Bucks vs. tanking Raptors, April 5th - Giannis doubtbul

Timberwolves beat Toronto by 48 on Wednesday, the Bucks better do something similar.

Bucks up 27-21 after one.

Beasley with another terrible outing. 1 for 5 from the floor.

He's 6 for his last 30.

And Gallinari continues to suck.

Bucks now trail a team that has lost 15 games in a row 56-51 towards the end of the first half.

Dame looks like he has money on the Raptors tonight. Just some terrible turnovers. If he was trying to tank the Bucks, this is what it would look like.

Bucks trail 58-54 at the half after the half ends by a half-assing Beasley watching Grady Dick get by him for an offensive rebound and putback followed by Dame not even getting a shot off when getting the ball with 5 seconds left.

Raptors took the lead on a 10-0 run on the Bucks that was mostly because Dame Lillard looked like he had money on the Raptors. This is the sequence. It turned a consistent Bucks 6-10 lead all half into a Raptors lead.

I turned it off, couldn't watch.

There is real basketball on ESPN, a game in which the players care.

Tip off coming up.

This is not a good team folks, and I’m not talking about Toronto.

Lillard has to fucking go.   He sure seems like he’s simply going through the motions.  Or maybe he has money on the game, I don’t know.  But anyone that says he’s 100% committed is either lying or has never watched basketball.

As for Beasley, it sure looks like the clock has struck midnight and he’s going to turn back into a pumpkin.  He sucks ass right now.

Bucks down 10 midway through the 3Q lol.

Fuck this I’m watching Iowa and UConn.

Bucks now trail by 10. Dame's last two possessions are a turnover followed by a 25 foot three that hit the backboard.

Bucks getting booed going to a timeout at Fiserv. It sure looks like they have completely and totally quit.

Down 13 as Dame fails to hit iron on another shot.

Bucks are 7 for 26 from three.

Portis misses 3 layups in a row.

It’s good they rested Giannis, but this team should be able to handle Toronto without him.

If this holds up, this might be the worst three consecutive losses that I can ever remember the Bucks having.

This is disgraceful. Bunch of millionaires that can’t play hard and smart.

Horst needs to go. He is ultimately responsible for this mess.

Bucks get it back to 5 by the end of the third, mainly because Doc finally sat Beasley's ass on the bench and brought in Jackson Jr., who actually seems to want to try to play defense.

So, the Bucks get it close, Dame has another turnover to open the quarter. Toronto gets an and one in transition and the Bucks are now down 8. Just like that.

What a fukking joke. Absolutely pathetic. Just continued terrible defense and more Dame turnovers.

Bucks go on a run, take the lead, and then leave the guy that's been hot all night wide open for a 3.

Down 2 to a team that hasn't beaten anyone in 5 weeks. They hadn't been ahead in the second half on any game for about 6 games.

On the way to a loss. Dame just fouled out after missing a 10 footer.

The worst 3 game stretch I've ever seen from a Bucks team considering the talent they have and who they were playing.

The Bucks trail by 2 with 1:20 left, Jackson Jr. fouls for 2 FTs, and then Portis with a fucking idiot technical foul.

This is an undisciplined team that also doesn't seem to give a shit.

Can they fire Rivers before the playoffs start?

This sure feels like a team circling the drain.

Lillard with the least efficient 36 point game you will see.  4-12 from 3 with 7 turnovers and he fouled out.  

Fitting end. Beasley airballs a 3.

Fuck the Bucks. Stick a fork in them. They are done.

What the hell???  Bucks are losing to losing teams???  

Maybe send Dame home for the rest of the year so you don't risk getting him hurt and reducing his trade value

At this point, I’m not sure it matters what their seed is.  I don’t see them getting out of the first round playing like this.  And that assumes Giannis is 100% which clearly he is not.

It’s entirely possible Bucks ownership may pull the plug on this disaster and clean house.  That includes firing Horst and Doc for starters.  If I’m Giannis I’m seriously questioning my future in Milwaukee.  

And once and for all Damian Lillard can eat shit.  He’s one step above James Harden which isn’t saying much.  I wish they would send him home or bench his ass but that’s exactly what he wants.

The Wizards, Grizzlies, and Raptors were 64-166 on the year. Each of the three teams were missing their best players. You could argue they were all missing their top 2 players.

The Wizard played without Kuzma, Coulibaly, and Tyus Jones.

The Grizzlies were playing without Morant, Smart, Desmond Bane, and Zaire Williams.

The Raptors were without Barnes, Poeltl, and Boucher.

You fired Budenholzer after a series Giannis got hurt in. You fired Griffin when he was 30-13.

Rivers has completely lost this team and they are 14-15 with him as the head guy. How in the world do you keep him after this?

There is something really off with this team. The locker room must be a complete mess. Rivers basically benched Lopez for the entire 4th quarter.

The chemistry has been weird all season.  Doc’s a polarizing guy as it is and you think he’s bringing them together?

For as brilliant as Horst has been he’s been terrible recently.  The Griffin and Doc hires have been pathetic.  Beauchamp draft pick and Crowder trade.  Now Dame trade.  All poor decisions.

@Tschmack posted:

The chemistry has been weird all season.  Doc’s a polarizing guy as it is and you think he’s bringing them together?

For as brilliant as Horst has been he’s been terrible recently.  The Griffin and Doc hires have been pathetic.  Beauchamp draft pick and Crowder trade.  Now Dame trade.  All poor decisions.

Griffin was in over his head and when Doc came in he did stabilize the defense. But then I think they figured out that Doc is a guy who blames everyone but himself when things go wrong. But that's not the biggest underlying problem is.

The entire team has a vibe where they seem to hate playing with each other - and the only new guy is Dame so it's pretty obvious who ruined the chemistry.

@Tschmack posted:

The chemistry has been weird all season.  Doc’s a polarizing guy as it is and you think he’s bringing them together?

For as brilliant as Horst has been he’s been terrible recently.  The Griffin and Doc hires have been pathetic.  Beauchamp draft pick and Crowder trade.  Now Dame trade.  All poor decisions.

Horst status was all because of the Holiday trade, and that only worked because Kevin Durant stepped on the 3 point line. PJ Tucker was an important addition as well.

Other than that, most of his moves have not panned out. Mirotic? Ibaka? Griffin? Doc Rivers?

The Lillard trade looks to be another to add to the list. I was excited when it happened too, but it looks like one of those things were the pieces just don't fit and Lillard is a guy that is more about image than actually wanting to win.

In retrospect, firing Bud was the big mistake. At least firing him with no real plan for how to replace him.

It sure seems to me that there’s dysfunction and resentment with Damian Lillard on the team.  There’s really no other way to describe it.   This latest incident with the birthday party probably was the nail in the coffin.

He’s as good as gone after this season.

I was willing to let this go until hearing some idiotic things post game from Doc and Dame specifically.

I mean, I love how nonchalant they both are as the team is completely falling apart around them.  All Rivers does is shrug his shoulders and Dame sounds like a medicated, monotone robot.  

In other words, there’s those that give a shit and operate with a sense of urgency and then there’s these two dopes.  

Doc getting fired and Dame getting dealt can’t happen fast enough.  This team is toast come playoff time and I think everyone knows it.  

Is there another meaningless All Star contest or 3pt shooting contest they can participate in? Seems to be the only way we can get the best out of either of them.

If and when they flame out in the playoffs (and that could very well be in the first round), the real stories will come out.

I think it's mostly Dame. There were 3-4 things that happened right before this really bad stretch that were all warning signs.

1. During the previous homestand, Rivers subbed Dame out for a defense only possession in the last minute of one of the games. Watching it in real time, I was thinking it was about time he did that. The next game, Melanie Ricks (Bucks sideline reporter) did a whole sequence on how Dame felt he was "disrespected" by Doc doing that. Seriously, Dame? You are one of the worst defenders in the league and you are worried about respect in that situation? How about recognizing that bring in almost anyone to replace you for a defense only possession is the proper move? It's the equivalent of Giannis being upset if they subbed him out for a better FT shooter on an offensive possession (or using him to inbound the ball so he can't get fouled).

2. The Lakers double OT loss is when the problems really started (or at least when it appear to finally get to the team). That was the game where in the first OT with a chance to win, Lillard threw up a one-handed scoop shot that Anthony Davis blocked. The shot had zero chance and other guys were open - but Dame decided he needed to the THE GUY.

3. Right after that loss, the Bucks traveled to New Orleans to play the Pelicans. They lost by 7 and there is no shame in losing to a very good Pelicans team on the road. But it was another comment from the Bucks broadcasting crew about Dame that got my attention. He had gone out to eat with McCollum (they had been teammates for about 10 years with the Blazers so it makes sense) and Dame told the broadcasting crew that he had eaten 60 oysters the night before. It might be a small thing, but does that sound like a guy who is worried about doing whatever he can to win a game?

4. The nail in the coffin was missing games for "personal" reasons. It was widely reported that Dame was headed out of town to attend his son's 6th birthday party that weekend and missed the Hawks game and then didn't show back up until the Bucks were back in Milwaukee (likely staying in Portland for Easter morning as well) - missing the Wizards game (missing that game and the next one with a "groin" injury). How did he hurt his groin when he was fine in New Orleans and then didn't play after that?  Showing an interest in your kid is great, but how does it look when Giannis, Khris, and all the other players have to stay on the East Coast for Saturday and Monday games and Dame is kicking back in Portland? I'm sure they'd have liked to see their kids on Easter morning too.

5. Then last night Dame comes back, and as Tshmack says, puts up one of the worst 36 point games you'll ever see. There were two stretches last night where his careless turnovers and 3-point bricks completely turned the game around. And his fouls in the 4th quarter were the type you expect from a rookie. Just stupid plays where he fouls a guy on a rebound that's 5 inches bigger than him and has inside position. It was almost like he was trying to foul out on purpose.

Giannis isn't perfect by any means, but none of this can be sitting very well with him (or other guys like Portis, etc.) who play all out all the time. Dame appears to be a diva who isn't coachable and, when finally given a chance to be on a roster with a realistic shot at a title, appears to miss being the guy who could put up 60 a few times and average 32 for a shitty team with no pressure.

Also, in terms of coaching changes after this season. I think they have to happen. If this continues, there is no way you can bring Doc Rivers back. None. But....

The Buck owe Rivers 40 million bucks guaranteed until the end of 2026-27 season.

They owe Budenholzer another 8 million next year (and paid him 8 million to sit out this season).

They owe Griffin another 12 million over the next 3 years.

If they move on from Rivers, ownership will have paid 68 million dollars out to coaches that end up each coaching 43 games (Griffin), about 45 games (Rivers), or 0 games (Bud) in 2023-24 and beyond.

How can Horst keep his job after that?

Interesting stuff. I feel like that Laker game was definitely the tipping point. They're in Milwaukee and Anthony Davis had zero fouls all game (Until OT) while guarding Giannis, especially on the Alley-oop attempt.

Total fouls for the game, what 24 on the Bucks and 11 on the Lakers. Calling it right down the middle there, eh?

If that's in LA, I don't even bat an eyelash....but not in Milwaukee. Maybe they felt like the NBA is just not going to let them play, even in their own building.

I'm just glad they got one while I was an adult. I'll bet the NBA hated it too. Good... Fuck them.

I think that’s a good summary MP2.  But there are a couple of other really interesting data points.  

Right before AS break the team had a couple of brutal losses including a blowout loss at home against Miami and an inexcusable L at Memphis.  Look up Dame’s stats in those two games.   Horrific.  Then the AS break comes and it’s like Lillard was transformed.  Won the 3pt contest and was in top Dame form going nuts in that glorified scrimmage.  

The other gem was Dame making a point to take in a road game in Chicago to watch his buddy Demar DeRozan play.  Not sure if that was part of the deal before or after he appeared on Derozan’s podcast.

Meanwhile, all we keep hearing season long is how out of sorts they appear.  Gee, you mean practicing and playing inspired basketball together (especially Dame and Khris and Giannis) is important to get ready for the playoffs?   Who would have guessed.  

You add up all of this shit and does this sound and look like a guy that’s committed to the Bucks?

As for the Lakers game, yes, that was pure bullshit.   But the dysfunction started well before that.  I think the going home to Portland was a nuclear bomb going off in the locker room and then he or the team has the nerve to imply he was hurt?   How?  He was fine before going on his sabbatical.  More complete bullshit.

Fuck him.  

As for Rivers, you think Jimmy Haslem cares about paying coaches dead money or firing them?   He and David Tepper are the gold standard for impatience.  50M to either of them is chump change.