Do short passes = running plays?

FreeSafetyI wonder what the poor people are doing?

Serious question.

If you've ever watched MM's TV show you'd know that he believes that the short passes he calls "replace runs". He's said it many times. He feels they are equal to a running play with possible a better athlete with more space to run. You get a quick, easy 5-7 yards and it is just as good as a run.

So when people accuse MM of not running the ball enough I am sure he is going to say that he called several short, high percentage passes that "replace runs". So his playcalling was actually much more balanced than it appears.

I think he has a point to a degree, but I also think he uses that as an excuse because he doesn't like to call running plays.

On the other hand, real running plays tend to punish the DLine a little more and they help set up play action passes. They also could cause an opposing team to switch to more run stopping personal, therefor giving you better matchups for your passing game.

I've reluctantly agreed with MM's logic, especially after losing Grant, but I feel there is little excuse for not giving Jackson more traditional carries today.

Do short, quick passes really "replace runs"?

10/10/104:34 PM

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HenryYou rang?

No, they can offset runs but neither were used effectively today.

10/10/104:37 PM

slowmoMember

Maybe they do. They did in the "classic" west coast offense.

However, as shown today, ARod is going to bypass the short throw on 3rd down, and instead chose to force it downfield 15+ yards. On at least 3 occasions today, on 3rd and short, he went away from a wide open short receiver and forced it downfield to a receiver who either dropped it or the pass missed.

10/10/104:37 PM

packerboiI lick rainbows

I said it in another thread.

I'll say it here.

It's almost like MM is afraid of success in running the ball. I realize B-Jax is no Ryan Grant. But this DL we faced BEGGED for us to run the ball way more. Any RB takes time to get into a rhythm. Any one.

Yet it seemed MM just held a death grip on continuinung to pass the ball despite being down to your last TE and having WR's who just couldn't hang on to the ball.

Mind boggling to watch.

10/10/104:38 PM

lambeausouthMember

I don't think so. Any pass play, no matter how short, takes more time to develop. I have no problem with short, high percentage pass plays, and would like to see more of them. But there are times when a run is needed, and no pass play replaces it. McCarthy needs to find more balance with this offense, especially later in the game when the defense needs a break.

10/10/104:38 PM

Pistol GBMember

No. You're right.

No.

10/10/104:38 PM

"We"-Ka-BongYou ungrateful biscuit eating son of a bitch

those short passes certainly open up the deeper routes, which the skins covered very well

10/10/104:39 PM

GoallineLarge Antenna

Holmgren did a good job call short passes to replace the run, but I didn't see MM attempting many short passes today, and he sure doesn't call screen passes.

10/10/104:39 PM

BrainDedMember

quote:
Originally posted by packerboi:
.

What he said.

10/10/104:41 PM

CJSMember

IMO, no, because when you actually need to run for 2 yards on 3rd down, a replace run isn't going to work. It also won't work in the red zone, where we were terrible today. You also aren't wearing down the DL and lastly, replace runs are riskier.

10/10/104:41 PM

CJSMember

quote:
Originally posted by slowmo:
However, as shown today, ARod is going to bypass the short throw on 3rd down, and instead chose to force it downfield 15+ yards. On at least 3 occasions today, on 3rd and short, he went away from a wide open short receiver and forced it downfield to a receiver who either dropped it or the pass missed.

This trend has me worried. I've been seeing this more often this year from Rodgers. Now that I think about it, wasn't there a pre-season article talking about how Rodgers wanted to take more chances downfield this season?

10/10/104:42 PM

FreeSafetyI wonder what the poor people are doing?

Also, remember there were a few of those run/pass option plays today where AR chooses to throw the quick pass to the WR when a running play was called.

I remember one to DD and one to Nelson for sure.

10/10/104:44 PM

GBP1Member

No. A pass is a pass and a run is a run. Different mentality. Running short yards and getting tuff yards means your team is hard-nosed and confident to get the yards when they need them. Getting the short run yards is key to getting the short passes completed and long passes too.

10/10/104:49 PM

HenryYou rang?

quote:
Originally posted by GBP1:
No. A pass is a pass and a run is a run. Different mentality. Running short yards and getting tuff yards means your team is hard-nosed and confident to get the yards when they need them. Getting the short run yards is key to getting the short passes completed and long passes too.

This is stupid.

10/10/104:54 PM

GBP1Member

Stupid is as stupid does, sir.

10/10/105:33 PM

pduckMember

Harry Sydney said on the radio a week or two ago that the difference between a run and a pass is huge for the tackles. On a pass play, the defensive line can just tee off on our OL making our tackles react to them. On a run, our tackles can be the aggressors thus being proactive. Then the DL has to react to us.

10/10/105:38 PM

TdogProspective Member

I'm gonna call it the RTRO offense from now on. Which not very reassuringly sounds lik RUHROH ala Scooby Doo.

Refuse To Run Offense. It's gotten beyond ridiculous.

Also, you take the 3 points in the 2nd quarter with 4th and goal every time, especially on the road. Stupid beyond belief.

10/10/105:47 PM

H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter

quote:
Originally posted by pduck:
Harry Sydney said on the radio a week or two ago that the difference between a run and a pass is huge for the tackles. On a pass play, the defensive line can just tee off on our OL making our tackles react to them. On a run, our tackles can be the aggressors thus being proactive. Then the DL has to react to us.

Clifton and Tauscher are no longer able to be the aggressor, IMO. Bulaga looks the part and I think it is time for him to take the left side and Lang to the right.

10/10/105:59 PM

fightphoe93Member

quote:
Originally posted by Goalline:
Holmgren did a good job call short passes to replace the run, but I didn't see MM attempting many short passes today, and he sure doesn't call screen passes.

Bingo. That's what has concerned me. This team needs to focus on throwing short passes to guys on the run so they can break tackles to get the extra yards. I just don't see enough short passes that try to accomplish this.

I will say, on the very last screen pass thrown to Brandon Jackson, Jackson did an unbelievably poor job on it as he ran right into the guy who had been blocked to the ground and still managed to get himself tackled despite the tackler already being ON THE GROUND. As good a day as Jackson had, it's that kind of a play that gets people thinking that Jackson just isn't good enough to be out there.

10/10/106:00 PM

Pack-ManMember

quote:
Originally posted by Hungry5:
quote:
Originally posted by pduck:
Harry Sydney said on the radio a week or two ago that the difference between a run and a pass is huge for the tackles. On a pass play, the defensive line can just tee off on our OL making our tackles react to them. On a run, our tackles can be the aggressors thus being proactive. Then the DL has to react to us.

Clifton and Tauscher are no longer able to be the aggressor, IMO. Bulaga looks the part and I think it is time for him to take the left side and Lang to the right.

It really couldn't hurt at this point. Maybe keep Tauscher if he gets back, but I can't see how Bulaga wouldn't be at least as competent as Clifton is at this stage. If that really is the case, it's just foolish to keep the rookie from getting valuable experience.

10/10/106:03 PM

PackyMember

To answer the question, yes, it's the west coast offense.

10/10/106:03 PM

The GBP RulesMember

quote:
I will say, on the very last screen pass thrown to Brandon Jackson, Jackson did an unbelievably poor job on it as he ran right into the guy who had been blocked to the ground and still managed to get himself tackled despite the tackler already being ON THE GROUND. As good a day as Jackson had, it's that kind of a play that gets people thinking that Jackson just isn't good enough to be out there.

reminded me of his screen in the NFCC game. in that game it cost them a td. he ran right into the defender.

10/10/106:09 PM

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