importantly, they got to play 10 games (and went 10-0) against some truly terrible teams - Pistons (4), Wizards (2), Spurs (2), Hornets (1), and Blazers (1). Most of those games were close into the 4th quarter. They don't have many games left against terrible teams anymore relative to what they've benefitted from.
The upcoming schedule is going to be very tough before the all-star break: Cavs, Cavs, at Nuggets, Pelicans, at Mavs, at Jazz, at Suns, Wolves, Hornets, Nuggets, Heat, at Memphis. You'd think that the Hornets and Grizzlies games should be gimmes, but the other 10 are against good teams, many on the road. They were probably looking at a 3-7 type stretch with Griffin before the all-star break. Now Prunty is going to be coaching some of those games and he (or whoever the new coach will be) is going to look bad just given who they are playing.
This is the equivalent of the Packers firing Ray Rhodes after a winning record in 1999 even though Favre was dinged up most of that year. I think everyone could see it wasn't going to result in title contention, but the record still looked good. It still takes some cajones to do this if you are Horst, especially when Woj is saying on the air this wasn't a Giannis decision.
@fightphoe93 posted:I feel bad for the guy, but it just felt like there was just a ton of underachieving going on this year. There aren’t going to be very many opportunities for Dame and Giannis to win Championships and it appeared there was very little chance it could ever happen under Griffin.
The bad news is… trying to find a good coach right now is going to be tough. There is enough time to recover from this though, I think.
The best available coach for this time right now is Mike Budenholzer.
It's never going to happen, but how often is a guy who was coach of the year for two different teams, who has won a title less than 3 years ago with this group, and knows almost all the personnel available in situations like this?
Dammit! Now I might have to pay to watch the Bucks again.
Next up, Joe Barry!
@MichiganPacker posted:The best available coach for this time right now is Mike Budenholzer.
Do you think Budenholzer would WANT to come back to this shit show??
No.....I am interested in Terry Stotts though. Doc Rivers wouldn't be bad, but also wouldn't be my first choice either.
@Boris posted:Do you think Budenholzer would WANT to come back to this shit show??
No.....I am interested in Terry Stotts though. Doc Rivers wouldn't be bad, but also wouldn't be my first choice either.
The problem with hiring Doc Rivers is this. He's a very experienced regular season coach who has won 59% of his regular season games. He's been the NBA coach of the year once and has been in the top 5 in voting for coach of the year 5 times in his career. He's been successful with multiple franchises. He's won one title, but has been criticized for blowing series when he had the superior team by failing to make adjustments.
Mike Budenholzer is a very experienced regular season coach who has won 61% of his regular season games. He's been NBA coach of the year twice and has been in the top 6 in voting 4 other times. He's been successful with multiple franchises. He's won one title but has been criticized for blowing series when he had the superior team by failing to make adjustments. He had a terrible last 10 seconds of regulation and OT in his last game as Bucks coach, but in the 4 seasons he coached the Bucks that he didn't win a title, three of them were under difficult circumstances. In 2019, he lost in 6 games to the Raptors when Giannis went 18 for 36 from the line in the final 4 games and Eric Bledsoe went 4 for 18 from three in those same 4 games. In 2020, they lost in the bubble. That's a weird season to evaluate. They won in 2021. In 2022, Middleton was hurt and Holiday went 5 for 28 from three in their losses. In 2023, Giannis got hurt and went 14 for 31 from the line when he came back and Holiday was 8 for 32 from three.
So, outside the bubble year, if Giannis hits FTs at even a 70% clip and the point guard shoots even 33% from three, they win more titles.
They went and got Dame to fix the point guard shooting problems and it made sense because if Holiday was going to get roasted by Tatum and Butler like he did, he wasn't an asset. Might as well let Dame get roasted and have him make shots on the other end.
How is moving from Mike Budenholzer to Doc Rivers an upgrade at any level? The last playoff game was awful in terms of timeout management for Bud, but Rivers has been roasted for the same thing.
@Boris posted:Called it! 🤣
Yes, but did you put money down on it? ☺️
@Tschmack posted:Maybe the Packers can take a lead from the Bucks. Paging Joe Barry!
I’m all for a “two for Tuesday”!
I just heard Howard Stern in my head, haha.
It was reported that last night Giannis was actually drawing up plays with a pen in the 3rd quarter to get the defense going and basically doing the job Griffin was supposed to do.
If true, sorry that’s just a shit show. The Bucks have a window to win another championship but it’s not a huge opening. They have to do what they needed to now and I get it.
@fightphoe93 posted:I feel bad for the guy, but it just felt like there was just a ton of underachieving going on this year. There aren’t going to be very many opportunities for Dame and Giannis to win Championships and it appeared there was very little chance it could ever happen under Griffin.
The bad news is… trying to find a good coach right now is going to be tough. There is enough time to recover from this though, I think.
Agreed, but I like the move. It shows accountability, and that this team demands nothing less than excellence. Ownership (and no doubt a couple big names) has seen enough. Rip the band-aid off, and let the healing begin.
And it’s a heads up to all available candidates that a spot coaching the Greek Freak and Dame is now available.
@lambeausouth posted:I’m all for a “two for Tuesday”!
I just heard Howard Stern in my head, haha.
Wish I could have!😁
@lambeausouth posted:I’m all for a “two for Tuesday”!
I just heard Howard Stern in my head, haha.
Fla-Fla....floo - hi
@MichiganPacker posted:The best available coach for this time right now is Mike Budenholzer.
It's never going to happen, but how often is a guy who was coach of the year for two different teams, who has won a title less than 3 years ago with this group, and knows almost all the personnel available in situations like this?
Do it. This team won a title with Bud, and now he’d have a God damned assassin from the perimeter to play with.
If it takes an “Elizabeth Taylor as Cleopatra entering Rome” spectacle, do it. No need to just throw the remainder of the season away. Send the company jet and fly his ass back to beer town.
@Boris posted:Do you think Budenholzer would WANT to come back to this shit show??
No.....I am interested in Terry Stotts though. Doc Rivers wouldn't be bad, but also wouldn't be my first choice either.
I’m for whoever can right this ship, and fast. Just win, baby!
@Boris posted:Wish I could have!😁
Fla-Fla....floo - hi
“I’ve got your potato, boff.”
There is no perfect fit, and whatever we do right now doesn’t have to be the long term answer, obviously. If it’s a shit show, bring in someone that already has a working relationship with much of the players on the roster.
@lambeausouth posted:Do it. This team won a title with Bud, and now he’d have a God damned assassin from the perimeter to play with.
The question is, would Bud use the assassin or worry more about him playing defense??
Definitely need a coach that's going to maximize the strengths of this entire team.
It seems to me that a guy like Atkinson or Stotts might do it over the perceived pitfalls of Doc.
They don't have much time. They must get this ship righted before the All-Star break
No to Coach Bud. He’s a different version of Griffin. Won’t change or adapt and probably cost them at least one more title due to his dumbass substitutions and tendencies.
Doc Rivers is clearly an upgrade over Griffin, but honestly, I’d go with Terry Stotts. Not totally enamored with Atkinson either. Too bad Lue and Ham are spoken for.
It’s crazy how different the Bucks are compared to Badgers and Brewers and Packers. I applaud the Bucks for not pulling a Joe Barry or Paul Chryst and sticking with someone that’s clearly ineffective or has lost their way. Hear that MLF?
Doc Rivers already in negotiations.
Not a fan, but hope to be proved wrong. As Tschmack says, definitely an upgrade over Griffin.
Any playoff series against the Celtics or Sixers will be a little extra interesting.
@Boris posted:They don't have much time. They must get this ship righted before the All-Star break
Agreed. And there will be a period of adjustment, meaning we might lose some games we should win.
But this was a move that had to be done. Dame is still an elite scorer. Giannis is elite on both ends (God, I wish he could hit free throws). But the time when that is not the case could come knocking at any point in the future. I pray they both stay healthy.
More than anything right now, I’m happy to see the front office kicking it into high gear. Too many times in the past, I’ve watched seasons waste away because changes were not made at the top. Thankfully, ownership is doing what needed to be done.
Maybe us thinking Doc isn't the ultimate best choice bodes well. Hope so
He just took the job. The Doc is IN!
Holy shit, that was way too quick. I'd say there's a 0% chance they weren't talking to him before today.
@PackerHawk posted:Holy shit, that was way too quick. I'd say there's a 0% chance they weren't talking to him before today.
I know Doc has his flaws, but the Bucks are 30-13 and just improved significantly at head coach. And that’s not even necessarily a compliment to Doc. I’m excited to see how it works out. 🤷♂️
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) January 24, 2024
The dysfunction in Milwaukee under Griffin stories are starting to trickle out more.
I think it was one of those things that they knew was not going to work even back in training camp but couldn't pull the plug on it before he even coached a game. The thing with Stotts was the canary in the coal mine. I'm sure Stotts got to the point where he was trying to suppress rolling his eyes all the time and Giannis and Dame were going to talk to him after practices because he's the one that actually knew what was going on.
Griffin in Toronto was probably the confidant and good cop to Nurse's bad cop. All the players that ever worked with Griffin as an assistant seemed to love him. I'm sure he talked a good game, but they had to know when he put in a defensive scheme that asked Brook Lopez to chase and trap guys on the perimeter that he had no idea what he was doing without Nick Nurse to guide him. Lopez was not some 8th or 9th guy coming off the bench. They had just signed him for 2 years and 50 million to be a cornerstone of the defense. The scheme which has Portis and Giannis chasing guys to trap on the perimeter also takes Portis away from the defensive board and takes who is likely the best help defender in NBA history (Giannis) away from the basket and from being able to deter drives to the paint. If you wanted to design a defense to minimize the effectiveness of their current personnel, it would have been Griffin's. I'm sure Stotts saw this and was looking for any reason to get off the Titanic. They won games because they had two of the top 10 offensive players in the NBA right now and a third option (when his minutes went up) who is multiple time all star and a great shooter. They score points in any scheme. The bench guys look terrible because the offensive schemes don't do anything to help them. Connaughton as a driver? Give me a break.
The other thing leaked to the press yesterday was that Nick Nurse was the Bucks' first choice but Giannis basically asked for anyone but him. I don't blame Giannis on that one. The Raptors players almost universally hated Nurse by the end of the his time there and he wore guys out by playing them major minutes, didn't develop young talent, and drove some guys out of town.
I wanted Kenny Atkinson last summer. I really want Bud back, but that's not going to happen.
It’s going to be Doc. Not great, but we all know Griffin had to go. Horst not looking great on these recent coaching moves.
I think Giannis had too much input in the new coach to be honest. Shouldn't the front office been aware that Griffin's defensive scheme wasn't going to work with the personnel group? Getting rid of Stotts was a bad look and I am sure it alienated Lilliard. Stotts probably would have helped us build better cohesion on O. I don't get the bring back Bud narrative. The guy is all about drop D which won't win us a Championship. I felt he was a little too stuck in his ways. Griffin was open to playing the young guys which was pretty much his only redeeming characteristic.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/...onship-minded-bucks/
Scathing article on Rivers. CBS is pissed they didn't get the "scoop" on Rivers hire.
Let's see if it's more of the same with rivers and an early playoff exit or if he improves. If it's the former, he won't even make it to next season
@The Crusher posted:I think Giannis had too much input in the new coach to be honest. Shouldn't the front office been aware that Griffin's defensive scheme wasn't going to work with the personnel group? Getting rid of Stotts was a bad look and I am sure it alienated Lilliard. Stotts probably would have helped us build better cohesion on O. I don't get the bring back Bud narrative. The guy is all about drop D which won't win us a Championship. I felt he was a little too stuck in his ways. Griffin was open to playing the young guys which was pretty much his only redeeming characteristic.
Griffin's scheme did make a little more sense if your backcourt is Jrue Holiday and, to a lesser extent, G. Allen. Holiday is top 10 backcourt defender all-time and G. Allen is at least competent.
My guess is that Griffin probably spent a lot of time thinking about the scheme to fit Holiday from when he was hired until the week before training camp. It was probably part of his selling point during the interview process. It would still be questionable to try this with Brook Lopez (who looked almost comical trapping guys at the 3 point line the first 5 games), but they hadn't even resigned Lopez yet when they hired Griffin.
Then, the Dame trade happened and a starting backcourt of Beasley and Dame is one you scheme to minimize defensive deficiencies, not accentuate a superstar defender like Jrue. But it appears, Griffin just decided to go forward like he was planning before the Lillard trade.
The Stotts situation was complicated as well. They hired him June 5th, almost 4 months before they traded for Dame. It was always going to be a little weird with him and a first-time coach given Stotts' experience, but it really got weird when they traded for Dame. I don't think they ever hire Stotts as an assistant if they get Dame. Stotts coached Dame for 9 years and got to a conference title game. How was Dame ever going to listen to Griffin when he has a decade with Stotts?
Then, when Stotts quit, there was no veteran presence on the bench and players on the Bucks lost trust when it became apparent that Nurse was likely entirely responsible for the schematic success in Toronto.
The Bucks players were going playground and calling their own plays.
It will be interesting to see how quick Doc Rivers implements his own scheme. THey'll have to learn it on the fly.
@Boris posted:https://www.cbssports.com/nba/...onship-minded-bucks/
Scathing article on Rivers. CBS is pissed they didn't get the "scoop" on Rivers hire.
Let's see if it's more of the same with rivers and an early playoff exit or if he improves. If it's the former, he won't even make it to next season
Still would much rather have Bud than Rivers.
Yeah but would Bud want to come back?? I'm sure he's laughing and sipping whiskey right now 🥃
I remember this series vs. PORTLAND.... That's when I fell in love with Dame 🥰😁
The whole thread talks about the losses
2016: Led Blazers 2-0
— DJ_B0B (@DJ_B0B) January 24, 2024
In this #4 vs #5 matchup both home teams held serve to tie it up at 2-2. Unfortunately both Chris Paul AND Blake Griffin got hurt in game 4. Glenn coached valiantly but the hospital Clippers lost by 3 to the GOAT Damian Lillard in game 6. pic.twitter.com/4sFK6i7Anv