Did MM Just Make the Leap...

Agreed on your premise. MM has steadily improved and there's no reason why that won't continue. I still don't like how he's handled clock management here and there, but he's improved in other areas, so who's to say he won't improve that too?

I also like how he has his own style. 3 TE's, 3 FB's, inverted wishbone, some innovative stuff that no one else was doing.

looks at his playsheet to much, needs to get that fixed.

Don't forget about the Mission statement. Fail.

Needs to focus more on division championships.

Yes... he's a great coach. The ironic thing about this season is that he received no consideration for Coach of the Year, just like AR didn't make the Pro Bowl and Matthews lost out in DPOY. And you could make a case that this was the greatest coaching job of all time with all of the injuries on our roster, & that AR had one of the best SB QB performances of all time.

I made a case earlier this year that MM needed to relinquish the play calling duties and he just proved me wrong. Too many times I felt that he played not to lose and was either too conservative or had no creativity in attacking a defense. Yesterday he let Rodgers wing the ball at will and even tried to end the game with a TD on the last drive instead of running the ball into the middle of the line 3 times before trying a FG.

And fitting guys for rings the night before the SB is such a great motivational move... it takes plenty of nads to pull that one off. I hope MM never wants to leave GB for greener pastures like Holmy did.

I don't care to use terms like great in assessing a coach or player's track record so early in their career.

I do think that he has become one of the better coaches in the league today. Whether or not he is given credit for that will depend on 2 things...continued deep playoff runs by the team and more importantly how the media protrays him.

I think greatness has to be reserved until there is a considerable body of work to evaluate.

This season will launch him into consideration for current elite status and potential greatness.

That being said there is no GM/HC combo in the league right now that I would take ahead of TT and MM even if they threw in the #1 pick in the draft and an established QB.

True, but I distinctly remember Holmy being called a great coach when he won a title after five years with the team. One of the many reasons Holmy earned that moniker was because of the development of a young QB among many other things. MM just did the exact same thing. I just find that comparison interesting and I do think MM deserves at this point to be mentioned with Holmy.

Still not totally set on his being the primary playcaller, but am finding less and less to argue about as MM continues to grow. And one of the great things was him saying after the game talking about next year that the team still has room to improve, and that he wants the assistant coaches to be more vocal, etc.

One thing I'll say is that each year he's gotten better and better and better. Maybe it was all the injuries this year or whatever, but he changed his mindset to be a stronger leader and to keep all the "pollution" out of his players' minds, which I think kept it out of his own mind. It was like he finally said, "This is the way we're doing it and I'm not letting anything stand in the way of how I think it should be done."

I think with MM has grown into a d*** good head coach. One or two more like last night and I can call him a great coach!

the answer is yes.

Hmmm... MM has been to the NFCC game twice with two different QBs and defensive coordinators and won a SB in five years. Calls plays and has tudored the all-time passing leader. That's pretty damn good.

But he did pass on AR when he was drafted. Probably best to leave the personnel decisions to TT and just coach.

McCarthy wasn't the one who made the ultimate decision on not drafting AR....and based on the cluster**** that has become that organization even before that draft, there is no need to even try and lay that decision at MM's feet.

I didn't think MM had it in him. I was way wrong. Yes he's made the leap.

No, but maybe yours and my standards for elite may be different.

Good to very good, absolutely.

He's not in the Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Shula great class. Could be, but not yet.

quote:

One of the many reasons Holmy earned that moniker was because of the development of a young QB among many other things.

I can't disagee with that, but I would say there was a bigger factor. Holmy was a direct descendant of Bill Walsh and everyone was annointing his disciples.

Holmy was a great coach after 5 years because of the herd of plugs he followed. That he had a double chin made him more than a little attractive as well with the locals.

He had a rather nice 'Sconsin beer belly as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Pack4FR:
I hope MM never wants to leave GB for greener pastures like Holmy did.

Holmy left because he wanted to be both GM & HC. Having one guy do both jobs is out of vogue, so I don't see MM leaving for that reason.

i believe the credit should go to the GM much more than the coach. you win with good players and without the depth they drafted and developed they probably would have failed.

how far can a coach really get without the likes of rodgers, matthews, woodson, a solid offensive line, and a great secondary. they have a hand in developing that talent but most coaches really don't get to work with what they have.

they didn't win this game with scheme as much as individual players making plays. if he had jay cutler as his qb he might be on his way out the door.

MM was masterful this year. Period.

Playcalling has been amazing. Without 6 drops, the Packers put up at least 41 points. And the offense barely missed a beat while losing their top RB, their top TE, and a starting OL.

Dealing with the injuries and plugging guys in and getting them ready to go. Incredible.

The motivational aspects he led following the NE you could sense a change in him. He never publicly talked about much, and he really kicked it up a notch, and it worked. Hell, everything worked. The ring fitting, the game plan, the looseness of the team.

He's developed AR beyond where anyone probably thought he could be after hearing reports of 2006/2007 training camps. He's developed Matt Flynn such that he looked legit against the 14-2 Patriots. He's a offensive and QB developing guru.

The guy took over a train wreck from Sherman, is .600, and has gone to 2 NFCC and won 1 Super Bowl. He's "elite", he's not a one year wonder.

Agreed. I don't think there's any reasonable debate to be had about MM's performance this year. I'm just curious if we'll start seeing him referred to as a 'great' coach like Holmy was. You hear that term used for Sean Payton, who has almost the exact same resume now and who was held as the gold standard of that coaching class. He's certainly not the moron the many (who have been surprisingly silent in this thread - not) claimed him to be, but the 'levels' that exist with coaches and their skills are really intangible in many respects.

quote:

Originally posted by johnnie gray:
the answer is yes.

MCarthy had the look of a champion before and after every must-win game to end the season, effectively 6 playoff games. Just in his press conferences alone the last quarter of the season, you really got the impression he knew they could go all the way, and that he finally had the right combination of players and momentum at the exact right time. He knew it even then.

He was not going to be denied and wasn't. That's greatness.

His team is in almost every game. They were one play away from winning any game all year, and the second half of last year too. He is 5-2 in the playoffs, with both losses coming in games his team battled to overtime, coming back from 21 points behind in one of them. His team overcomes injuries, the TOG firestorm, or whatever. He is a great coach.

I think it's alot to make the leap from good to great based on one Super Bowl win, but that doesn't discount the job he did this year. IMO a great coach is one who takes a team like this one and gets them back and wins a second, whether it be back to back or not. It's all relative of course, but the challenge of keeping a team together, keeping egos intact, weathering the storm of lost free agents, assistant coaches, retired players such as may be the case with Driver- all that to me is what is in front of MM in the claim that he would be great as opposed to good.

As great as this season has been, it will be very interesting, notwithstanding the CBA, to see how both TT and MM deal with success.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Catron:

quote:

Originally posted by Pack4FR:
I hope MM never wants to leave GB for greener pastures like Holmy did.

Holmy left because he wanted to be both GM & HC. Having one guy do both jobs is out of vogue, so I don't see MM leaving for that reason.

From the MM press conference:

(The last Packers coach to win a Super Bowl left a couple of years later. Do you see yourself being in this job long-term? Do you see this as your last job?)
I would hope this is my last job. I’m a builder and we have built something special. This program was built the right way, has quality people in Aaron Rodgers and all the way through that are going to lead this football team for a long time. So I would definitely hope this is my last job.

MM and Payton have had almost identical runs. 3 playoff berths. 2 NFCC games. 1 Super Bowl. 1 Super Bowl win. Both lost WC round games in high scoring shootouts.

I'd say the most remarkable thing is we really haven't seen them blownout in over 2 years. His best move as a coach so far I think is firing Sanders and bringing in Capers. Just think back to how bad the defense was 2 years ago. Amazing.

quote:

Originally posted by JJSD:
True, but I distinctly remember Holmy being called a great coach when he won a title after five years with the team. One of the many reasons Holmy earned that moniker was because of the development of a young QB among many other things. MM just did the exact same thing. I just find that comparison interesting and I do think MM deserves at this point to be mentioned with Holmy.

I don't know where MM really stands but he just won a Super Bowl, no question he is in the discussion.
Other Head Coaches have won a SuperBowl too and I just wouldn't call them great in any sense of the word ...

Holmgren was greatly involved with a few other SuperBowl titles with the 49ers, MM I don't believe sniffed anything until now.

I'm just so happy the way this team found a euphoria of sticking together, no matter what obstacle got in the way and MM seemed to be the soothsayer leading them ... MM may never get to the big game again but for 1 season against a lot of historical odds, he brought Vince home again to the true Packer Nation.

We can all draw strength from that, in any walk of life ... it just might of been a pure moment in time and more of a message rather than a fact that more Super Bowls are ahead for MM.

Thanks for the ride football gods, it was transcending for this Packer fan.

Great job by MM this year.

How he didn't get one vote for COY is amazing.

MM and Dan Compers with TT providing the players.....force to be reckoned with for as long as they stay together.

Everyone uses the word "great" way too, too much anymore. Alexander was Great, Lombardi, Halas, Shula, Starr, Rice, Payton, etc.

I think we can move McCarthy into the elite class of HCs. I, for one, refused to put him there up until they won the last regular game vs the Bears. After that game, he was able to coach-up his team.

But he has a long ways to go before we put him in the same category as Lombardi. Yet, I would say he'll surpass Holmy soon enough.

I want to apologize again for bashing MM after the Dolphin game. I didn't think the Packers had the moxie to win anything.

Just an amazing effort but the coaching staff.

Packers never trailed by more than 7 and lost 6 games by 20 points. The Steelers, Falcons, and Pats all lost to teams by more than 20 points.

After losing Finley MM rewrote our offense. He did a super job. I can not wait to see this offense next year.

I'd say he did. I've doubted of his ability to do so, but he did. Apparently TT knows how to pick coaches, in addition to QBs, etc. With HCs getting younger and younger, they come with less experience and have to learn on the job. Hats off to MM, cause he really started from scratch, he didn't just extend the system of he previous HC. Made plenty of mistakes but that's to be expected. Unlike a lot of HCs, he seems to have learned from them and improved.

I was never sold on McCarthy from the beginning, and by the middle of the 2009 season, I had given up on him entirely. After the Tampa game that year, I felt that he was on the verge of losing the team, if he hadn't already. Just watching his press conferences it seemed he was a man with absolutely no clue and - perhaps most importantly - absolutely no confidence. I didn't think there was any way back for the man.

As this season progressed, though, I started to come around. I think he's grown a lot as a playcaller, and while I think he still has some serious weaknesses as a coach, it seems to me that he's improving his strengths to the point where they compensate - maybe even more than compensate - for those weaknesses. I think that over the last couple of months the man, has indeed, "made the leap" as you say.

I think he's turned the corner and arrived. I won't call him a "great" coach yet, but I'll certainly call him a very good coach, and I won't argue with anyone who does want to call him great. I'm just a little slower than some to confer the classification of "elite" on a man. I expect that by the middle of next season, I will have no problem joining the "He-e-e-e's GRE-E-E-E-A-A-A-T!!!! crowd.

Before I call him great, 2 things:

1) Who made the call to go get Dom Capers.

2) Can he get there without Capers running the defense. Even if it is a Capers disciple running the defense, it would be neat to see if MM could do it again because in the NFL EVERY season is its own thing.


Not that these 2 items matter, I just think they'd be in a formula that helped get him this 1 and would help get him another. Thats all. IMO, he'll need 2 in some fashion to be called great.

BTW, IMO, MM is a "great" QB guru. He has done it with several QB's.

MM was magnificent down the stretch, but if you all remember after the losses to the skins and fish everyone was calling for his head. OH MY, how we flip-flop.

quote:

Originally posted by pablopackerfan:
Even if it wasn't MM's idea to hire Dom, do you think he was against it?

Would you ever know that? So my same question still applies ... and once again, none of this matters. I know that.

I dare MM to do it all over again, thats all.

quote:

Originally posted by trump:
Before I call him great, 2 things:

1) Who made the call to go get Dom Capers.

2) Can he get there without Capers running the defense. Even if it is a Capers disciple running the defense, it would be neat to see if MM could do it again because in the NFL EVERY season is its own thing.


Not that these 2 items matter, I just think they'd be in a formula that helped get him this 1 and would help get him another. Thats all. IMO, he'll need 2 in some fashion to be called great.

BTW, IMO, MM is a "great" QB guru. He has done it with several QB's.

Is this your measurement method for all coaches to be "great" or just McCarthy?

This should be how Belichek is judged too. He hasn't won crap since Fat Man left the offense.

I seem to remember that MM specifically wanted a 3-4 DC after firing Sanders. I figured Mike Nolan was going to be the guy, and I think MM offered him the job, but he turned it down for the Denver job IIRC. I also seem to remember him offering the job to Gregg Williams, which obviously contradicts his desire for hiring a 3-4 DC.

I don't really care how it came to pass, all I know is that right now we have the best DC in the NFL. Oh yeah, and the best QB, and an ELITE Super Bowl winning head coach also. And the best GM in the league, for good measure.

. . . and the best ownership.

He did a great job this year, but his overall body of work is too small for him to be considered great. I'd need to see another SB win before I'd consider putting him in that category.