@Music City posted:Too little, too late...
Too little early, middle and late
Middleton almost turns it over again
This is an extremely sloppy and undisciplined team. It’s been this way since they arrived in the bubble. 15-20 turnovers a game. Coach Bud needs to step the fuck up and explain himself because that’s coaching and preparation and substitutions
Giannis is the anti Sam Cassell. Cassell drove you nuts a lot of the time, but when it was crunch time he often came through. Giannis looks like Tarzan most of the time, but turns into Jane when it counts. If you hadn't seen him play before this series, you'd never think he was a superstar.
Definitely not a good job of adjusting to the matchups. The Bucks got their best on ball defender back, and it helped, but it wasn’t enough because offensively they just peed down their leg. The poor offense lead to bad defense and that was the difference.
To early to suggest that The Greek is almost in the circle of the great free thrower Shaq?? 
If Giannis doesn't choke on the line, this is much different situation
@Goldie posted:To early to suggest that The Greek is almost in the circle of the great free thrower Shaq??
No. He shrinks in the moment when he has to think about things.
Butler trying to do the city of Milwaukee a solid the last 10 seconds.
Fuck this pandemic. And Fuck 2020
The Bucks were going to steamroll everyone before this shit hit the fan.
Exactly what I thought might happen is happening. I'm pretty much done with sports especially when Giannis leaves for Golden State because Milwaukee "can't win a championship"
Attachments
At this point, I’d say let the Knicks throw absolutely mad money at Giannis, dump Middleton and Bledsoe as soon as possible (going to be awhile for Middleton, I imagine because of enormous bad contract), essentially blow the entire team up and tank. Build through the draft, see what happens in FA a few years down the road. This iteration of the Bucks has peaked.
@tsr86free posted:At this point, I’d say let the Knicks throw absolutely mad money at Giannis, dump Middleton and Bledsoe as soon as possible (going to be awhile for Middleton, I imagine because of enormous bad contract), essentially blow the entire team up and tank. Build through the draft, see what happens in FA a few years down the road. This iteration of the Bucks has peaked.
Middleton is a good enough player you'll get something for him. Bledsoe maybe at a deadline deal next year.
Game over.
Giannis chokes on defense too. Why even put your hand on him?
Absolutely fukking bonehead play
What a memorable way to lose the game and probably the series
Fuck Giannis. Seriously. I never thought I'd say that.
If Giannis leaves after this series because he can't win a championship with the Bucks, he's the biggest coward in league history. He choked on both ends of the court.
That’s called over officiating... oh well. It only happens to the Bucks. Guess it shouldn’t be surprising. The NBA needs ratings... Miami/Boston and LA are all they have left.
It’s over. And honestly, it may be time to think about blowing up this team including Giannis. I’m so sick of this team wilting in key moments. And it’s guys like Bledsoe and Middleton and Giannis puking all over themselves. Yes that was a ticky tacky call but why the fukk is Giannis even in that position? You made a hero out of Jimmy Butler when he should have been the goat for throwing the ball away and missing the FT at the end. Only the Bucks can snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.
@Music City posted:That’s not a foul... omg...
After the call they gave Middleton anyone with a brain knew not to even touch the Heat player.
Right now, the narrative is that Giannis is a loser. You know what, unless he redeems himself in this series the narrative is right.
Give Middleton credit. Those were 3 of the highest pressure FTs you'll ever see and he was pure on all 3. Giannis would be more likely to air ball at least one FT than make all 3.
@Tschmack posted:It’s over. And honestly, it may be time to think about blowing up this team including Giannis. I’m so sick of this team wilting in key moments. And it’s guys like Bledsoe and Middleton and Giannis puking all over themselves. Yes that was a ticky tacky call but why the fukk is Giannis even in that position? You made a hero out of Jimmy Butler when he should have been the goat for throwing the ball away and missing the FT at the end. Only the Bucks can snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.
Matthews had him locked down. If he hits a fadeaway 20 footer off-balance from a standstill, so be it. After Middleton got that call on the 3, you knew that any contact was going to get a call.
That might be the worst last minute of playoff game for an MVP in history. A lot of guys miss shots, it happens to the best. But Giannis' mistakes were mental and inexcusable. 2 missed FTs and a really stupid play at the buzzer given the circumstances.
Mathews fouled him way before the shot, that could have been called
Giannis is a loser now? Good fucking grief dude.
If there’s a narrative, it’s that he’s an unfinished product. His game is under-developed. He has no go to move, and is a below average shooter. His decision making is up and down, because he doesn’t have anything other than his speed and power that makes him great.
He’s not Lebron. He’s not Michael, though he competes like him. His game doesn’t start with his jump shot like Curry or Harden. He can’t just bury you with midrange like Kawhi.
He’s Shaq, with a little more rounded game. He’s brute force, length, and speed. And the thing is that Giannis doesn’t have a Kobe. Shaq doesn’t win a fucking thing without Kobe, or Wade. Until that changes, or until Giannis becomes deadly at doing things other than going harder or faster, it doesn’t look like they’re going to go as far as we’d like them to go.
Giannis' box score looks good, but he deserves the blame again tonight (29-14-3).
Middleton has gone 28-6-5 and 23-6-8 in the two games, and to go 3/3 in that situation showed balls. Lopez has gone 13 for 18 from the floor in the series. Bledsoe went for 16 tonight. Those guys did their part.
Honestly I’m at a loss
It seems like it was all there for the taking back in early March. Best record in the league. Home court throughout then COVID stripped it all away and destroyed the momentum.
Mentally and physically this is not the same team. They are playing like a lottery team right now.
And of course it couldn’t happen at a worse time with the Giannis contract coming due. Talk about going from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows. After Miami sweeps or beats them in 5 this could be the last we see of this group again including Giannis
Bledsoe didn’t do his part. Not even close.
I don’t care if he scores 40. His job is to defend and distribute and not turn the ball over or make bad decisions when it matters. He was atrocious in the 4Q and Bud pulled him but not quick enough.
Someone said it best - guys like Middleton and Blesdoe and Giannis are at their best in garbage time but when you raise the stakes they can’t handle the pressure.
@Music City posted:Giannis is a loser now? Good fucking grief dude.
If there’s a narrative, it’s that he’s an unfinished product. His game is under-developed. He has no go to move, and is a below average shooter. His decision making is up and down, because he doesn’t have anything other than his speed and power that makes him great.
He’s not Lebron. He’s not Michael, though he competes like him. His game doesn’t start with his jump shot like Curry or Harden. He can’t just bury you with midrange like Kawhi.
He’s Shaq, with a little more rounded game. He’s brute force, length, and speed. And the thing is that Giannis doesn’t have a Kobe. Shaq doesn’t win a fucking thing without Kobe, or Wade. Until that changes, or until Giannis becomes deadly at doing things other than going harder or faster.
Shaq took a Magic team where the only other good player was Penny Hardaway to the Finals. He could also dominate in the half-court. Giannis becomes just another good player in the half-court. You could put Shaq on the block and get him the ball and he was going to score. Giannis is a more consistent regular season player than Shaq because Shaq didn't seem to give a shit during the regular season as he got older. You can't trust either one at the line and you neither Shaq nor Giannis was a good option outside of 5 feet. But Giannis really isn't very good with his back to the basket on the block. Shaq was top 5 in history.
I think the Heat close out the Bucks in 5 or 6 games and then the trade speculation begins. I will probably go back to barely watching the NBA when Giannis leaves. I'm 51 years old, so I don't remember the 1971 title, but the Bucks aren't going to have a better shot than the last two years anytime soon. If Durant comes back healthy next year, the Nets are the odds-on favorites in the East. Giannis will probably refuse to sign the extension and they'll be forced to consider trade offers, and we'll end up watching Middleton, Bledsoe, Wiggins, and Bledsoe fight for the 6th or 7th seed the next 3 years.
Someone has to get hot. Someone has to bust through, but Miami knows how to make you do things you don’t want to. Spoelstra is pummeling Budenholzer right now. Either someone gets hot or the Bucks are going to Cancun...
@Tschmack posted:Bledsoe didn’t do his part. Not even close.
I don’t care if he scores 40. His job is to defend and distribute and not turn the ball over or make bad decisions when it matters. He was atrocious in the 4Q and Bud pulled him but not quick enough.
Someone said it best - guys like Middleton and Blesdoe and Giannis are at their best in garbage time but when you raise the stakes they can’t handle the pressure.
Bledsoe kept them from being blown out in the 2nd quarter. He's paid about half of what a max player gets. He's not supposed to be a superstar. If you get that from Bledsoe each game you are fine.
Middleton didn't lose this game for him. Those FTs at the end were clutch and he's averaged 26-6-7 and he's 18 for 39 from the floor in the series. Paradoxically, the way that Bud has designed the offense, playing with Giannis in the half-court makes it harder for Middleton in iso because Giannis doesn't space the floor at all.
Lopez has been outstanding.
The bench other than Hill has been awful. DDV and Connaughton are 2-11 from the floor in the series. Marvin Williams is 3-11.
But most of the blame goes to Giannis and Bud. If Giannis doesn't go 4-12 from the line in Game 1, it's a completely different game. The fact you can't count on Giannis in the half court makes every 4th quarter possession painful to watch. Bud doesn't really help things in play design or in substitution patterns.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:Shaq took a Magic team where the only other good player was Penny Hardaway to the Finals. He could also dominate in the half-court. Giannis becomes just another good player in the half-court. You could put Shaq on the block and get him the ball and he was going to score. Giannis is a more consistent regular season player than Shaq because Shaq didn't seem to give a shit during the regular season as he got older. You can't trust either one at the line and you neither Shaq nor Giannis was a good option outside of 5 feet. But Giannis really isn't very good with his back to the basket on the block. Shaq was top 5 in history.
You forget that Shaq only accomplished the Finals on that team when MJ was rusty after playing baseball. The next year, the Bulls swept a 60 win Magic team in the ECF. The East was weak then, so there wasn’t anyone that was going to stop them.
As said after game 1, Spoelstra > Bud
As great as Giannis has been in the regular season, he is building an ugly playoff resume. Comes up short creating his own shot and clanking high pressure free throws.
Bud has lost my confidence. Good regular season coach and gets worked in the playoffs.
That said it doesn’t help that Donte, Connaughton, and Marvin Williams were absolute garbage.
In 2013-14 Masai Ujiri joins the Raptors and they win 48 games and won the division. Bounced first round. Next season 49 wins, division champs- bounced first round. Next year, 56 wins and a trip to the ECF, bounced by LeBron. Next year, 51 wins and division champs, bounced by Lebron second round. Next year 59 wins division champs, bounced by Lebron second round.
Then they trade for Kawhi and win it all.
Bucks shot 7/25 from 3 pt range.
Heat shot 17/45 from 3 pt range.
What happened to “let it Fly” ??
30 point 3pt differential. How were we even in this game ?
Ball Game.
Some reporters pushing the narrative Bud doesn't play Giannis enough minutes. It would help if Giannis could stay out of foul trouble.
If Giannis is ever to be one a great one, he’s going to have to find a way. The NBA- and in particular the way the game is played today- is against what Giannis is comfortable doing. The game is now a shooter’s league. The best players step back and hit jumpers and threes.
Giannis wants to dominate with brute force and overwhelming speed, and in today’s game that’s not enough. When the playoffs begin, the true difficulty of being great in the NBA is on display. Coaches- the good ones anyway- are going to take advantage of your weaknesses. It makes a player like James Harden- capable of 60 points any night and 40 in any string of games- play down to a level that resembles none of it. The playoffs- the intensity, pressure, emotion... all of it- puts your weaknesses on display. Bludgeons you with them.
So it takes time, even for the guys who as young players looked like they had it all figured out. MJ was 27 when he finally broke through and took down the Bad Boys. Ironically, Lebron was 27 when he broke through in Miami- remember what everyone said about him before that? Larry Bird won his first Championship and his first MVP at age 27. Take a guess how old Kawhi Leonard was last year when he lead Toronto to the ring.
Giannis has only been playing high level basketball 7 years- and he’s still trying to figure it all out. The experienced players in the NBA, who know fooling of officials as an art form, are winning the battles because Giannis refuses to alter his approach. Brute force, speed, attack.
He needs more time to know how to do it in other ways, subtle ways. To think the game and have the tools to counter their counter. You cannot accomplish that by simply wanting to. This level of greatness is hard- and it comes in tiny little increments, if at all. The greatest players ever would tell you that.
We should feel confident he’ll get there- no one works harder. Silly talk of blowing the team up... wtf are you guys talking about... this kid is the best thing to happen to this franchise in our lifetimes. A driven, freakishly athletic basketball junkie who wants to be here, and you guys want to trade him away? Good fucking grief... don’t you remember what this franchise produced for 30+ years before he arrived? 🤮
I’ll gladly and patiently wait for him to rise. I figure... he’s what, 25? If the paths of other greats are any indication, 2 more years sounds about right... 😜
@Music City posted:We should feel confident he’ll get there- no one works harder. Silly talk of blowing the team up... wtf are you guys talking about... this kid is the best thing to happen to this franchise in our lifetimes. A driven, freakishly athletic basketball junkie who wants to be here, and you guys want to trade him away? Good fucking grief... don’t you remember what this franchise produced for 30+ years before he arrived? 🤮
I’ll gladly and patiently wait for him to rise. I figure... he’s what, 25? If the paths of other greats are any indication, 2 more years sounds about right... 😜
Music - I agree 100% with everything you are saying. I'd rather watch Giannis work through the final stages of becoming a top 20 player all-time over the next 2-3 years and lead the Bucks to a title. Doing that in today's NBA would mean more than winning 2 or 3 titles on an arranged AAU team (like the Lakers, Clippers, the LeBron Heat, or the Durant Warriors).
The problem is that we might not get to see him in a Bucks uniform again if the Heat finish them off (which is highly likely at this point). As soon as the buzzer sounds, ESPN will drop a story that "people close to him" are saying he wants to win a title more than anything and may demand a trade and not sign the supermax.
If he immediately signs the supermax, great. I'll love watching him try to lead them to the final stage over the next 5 years, win or lose. But if he doesn't, the Bucks are in a tough spot. They could keep him next year, knowing that he probably wants out and risk losing him for basically nothing in the summer of 2021. Or, they could do what the Pelicans did with Anthony Davis and get some good, but not great, players for him. The Warriors, Heat, Raptors, Mavs, etc. would all give you offers. But you aren't getting anything back that gets you to a championship and you are left to integrate a bunch of decent players around an aging group of guys you signed to play around Giannis (Middleton is 29, Bledsoe is 31 in December, and Brook is 32). You'd turn into this year's Pacers. Good enough to get to the playoffs, but no threat to get beyond the first round.
Giannis could end all of this uncertainty immediately after this season ends (whether it's 2 more games or a few more weeks), but I'm guessing he won't. We don't know what his girlfriend wants in terms of wanting to live in a specific area. You can't get mad at her if she wants to live closer to her family. That ESPN pieced that dropped within 5 minutes of the buzzer of Game 6 in Toronto last year was a big hint (that he wanted out if the Bucks didn't make it to the Finals). Giannis was pissed about it, but he didn't deny it.
Again, I agree with you. If Giannis is coming back, let this team take it on the chin this year and come back stronger. But it's more complicated than that.