Cap Room: Save it or spray it?

Save. Several big contracts will be coming due in the next 2 seasons

I think they almost need to bring in a starter, not a big-time guy but a solid guy. If they cut Clifton the line looks pretty iffy if Wells signs elsewhere. I'm a big proponent of only replacing one o-line starter/year for continuity

My "wish" would be a pair like Langford and Wimbley. They're not stars but solid players who would be upgrades but not break the bank and bring Clifton back for whatever they can get out of him.

I think Wimbley will command a big contract.

...and I'd spend a little. GB doesn't need a superstar on the DL or at C, they just need a few guys that can play. I'd look for a top flight OLB in the draft.

When has Ted saved it?

For the right person.

Save it. Just in case we get docked for front loading contracts. Can't be too careful nowadays.

you gotta have a mix. the team that won the bowl was a combination of draft picks, free agents, street free agents and waiver wire pickups. can't decide to completely eliminate one avenue of building a team.

Who's deciding to eliminate anything? I'll answer for you....

TT isn't.

Save = No Free Agents
Spray = Sign some help

At least that's how I read it. Cut ties with Clifton and Driver. TT is a hard liner so go hard line on those two. Clifton is broken down and Driver can and should get some moderate dough...but not on the Pack who is deep at that position.

EDIT: removed 'explore and' from spray.

Save = money left over
Spray = spend the money

I'll ask again, when has Ted saved it?

let's make this into a who loves ted more thread...again. he needs help outside the draft. basically that was what this thread predicated on. some say save, extend and roll. fine. i say they need outside help. if they don't add, they most likely will be able to extend matthews for cheap because his numbers from last year will stay the same. but maybe some orgs will know when he has DL talent around him, he will maybe be arguably a defensive player of the year candidate again.

quote:

Originally posted by MNPackman:
Save. Several big contracts will be coming due in the next 2 seasons

As if you've got a freaking choice! Seven million? That's so little that by English law I'm not even allowed to write that number with it's number.

Have you seen how much even average FA's are making? It's unreal. The Packers should conserve, conserve and conserve and look for some FA's after the first round of cuts in training camp. Players will be more desperate then and cheaper.

As long as Marshall doesn't miss games, Bears got a steal. Since landing him, we've tied up some of our own players. Hopefully Forte soon. I suspect he will not break the bank, look at how many RB's have signed and for how much.

I'm sure as hell glad you guys didn't land Mario W., Deep!
Think of the front lines that could be, not only in Chicago, but Detroit as well. Wouldn't want to see that 4x each season.

Haha, I bet!

It's amazing how the NFC North has changed! Look at the teams, even Minn. might have a keeper QB in Ponder, but who knows? That's about all Minn has!

Rodgers is still the class, clearly. But I like how Chicago and Det have built their teams. Of course, I'm worried about our offensive line, however, Williams, across from Peppers, would have been a fun show.

No doubt about that, but you cannot afford everyone! About one FA a year at these rates!

I read they were inquiring about some guy from Miami. I'm even surprised at that really. I'm not expecting TT to make any signings. Build through the draft.

What the Packers do really well is target their own players and lock them up before they hit free agency. Wolf did this as well, but TT has sort of perfected that approach.

I love how people just sort of overlook that type of thing.

Some of these teams that throw a bunch of FA money around also seem to lose more of their own good players than a team like GB.

Take a look at Dallas. They brought in 6 free agents, but just lost Laurent Robinson and will likely lose Bradie James (among others).

Don't think that players don't pay attention to this. If you create an environment where it's all about bringing in "hired guns" then you run a greater risk of building a culture where some players don't want to stay and it becomes a constant revolving door. Minnesota and Washington have also had to deal with this.

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:

I love how people just sort of overlook that type of thing.

Some of these teams that throw a bunch of FA money around also seem to lose more of their own good players than a team like GB.

If they had closer to $17.5 million than $7 million, I'd say sign a center even if that means resigning Wells. It sounds like they want him back anyway.

And if not Wells, how about Chris Myers from Houston? He's one year younger and considered the top free agent at his position.

Currently the NFL's highest paid center is Nick Mangold with a total 2012 cap hit of nearly $5.8 million. Last year Wells made $2.75 million in base, but after bonuses his cap number was $3.35 million. Myers made the same in base but his cap number was $3.5 million.

The average cap hit among the five highest paid centers in 2012 is $4.4 million (Mangold, $5.79; Eugene Amano, $4.63; Ryan Kalil, $4.5; Chris Spencer, $3.75; Kyle Cook, $3.5).

Is it reasonable to say the Packers could sign either Myers or Wells for between $3.5- and $4.5 million per year, or would these guys want Mangold money? Would signing either be a good idea if it costs that much?

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
i say they need outside help. if they don't add, they most likely will be able to extend matthews for cheap because his numbers from last year will stay the same. but maybe some orgs will know when he has DL talent around him, he will maybe be arguably a defensive player of the year candidate again.

This is just dumb. Yes, Uncle Ted is going to write off Matthews as a marginal talent if the defense were to stay the same and Matthews has the same numbers. The guy he moved up to get. The guy who is constantly chipped or double teamed but still around the ball. I'm sure all of TT's football acumen would just fly out the window and that's on the hypothetical things stay the same. Truly a barrel of slowcoach.

With that statement you just turned the thread into "who can make the most asinine statement?".

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
let's make this into a who loves ted more thread...again.

If I start a "who loves Ted more" thread, will you answer the question? When has Ted banked up money rather that putting to personnel on the team? How about a new question, when has Ted not gotten help outside of the draft? IIRC, he's taken in a FA or two every year.

Now, he could stop applying all that money to guys on the roster, then you end up with guys like Mario Williams walking away (do you see Ted letting a guy like Mario walk away, or would that have been taken care of before hand?).

I don't doubt Ted will bring in a free agent, he may even spend a little to get one, but the bulk of his emphasis will be, and should be, on draft and develop and you cannot give me one reason why that shouldn't be the case.

The future is overlooked quite a bit when people start discussing free agency. GB has some significant contracts coming up with Rodgers, Jennings and Matthews. All of them will remain a Packer and all of them will cost a TON of money.

I like free agency too but paying huge dollars for a guy doesn't make sense. I mean, I'd love to have Mario Williams on the defense but his presence would destroy the future of the cap. When it comes down to it, there's not a defensive player in the league that I'd want over Matthews.

That said, lower tiered free agents such as Langford would be a nice addition if TT can get it done. I also wanted the OLB out of Baltimore (Johnson?) but he already signed elsewhere for a pretty fair contract.

My hope/guess is TT is going to grab a defensive lineman and a center in free agency. There's just too many holes to fill in the draft alone. He'll then turn to the draft to get another defensive lineman, safety and most importantly, an OLB.

With guaranteed portions of contracts, the Packers really have the possible $30M raise in the cap in 2014 to factor in. So for this armchair GM, priority is with Rodgers, Matthews, Jennings and Lang. Using "guaranteed" money from 2014 and beyond (as well as, some players that are going to eventually come off the books, like Woodson), those deals can get done sooner than later. But there is no sense in tying hands with bad deals now with some of the FA guys getting money. WR is way out of control. Megatron is awesome, and if a WR is worth a ton, it's him. But the deal he signed, and all the guys slotted behind him are ludicrous. Laurent Robinson? Even DeSean Jackson? Jennings is going to be expensive.

Packers have needs at Center, OLB, and DE (among others). I think they should be cautiously aggressive to fill those with 2nd tier FA players and rely on the draft to add stars to the lineup. Certainly not worth overpaying, but the holes are enough that finding a lot of impact guys in the draft will be a bit of a roll of the dice to whether they can help push the defense over the hill and back to it's 2010 form. So I'm hopeful we'll see some players at those key positions hang around enough for Green Bay to find it worth it to sign them. Let's hope we get another Woodson/Pickett off-season. Adding two guys with that level of impact that were passed over, would be the jackpot. I'd be happy with simply an upgrade at OLB over last season.

So I say, spend it.....but first and foremost, on our guys.

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
let's make this into a who loves ted more thread...again. he needs help outside the draft.

Where's your Green and Gold card!



Where's your Green and Gold card!

quote:

Packers have needs at Center, OLB, and LB (among others).

I don't see a need at MLB. I like Bishop a lot. Hawk isn't great but he can play. Smith impressed me last year. I think GB has enough there to get the job done.

Sorry....meant DE instead of LB. I'll update.

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
What the Packers do really well is target their own players and lock them up before they hit free agency. Wolf did this as well, but TT has sort of perfected that approach.

I love how people just sort of overlook that type of thing.

I don't think anyone is overlooking it but it's only applicable if your own guys are any good. As well as Thompson's done his record of drafting defensive linemen and pass rushers is rather spotty, at best.

quote:

As well as Thompson's done his record of drafting defensive linemen and pass rushers is rather spotty, at best.

Uh huh. Tell me which GM's record is excellent at drafting DL? You can't just make a guy out of thin air.

Look at the team who beat the Packers in the Playoffs: The Giants.

The Texans have put together a good enough set in the last couple of years they were able to let Mario Williams walk without much thought.

How about the Ravens, 49ers, Bengals and Cowboys. The Cardinals, Dolphins and Redskins are markedly better at it.

Hell, the Queens revolving triangle of stupidity has been much more successful putting together a pass rush (just not anyone who can actually cover a receiver).

Green Bay has gambling defensive backs who can get turnovers but get burned when having to cover too long.

When Thompson hasn't spent a first-rounder on one of those guys he hasn't had much success.

Were it a receiver it would be no concern, he's shown he can find those all over the place. Same with defensive backs who can make plays on the ball and specialists.

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:

quote:

As well as Thompson's done his record of drafting defensive linemen and pass rushers is rather spotty, at best.

Uh huh. Tell me which GM's record is excellent at drafting DL? You can't just make a guy out of thin air.

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:
Look at the team who beat the Packers in the Playoffs: The Giants.

The Texans have put together a good enough set in the last couple of years they were able to let Mario Williams walk without much thought.

How about the Ravens, 49ers, Bengals and Cowboys. The Cardinals, Dolphins and Redskins are markedly better at it.

Hell, the Queens revolving triangle of stupidity has been much more successful putting together a pass rush (just not anyone who can actually cover a receiver).

Pownd.

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:

Pownd.

When trying to "pwned" someone you should probably make sure it's spelled properly.

Cool you ain't

Now that's pwned

quote:

Look at the team who beat the Packers in the Playoffs: The Giants.

I did. They could play against each other 10 times and the Packers would win 8 or 9 of them.

I sure would've liked to see the Packer team minus an OC's sons death

quote:

Hell, the Queens revolving triangle of stupidity has been much more successful putting together a pass rush

Then go root for the "Queens" they paid for Jared Allen. They didn't draft anybody worth a $hit.

quote:

How about the Ravens, 49ers, Bengals and Cowboys. The Cardinals, Dolphins and Redskins are markedly better at it.

The Packers were better than all of them in 2010. What happened? Was it all Cullen Jenkins?

quote:

When Thompson hasn't spent a first-rounder on one of those guys he hasn't had much success.

Again my question stands, Which GM has had success?

Defensive End is one thing, but I have to agree with Boris that no team does an insane job drafting 34 DEs/NTs and 43 DTs/NTs. Even the Giants continuously sign veteran DTs and their one good DL draft pick recently (Linval Joseph) isn't that good. Some teams get lucky, Baltimore got lucky with Haloti Ngata and New England got lucky with Vince Wilfork. Those teams have also drafted early round players that haven't lived up to their slot...Ron Brace comes to mind for New England, HUGE bust. And their DLines look a lot better when they get lucky with that superstar...Calais Campbell was a boom/bust pick for Arizona and they got lucky. San Fran and Washington signed FAs to improve their DLines. The Dolphins burned 2 1st round picks on DL and their DL wasn't amazing, why are they switching to a 43 and letting Langford and Soliai walk if their so super talented. GB is just about where everyone else is in terms of how well they draft DL.

Kevin Colbert, Jerry Reese, Ozzie Newsome and Rick Smith to name a few.

The Vikings gave up two seconds for Allen but they've also complemented him with Ray Edwards, Brian Robison and Pondo Griffen even looks promising and Kevin Williams has always been a good interior rusher. It's the one area they've actually been successful at. They're decent guys, not stars, but they do the job.

So yeah, Jenkins did make a big difference because they had a complementary rusher to Matthews. We saw this year one guy can't do it all himself.

Thompson's shown a great flair for nabbing skill position guys but his strength has not been in the trenches. Rick Smith has not been so astute getting wide receivers, neither has Ozzie. That's why Ozzie went out and got Boldin and Evans. That's why TT should probably grab a solid guy where there are holes. They could really use two DEs, one draftee and one signing as well as another solid pass rusher at the OLB spot.

Heck, Ron Wolf didn't draft ANY of the '97 starting D-linemen.

peoened, pert due

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
peoened, pert due

Asking for it, aren't you?

Perhaps a timeout until...oh let's say February of 2013 would suffice?

You're not needed here....at all

Is the grisly reaper mowing?

Why, yes, @ 1:06:

quote:

The Dolphins burned 2 1st round picks on DL and their DL wasn't amazing, why are they switching to a 43 and letting Langford and Soliai walk if their so super talented.

Not that it matters, but I read they still want Langford back and I believe they resigned Soliai to a new contract. I don't think they can afford Langford though.

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:
Look at the team who beat the Packers in the Playoffs: The Giants.

The Texans have put together a good enough set in the last couple of years they were able to let Mario Williams walk without much thought.

How about the Ravens, 49ers, Bengals and Cowboys. The Cardinals, Dolphins and Redskins are markedly better at it.

Hell, the Queens revolving triangle of stupidity has been much more successful putting together a pass rush (just not anyone who can actually cover a receiver).

Green Bay has gambling defensive backs who can get turnovers but get burned when having to cover too long.

When Thompson hasn't spent a first-rounder on one of those guys he hasn't had much success.

Were it a receiver it would be no concern, he's shown he can find those all over the place. Same with defensive backs who can make plays on the ball and specialists.

So it would stand to reason that TT will invest high picks on defense. He's built the offense, defense will get attention. The last "TT doesn't have success with" was the Oline and that had to do with the stupid ZBS. I would say he's done pretty well now because he learns. I expect the same on the defensive side.

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
peoened, pert due

I think you should be worrying about your own pwnage from the stupid remark you made about the value of Matthews to TT.