Defense

I think he's learned that you don't let proven commodities escape to only rely on unproven guys like Walden and Neal. He had it break his way with Rodgers in a big way, but it has seriously blown up his face by letting Jenkins get away for a measly $5 million a year.

if Capers doesnt go to OAkland, is he definitely safe this offseason?

im not a draft guru but picking sherrod over brooks reed looked like the wrong call then and now.

Maybe so this year, but long term who knows.

quote:

Originally posted by WolfPack:
if Capers doesnt go to OAkland, is he definitely safe this offseason?

I'm pretty sure Dom's safe, but he had a bad season. Yes, it's tough to play defense without a pass rush, but that doesn't explain the constant miscommunication. That's on him and his staff.

Capers isn't in danger of losing his job. Wynn, CJ Wilson, Walden, Green, Zombo, Brad Jones, Peprah...the lack of talent on defense overcomes any schemes.

You could say that there is some coaching problems---how many times did we hear after games that players were blowing their assignments? However, I would put that more on the players who just did not or would not do what they were coached to do---some major housecleaning on defense is in order.

I think Peprah is gone...especially if Collins doesnt make it back.

D-line actually paid well vs the run. But they need a couple big pressure guys.

DBs may seem some changes...after reading Bad Bob's article on the "d", makes me think somebody or somebodies werent playing as well as expected. So we might see some housecleaning in this area.

Do we know if Nick Collins will ever play again? And if so, can he be as effective as he was?

quote:

Originally posted by NJWIS:
im not a draft guru but picking sherrod over brooks reed looked like the wrong call then and now.

It looked like Clifton was benched or had an injury today. If Sherrod makes a full recovery and ends up starting next year, it was the right move.

quote:

Originally posted by slowmo:
Capers isn't in danger of losing his job. Wynn, CJ Wilson, Walden, Green, Zombo, Brad Jones, Peprah...the lack of talent on defense overcomes any schemes.

Reading that list of names almost made me throw up. A couple of them are serviceable backup/rotation guys, but most of them suck.

With all the passing records going on this year, the game has fundamentally changed in my mind, and I'm not sure we have the personel to keep up with it. If you can't get a pass rush of any kind, your defense is going to do nothing in today's NFL. The offense can't keep bailing this team out every game, as we saw today.

Agree that Peprah needs to go. At one time I thought he might be a solid backup that could at least be reliable if you got in a pinch, but he proved otherwise the longer he played. At the end it didn't appear that he had any business lining up in an NFL secondary. Don't see him back next season, even in a backup capacity.

He's about as good as Mark Roman or Marquand Manuel. He doesn't even deserve to be at training camp.

quote:

Originally posted by NJWIS:
im not a draft guru but picking sherrod over brooks reed looked like the wrong call then and now.

Hard to say after just one season. As much as I would like our defense to improve, we all know that Aaron Rodgers is the franchise, and he must be protected. Without him, we go nowhere. I have a feeling Sherrod will be a really good offensive lineman, and with him, Sitton, Bulaga et all, we're going to have a top offensive line in the NFL.

Now is the draft to address the pass rush, and secondary. Charles Woodson won't be around forever.

It seems the policy of drafting/keeping "football players" ie the TE body type kind of blew up in our faces. We didn't have a serviceable backup safety to replace Collins and as valuable as those H-back types are for special teams, none of them play defense so there is no coaching up possible.

I don't blame TT for cullen Jenkins departure. It's been restated repeatedly that Jenkins never offered the Packers the proposal he ended up signing. Jenkins wanted out of GB, for his own reasons.

2 of the 3 offensive juggernauts have been eliminated; if NE falls next week, there'll be some re-thinking of the Offense is enough philosophy.

Just imagine if we had drafted JJ Watt.

I think Capers need to do something to convince TT and MM that he can turn this around. I don't get how you go from a top 5 defense in 2010 and become a bottom 5 defense in 2011. You lose Jenkins and then Collins, but that stills doesn't make it ok. I just fail to believe that losing Collins turned the secondary from great to awful. And I fail to believe that losing Jenkins turned the pass rush from very good to anemic. If that's the case, then you might as well bring back Bob Sanders b/c he had the same limitations when losing 1 or 2 guys.

At LB, they need to replace Hawk. I like him and always hoped he'd be that pro bowler we all expected but he's just not physical enough or fast enough. Maybe Francois or Smith can develop, but I just don't like what Hawk brings to the field. And obviously, you need to bring in a new ROLB. I thought Jones looked ok today, but only because the bar was set so low by Walden. Still wish they would have taken Brooks Reed last year, but no use crying about that now. They need a difference maker at ROLB in the worst way. I will be really upset if they dont spend a 1st or 2nd round pick or sign a significant free agent here.

No idea how to you fix the secondary. I thought Woodson, Shield and Williams were as good a trio of CB's as you'll see in the NFL. You obviously need to draft a safety and I think you need to sign a free agent too. Peprah has shown he's not an NFL safety. I always thought he was assignment sure but was lacking in athleticism, but this year he lacked in everything a safety needs: speed, smarts and tackling. Burnett will improve and so should House.

As for d-line, Pickett and Raji are the only players who have earned a place on the roster. I still have hope for Neal, but was very disappointed that Wilson, Wynn and Green have s**t the bed the way they have. I think you go into training camp with Raji, Pickett and Neal guaranteed spots, and bring in at least 1 mid level free agent and a high round draft pick here and let them compete. Hoping that Lawrence Guy can show something too.

The big problem in fixing the defense is that you can't sign pass rushers off the street and especially not for what TT wants to pay. That leaves the draft. And getting impact first year pass rushers requires high draft picks and even then it's not guaranteed. What they need is the 2012 version of JJ Watt and Brooks Reed. Guess I'll start crossing my fingers now.

quote:

We need some pass rush. The secondary can't cover for 7 seconds--no one's can.

Agree with this X4

More than once again tonight, it appears Woodson made coverage mistakes, such as that key third down pickup by Cruz where he covered another guy who was already covered.

That can't all be blamed on the absence of Collins.

quote:

Originally posted by grignon:
2 of the 3 offensive juggernauts have been eliminated; if NE falls next week, there'll be some re-thinking of the Offense is enough philosophy.

Agreed. I expect in the coming years will will see a huge transition in defenses to stopping only the passing game, given the massive move in that direction by offenses these last couple years. Pass rushing DE's will be at a real premium.

One thing that concerns me about the defense is that when Capers was hire, someone posted a stat on him. Supposedly, with each passing season with a team, his defense would become statistically worse.

quote:

Originally posted by who:
We need some pass rush. The secondary can't cover for 7 seconds--no one's can.

truth

if Hawk disappeared magically, I don't think the defense would suffer.

There is one very salient thing one of the talking heads pointed out this last weekend (don't remember who, there were so many). They were talking about this weekend's matchups of top 5 offenses vs. top 5 defenses and had some stats from previous top O vs. top D games. The teams with the top ranking D's won something like 13 out of 14. NE is the only one still alive with only a top O. Granted NYG did not have a top 5 D but they were playing like one coming into this game.

quote:

Originally posted by oldnavy:
One thing that concerns me about the defense is that when Capers was hire, someone posted a stat on him. Supposedly, with each passing season with a team, his defense would become statistically worse.

I posted that a couple times and was apparently wrong when they improved from 09 to 10. They can't be ranked any worse next year so the D can only get better in 2012.

quote:

Originally posted by YATittle:
More than once again tonight, it appears Woodson made coverage mistakes, such as that key third down pickup by Cruz where he covered another guy who was already covered.

That can't all be blamed on the absence of Collins.

That seemed to happen all year. Instead of just playing the defense that was guys were constantly guessing ior trying to cover for someone else. I thought Tramon had a terrible season - especially after he hurt his shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by El-Ka-Ranch Dressing:

quote:

Originally posted by who:
We need some pass rush. The secondary can't cover for 7 seconds--no one's can.

truth

if Hawk disappeared magically, I don't think the defense would suffer.

Already looking through the draft boards!

Plenty of good prospects for TT to evaluate. I doubt we take a corner high, as TT loves to draft guys late and develop them (Williams, Shields, undrafted come to think of it). My guess is he looks to some big d linemen who can lower Raji's snap count and get some more pass rush.

Soak it in Pack fans. Let it sting. But know that TT and his staff are literally paid to move on, and develop.

I have full confidence these guys will be back and better. We have much work that needs done.

I didn't care for the D at all this year. Could not figure out why losing two players for the season should have such an impact for a team that won the SB with umpteen on IR and Woodson and Shields out in the crucial second half.

Still, I think ESPN's Kevin Seifert had a comment on thgeir website that is worth pondering:

"The big fear surrounding the Packers this season was that a hot quarterback would knock them and their porous pass defense out of the playoffs. Things seemed to be headed in that direction after Giants quarterback Eli Manning threw for 274 yards in the first half, capped by a 37-yard pass to receiver Hakeem Nicks on a Hail Mary. But it's going to be tough to affix too much responsibility to the defense for this game. The Packers tightened significantly in the second half, and the Giants didn't have a single first down in the third quarter. Manning threw for 56 yards in the second half. That should have given the Packers' offense enough of an opportunity to even up the game if it was up to it. It wasn't. They couldn't get the ball downfield at all against the Giants defense, and their longest play of the game was a 29-yard run by James Starks in the third quarter."

Seifert

A pass rush changes EVERYTHING. A pass rush turned a sure TD into a fumble recovery tonight and turned a win into a loss.

And therre are two positions they need to add ELITE bodies to- RDE and ROLB. FA, rookie, whatever. You must bring in guys that are difference makers at those two positions.

This team is still a SB contender for years to come. Montana didn't win them all either.

It will be worth the while to keep an eye on those free agent lists as well. Thompson won't throw a 100 million dollar contract at anybody, but I think he'll make a couple moves that will be more significant than the Duke Preston's of the world.

I find it INCREDIBLY interesting that with all of the offensive records set across the league this year by both teams and individuals, that there is only 1 real high octane offense left in the final 4. And I hope BAL, SF, or NYG kicks the living spit out of it.

Raji (from great to nothing) and Pickett's (from below average to nil) pass rushing also fell off significantly this year, Hawk played a lot better last year and Woodson is a year older. All of those things combined with the loss of Collins and Jenkins certainly can cause the disaster we saw this year. The most important factor a defense can have is the ability to trust that the guy next to you is going to do his job correctly and trust your own instincts. Once QB pressures start to dry up and the blown assignments begin to pile up, guys start second guessing themselves and their teammates to the point where it all starts to snowball until you get the sort of train wreck we saw this year. Getting Collins back, retooling the DL rotation and a new OLB will quickly reestablish the sort of trust in one's teammates that is needed for a defense to avoid these blown assignments.

We have many holes to fill, albeit some sooner than others.
There's the more obvious needs like DE/DL. No idea where we are with Green, and Neal has a ways to go just to be available, much less how he plays. Pickett may have another year or so, but he ain't getting any younger.
I can't add anything that hasn't been said about the need for another stud OLB; maybe 2. Guys that played well last year haven't this year and no idea if Zombo is going to return to form. Walden and Jones are guys that may provide depth, but seem just as likely to not be here next season.
Safety is an obvious concern.
Ditto for CB. Woodson can still be a helluva player, but we need somebody for depth, if not groom for his replacement. I'm still not convinced that Shields will be the man; he can defend a pass because his speed makes up for poor technique, but he can't (or won't) tackle.
But it's the other guys like Peprah and Lee that just can't be consistently on the field as a defender. It's no accident that he was targeted by the Giants. If your front 7 is not generating pressure, forcing INT's, and getting some sacks, it's too easy to expose their weakness.

Obviously, drafting will be critical over the next couple of years, moreso than the past couple. FA loss/acquisition should be minimal impact. Finley's future may be the biggest, but nothing to do at this point other than waiting.

All things considered, this defense is still a lot better off than it was at the end of 2008. There is still talent to be found, they just need to boot a couple no-talent turds, replace them with a couple guys that can get pressure on the QB and maybe start grooming a new CB. This is only one good draft/offseason away from getting back into the top ten in points allowed. As long as Ted keeps his picks of "bargains" with injury problems to a minimum (haven't given up on Neal yet, but the team needs safer prospects this time), I think it will work out.

Whatever TT does from this point on, he has to know he needs to build a better D and not just because of what happened yesterday. After all the records that were put up this year by teams and individuals it looked like the NFL was on the brink of the "arena ball era". Look at who is still in the playoffs: 3 out of 4 have good to great defenses. It is no longer accepted that the Packers "will just have to outscore everyone".

We should now be drafting at around pick 30. There wont be many prime pass rush DE's available that low in round 1 or 2, most likely. Possibly an OLB with pass rush skills will be available. It's gonna be difficult for TT to find any prime help for our pass rush picking that far down. Wondering if TT might use a couple picks amd move up to grab an impact type guy?

I'm not sure what kind of OLBs will be available at the end of the first or second round, but I'm pretty confident Ted will be able to find someone a lot better than Jones, Zombo or Walden.

Maybe the biggest disappointment is I really do think there's more talent on that defense than they showed this year. Raji, Matthews, T. Williams, Bishop, Woodson. That's a fine core and then you add in promising young guys like D.J. Smith, Morgan Burnett, and Sam Shields.

Too many of those guys I listed just didn't play as well this year as they did last year while guys like Shields and Burnett probably could have stood to have had an off-season program to help their development. An off-season program would have particularly helped Burnett who had to take on way more than he was capable of with the loss of Collins.

There is a core, they just need to complement that core with an infusion of talent at DE and OLB (easier said than done). Admittedly, if Nick Collins can't come back, that's a huge permanent loss as that adds a position that needs to be addressed.