Don't blame Capers, blame Ted.

I wasn't particularly impressed by Capers first season, but at least then you could argue that it was a new scheme. Morgan Burnett is a decent player, but so far that contract they gave him appears to have been a mistake. I'm seeing more lapses from him than I am big plays. 

Considering how bad they were in '08 with a completely different system, I was. It was a massive step forward. I was very satisfied with '09 and certainly with '10, the last 3 seasons, not so much.... As for Burnett, he's a decent player, but he's never going to be a playmaker unless he is paired with another safety of equal or greater talent.

My biggest concern with Capers is that his defenses have followed the same pattern everywhere he's been....they are in the top 10 for the first 1-3 years but then have a significant drop off never to regain their top 10 status. 

is Bob McGinn from minn or chi ? he is so friggen anti-packer its kind of sickening

I'm assuming this is regarding Bobby's article following the game that no one in GB is rising to the occasion following AR's injury.

The 46 GB is forced to start each week may very well be playing as well as they possibly can. And that level of play isn't quite good enough to win football games. No Shields or Barclay yesterday. Didn't expect to see Perry. Think we were without Jolly for the second half.

We're not watching the Packers right now. We're watching a heavily watered down substitute.

Incredibly, the seasons still not over. Sunday is a must win game. Packers best route (likely their only route) to the post season is winning the division.

I don't know how Ted could be responsible for injuries...you can only keep 53 players..

Yesterday again pointed out the importance of Sam Shields...he needs to be signed.

You are not going to win many games with Nate Palmer at one end and Marshall Newhouse at one tackle.

Again another total team loss---the defense was not responsible for  Pierre Pope Paul's touchdown, McCarthy's fake punt or Tolzien's interceptions. 

Honestly though--is Capers coming back next year? No. Not just his age, but really look at the pass coverage this past season---scheme to your players---Like Ted, he's not responsible for the poor tackling, but that bizarre soft man/zone allowing that underneath stuff....you're kidding me.

I am typically very conservative with big changes--but Dom's not coming back...if they made a change right now, it couldn't hurt.

We're not watching the Packers right now. We're watching a heavily watered down substitute.

This. Bitch, bellyache, & moan all you want about Capers, MM, & TT, but this current product on the field is barely NFL worthy.

What I cannot fathom is how the middle of the field is constantly open.  Is it the design of the defense, players making mental mistakes, or are players just completely getting beaten?  This isn't a new phenomenon either.  It seems like the Giants were able to convert practically every 3rd and long with ease.

Slow linebackers, injured players and only 1 safety on the roster worth a ****.  

I also think Capers is gone next year.  Just curious if the change will be a promotion from within or a guy with a new vision.

Hawk, Jones, Jennings, Burnett.

my best guess why the middle is open for business. 3 guys are safe, reliable, fairly available. Jennings looks lost with a full blown case of shot confidence. Burnett looks like a guy trying to do 6 things at once.

Watching Beason drop into coverage and make a crazy athletic pick wasn't easy. Haven't seen a play like that out of our middle LB's in a long time. 

I felt GB needed to address TE and S in the offseason. Bostick looks like a keeper. I can't imagine any other pick than a safety in round 1 unless there's a player with a grade that Ted can't pass up. Can't play defense against anyone with 1 1/2 safeties. 

Hyde didn't have the best day yesterday either, wonder if that tempers the talk about moving him to safety. 

I'm on the fence myself, if he could play safety with the occasional rushing the passer, I like it.  I may like him more as a nickel guy (with the same occasional pass rushing). 

There is plenty of blame to go around, and TT deserves some for his lack of success in drafting high quality defenders. Matthews: great, Raji: (usually) very good, Hayward: promising, Burnett: decent-to-solid and a bunch of rotational guys and maybes at this point. They have pretty solid depth but the front-line talent is thin and when injuries limit the rotational guys there isn't really anyone other than Matthews that consistently can generate big plays. 

That Beason pickup NYG made is one of those things that's hard to ignore.  They sent CAR a 5th for him?  That is exactly the kind of deal TT usually bags - as seldomly as that happens.  I wonder if he was at all interested.  I am starting to agree about TT needing to find more impact players on D.  He has been great at filling in the depth but some of those guys need to step up at some point to be better than a good backup.

It's a frustrating time for this team. Things aren't going the way they should and people are looking for someone to blame. We won a SB with Thompson, McCarthy and Capers, so I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt with this recent tumble. They have faced a tremendous amount of obstacles since August and I think they have all done well. We hauled in a great draft class with the leading rusher in the NFL, a stifling blindside protector, a really good returner and CB, and really talented DL who is just scratching the surface of his potential. When healthy, we fielded a strong defense that was in the top 10 of the league before we lost key players to injury. And we had an offense that was dominating before losing 2 starting WRs, 1 starting TE, and the franchise QB. The fact that we had a 2nd year QB in his first start throw for 300+ yards without 3 starters on O (Cobb, Finley, Barlcay) should be a testament to how good of a coach we have here. 

It's tough right now, but in a couple weeks we will get Aaron Rodgers back, Matthews cast will come off completely, Hayward will be back, Cobb will be back, Barclay will be back, etc. We're poised for a strong run to finish the season. It will get better. 

Can I have some of what you're smoking? I like Jones, and he's flashed a couple of times, but the hyperbole about this year's draft class is not only ungodly premature but kind of ridiculous.

I think the last 2+ seasons has provided a lot of benefit of doubt for the defense. Its been consistantly bad. Chad Clifton, Charles Woodson and Cullen Jenkins helped win the SB that year too. When their performance began to slip...........

The defense was made a point of emphasis in the draft and by the coaches in the off season.

Really because I don't see what hyperbole I used to describe this class. Bahktiari hasn't allowed a sack or even a QB hit for the last 6 weeks. Lacy has 700 yards (top 10 in the league overall and #1 among rookies) @ 4 ypc and 5 TDs (tied for 9 overall in the league). Beyond that he has been rock solid in pass pro only giving up 2 hurries for the season (both against Baltimore) and no sacks or hits. Datone has been the 2nd best DL for this team behind Daniels...he has racked up 4 sacks, 2 QB hits, and 9 QB hurries, all better than Raji, while playing half as many snaps as Raji and 2/3 as many snaps as Daniels. Hyde is 6th in the NFL in punt return average with a TD and has been solid in run defense. 

So tell me again where I exaggerated? I'm sorry, Lacy isn't the top rusher in the league, that you got me on. Other than a rough start for the rookie, Bahk has been rock solid the last 6 weeks. Hyde has been a really good punt returner. And while Datone hasn't proven anything, I do think he is scratching the surface of what he's capable of (because players are supposed to get better after their rookie year). 

If anything, the last three weeks has given the higher ups a glimpse of what it is going to take to make this a complete team. Apparently, the defense is not championship caliber and their weaknesses have been covered up by a great offense. Ted has his work cut out for him in the offseason.

I agree with this, but I would add the caveat that it's not just on TT. Coaching matters.

For a perfect example, just look at what's going on with our rivals across the border. For years under Lovie Smith and his offensive staff, they struggled so much on offense. This persisted despite multiple front office moves to get offensive weapons like Cutler, Marshall, and Forte as well as drafting o-linemen and other skill positions.

Now, they have actually have a coach who knows what he's doing offensively. And with a very similar cast of characters, they've become a very good offensive team. In fact, they've been able to overcome injuries at a skill position (QB) that crippled them in past years.

Dom Capers has proven over his career that he can out-scheme a guy like Lovie Smith. But fewer and fewer teams are taking that old school approach to offense and the result are much more imaginative schemes on offfense that frankly Capers has struggled to adjust to. Replacing Capers with a sharp up-and-coming defensive mind (much like the Bears did on offense with Trestman) and there's enough talend on this defense to be more effective than they are.

The Bears biggest problem was their OLine. Not only did they do a good job upgrading it, but they added a good receiving threat in Martellus Bennet. Alshon Jeffrey made a big jump also which helps as he is very talented. I give credit to Trestman and his staff because they have done a good job, but most of the credit goes to the front office for getting what they needed. They drafted a really good Guard in Long and shored up LT by signing Bushwood. I never understood why Angelo almost refused to get them OL help. 

Say you fire Capers and bring in an "up and comer" like Steve Wilks from Carolina. What is he going to do different with the talent he has? How is he going to cover up the glaring weaknesses at ILB and Safety. Darren Perry is supposed to be a really good position coach and he can't seem to get through his guys. Is Thompson going to suddenly shift philosophy and bring in a free agent? Every coordinator in GB will face the same thing. They have to bring in better talent. 

They drafted two tackles in the first round under Angelo who never panned out. You could attribute that to talent evaluation, bad luck, or bad coaching. When that happens in Green Bay, it's always because of injuries rather than talent evaluation or coaching.

So sure, give the front office credit for drafting Long. But somehow I get the feeling if Lovie Smith and Mike Tice were still running things in Chicago, teams would still get a ton of pressure on the Bears. The single best move Chicago made is getting an offensively minded coach. Granted, they had two weeks prior to the Packer game, but their offensive gameplan with a back-up QB was far better than anything they had ever done against GB in the Smith era.

You could be right. Chicago has a different look and feel about them, Trestman has that offense on the right path. I tend to think Angelo was just terrible at finding offensive players in the draft. I don't know if that is on him, his scouts, or the coaching staff, but they were bad at it. 

Set aside the fact they're still in the middle of their rookie season....

Bakhtiari has done admirably for a 4th-round rookie, but when the reason you didn't give up a sack is only because the guy across from you sucked even more, yeah, stifling is over-the-top. Hyde is slow and that gets exposed in coverage quite often. I like his makeup and what he's done as a returner but he's not some great cover corner-in-waiting. I also liked the few flashes we've seen from Jones, though he's also had issues staying on the field.

It's way too early on those guys and claiming a rotationl DE and a corner who has trouble in coverage are somehow defensive stalwarts is rather googly-eyed, no? I expect Jones to progress, but he's not in the neighborhood yet.

Heck, Hayward is doing his best Marques Anderson right now, though I do think he'll be a solid zone corner.

I'm thinking back to 2010 when the Capers defense was at its' finest and was the strength of the team.  That year, you could say that the D had 7 playmakers on it. 

On the D-Line, you had Raji and Jenkins.  Raji I believe led NFL NTs in sacks for 2010 and overall was the rock of a line that had guys getting hurt around him for stretches.  Jenkins missed 1/3 of the season, but when he played was one of the top inside pass rushers of the NFL at that time.

At LB you had Matthews playing some outstanding football, and you had Bishop emerge mid-year as a very solid ILB who was a good blitzer, explosive tackler, and big play maker.

The secondary may have had the most impact level players with 3.  Woodson was still Woodson, just coming off a defensive league MVP year in 2009 he still was at the top of his game all the way up through the 1st half of the Super Bowl.  Tramon Williams had a career year and particularly in the playoffs showed how athletic and good he could be.  Nick Collins was one of the top 4 or 5 safeties in the game at the time. 

Here it is 2013, Collins, Jenkins, Bishop, and Woodson are just memories.  Matthews still has the same talent he did in 2010, but injuries have hurt him.  Raji for whatever reason shows glimpses of the 2010 version but overall has declined.  Tramon Williams has declined ever since the shoulder injury to start 2011. 

There's still some time for the 2013 defense to turn things around but it feels like the number of playmakers on it is limited at this point compared to 2010.  They need a guy like Nick Perry to get healthy and combine with Neal as a bookend to Matthews and badly need Matthews to keep recovering from those injuries.  At safety, I don't know if there's any hope but Burnett needs to step up his level of play and just start being a little smarter.  At least he's got the talent to be a potential play maker whereas the other safeties don't really look like they even have that potential.

Raji at times shows glimpses of his 2010 self, but way too often looks extremely ordinary for a guy with his physical gifts.  He's still got time to play for that big contract, I hope he shows he deserves it. 

So in the last 6 weeks he has faced Jason Pierre-Paul, Connor Barwin/Trent Cole, Julius Peppers, Jared Allen, Jabal Sheard/Kiki Mingo, and Terrell Suggs. And didn't give up a single sack. That's a whole lot of suck he faced. Am I missing something?

I didn't say Hyde was a great cover corner at all, I believe I said he's been a really good returner and good in run support. 

I didn't claim any of them were defensive stalwarts. I said it it was a great looking draft class, didn't say any of them were elite or stalwarts or anything like that. They're producing for this team right now and any production out of a rookie class is great, especially when they're at impact positions like RB (something this team was badly lacking) and punt returner (another huge hole unless we want to expose Cobb to injury). 

The problem is that the thread is about the defense, which this draft hasn't done much of anything to help the talent at the starting positions , at least thus far. I like Lacy, but he and Bakhtiari only affect the defense by helping sustain offensive drives so they can rest, which they've struggled with lately, and Hyde by giving the offense better field position, which he hasn't had much opportunity to do because they're not getting stops and the offense is floundering.

The Bears are 31st in the league with 154 pressures given up this year. They're actually on pace to surpass last year's abysmal mark. They've had the unbelievable fortune that only 9 of those turned into sacks.

I think a lot of that is on improvements to the scheme and Cutler - and I won't deny obvious improvements since Trestman showed up - but to pretend that they've turned some corner on the O-line by throwing $36M at Jermon Bushrod is laughable.

The other side of their spending is that they've continued to overlook an aging defense that has gone from their sole strength to a very serious liability. And with the money they've shelled out, they're set to lose about 3 impact starters next year.

"We won a SB with Thompson, McCarthy and Capers,"

True, but I think the argument here is that we could have won more than one so far if we had a better D coordinator.  

- Maybe 2009 as the team was really coming together, but then they gave up 51 points to the Cards

- Maybe 2011, team was dominating, then they gave up 37 to the Giants at home.

- 2012 didn't have the same feel as 2011, but we were legit contenders until we gave up 45 to San Fran.

What further evidence is needed? 

Send it to 1265.

"Datone has been the 2nd best DL for this team behind Daniels...he has racked up 4 sacks, 2 QB hits, and 9 QB hurries, all better than Raji, while playing half as many snaps as Raji and 2/3 as many snaps as Daniels."

Context matters.. At least 2 of those sacks came when he was being used as a spy and got the QB as he left the pocket maybe a yard behind the LOS.  Can you point to a play where he looked explosive and beat a blocker for a sack?   I can't.  Maybe he has a knack for finding the ball, and that's a good thing, but I don't see flashes of dominance from him like I do Daniels or Raji.  

Hopefully it comes with time. 

Not sure any of those teams were of Super Bowl caliber, but I agree each should've gone farther in the playoffs. And it's hard not to blame Capers and the defense for the early exits.

Wasn't the 2011 team 15-1?

Realizing the defense was a sieve and the Giant debacle was fast on the heels of the OC's son dying.

A grungy, crappy end to what was looking to be a great season.

"Not sure any of those teams were of Super Bowl caliber"

I think any team with #12 under center is capable of getting to the big game.  Hold the opponent to under 30 and you have a decent shot. 

Well he has 4 sacks and I don't remember him ever getting a free run at a QB so he would have had to have beat a blocker at some point. I didn't say he was dominant or that he was even good, I merely pointed out that based on the stats he has been our 2nd best DL. 

And my point wasn't to let Capers or Thompson off the hook, but rather give them the benefit of the doubt. It's not easy to win a SB, it's unrealistic to expect one every year, and Capers defense only gave up an average of 19 points in the playoffs in 2010. If he gets sole blame for 2009, 2011, and 2012 then he needs to get credit for 2010. Dick Lebeau and Bill Belichick have fielded bad defenses before, doesn't mean they're washed up or the game has passed them by...heck Belichick hasn't won a SB in a decade! His defense let Eli Manning, who was in the midst of his worst season as a pro and had thrown a career high 20 INTs that season, work over his defense...and then he let them do it again in 2011 even though he faced mostly the same team from 2009! He's still a good coach though. 

" If he gets sole blame for 2009, 2011, and 2012 then he needs to get credit for 2010."

I agree... The way the Defense performed during the playoff run that season was outstanding and they deserve half the credit at least. 

Look at the points allowed for the Pats in the playoff losses.. Not in the same class.

2012 Loss to Ravens in AFC Champ - 28 points
2011 Loss to Gmen in SB - 21 points

You have to go back to 2009 to see them surrender more than 30 (4 turnovers in that game) and then 2006 after that.   That's all I am asking for.. Give #12 a chance. 

Pats History - http://www.pro-football-refere...ams/nwe/playoffs.htm
Packers History - http://www.pro-football-refere...ams/gnb/playoffs.htm